Meyer-Mace Isotopic NMR Generator

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Author Topic: Meyer-Mace Isotopic NMR Generator (Read 115603 times)

verpies	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #75 on: 2015-07-07, 00:02:24 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3494	Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-06, 17:28:07 I thought i had seen that somewhere but when i went back could not find it, must be the first patent then i think? It is in your first post of this thread Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-06, 17:28:07 Seems small for pumping 400 watts in at 23MHz It does indeed. The energy of magnetic field depends on its volume as well as the flux density - see Smudge's lately attached paper. Power is a measure how quickly energy changes per second.

verpies	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #76 on: 2015-07-07, 01:35:59 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3494	Quote from: Smudge on 2015-07-06, 19:42:00 The chart showing that zone shows the magnetization to be between 90% and 100% of saturation value Yes. Quote from: Smudge on 2015-07-06, 19:42:00 so most of the ferromagnetic dipoles hence also nuclear dipoles are aligned. No, take a look at the composite graph below. I marked the 5kG external field with a red line. You can see that the red line is almost in the middle of the yellow domain rotation zone. At 5kG the domain wall volume is at 67% of its maximum, thus not all domain dipoles are aligned with the external field (if they were then the domain wall volume would be zero) ------------------------ Meyer-Mace Isotopic NMR Generator Fe NMR.png (26.25 kB, 491x402 - viewed 3494 times.) « Last Edit: 2015-07-07, 02:32:18 by verpies »

verpies	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #77 on: 2015-07-07, 01:51:38 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3494	Quote from: Smudge on 2015-07-06, 19:42:00 But the three coils shown in the patents have different requirements and are not connected as depicted in your diagrams. These bucking coils produce the same flux pattern between them even when they are not grounded at the midpoint and are completely separated galvanically and having 4 terminals. Quote from: Smudge on 2015-07-06, 19:42:00 I am mystified by the axial RF drive coil. If my reasoning is correct and the nuclear dipoles are aligned along the magnetization axis then you need cross coupling to drive them. Yes but as we can see from the graph above, at 0.5T, not all of the domain dipoles are aligned along the magnetization axis. Also, any bucking fields from two segmented coaxial coils will tend to produce a radial flux (perpendicular to the fuel rod's major axis). Quote from: Smudge on 2015-07-06, 19:42:00 Note that all the nuclei are already precessing but at random phases so the net effect is zero. To pump them with RF you need to access their off-axis component that is rotating at their resonant frequency, not their on-axis component which is constant. They can then absorb energy over a number of cycles that tries to speed up the precession process, creating the torque to ultimately flip them through the desired angle. The on-axis RF magnetic field does not do this. Yes, the on-axis parallel field cannot pump the nuclei ...but the external field that is parallel to the rod's axis is not parallel to the unaligned domain dipoles. Ask yourself a question: At what value of the external field, the integral of the product of domain dipole magnitudes * sin θ, occurs? (where θ denotes the angles between the domain dipoles and the external field). Don't disregard the results from this Fe NMR paper, that concludes that domains first grow and later they rotate their magnetization vectors, as the external field increases. Quote from: Smudge on 2015-07-06, 19:42:00 Also I do wonder whether the patents reflect someone's aspirations rather than an accomplished and verified experiment. I wonder, too. There is an article by Renaud de la Taille in "Science et Vie" nr.700 March 1976 ( pages 42-45 ), that features an actually built device...allegedly functioning. « Last Edit: 2015-07-07, 09:04:34 by verpies »

Smudge	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #78 on: 2015-07-07, 17:13:55 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1938	Quote from: verpies on 2015-07-07, 01:35:59 No, take a look at the composite graph below. I marked the 5kG external field with a red line. You can see that the red line is almost in the middle of the yellow domain rotation zone. At 5kG the domain wall volume is at 67% of its maximum, thus not all domain dipoles are aligned with the external field (if they were then the domain wall volume would be zero) IMO domain wall volume is not an indication of domain or dipole alignment, so you can have a significant number of domains (hence also wall volume) whose dipoles are almost aligned. Magnetization is a direct indication of dipole alignment. At 0.5T the magnetization is about 97% of its maximum, and that tells me most of the dipoles are aligned. That chart showing the different regions is common to most ferromagnetic materials. Smudge

Peterae	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #79 on: 2015-07-07, 20:58:53 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3959	I started machining the mild steel frame today, using mild steel rod at the moment until i source the 18mm diameter pure iron. In the patent he Chrome plates the mild steel frame, something i cannot do myself, any idea if this might be important as it may cost a bit, will need to get a quote when machined. I need to start thinking about the wire connections to the iron rod, shall i extent the iron rod by 5mm beyond the mild steel frame, and tap each end for a screw terminal connection. Also need to start thinking about coil construction/ bobbin sizes, coil turns and wire thickness for the following 5. We have 5 things to wind Heater winding somehow insulated electrically but allowing conductive heat to the iron rod, then insulated with Grumages 1000 Deg C insulation, with a thermocouple embedded, and then bobbins on top of this insulated layer. 1) Heater Coil 2) Bias coil 3) 45.5MHz 20 Turn coil 4) 50Hz AC 1 5) 50Hz AC 2 The heater coil i am wondering if this is best done using a non inductive way down the length of the iron rod instead of winding as if a coil axially down the length. Anyway some calcs so 90mm length of 20mm diameter iron rod weights 224g specific heat of iron is 448 joules/kg so 100 joules will raise our iron 1 Deg C if our starting temperature is 20 Deg C and we want 700 Deg C then our temperature difference is 680 Dec C and our energy required 100 * 680 or 68000 joules if we were to raise this over 240 seconds then we get a power rating of 283 Watts joules/s of power if we run the heater from 48V then we have a current of 5.9 Amps The heater needs a resistance of R = V^2/P or 48^2/283 = 8.15 Ohms I should now be able to work out my wire length and diameter once it's geometry is chosen. « Last Edit: 2015-07-07, 22:19:16 by Peterae »

verpies	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #80 on: 2015-07-07, 22:50:07 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3494	Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-07, 20:58:53 I started machining the mild steel frame today, using mild steel rod at the moment until i source the 18mm diameter pure iron. In the patent he Chrome plates the mild steel frame, something i cannot do myself, any idea if this might be important as it may cost a bit, will need to get a quote when machined. IMO Chrome does not matter and Iron does What is your source for pure Iron rods? ...I'd like to know for myself (powder is not a problem) Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-07, 20:58:53 I need to start thinking about the wire connections to the iron rod, shall i extent the iron rod by 5mm beyond the mild steel frame, and tap each end for a screw terminal connection. I don't think this would affect anything negatively. Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-07, 20:58:53 We have 5 things to wind Heater winding somehow insulated electrically but allowing conductive heat to the iron rod, then insulated with Grumages 1000 Deg C insulation, with a thermocouple embedded. The heater coil i am wondering if this is best done using a non inductive way down the length of the iron rod instead of winding as if a coil axially down the length. IMO the heater winding should be wound in an non-inductive manner like this. ...but the heater winding does not have to be wound over the fuel rod at all. For example it could be wound over the U support structure. Alternatively, the heater winding can be skipped altogether and the support structure can be heated with gas flame. Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-07, 20:58:53 2) Bias coil 3) 45.5MHz 20 Turn coil 4) 50Hz AC 1 5) 50Hz AC 2 2) Should be much larger than the diameter of the fuel rod. The number of turns and amperage was calculated here. 3) I strongly recommend Litz wire for this one. 4 & 5) I'd go for 4Ω at 50Hz which gives the inductance of 4Ω/(6.2850Hz) = ~13mH wound with thick wire like this*. ...none of these 4 windings need to touch the fuel rod and they should be far away from the U support structure. I hope Cyril will throw in some of his calculations and suggestions, too. ------------------------ Meyer-Mace Isotopic NMR Generator Mayer Heater.png (341.94 kB, 655x643 - viewed 1485 times.) Meyer-Mace Isotopic NMR Generator Bucking Gap.png (15.97 kB, 478x277 - viewed 1885 times.)

Peterae	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #81 on: 2015-07-08, 06:35:22 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3959	Wow thanks verpies for the fast response. It maybe best and more energy efficient to heat the iron rod from within the rod, if it was a tube, for instance if the 20mm iron rod has a 5mm hole down the centre, then the heater can be inserted inside along with the temp sensor. Waiting for a quote on the pure iron rod, not on order yet, once i find a viable source i will post the source. Wow pure iron powder is available i think easier anyway, will research when get home from work I have plenty to build for the moment. If you guys can prove to me i need that 500 Watt amplifer using maths i am going to be much more willing to part with money My iron internal rod length is 90mm long, see drawing in 2ND post, how far is far away from the iron support frame

verpies	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #82 on: 2015-07-08, 09:58:41 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3494	Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-08, 06:35:22 It maybe best and more energy efficient to heat the iron rod from within the rod, if it was a tube, for instance if the 20mm iron rod has a 5mm hole down the centre, then the heater can be inserted inside along with the temp sensor. It could but it would be too much of a departure from the patent. It would affect the reluctance of the rod and possibly reactions inside it. Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-08, 06:35:22 Waiting for a quote on the pure iron rod, not on order yet, once i find a viable source i will post the source. IMO pure iron begins at 99.5% Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-08, 06:35:22 Wow pure iron powder is available i think easier anyway, Yes it is easier but is it the same? (density, resistivity, reluctance, saturation...) Powder can be packed inside a tube to create a make-shift rod. Melting iron powder without contamination by the atmosphere and the crucible would be hard. Grumage would know better how feasible that is. Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-08, 06:35:22 If you guys can prove to me i need that 500 Watt amplifier using maths i am going to be much more willing to part with money I can't do that yet but the patent mentions 460W per mole of iron. Calculating the electric skin effect is easy but the attenuation of AC magnetic flux inside iron - not so much. Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-08, 06:35:22 My iron internal rod length is 90mm long, see drawing in 2ND post, how far is far away from the iron support frame Depends how large the coil diameters are. 90mm length seems a little short for 4 windings. Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-08, 06:35:22 I have plenty to build for the moment. My intuition tells me that for a 20mm rod the U support structure should be thicker than 10mm. I think the patent drawing shows different proportions, too. ------------------------ Meyer-Mace Isotopic NMR Generator Mayer Diag1.png (105.8 kB, 771x390 - viewed 2714 times.) « Last Edit: 2015-07-08, 11:03:46 by verpies »

Peterae	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #83 on: 2015-07-08, 18:09:21 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3959	Yes the device i am building is a scaled version of the second patent which actually only has 3 coils, but it is scaled to the drawing. Note that the Czech patent should also work with 3 coils, although i was hoping we could add a fourth to the rod to move closer to the Czech patent. We only need a glimmer of beta decay, as soon as we see this glimmer, we can refine the device. Using 45.5MHz should hopefully improve out chances against the patent running at 23MHz and relying on the 2ND harmonic. One end of the rod has a 1mm Clearance around the 20mm rod, the other end is interference push fitted, the rod is only mild steel at the moment. ------------------------ Meyer-Mace Isotopic NMR Generator StillCap0033.jpg (141.3 kB, 1280x1024 - viewed 1793 times.) Meyer-Mace Isotopic NMR Generator StillCap0034.jpg (148.4 kB, 1280x1024 - viewed 656 times.) Meyer-Mace Isotopic NMR Generator StillCap0035.jpg (154.81 kB, 1280x1024 - viewed 604 times.) Meyer-Mace Isotopic NMR Generator StillCap0036.jpg (160.94 kB, 1280x1024 - viewed 592 times.) Meyer-Mace Isotopic NMR Generator StillCap0037.jpg (150.07 kB, 1280x1024 - viewed 568 times.)

verpies	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #84 on: 2015-07-08, 20:47:19 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3494	Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-08, 18:09:21 Yes the device i am building is a scaled version of the second patent which actually only has 3 coils, but it is scaled to the drawing. The Czech patent mentions that 4 coils work better and I see how that would be because the flux becomes more perpendicular to the rod, between two bucking coils. Remember Smudge's comments and my diagram? @Smudge What would be the ideal size and placing of these bucking coils, in order to yield flux that is maximally perpendicular to the rod ? (I think you called it a "cross field") Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-08, 18:09:21 One end of the rod has a 1mm Clearance around the 20mm rod, the other end is interference push fitted,... Push fit is good for low reluctance of the magnetic path and in case you decide to heat the rod by heating the U support with a flame.

Peterae	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #85 on: 2015-07-08, 21:18:27 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3959	Quote The Czech patent mentions that 4 coils work better and I see how that would be because the flux becomes more perpendicular to the rod, between two bucking coils. Remember Smudge's comments and my diagram? The great thing about improvements is there is room for a version 2. As i say if we can even get a hint of beta decay then we know there will be many ways to improve performance each time there is a new device. Having said that if we can fit a bucking 2 coil system on this former then great. I don't believe the Czech patent is drawn to scale it's more a working principle sketch, where as the 2ND patent drawing was precisely drawn. I have used the diameter of the rod to scale the sides and bottom from the patent proportionally.

Peterae	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #86 on: 2015-07-09, 19:49:37 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3959	Quote Alternatively, the heater winding can be skipped altogether and the support structure can be heated with gas flame. I am not sure that would be a good idea, we need the pure iron rod to be saturated but i would have thought we are relying on the support structure to close the magnetic field, and for that to happen the support structure needs to be a lot less saturated.

verpies	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #87 on: 2015-07-10, 08:27:09 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3494	Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-09, 19:49:37 I am not sure that would be a good idea, we need the pure iron rod to be saturated but i would have thought we are relying on the support structure to close the magnetic field, and for that to happen the support structure needs to be a lot less saturated. You might be right about that

Peterae	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #88 on: 2015-07-13, 15:13:43 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3959	I've ordered my pure iron from www.pureiron.co.uk http://pureiron.co.uk/technical_data.htm 99.8% pure Cost was £14.40 including 2ND class postage for a 30cm length of 20mm diameter. Although the web site says minimun order of £50 & postage £20 they do samples at a much lower cost

verpies	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #89 on: 2015-07-13, 19:12:39 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3494	Quote from: Peterae on 2015-07-13, 15:13:43 http://pureiron.co.uk/technical_data.htm 99.8% pure You can test if this is true by winding some windings on it and measuring its inductance and converting it into its relative permeability. Natural Iron (99.9% annealed) = 200000 Natural Iron (99.8% annealed) = 6000 Natural Iron (98.5% rolled) = 2000 Enriched Fe⁵⁷ (99.9%) = I wonder

Peterae	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #90 on: 2015-07-13, 19:34:48 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3959	Sure will do Quote Enriched Fe57 (99.9%) = I wonder Surely not, that would be asking a lot Thanks

verpies	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #91 on: 2015-07-13, 21:37:24 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3494	Measuring the permeability of pure Fe⁵⁷ would be a good Ph.D thesis. The author of such, probably would have to enrich the iron himself because it is not available commercially. Maybe he could use the fact, that Fe⁵⁷ is the only stable isotope that has non-zero magnetic moment (see here). P.S. I am not suggesting that pure Fe⁵⁷ is necessary for the Mayer contraption.

Peterae	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #92 on: 2015-09-21, 20:21:08 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3959	I've been constantly thinking about some tests for this as i cannot at the moment justify the cost of the amp. To pass the some time i am heading towards trying a thin piece of iron wire heated to glowing red with a lower power amp & 45.5MHz sine oscillator. So to get moving i found this oscillator circuit. http://www.zl2pd.com/Varicaps.html I built it last night using a yellow core i found in my box of bits but could only get it up to 43MHz and the bias is all wrong at the moment and i had to add a 6.8pf cap in place of C1 to get it oscillating without a tuning cap/diode connected, i suspect my core is wrong, the circuit requires a core with type 6 iron core, but having checked some manufacturers yellow cores are only good for 40MHz. I already bought a 5Watt Zener to try as a varicap and although it tuned really well it dropped my frequency down to 8 MHz. So so far i am in search of a better core and will try some others i already have. I am using a BF245C which is meant to be equivalent to the MP102 The intention is to use a multiturn pot to adjust between 45 &46 MHz ------------------------ Meyer-Mace Isotopic NMR Generator VaricapFigB1.gif (29.53 kB, 1257x685 - viewed 673 times.)

evolvingape	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #93 on: 2015-09-21, 23:01:22 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2502 Everyman decries immorality	Quote from: Peterae on 2015-06-18, 20:30:32 The present invention uses a physical phenomenon that we have identified and we will call "Isotopic Mutation". Description of the physical principle applied to the iron isotope 56: The iron isotope 56 contains 26 protons, 26 electrons and 30 neutrons, its total mass is 56.52 MeV, its actual weight being 55.80 MeV. The difference between the total mass and the actual mass is 0.72 MeV which corresponds to a cohesive energy per nucleon of 0.012857 Mev. Is this correct ? --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs. Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security. Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.

verpies	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #94 on: 2015-09-22, 03:11:50 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3494	Quote from: evolvingape on 2015-09-21, 23:01:22 Is this correct ? I don't think so, but I'm writing from memory and without actual verification of these numbers. This guy had to explain it somehow in the patent or he risked rejection by association with F.E. The theoretical explanation of the effect does not interest me as much as the empirical setup that leads to the effect.

gyula	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #95 on: 2015-09-24, 15:47:46 »
Group: Tech Wizard Hero Member Posts: 1193	Hi Peter, The core type T25-6 is an powdered iron toroidal core and indeed was with yellow colour, permeability is 8 only, working frequency is up to 50 MHz, as per written in this link: http://www.amidoncorp.com/t25-6/ I found this ebay offer if you wish to buy the core type T25-6 (unless it is cheaper at the above amidon USA link with the postage): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-T25-6-Micrometal-Torroid-Yellow-0-25-Dia-Ham-Radio-/360318889148?hash=item53e4adecbc Because the 12 turns gives 0.4 uH inductance on this core, for 45 MHz frequency the tuning capacitor, C1 should be around 31.3 pF if the LC circuit would be separated from the rest of the circuit (neglecting the tap), see the schematic what I edited to separate the LC tank from the circuit. The jFET BF245C has a typical 4 pF gate-source capacitance and this is reduced to roughly 3 pF by the series 10 pF coupling capacitor, this 3 pF adds to C1 at point B (with respect to ground) when connected. At point A the additional capacitor value comes from the value of the varicap because the series 100 nF coupling capacitor is a short circuit at 45 MHz. This means that the capacitor value of the varicap must be in the some pF range, say you could make it variable between 5 pF and 6 pF then you would have to reduce C1 to (31.3 - 3 - 6) = 22 pF So it all depends on the 0.4 uH what the 12 turn winding would give on the original core and mainly on the varicap type. If you had two varicaps in the max 10-12pF range, then you could replace the 100 nF capacitor with the second varicap I indicated in the schematic and perhaps reduce C1 a little if needed or maybe reduce the total number of turns to 10 (tap may remain at the 3rd turn). If you do not wish to use a 2nd varicap, then simply replace the 100 nF cap with a say 7 to 30 pF ceramic cap, this gives you a range to trim the effect of your 5 Watt Zener or other diodes biased in reverse. Gyula ------------------------ Meyer-Mace Isotopic NMR Generator VaricapFigB1.jpg (87.61 kB, 1257x685 - viewed 622 times.)

Peterae	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #96 on: 2015-09-24, 18:18:32 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3959	Thanks very much for your time & help gyula nice find on the ebay core I did gather some cores that were laying around and i thought i had found a yellow one but what i have only just realized is the turns count changes for a given inductance when the size of the core changes, so as soon as i can get down my workshop i will try a few toroid's i have and if all else fails i will buy the eBay ones. Thanks Peter

evolvingape	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #97 on: 2015-09-26, 21:12:24 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2502 Everyman decries immorality	Quote from: verpies on 2015-09-22, 03:11:50 I don't think so, but I'm writing from memory and without actual verification of these numbers. This guy had to explain it somehow in the patent or he risked rejection by association with F.E. The theoretical explanation of the effect does not interest me as much as the empirical setup that leads to the effect. Thanks for the explanation, and the good job you have done on bringing this potential technology to light. There is something really bugging me about this project and I just cannot figure out what it is.. hate it when that happens! I am watching the OUR team progress on this as my gut feeling is it has potential --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs. Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security. Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.

Peterae	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #98 on: 2015-09-26, 21:36:33 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3959	Well i am certain inducted decay can happen in Nitrogen, hence the blackended bulb in your car transmutes Nitrogen to Carbon and if we could get a metal transmuted we know the energy release is there just a matter of proving it, which with me could take some time

evolvingape	Re: Meyer-Mace Isotropic NMR Generator « Reply #99 on: 2015-09-26, 21:47:07 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2502 Everyman decries immorality	Yes I believe it is possible also, finding the correct empirical setup that leads to the effect as verpies pointed out is going to be critical to success. I find myself nodding along with you fellas as I read this thread, I really think you are onto something! --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs. Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security. Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.

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