http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20239-magnet-motor-revelation.html?Seems intriguing ??
thanks for looking and commenting
Chet K
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adding Macks comments hereMack
Quote
I have thought long and hard about revealing the results of my magnet motor experiments but time is my enemy and time is growing short. I want to get this information out before it's too late so I wish to present to you a simple concept for a successful magnet motor. It is a basic rule of nature and that rule is balance. Yin and yang. There is symmetry in nature wherever you look.
This is a pure magnet motor without electrical coils. It seems that everyone claims you can not have a pure magnet motor because you can not get past the sticky point. Well, you can, and it is relatively easy to do. All you have to do is set up your magnets for a net 0 magnetic pull. That means for every set of magnets that are in attraction you simply provide a set that is in repulsion. Think about that, as one rotor / stator magnet set is attracting each other, there is another set that are repelling each other. The two forces cancel each other. How simple.
Now the dubunkers are probably already typing their reply calling me an idiot because no magnet motor could possibly run without magnetic attraction! Well, you must have magnetic attraction so where does it come from? It comes from iron ramps between the stator magnets. You have all seen ######s picture that shows the 4 magnets on the rotor and a repelling magnet at the end of a curved ramp on the stator. There is the basic concept in all its simplicity. What isn't shown is an opposing ramp with it's attracting magnets for balance. Other than that, the principles are all there including a useful magnetic shunt on the stator magnet. See? It's not even my idea, I just applied symmetry to it. The only tricky part is maintaining the magnetic symmetry at the end of the ramps next to the magnets.
The next thing is to build one of these that has significant torque. Torque can be improved by altering the vector of the magnetic pull. You do this by placing the rotor magnet so its magnetic axis is not through the center line of the rotor shaft. The torque given by the magnet as the rotor turns is also related to the rate of change in distance between the rotor magnet and the ramp. Short ramps will provide more torque than long ramps. Shaft torque can also be multiplied with gear or pulley reduction, obviously.
One set of magnets every 45 degrees works well. Magnets at 0, 90, 180, and 270 degrees in attraction. Magnets at 45, 135, 225, and 315 degrees in repulsion. This balances the side forces to the rotor shaft and stator housing. Magnet pairs every 60 degrees will also work.
Other details:
The magnets on the rotor all have the same polarity facing out to the stator.
There must be an equal number of magnet sets in attraction and repulsion at the same time.
The ramps pivot at their center lines. This provides a means to throttle, stop, or reverse the motor rotation.
The ramps are steel with little or no magnetic retention.
I used square or rectangular magnets, not round.
The rotor and stator are nonmagnetic material. Do not use aluminum or any material that will develop eddy currents.
One thing I have not tried is a second set of ramps on the rotor that could possibly double the torque.
It is easy to build one of these motors that will not work. With a little experimentation and careful attention to detail you can build one that does work.
There it is. All of it. Now I can rest with a clear conscience. You can take it at face value or not, your choice.
Best regards to all of you,
another
#13 Old 08-25-2015, 04:21 PM
MadMack MadMack is offline
Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 27
Everyone, thank you for your interest. I'm glad to see I have the attention of some of the real builders here. If anyone can get this, it's you guys.
Charly2, yes that is what I described. Think bigger diameter & more side spacing between magnets.
Ewizard, round magnets might not make a difference but I can't say. I always used square or rectangular magnets, much easier to work with.
Everyone, I have to be very careful here because I'm bound by an NDA. I can not post the design drawings or any images and I can't reveal privileged construction details. However, anything else is fair game. I'm sure you guys can read between the lines and see my situation, and understand what I am trying to prevent.
BTW, when I write about things like this I tend to sound like I'm instructing a class of high school sophomores. Sorry, I can't seem to write any other way, so please overlook my condescending tone.
That being said.... If you are serious about looking into this be forewarned, you must be meticulous in the construction or you will fail. This has nothing to do with magnetic shielding but there may be some flux redirection involved. Later, maybe.
As Dave pointed out, it's hard to find two magnets with the exact same strength. Generally, the field varies inversely by the square of distance, at close spacing anyway, so a simple mechanical test rig can be made to determine which magnets are closest in strength. Alternately it can be used to find the weakest magnet, then to determine the distance at which the other magnets exhibit the same strength. Then you can know the clearance to use with the individual magnets. Do this with both the rotor and stator magnets before construction begins.
The closer the gap between the rotor and stator magnets the more critical the individual magnet clearances become. There is a huge difference in pull between 0.030” and 0.090” gaps. Don't forget to consider any clearance in the rotor shaft and bearings. Shoot for a tight slip fit between the bearing and shaft. Roller bearings would be a good idea I think.
If you decide to pursue this, may I suggest a two pole rig to start with? A 1” thick x 12” long flat with rectangular cross section and a shaft at dead center might make a good rotor to experiment with. One cube magnet each end on the center line, same polarity out. Now might be a good time to review the part in my first post about the rotor magnets and torque. Balance the rotor like you would a lawn mower blade. Then you could mount this parallel to another flat stock, say about 20” square, with two long stator magnets attached to it, 180 degrees and 12+” apart, N-S facing each other. With a rig like that you could try different clearances and magnet positions, etc. The first goal to achieve would be a symmetrical cancellation of magnetic drag. Balance the push and pull and get the rotor to spin past the stator magnets without magnetic drag, and without using any iron ramps.
On a side note, K&J Magnetics carries N52 neos, 1/2” cubes as well as 1/2” x 1/2” x 1” long ones, magnetized through their length. They even have the cubes with a mounting hole through their center that will accept a long machine screw if you dress the threads a little bit. Also you might be interested in looking at McMaster-Carr part number 5913K61 bearings and 1346K17 shaft.
Regards,
Mack
Another
Old Yesterday, 02:10 PM
MadMack MadMack is offline
Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Are the ramps between the magnets on the stator? If so, I would say you need a large rotor so that there will be space for ramps between magnets on the stator.
That would be correct up to a point. Too large and the rake of the ramp becomes too little, unless additional magnets are used. The design is a balance of diameter, number of magnets, strength and size of the magnets, ramp length arc spacing and thickness.
Quote:
Did you use the same number of magnets as in the ###### picture on the rotor?
No. The least was 6. The rotors diameter has a direct bearing on the output torque.
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Do you have magnets on your ramps like ###### did?
Not exactly like his. The picture you posted shows a ramp and repelling magnet, not the attracting magnet and ramp. You do not want to shunt the magnetic field like his picture shows, on the attracting stator magnets.
Quote:
In the ###### version the stator has to remain fixed in order for the thing to work properly. You said your ramps pivoted in the middle? Trying to imagine how that would contribute to the movement of the rotor or what advantage a ramp that pivots in the middle gives to the design.
The pivot in my ramps do not contribute any additional force or movement to the rotor. The power developed is provided by the rake of the ramp in relation to the rotor magnet (rate of change over distance or time). If the ramp can pivot in either direction the rake can be altered, thus decreasing the rate of change and throttling down the output. The ramp pivoting is a mechanically operated mechanism, the gas pedal. If the rake of the ramp is reversed it acts as a brake. If the rake is neutral, the motor stops.
We're getting ahead of where we should be focusing our attention right now.
Let's take it slow and focus on the basic 2 pole test rig instead of the complete motor, ok? Everything you need to know in order to build bigger more powerful motors can be learned with this, for a lot less expense. After we get the magnetic balance, or very close to it, then we can move on to the ramp details.
For now, picture this. We have a 2 pole rotor and the attraction is balanced to the repulsion. You can rotate the rotor by hand and feel very little or no cogging. You stick a ramp at one side of the attracting stator magnet. As the attracted rotor magnet comes under the influence of the ramp it accelerates. As it accelerates toward the stator magnet, it also gains inertia. The stator magnet also attracts, but the stator magnets attraction is being neutralized by the repelling magnets at the opposite side of the motor. The rotor inertia carries the rotor magnet fully under and slightly past the attracting stator magnets center line. At this same instant, the rotor magnet at the opposite side, 180 degrees away has traveled slightly past the center line of the repelling stator magnet, which is now doing its job and preventing the attracted rotor magnet from being dragged back under its attracting stator magnet. The rotor is free wheeling at this point. Inertia continues the rotation until the rotor magnets come under the influence of the next set of ramps and the cycle repeats.
Mack
Author
Topic: A gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??] (Read 15553 times)
