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Author Topic: Switched capacitor motor  (Read 41921 times)
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Hi Folks,

I think we ought to respect this thread: it has the topic on switched capacitor motors by Smudge and now we have more posts on Windows motor than on the switched capacitor one...

Sorry that I also increased off topic by my posts and perhaps there is a Window motor thread somewhere here which is reachable by everyone?  Then a moderator could move the posts to that Windows motor thread.

Gyula
   
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Hi Folks,

I think we ought to respect this thread: it has the topic on switched capacitor motors by Smudge and now we have more posts on Windows motor than on the switched capacitor one...

Sorry that I also increased off topic by my posts and perhaps there is a Window motor thread somewhere here which is reachable by everyone?  Then a moderator could move the posts to that Windows motor thread.

Gyula

You are right gyula and I derailed it sorry, I only meant to ask Smudge if he thought the window motor type construction would lend itself more suitably to his idea, then it took off in that direction. Still waiting on Smudge's reply. I would like to see everyone post their thoughts on Smudge's idea as presented in his paper.

my original question:
Quote
Regarding the switched capacitor idea, do you think the magnet rotating inside solenoid, as in Mike or Newman would be a better approach than two separate coils.?

Kind regards, ION


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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"Oh, sure, years ago I built a motor that ran forever and never discharged its battery. But I took it apart to see why it was working, and now it doesn't work any more."

How many times have we heard this story, or variants of it?


NEVER NEVER EVER FOR ANY REASON TAKE APART A "WORKING" FREE ENERGY OVERUNITY DEVICE!!! NEVER!!!

If you feel that you must take something apart, BUILD ANOTHER IDENTICAL UNIT and take that one apart!

Good grief.
   
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"Oh, sure, years ago I built a motor that ran forever and never discharged its battery. But I took it apart to see why it was working, and now it doesn't work any more."

How many times have we heard this story, or variants of it?


NEVER NEVER EVER FOR ANY REASON TAKE APART A "WORKING" FREE ENERGY OVERUNITY DEVICE!!! NEVER!!!

If you feel that you must take something apart, BUILD ANOTHER IDENTICAL UNIT and take that one apart!

Good grief.

Yes those stories are quite incredible, and the M.O. persists to this day with minor variations on a theme.

I agree totally with your sentiments on this.


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Been away from home again in the middle of nowhere with no 3g or 4g signals so no internet :( .  It will take me a while to study that Window motor meanwhile bear with me while I produce a paper that makes things clearer.  Before I go here is something to think about.  Having the coil connected to a capacitor really does synthesize the effect of having permeable material in the core.  The math that proves this will be shown in the paper but note it is for continuous AC, not for sudden switch-on.  When the capacitor is connected the magnet is at right angles to the coil axis and the coil is producing its voltage peak.  So the capacitor has to be already charged to that voltage, then there is no sudden inrush of current and the thing can continue in LC sinusoidal fashion with the capacitor voltage falling while the current rises.  At the end of that quarter cycle the voltage is zero and the current is maximum, so the capacitor has been discharged.  The magnet is now aligned with the coil axis.  That is the point where the capacitor is disconnected and you can argue that the mechanical energy gained (equivalent to the magnet poles being drawn towards the synthesized core) is equal to the capacitor energy lost.  But note the current, that is maximum and we want it to become zero, but you can't just turn off current in an inductive circuit, there is some energy there to be recovered by the bemf spike.  Let's suppose we can quickly recover that energy and use it to re-charge the capacitor ready for the next quarter cycle attraction.  Is that system OU?  That remains to be seen but there is a good chance it is.  During that attraction phase the magnet is seeing flux being added to its own flux, the magnet is moving away from its natural load line and that change is exactly what is needed for the atomic dipoles in the magnet to supply energy.  If the coil did contain permeable material we would get cyclic cogging torque which averages to zero.  That energy extracted from the quantum domain gets fed back on the next quarter cycle so is never seen.  Perhaps this is one way of capturing that energy.

Smudge
   

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The tin layer around stator magnet on winded isolation layer and makes shorted coil. As soon as the external magnet is passing, it creates current inside which creates opposing magnetic field. This field reacts with the magnetic field from the magnet inside and in the summary you get induced magnetic field neutralized. Same happen with concealed magnetic pole of the magnet. You can test it by making one as per it was shown in:

Cheers!


The demonstration of the hand-held stators exhibiting attraction force in one orientation and not exhibiting attraction force in another orientation cannot be due to induced currents, they aren't moving.  There is nothing magical in those stators, anyone skillled in FEMM simulations could show their characteristics.  As I said, horseshoe magnets have the same properties.

Smudge
   

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To help understand Lenz's law in relation to sinusoidal flux here is a simple page illustrating the situation with rising and falling flux.  I have simply split the AC waveform into two parts showing the flux rising and then falling.  With a resistive load the current induced into the coil is in-phase with the voltage and this leads to the standard Lenz's Law where the flux from that current tries to oppose the change.  It doesn't necessarily create opposite polarity flux, it is opposing the flux change, it is not opposing the flux per se.

Then I show the situation with an inductive load where the current lags the induced voltage.  Now it is seen that we do get Lenz's Law as an absolute, the flux from that current is of the opposite polarity as the applied flux, the total flux is decreased.  That is exactly the situation for having a diamagnetic material within the coil, the field is reduced from what it would be if the material were not there.

Next I show the capacitive load where the current leads the induced voltage.  Now the flux from that current is of the same polarity as the applied flux, the total flux is increased.  That is exactly the situation for having permeable material within the coil.

Smudge
   

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Having the coil connected to a capacitor really does synthesize the effect of having permeable material in the core.  The math that proves this will be shown in the paper but note it is for continuous AC, not for sudden switch-on.
Yes, for the nth AC cycle, but not for the 1st cycle...and there is the crux of the matter.
   
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VErpies: 
Quote
Yes, for the nth AC cycle, but not for the 1st cycle...and there is the crux of the matter.

Huh?

I'm trying to follow all this - thanks Smudge for patiently explaining...
 Now, is Verpies correct?  indeed, what is he saying?
   

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VErpies: 
Huh?

I'm trying to follow all this - thanks Smudge for patiently explaining...
 Now, is Verpies correct?  indeed, what is he saying?
Verpies hasn't quite got it.  He is correct if you just switch an uncharged capacitor into the circuit.  At the point where you want the capacitor switched in the flux through the coil is going through zero, its rate of change is maximum and the coil is producing maximum voltage.  What you don't want is that voltage creating a sudden inrush of current into the capacitor.  Therefore the capacitor has to be pre-charged to that voltage, and that creates the condition that would apply to the nth AC cycle.  Then the system carries on as through the AC were there all the time.  When the magnet has moved through a quarter rev the voltage is now zero but the current is a maximum.  That is when the capacitor is switched out and you have lost all the energy that was stored in the capacitor.  But there is still energy stored in the inductance of the coil, and that can be recovered.  In fact you want to recover it quickly before the magnet has moved far so that the decaying current can't create back torque.  I have looked into some math and it appears that the energy you regain from the inductance is equal to the energy you originally put into the capacitor, see paper attached.  But you have gained that quarter rev of mechanical energy.  So theoretically it looks like a self runner, but there are numerous problems, not least are (a) the resistance of the coil and (b) converting the high voltage quick discharge spike back down to the lower voltage needed to pre-charge the capacitor.  However it is nice to obtain a theoretical gain of energy since that can be the start of a process that could lead to a practical machine.

Smudge
   

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Here is a quick sketch showing the sequencing.  Sorry for the drip feed but I am publishing as I go along.

Smudge
   
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@Smudge
Quote
Here is a quick sketch showing the sequencing.  Sorry for the drip feed but I am publishing as I go along.

I think I see the problem and it relates specifically to the mechanism whereby energy dissipates in the system. When the capacitor current is producing a magnetic field in the coil the moving PM magnetic field is also producing a Cemf limiting the capacitor current in the coil. However this is not the mechanism for dissipation which is due to the fact the PM field has partially saturated the coil field causing it to act more like a resistance rather than an inductance. In effect the coil starts dissipating energy in the resistance of the coil rather than storing it in a magnetic field which could perform physical work.

We could think of the two magnetic fields as separate wheels and the increased magnetic field density between the two equivalent to slippage between the wheels. When the PM field interacts with the coil field some current flows in the coil which does no physical work (slippage) other than dissipating energy as heat instead of causing a field change which could do work.

I took a different approach to solving these problems and rather than design systems I thought might increase efficiency or bend the rules I wanted to understand the specific mechanisms whereby energy dissipates. I understand many simply measure a voltage drop as something lost however this tells us nothing as to why the voltage drop occurred in the first place. Once I understood the fundamental cause of how and why energy dissipates within a system the next step was to understand the alter ego of dissipation which is accumulation. They are very similar in there nature and while dissipation acts outward accumulation acts inward. It seems common sense that it would be very hard to design a system which does not dissipate energy when it is not know why or how energy actually dissipates in the system.


AC


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A bucket of water placed on a scale has a weight vector within the field of a fundamental force, gravity.

A bucket of water has a liquid pressure hydrostatic potential difference of 1.5 psi per meter, this is a scalar specific gravity field, energised by the primary vector fundamental force field, gravity.

A bucket of water placed upon another bucket of water will double the weight vector force on the scale, but greatly increase the hydrostatic pressure of the liquid in the bottom bucket.. if the scalar liquid fields are prevented from equalisation..!

What we can learn from this is that there is a primary vector field force (gravity, one of the fundamental forces), and this.. also.. creates a scalar field force equlibrium. We can also demonstrate that a discreet vector force (weight of bucket of water) can hugely energise an existing scalar field and produce a large force increase (hydraulic pressure) while only doubling the primary field force (weight).

When we use the electrical energy generated from the above process to phase change transition liquid to gas we get a massive volume differential which creates a buoyancy change and a resultant force which is supplied by the scalar specific gravity field (which itself is supplied by the primary fundamental force vector gravity field).

This means that the height that the hollow gas filled piston will subsequently travel up the tube will be from work done by a fundamental force seeking to achieve equilibrium within a secondary field (the SGF).

Therefore the height that the piston travels via buoyancy is disconnected from the system energy loop and will ascend forever if allowed for, the energy to do that provided by the specific gravity field. Any increase in height of the liquid water energy reservoirs (a and b which are always equal) becomes > for the input but has zero cost to the output.. from a certain point of view. Therefore COP becomes scalable in the detached variable frame of reference (height dimension, one of the 3 defining space coordinates).

Mass is also involved as is density but that is another conversation for another day. Tired of this these days, have achieved my goal of COP>1 from a fundamental force, happily retired :) I offer the above thoughts in the hope that coming recognition of the replicability of my work will give you faith in the supporting model, and through smart integration of the principles within your own field models progress can be made in the electromagnetic arena. hhop gen 3 also incorporates an alternator that is supplied within the system process loop at a constant COP>1 efficiency therefore reducing Power In to Zero from a user perspective, an interesting place to test your vector scalar field integration theories  O0

Electromagnetic four-potential

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_four-potential


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Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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Smudge - thank you for the diagrams.  Still missing (at least for me) is how to extract/store the energy from the bemf as the coil-field collapses (in the last diagram).

Evo-ape - thank you for your boldness, " Therefore COP becomes scalable in the detached variable frame of reference (height dimension, one of the 3 defining space coordinates).

Mass is also involved as is density but that is another conversation for another day. Tired of this these days, have achieved my goal of COP>1 from a fundamental force, happily retired Smiley I offer the above thoughts in the hope that coming recognition of the replicability of my work will give you faith in the supporting model, and through smart integration of the principles within your own field models progress can be made in the electromagnetic arena. hhop gen 3 also incorporates an alternator that is supplied within the system process loop at a constant COP>1 efficiency therefore reducing Power In to Zero from a user perspective"

But can you be more specific, like diagrams such as Smudge gives? or something specific to replicate? 
Certainly your words are intriguing... but puzzling and unfulfilling.
   
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Here is a quick sketch showing the sequencing.  Sorry for the drip feed but I am publishing as I go along.

Smudge

Smudge

The timing diagram is for one quarter cycle. Can we assume the cycle repeats for the other quadrants?

0 degrees equals the start position of your sequencing drawing,

0              45               90             135             180           225              270             315            360

OP            CL               OP             CL               OP             CL                OP              CL               OP

So this will require a four lobed cam on the shaft triggering a mechanical switch.

Or an array of  four small magnets on the shaft driving a reed switch or Hall effect device.

Or an optical slotted wheel.

and so on


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   

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Smudge

The timing diagram is for one quarter cycle. Can we assume the cycle repeats for the other quadrants?

0 degrees equals the start position of your sequencing drawing,

0              45               90             135             180           225              270             315            360

OP            CL               OP             CL               OP             CL                OP              CL               OP

So this will require a four lobed cam on the shaft triggering a mechanical switch.

Or an array of  four small magnets on the shaft driving a reed switch or Hall effect device.

Or an optical slotted wheel.

and so on


Not quite but see new additional sequencing attached.  Using CL to mean the angle at which switch closure occurs, OP to mean the angle at switch opening occurs and NC to mean no change in switch position, your chart should look like this.

0              45               90             135             180            225              270             315            360

CL             NC               OP             NC               CL             NC               OP               NC              CL

Smudge

   

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Smudge - thank you for the diagrams.  Still missing (at least for me) is how to extract/store the energy from the bemf as the coil-field collapses (in the last diagram).

To get the coil energy to collapse quickly it needs to be resonantly transferred into a small capacitor.  Just having that small capacitor connected via a hold-off diode will do it, the peak bemf voltage is held in the capacitor for future use.  The problem now is we have high voltage in a small capacitor, whereas we want to get it as lower voltage in a large capacitor, the one we are going to connect to the coil later in the cycle.  A possible solution is to do the transfer via a step-down transformer where at the primary the large capacitor across the secondary is seen as that lower value.  This can still occur resonantly.  Just needs appropriate switching and diodes. I'll try to knock up a circuit.  Note that the large capacitor that is connected to the coil at appropriate points in the cycle has to get pre-charged alternately positive and negative.  Might need two capacitors alternately used.

Smudge
   

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Here is a quick sketch showing the sequencing.  Sorry for the drip feed but I am publishing as I go along.
And that rotating gray block in your sketch is a soft ferromagnetic or a hard ferromagnetic (permanent magnet) ?  I have to ask because you did not mark any pole designations on the ends of that gray block.
If it is the former, then how is it different from C.A.R.A.?
   

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And that rotating gray block in your sketch is a soft ferromagnetic or a hard ferromagnetic (permanent magnet) ?  I have to ask because you did not mark any pole designations on the ends of that gray block.
If it is the former, then how is it different from C.A.R.A.?

It's a a PM and the additional sequencing sent a few posts back does identify the different poles.

Smudge
   
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Dear Smudge

I think part of the sequencing misunderstanding is that I took the initial condition of your sequencing diagram to be  0 degrees at 9:00.  So that we are all in harmony could you kindly revise your sequencing diagram to show the start  or zero degrees position of the magnet. and label each drawing with the degrees  of rotation. One end of the magnet should be labelled as the pointing end for the degrees rotation.


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ION,

Try this one.

Smudge
   

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It's a PM and the additional sequencing sent a few posts back does identify the different poles.
I had to ask since your textual description mentioned a permanent magnet but your diagram seemed not to agree with it because in drawings, that I am used to, a gray slab usually denotes a soft ferrite.
Now it's clear and I can analyze it without worrying that you had something else in mind.
« Last Edit: 2015-08-26, 09:02:36 by verpies »
   

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Verpies:  
Huh?
I'm trying to follow all this - thanks Smudge for patiently explaining...
Now, is Verpies correct?  indeed, what is he saying?
I am saying that if there is no energy gain in the 1st cycle then there will be no gain in subsequent cycles.
The 1st cycle can be made equivalent to subsequent cycles when its initial conditions are the same for the same rotor position.

For example:
1) the rotor at 0º.
2) capacitor charged to some voltage V
3) no current flowing through the winding L

Analysis:
As capacitor is discharged into the winding, electric current flows through the winding and generates magnetic flux.  If the PM rotor were immobilized then this current would vary sinusoidally in time due to the self-inducance of the winding and the LC relationship with the capacitor, but since the rotor can move, the magnetic gradient attracts it and it moves/rotates.
The approach of the magnet induces current in the winding that is in opposite direction to the current discharging from the capacitor.  These two currents oppose and fight each other thus the current flowing through the winding is not sinusoidal, anymore.

If the winding were unpowered by the capacitor yet shorted, then the approach of the rotor would still induce the same current in this winding and in the same direction as with the powered winding.  Also, an unpowered shorted winding repels the rotor while a powered winding attracts the rotor (if the powering current is greater than the induced current).

Some people prefer to call it CEMF.
When the capacitor current is producing a magnetic field in the coil the moving PM magnetic field is also producing a CEMF limiting the capacitor current in the coil.

Consequently, the ½Li2 energy stored in the powered winding/coil at TDC (90º) is smaller when the rotor is allowed to approach to it vs. when it is not allowed to approach.

« Last Edit: 2015-08-26, 09:07:31 by verpies »
   

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Evo-ape - thank you for your boldness, " Therefore COP becomes scalable in the detached variable frame of reference (height dimension, one of the 3 defining space coordinates).

But can you be more specific, like diagrams such as Smudge gives? or something specific to replicate? 
Certainly your words are intriguing... but puzzling and unfulfilling.

Prof, all of the diagrams you need are provided from post #30 in the hhop thread:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2288.msg49565#msg49565

If we reverse engineer hhop gen 3 we can understand that a hollow piston submerged in a liquid can ascend vertically via the buoyancy force if it is less dense than the surrounding medium (the water). Archimedes principle allows us to quantify the upwards buoyancy force on the piston:

"Any object, wholly or partially immersed in a fluid, is buoyed up by a force equal to the weight of the fluid displaced by the object."

— Archimedes of Syracuse

The amount of electrical energy required to displace (pump) a certain amount of water to cancel out the downwards weight force of the piston solid body, and overcome the resistance friction of the seal if using an o ring for example, can be experimentally determined. This is the energy required to return the system to starting conditions and complete one cycle.

This electrical energy is provided by the alternator which is powered by the water wheel which is itself powered by the weight loaded accumulator. The volume of water that is required to run the alternator for the necessary time to provide the exact amount of electrical energy for the electrolysis process can be experimentally determined.

As alternators and water wheels are typically around 90% efficient, and there are other system losses such as slight pressure loss from raising water through a height you would slightly oversize your reservoir to cover your incurred operational losses. At this stage when your electrical energy generated at your alternator (run time) precisely matches the electrical energy required to ascend your piston via the buoyancy force you would have a 1:1 ratio.

It is now critical to understand that if the dimensions and weight of the hollow piston do not change, the amount of electrical energy required to create sufficient density change of the piston body for it to ascend, will not change either. It would continue to ascend as long as it had a liquid medium to travel up within.

This means that should you now decide to double the volume of your reservoirs you will have changed the ratio to 2:1, if you triple the volume 3:1 etc.. however, you can only increase the volume by extending the height dimension of the system, you cannot change the radius (or diameter) or you will change the amount of electrical energy required for electrolysis to create gas displacement pumping, thus changing the "1" in the relationship.

The primary gravitational field provides the force to energise the input side of the system, and the secondary gravitational field (the specific gravity field) is created by the primary field and provides the force to reset the system. User input is zero and therefore hhop gen 3 is classified as an infinite COP device just like a solar panel, but runs 24/7/365.

The energy can only be harvested from the specific gravity field, which is fed by the primary field that generates it, which is why you can scale the energy output available above COP 1 by increasing the height of the water chamber reservoirs.

Some of the things we can learn from this are that a vector field can under specific circumstances create a secondary scalar field. Energy can be extracted from this secondary field and is effectively infinite (gravity is a fundamental force, not a fuel that is consumed). When the primary vector field has used its gravitational potential energy (its weight) it still has the secondary scalar field potential available, which can be energised by another primary vector field (weight).

1 litre of water = 1 Kg = 2.2 lbf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_%28force%29

The pound-force is equal to the gravitational force exerted on a mass of one avoirdupois pound on the surface of Earth.

1 lbf = 4.44 Newtons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weight

In science and engineering, the weight of an object is usually taken to be the force on the object due to gravity.[1][2] Weight is a vector whose magnitude (a scalar quantity), often denoted by an italic letter W, is the product of the mass m of the object and the magnitude of the local gravitational acceleration g;[3] thus: W = mg. The unit of measurement for weight is that of force, which in the International System of Units (SI) is the newton. For example, an object with a mass of one kilogram has a weight of about 9.8 newtons on the surface of the Earth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pounds_per_square_inch

The pound per square inch or, more accurately, pound-force per square inch (abbreviations: psi, lbf/in2, lbf/in2, lbf/sq in, lbf/sq in) is a unit of pressure or of stress based on avoirdupois units. It is the pressure resulting from a force of one pound-force applied to an area of one square inch

lbf = psi only when the liquid piston is 1 inch square (outlet nozzle for turbine), which is approximately 14.3 millimeters diameter, which is the size of a small micro hydro nozzle diameter.


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
ION,

Try this one.

Smudge

Thanks Smudge, that clears everything up.

Regards
ION


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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