PopularFX
Home Help Search Login Register
Welcome,Guest. Please login or register.
OverUnity Research > Benches > PhysicsProf (Moderator: PhysicsProf) > Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds
2024-11-27, 08:39:24
News: A feature is available which provides a place all members can chat, either publicly or privately.
There is also a "Shout" feature on each page. Only available to members.

Pages: 1 [2] 3
Author Topic: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds  (Read 24404 times)
Topic Options img
img  Smudge
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #25 on: 2016-01-18, 16:59:28 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1940
Quote from: TinMan on 2016-01-18, 04:19:15
Gravity and magnetic fields have no speed, they propagate from the source instantly.  Nature shows us this in the way of black holes, where both gravity and magnetic fields can exit a black hole, but light can not.
I have never measured gravity waves, but I have measured the speed of magnetic waves and I can assure you they do travel at the speed of light.  The measurements were done with a HP time domain spectrometer.

Smudge
   
img  TinMan
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #26 on: 2016-01-18, 22:23:01 »

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
Quote from: Smudge on 2016-01-18, 16:59:28
I have never measured gravity waves, but I have measured the speed of magnetic waves and I can assure you they do travel at the speed of light.  The measurements were done with a HP time domain spectrometer.

Smudge

Were you measuring the actual speed of the magnetic field,or more so the speed at which it took to create that field?. Also,if you were measuring the speed at which magnetic !waves! travel,then that is not a magnetic field alone,but also an electrical field,as a magnetic field that changes with time also has an electrical field,and electrical fields do travel at the speed of light.

Both the gravity and magnetic field do not require continual work to be done to exist,where as light can only exist while work is being done. The reason for this is that both the gravity and magnetic !field! have no mass,where as light dose. We know light has mass,as it cannot escape the gravitational pull of a black hole,and gravity only has an effect on something that has mass.


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #27 on: 2016-01-19, 10:51:45 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3017
TinMan writes:
Quote
electrical fields do travel at the speed of light.

Agreed! and that's the crucial point for the 2-plate experiment I've proposed.
Smudge agrees also, although we may differ on details of HOW the electric field interacts with objects.
So again - as experimentalists - can we comment on what the outcome of the proposed wxperiment will be?  do we expect the wheel to start turning, with NO external torque or force acting, violating conservation of angular momentum?

Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2016-01-14, 21:23:37
  I'll go ahead and post my thought experiment + some variations.
The experiment is planned along the following lines.  Instead of the sun, we have sphere A (may later choose another shape like plates) which is charged to +Q, thus have electric field E-A all around it.  At a certain time T0, the charge is quickly drained from A.

At that same time T0, a second sphere B 1 foot (1 nanosecond for light) is quickly charged up, to -Q.  It feels the field E-A which is still present as it charges up, so it is pulled towards A, being of opposite charge. 

However, the field forming from B, namely E-B, reaches sphere A when that sphere has been depleted of its charge (we'll assume sufficient time for charge on A to be zero; but even if just somewhat depleted of charge, the experiment still works).  Hence, B is pulled towards A, but A is NOT pulled towards B.

The result is an imbalanced force, in the direction towards A.  Now if both A and B are fixed on a boat which is free to move, it will move - picking up a momentum which was zero before.  It appears that momentum is not conserved.

Alternatively, A and B could be mounted on the edge of a large wheel which is free to spin - and due to the force on B, the wheel starts spinning.  In which case, angular momentum is evidently not conserved.  (This is probably the easier experiment to do in a lab setting.)

The key is in the timing and the finite time for electric fields to propagate - at the speed of light.... the decreasing charge on A is "found" by the "emerging" field from B, so there is an imbalanced force even if the charge on A is not zero.

Say there is just a 5% difference in force, but the pulses to A and B are in the megahertz range -- then a small imbalanced force each cycle will add up to a larger (presumably measurable) force over time.

Do you all agree - the wheel will start to spin due to (imbalanced) force on B?
   
img  TinMan
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #28 on: 2016-01-19, 11:48:03 »

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2016-01-18, 12:50:40
Just because gravity and B fields can exit a black hole - does not mean these propagate from the source instantly.  Photons are affected by gravity, light is bent by a gravitational field for example, not so magnetic fields.  Interesting questions though.

Not sure that it will change anything in regards to your experiment,but magnetic fields can indeed have an effect on light,and bend/rotate it if you will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhU-nNiAgtI

In regards to your experiment,are you looking at the possibility of getting sphere B to pull toward the electromagnetic field created by sphere A,and not sphere A it self? If in regards to opposite charges attracting,then when sphere A is charged,would it not be attracted to sphere B that is yet to be charged?,as a positive or negative charge will both be attracted to something that has a neutral charge/no charge. As long as there is a difference in charge amount-even if both objects have a positive or negative charge,then an attraction will be evident between the two objects.


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
img  Smudge
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #29 on: 2016-01-19, 12:13:50 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1940
Quote from: TinMan on 2016-01-18, 22:23:01
Were you measuring the actual speed of the magnetic field,or more so the speed at which it took to create that field?. Also,if you were measuring the speed at which magnetic !waves! travel,then that is not a magnetic field alone,but also an electrical field,as a magnetic field that changes with time also has an electrical field,and electrical fields do travel at the speed of light.

I used the fast step from the TDR to create a magnetic field by feeding it to a single turn loop.  Then used another loop some distance away to receive the fast step field and measured the time delay.  I agree that there is an electric field associated with that fast rise time but that is a narrow impulse, not a step.  My receiving loop of course gave a voltage output from rate of change of magnetic field, so it "saw" that narrow impulse.  You could argue that this agrees with your view that it is the electric field that propagates at light velocity, not the magnetic field.  But if that fast rise-time magnetic field propagated instantly I should see the electric field from that non-delayed rise time at my distant point with no time delay, and I did not.  The only conclusion you can reach is that I detected the rise-time of the delayed magnetic pulse, that what we perceive as magnetic and electric fields propagate together, both at the speed of light.  And that means that they are not separate entities, that there is only one "thing" propagating and our division into magnetic and electric effects is due to the methods we use to measure the effect.

There is a wrongly held view that in far field EM radiation the magnetic and electric effects appear because of that "changing magnetic field producing an electric field", that the two field are tied together by that statement of fact.  Not so!!  The two fields are in phase, the electric maxima do not coincide with maximum rate of change of the magnetic field.  The electric field maxima occur when the rate of change of magnetic field is zero.  So both electric and magnetic effects are traveling together, and if we wish to quantise the transmission into photons then the photon carries both effects.  We don't have electric photons alongside magnetic photons, we have just photons carryng both effects.       

Quote
Both the gravity and magnetic field do not require continual work to be done to exist,where as light can only exist while work is being done. The reason for this is that both the gravity and magnetic !field! have no mass,where as light dose. We know light has mass,as it cannot escape the gravitational pull of a black hole,and gravity only has an effect on something that has mass.
Well light is EM propagation so gravity has an effect on those EM photons that produce both electric and magnetic effects.  So this beggars the question, can electric, magnetic and gravity effects be explained by some sort of single virtual-particle that travels at some characteristic speed?  I believe it can.

Smudge
   
img  Smudge
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #30 on: 2016-01-19, 12:32:03 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1940
Quote from: TinMan on 2016-01-19, 11:48:03
Not sure that it will change anything in regards to your experiment,but magnetic fields can indeed have an effect on light,and bend/rotate it if you will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhU-nNiAgtI

In regards to your experiment,are you looking at the possibility of getting sphere B to pull toward the electromagnetic field created by sphere A,and not sphere A it self? If in regards to opposite charges attracting,then when sphere A is charged,would it not be attracted to sphere B that is yet to be charged?,as a positive or negative charge will both be attracted to something that has a neutral charge/no charge. As long as there is a difference in charge amount-even if both objects have a positive or negative charge,then an attraction will be evident between the two objects.

The force of attraction between a charged sphere and an uncharged sphere comes about because the E field from the charged sphere creates an electric dipole at the neutral sphere.  There is a wrongly held view that the charged sphere induces an equal but opposite charge on the neutral sphere (you get the same wrong view in magnetics in relation to induced poles).  That is utter hogwash.  Charge cannot suddenly appear on an isolated sphere.  What can and does happen is charge separation, positive charge on one side and negative charge on the other side, and that's an electric dipole.  The force law is therefore different.  So PP's scheme will work as the charge to charge force is much greater than the charge to dipole force.

Smudge
   
img  TinMan
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #31 on: 2016-01-19, 12:35:28 »

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
Quote from: Smudge on 2016-01-19, 12:13:50
I used the fast step from the TDR to create a magnetic field by feeding it to a single turn loop.  Then used another loop some distance away to receive the fast step field and measured the time delay.  I agree that there is an electric field associated with that fast rise time but that is a narrow impulse, not a step.  My receiving loop of course gave a voltage output from rate of change of magnetic field, so it "saw" that narrow impulse.  You could argue that this agrees with your view that it is the electric field that propagates at light velocity, not the magnetic field.  But if that fast rise-time magnetic field propagated instantly I should see the electric field from that non-delayed rise time at my distant point with no time delay, and I did not.  The only conclusion you can reach is that I detected the rise-time of the delayed magnetic pulse, that what we perceive as magnetic and electric fields propagate together, both at the speed of light.  And that means that they are not separate entities, that there is only one "thing" propagating and our division into magnetic and electric effects is due to the methods we use to measure the effect.

There is a wrongly held view that in far field EM radiation the magnetic and electric effects appear because of that "changing magnetic field producing an electric field", that the two field are tied together by that statement of fact.  Not so!!  The two fields are in phase, the electric maxima do not coincide with maximum rate of change of the magnetic field.  The electric field maxima occur when the rate of change of magnetic field is zero.  So both electric and magnetic effects are traveling together, and if we wish to quantise the transmission into photons then the photon carries both effects.  We don't have electric photons alongside magnetic photons, we have just photons carryng both effects.       


Smudge

Quote
Well light is EM propagation so gravity has an effect on those EM photons that produce both electric and magnetic effects.  So this beggars the question, can electric, magnetic and gravity effects be explained by some sort of
Quote
single virtual-particle that travels at some characteristic speed
?  I believe it can.

Ah Ha.

Smudge
Is there a thread that is based around what you have just mentioned above?,so as we do not side track this thread.
If not,then one needs to be started O0  O0


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
img  TinMan
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #32 on: 2016-01-19, 12:45:04 »

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
Quote from: Smudge on 2016-01-19, 12:32:03
The force of attraction between a charged sphere and an uncharged sphere comes about because the E field from the charged sphere creates an electric dipole at the neutral sphere.  There is a wrongly held view that the charged sphere induces an equal but opposite charge on the neutral sphere (you get the same wrong view in magnetics in relation to induced poles).  That is utter hogwash.  Charge cannot suddenly appear on an isolated sphere.  What can and does happen is charge separation, positive charge on one side and negative charge on the other side, and that's an electric dipole.  The force law is therefore different.  So PP's scheme will work as the charge to charge force is much greater than the charge to dipole force.

Smudge

Are you sure that is right Smudge?.
I was just thinking about the good old!!rub the balloon on your hair !trick,and attract a piece of paper that has an opposite charge. Dose the balloon not have one charge over it's whole surface? ,as the piece of paper is attracted to any point of that balloon that is now charged.

The electric dipole only needs two indifferent charge amounts to exist,and those charges do not have to be 1x positive,and 1x negative charge. Or do you see/consider the lower value to be the !negative!charge of the dipole ?.


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
img  Smudge
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #33 on: 2016-01-19, 17:13:37 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1940
Quote from: TinMan on 2016-01-19, 12:45:04
Are you sure that is right Smudge?.
I was just thinking about the good old!!rub the balloon on your hair !trick,and attract a piece of paper that has an opposite charge. Dose the balloon not have one charge over it's whole surface? ,as the piece of paper is attracted to any point of that balloon that is now charged.

The electric dipole only needs two indifferent charge amounts to exist,and those charges do not have to be 1x positive,and 1x negative charge. Or do you see/consider the lower value to be the !negative!charge of the dipole ?.

When you rub the balloon on your hair charge gets transferred from your hair to the balloon (or vice versa).  This is known as the tribo-electric effect and it comes from contact then separation of the two surfaces.  The amount of charge transferred depends upon how far the different materials are in the tribo-electric series.  Without that contact charge cannot transfer, so I stand by my statements.  An isolated sphere cannot gain or lose charge, but it can have positive charge (a lack of electrons) on one side and a negative charge (surfeit of electrons) on the other side.  That electron movement from one side to the other occurs when the sphere is in an electric field.  It is then an electric dipole.

I learnt all this tribo-electric stuff because I had to deal with raindrop impact on missiles.  Aircraft get charged from impact with atmospheric particles to the point where the voltage reached causes corona discharge at sharp points.  This can play havoc with the comms equipment if the discharge occurs on antenna, so they have deliberate "wick dischargers" that ensure the discharge occurs where it doesn't cause problems.

Smudge
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #34 on: 2016-01-21, 16:21:38 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3017
Quote from: Smudge on 2016-01-19, 12:32:03
The force of attraction between a charged sphere and an uncharged sphere comes about because the E field from the charged sphere creates an electric dipole at the neutral sphere.  There is a wrongly held view that the charged sphere induces an equal but opposite charge on the neutral sphere (you get the same wrong view in magnetics in relation to induced poles).  That is utter hogwash.  Charge cannot suddenly appear on an isolated sphere. What can and does happen is charge separation, positive charge on one side and negative charge on the other side, and that's an electric dipole.  The force law is therefore different.  So PP's scheme will work as the charge to charge force is much greater than the charge to dipole force.

Smudge

I totally agree with Smudge - and thanks for saving me time with your adept explanation.

Now, I agree also that the "same" v-photons carry both electric and B fields; but gravity fields are different in strength (MUCH weaker in far field) and also in what they interact with (mass, not charge) - so I think the G-field carriers (called gravitons) must be different from the E/B-field carriers (virtual photons).
   
img  Smudge
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #35 on: 2016-01-22, 11:58:44 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1940
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2016-01-21, 16:21:38
Now, I agree also that the "same" v-photons carry both electric and B fields; but gravity fields are different in strength (MUCH weaker in far field) and also in what they interact with (mass, not charge) - so I think the G-field carriers (called gravitons) must be different from the E/B-field carriers (virtual photons).
If you accept that electrically neutral mass is actually made from charged particles (like electrons and positrons) but in equal numbers, then there is no reason why so called gravity should not be just another arrangement of electrical v-photons or v-particles.  If you consider the shielding theory for gravity, where incoming v-particles from space apply an inward force onto matter, but a nearby mass acts as a shield to those incoming particles, then there is the question of what is a graviton?  It is the incoming particles from space that do the work, that apply the force, not in this case the non-existent outgoing particles from that nearby mass.  I don't subscribe to that shielding theory, but I do believe that v-particles emanating from neutral matter are slightly different to those coming from outer space, and that is what causes gravity.  It is not a shielding effect as such, but it is a change in some arrival characteristic plotted against solid angle.

I like to think of spin vectors as carrying the electrical signal, so that v-particles emanating from a positron are all spin-up while those emanating from an electron are all spin-down.  Spin-up means spin vector parallel to velocity vector and spin-down means anti-parallel.  V-particles emanating from neutral matter exhibit equal density of spin-up and spin-down, but they all have this longitudinal characteristic, there is no transverse component of spin.  V-particles coming from outer space being electrically neutral also exhibit equal density of spin-up and spin-down, but unlike those arriving from the other mass they do have on average a small transverse component.  It is this change of characteristic in arrivals from different directions that creates a force imbalance as seen by a mass near another mass.  And we call that force gravity.  Any particular v-particle is electrical in nature because it carries an electrical signal in its spin vector, but we can have electrically neutral space when considered as an average effect of many v-particles.

Smudge
   
img  Smudge
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #36 on: 2016-01-25, 15:36:36 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1940
Here is another possibility for getting electro-magnetic thrust, this time from the little known scalar magnetic potential of the earth.  That scalar potential is huge but rarely ever mentioned.  This doesn't rely on field propagation delay.  And if proved it might explain other things like the TPU.

Smudge
   
img  evolvingape
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #37 on: 2016-01-25, 18:45:12 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2502
Everyman decries immorality
Quote from: Smudge on 2016-01-25, 15:36:36
Here is another possibility for getting electro-magnetic thrust, this time from the little known scalar magnetic potential of the earth.  That scalar potential is huge but rarely ever mentioned.  This doesn't rely on field propagation delay.  And if proved it might explain other things like the TPU.

Smudge

I concur, my specific gravity field model energised around a fluid mass has a hydraulic energy reservoir and a pneumatic energy reservoir in equilibrium around a natural boundary plane.

The scalar field equalisation potential and the vector force potential are separate frames of reference, and can be switched causing oscillation between potential and kinetic energies.



---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
img  JimBoot
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #38 on: 2016-01-25, 19:58:40 »

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1770
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/technology/has-a-dublin-company-made-a-never-die-battery-1.2509360
At the 6 min mark Sean begins to talk about speeding up a slowing down magnetic fields and converting time into energy. He does not give much away but thought I would post here as seems to be related.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-26, 04:04:58 by JimBoot »
   
img  Smudge
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #39 on: 2016-01-26, 15:57:35 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1940
Quote from: evolvingape on 2016-01-25, 18:45:12
I concur, my specific gravity field model energised around a fluid mass has a hydraulic energy reservoir and a pneumatic energy reservoir in equilibrium around a natural boundary plane.

The scalar field equalisation potential and the vector force potential are separate frames of reference, and can be switched causing oscillation between potential and kinetic energies.

As a matter of interest I am writing a paper on the possibility of using the Earth's large magnetic vector potential.  Again few people realize that at the earth's surface the magnetic vector potential is about 200 Weber/m at the equator and points E-W.  If you wanted that magnitude of A field you could create it on the cylindrical surface of some magnetized iron that is 400m in diameter and much greater than 400m long, which is rather crazy considering it is there already for free.

Smudge
   
img  evolvingape
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #40 on: 2016-01-26, 19:25:40 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2502
Everyman decries immorality
Quote from: Smudge on 2016-01-26, 15:57:35
As a matter of interest I am writing a paper on the possibility of using the Earth's large magnetic vector potential.  Again few people realize that at the earth's surface the magnetic vector potential is about 200 Weber/m at the equator and points E-W.  If you wanted that magnitude of A field you could create it on the cylindrical surface of some magnetized iron that is 400m in diameter and much greater than 400m long, which is rather crazy considering it is there already for free.

Smudge

I think it is an interesting idea  O0

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_potential

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_field

A couple of links to help those following the conversation :)


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
img  Smudge
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #41 on: 2016-01-27, 17:02:28 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1940
Perhaps the wrong place to post this but here is my paper on using the Earth's magnetic vector potential.

Smudge
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #42 on: 2016-02-23, 11:56:01 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3017
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2016-01-19, 10:51:45
So again - as experimentalists - can we comment on what the outcome of the proposed wxperiment will be?  do we expect the wheel to start turning, with NO external torque or force acting, violating conservation of angular momentum?
Do you all agree - the wheel will start to spin due to (imbalanced) force on B?

   Is there anyone interested in actually PERFORMING the experiment?
   
img  ion
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #43 on: 2016-02-23, 14:07:37 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2016-02-23, 11:56:01
   Is there anyone interested in actually PERFORMING the experiment?

I am.

I'm wondering what practical values of capacitance coupling to the "U" loop would yield reasonable output to drive a sensitive meter directly. (I'm sure it an be worked out from Smudge's formula)

Any meter that is used to measure the voltage across RLoad should be battery operating and floating with very little capacitance coupling to either side of the drive transformer.

I'm also wondering if co-axial cable would work as elements of the "U" loop, with the dielectric forming the capacitance, or would this use shield the "A" vector potential.

Also, would this still work if driven from a full wave pulsating DC source?


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  TinMan
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #44 on: 2016-02-23, 14:18:54 »

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2016-02-23, 11:56:01
   Is there anyone interested in actually PERFORMING the experiment?

The biggest problem is getting the charge to accumulate at the speed of light. They cannot even achieve light speeds with the LHC. Em waves may travel at the speed of light,but the creation of that EM wave cannot be produced at the speed of light. To induce and remove a charge within 1 nanosecond is wayyyy out of my league.

As far as the gravitational field traveling at the speed of light,magnetic ,and electric field's-well i do not believe that the gravitational field has a speed-->it is instantaneous. The reason behind my thoughts on this,are as follows.
Light,magnetic,and electric fields all have a source,and a receiver. Light is produced at a source,and can only be seen when it reaches the receiver. Magnetic and electric fields all originate from a source as well,and can be detected only by receivers. The gravitational force originates from a mass,and only acts on another mass that also has a gravitational force. When you have two masses acting upon one another,and then one of the masses is removed instantly,then you no longer have any interaction between masses,and so no gravitational force can exist between two masses,as you only have one mass.

The other issue is in regards to the earth orbiting the sun. This simply cannot happen,as you cannot orbit a moving mass. The path taken by the earth in relation to the sun is a helical path,not an orbital path. As there is a delay of 8.2 seconds for light leaving the sun,to the time it reaches earth,then that would mean the light would have a curved path,where that curve is equal to 8.2 arc seconds. The gravitational pull on the other hand,is a direct line from the sun to the earth,and has no curve. This alone tells us that gravity has no speed,it is just there,as long as there is two masses for the force of gravity to interact between.


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
img  CITFTA
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #45 on: 2016-02-23, 14:51:18 »

Group: Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 782
Believing in something false doesn't make it true.
Hi Brad,

I have an explanation that might explain why gravity appears to be instantaneous.  I came up with this idea about 30 years ago and have seen that some other people have come to the same conclusion.  I don't believe gravity is an attraction between masses.  I believe gravity is a force that exists in space everywhere there is no mass.   When a single mass is in space the force of gravity pushes against that mass equally from all sides.  Now if another mass comes near (near being a relative term) then the masses will each block some of the force of gravity and therefore they will be pushed towards one another.  As far as I know this idea would not change any of the math involved in calculating the force of gravity.  It just involves looking at things from a different perspective.

Carroll


---------------------------
Just because it is on YouTube does not make it real.
   
img  TinMan
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #46 on: 2016-02-23, 15:31:08 »

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4728


Buy me some coffee
Quote from: CITFTA on 2016-02-23, 14:51:18
Hi Brad,

I have an explanation that might explain why gravity appears to be instantaneous.  I came up with this idea about 30 years ago and have seen that some other people have come to the same conclusion.  I don't believe gravity is an attraction between masses.  I believe gravity is a force that exists in space everywhere there is no mass.   When a single mass is in space the force of gravity pushes against that mass equally from all sides.  Now if another mass comes near (near being a relative term) then the masses will each block some of the force of gravity and therefore they will be pushed towards one another.  As far as I know this idea would not change any of the math involved in calculating the force of gravity.  It just involves looking at things from a different perspective.

Carroll

Hi Carroll

The problem with that analogy is that the force of gravity would still exist between the two masses-EG,the sun and earth. Lets look at your analogy using a body of water,and boat's. If we place a boat in the water,we will have a pressure exerted on the hull of the boat from the water. The boat is planet earth,and the water is your gravity that is exerting a force on the boat hull. If we place another boat in that body of water(the sun),that second boat(the sun) in no way changes the force being placed on the hull of the first boat (the earth). The reason for this is because the water still exists all around the boat,like your gravity would still exist all around the body of mass,regardless of another body of mass near by.

The magnetic and gravitational force have one thing in common--no one knows what either of them are O0
We know how to ,and what creates them,and how to use them to our advantage--but we still dont know what they are.


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
img  CITFTA
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #47 on: 2016-02-23, 17:00:50 »

Group: Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 782
Believing in something false doesn't make it true.
Sorry Brad,

I guess I didn't explain it well enough.  The more space there is the stronger the force.  So if you block part of the force then the opposing force will force the objects together.  Also the water has no horizontal force.  It is only supporting the boat.

Carroll


---------------------------
Just because it is on YouTube does not make it real.
   
img  ion
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #48 on: 2016-02-23, 17:31:17 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
From Brad:

Quote
The magnetic and gravitational force have one thing in common--no one knows what either of them are O0
We know how to ,and what creates them,and how to use them to our advantage--but we still dont know what they are.


Very true and and worse yet, no one has supposedly unified these fundamental forces since Einstein, at least that is what we are told........I find that very hard to believe, but if they have been unified, it is probably one of the best kept secrets of highest national security and global security.


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Momentum Conservation Anomalies based on Field propagation at finite speeds « Reply #49 on: 2016-02-23, 21:21:50 »

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3948
tExB=qr
Willie Johnson unified gravity and magnetism in his gyroscopic force theory, but it awaits to be proven with experiments.

His books are not censored or classified at this time, and are available on LULU.com
   
Pages: 1 [2] 3
« previous next »


 

Home Help Search Login Register
Theme © PopularFX | Based on PFX Ideas! | Scripts from iScript4u 2024-11-27, 08:39:24