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Author Topic: Some "New" Observations  (Read 304000 times)
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Now for a few questions:

I don't see any electrical connections to the "collector". Specific instruction are to file the ends flat, but no mention of connections. Do you have any idea where the power was to be taken, as the implication is that the "phonons" are racing around the collector and being accelerated by the drive windings. He seems to imply that the collector is merely the catalyst that creates the ultrasonic shock wave.

Also several people seem to have submitted pictures of their builds. Have you had any contact with the other individuals or any further info on the device and how Michael came to his conclusions of how it might work?
There are two flat collector coils and load connected to their outer ends, inner ends left not connected (please see attached drawing).

I would say this were a typical FE affair. Michael was doing research for many years. He was showing what he got on forum. Then one day he got some interesting results. As usual there were skeptical people and some paid trolls. They attacked Michael. He removed all original posts.
Then after some time he reconsider his decision and opened new topic and started  describing how to replicate what he did step by step.
So this is contents of pdf I shared (with junk posts removed).  There were great interest, many people started building device. Again there were very strong opposition, even stronger than first time. Many people said that he should not make device public etc etc. Personal attacks and so on. For one Michael's post there were tens or hundreds junk posts. After some time Michael gave up.

   

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I am bumping this thread because after reading some of the concepts of Vasik's paper concerning the work of Michael (Mimo) I think it would benefit from some discussion. I am in the process of giving the paper a careful read, picking out some points of interest. Discussion welcome.

paper here: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=302.msg61310#msg61310

I am particularly interested in the point that there does not seem to be any electrical connection to the "collector" and that at least one end of the collector needs to be ground and polished flat.

Also the idea that the toroid cores produce a magnetic beam that exits the cores and enhances the effect in the collector.

To Vasik: apologies for not paying more attention to the paper, at the time many of us were focused on the Thoneman patent.
              Has anyone translated the .asm files to English?

Maybe this investigation deserves it's own thread?

P.S. Happy Birthday to Mike  :), who might take interest in  the hand drawn schematic, as it resembles some of his work!

Thanks Ion

Yes there are some similarities.

I have been looking at the spectrum of the products of the base, 3rd and 9th harmonics of the 3 frequency drive, and wow is the only word. No power to the mosfets atm, just what are the reactions when they come together (or nearly together).

It is quite something to watch, there is a continual movement of frequencies until they get close and build to a spike, then die away again. Is this the kick? this happens right up into the MHz, my SA goes up to 60MHz.

Ion, can you do skype or a another video link? I would like to show you live.

Regards

Mike 8)


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I was just browsing through this thread last night,and woke up this morning with an odd idea.
Probably no good to anyone in regards to how the TPU work's,but i went ahead and built it anyway--just to see what would happen.

So the idea is to take a length of thick copper wire(in this case the core wire is 1mm),and wrap that length of wire with a smaller gauge wire(in this case .55mm)

As there is over 1000 turns to make,i decided to throw together a quick motor driven winder--first pic.
It has a motor at one end,and a bearing head at the other,which allows the core wire to rotate with the motor.

Last pic shows the winding in progress--it worked better than i had hoped  O0


Second pic-I then took this wrapped combination,and wrapped it around a toroid core.
The core is one i made myself using DEVCON liquid metal.

The .55mm wire(the wire wrapped around the 1mm core wire)has a 1 ohm CSR on the ground side(ch2 blue chanel). CH1 is across the CSR and .55mm coil.
The inner core wire has a 1 ohm CSR across it,and CH3 is showing the signal across the core winding.

I was not expecting anything to happen,but was surprised at the results.

1st scope shot shows all 3 traces,where the(what we will call)secondary (CH3) shows the RMS value across the 1 ohm load resistor,and the calculated P/in. The P/in value is on the high side,as the voltage trace (CH1) also includes the voltage across the 1 ohm CSR.

The second scope shot shows P/in when the 1 ohm load resistor is removed from the core winding.
Oddly enough,the P/in go's down very little when the load is removed.

Best results are had around 532KHz,which is what the scope shot tests are run at. But the effect starts as low as 50KHz.

Perhaps the poynting vector field plays a part in this?

This was just a quick throw together DUT.
As you can tell,the winding around the toroid is not very neat(it was getting close to 45*C in the work shop at the time),and the toroid core it self is of poor quality.
I also think a longer core wire with more turns of the smaller outer wire around it,and more turns of the combination wires around a good ferrite toroid would result in a far greater efficiency.

I believe this system could produce much better results if more time was taken with it.

I was looking for a way to accelerate the electrons,and this idea just popped up.
Probably not doing as intended,but i am surprised at how efficient the transfer of electrical energy is from primary to secondary in this winding configuration.

It may be of some use,it may not,but this is what i got from the quick build and test.


Brad


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Ah ah ah ah Brad, great minds think alike! :) I had the same idea 3 or 4 years ago when I tried to experiment in NMR: I wrapped a thin wire around a large copper conductor to produce a very uniform magnetic field all along (see photo).
This didn't work, but now that I'm better equipped with modern generator and scope, maybe I should start testing again.

Since then, I have found an interesting paper at the IEEE: "Vector Potential Coil and Transformer" (pdf). See attached image.
There the central wire is only used to return the current of the thin wire, which cancels the magnetic field in the center of the cylinder supporting the large winding. The solenoid wound around the cylinder plays for the vector potential the same role that an ordinary coil plays for the magnetic field:
we have a linear "A" along the axis of the cylinder and by placing a co-linear conductor, we can measure a voltage at its terminals.
By shielding the measuring conductor with a metal thicker than the skin effect, the author further shows that "A" is indeed unmaskable.

But there is a big flaw in their reasoning: there is always a helical magnetic field around the cylinder, created by the thin wire around the thicker.
The measuring loop passing through the inside of the cylinder, its surface cuts the flux of the helical magnetic field at each turn of the solenoid around the large cylinder. We have a measurement loop whose surface cuts a variable flux, hence the measured EMF, so everything can also be explained in a conventional way with the magnetic field instead of the vector potential.

However, we see that this topology allows new ways of manipulating fields and electrons, so I think you have an interesting subject to pursue.


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Ah ah ah ah Brad, great minds think alike! :) I had the same idea 3 or 4 years ago when I tried to experiment in NMR: I wrapped a thin wire around a large copper conductor to produce a very uniform magnetic field all along (see photo).
This didn't work, but now that I'm better equipped with modern generator and scope, maybe I should start testing again.

Since then, I have found an interesting paper at the IEEE: "Vector Potential Coil and Transformer" (pdf). See attached image.
There the central wire is only used to return the current of the thin wire, which cancels the magnetic field in the center of the cylinder supporting the large winding. The solenoid wound around the cylinder plays for the vector potential the same role that an ordinary coil plays for the magnetic field:
we have a linear "A" along the axis of the cylinder and by placing a co-linear conductor, we can measure a voltage at its terminals.
By shielding the measuring conductor with a metal thicker than the skin effect, the author further shows that "A" is indeed unmaskable.

But there is a big flaw in their reasoning: there is always a helical magnetic field around the cylinder, created by the thin wire around the thicker.
The measuring loop passing through the inside of the cylinder, its surface cuts the flux of the helical magnetic field at each turn of the solenoid around the large cylinder. We have a measurement loop whose surface cuts a variable flux, hence the measured EMF, so everything can also be explained in a conventional way with the magnetic field instead of the vector potential.

However, we see that this topology allows new ways of manipulating fields and electrons, so I think you have an interesting subject to pursue.

Perhaps more suited to your Electromagnetic Archimed's screw thread ?.


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OK, I'm going to put this here as it comes under the title of this thread.

The attached is real bench work as some do know, a partly working TPU is on my bench but has some problems that I am trying to sort out, mainly of frequency stability and a form of feeding back.

Please heed the warning at the end as I have been suffering after working on this, I think it is body static buildup.

Regards

Mike 8)


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Please heed the warning at the end as I have been suffering after working on this, I think it is body static buildup.

Regards

Mike 8)
Hi Mike,
I second that,  I've encountered episodes of dizziness and sick feelings in my chase of the elusive TPU myself,  I didn't want to think it was coming from the TPU's but you confirm that.  I always felt better after turning them off, so everyone be aware of this.
Room 


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@Centraflow

Related to the Nunnerley's paper: I'm not sure that the extra electrons on a capacitor plate can go faster than all the other free electrons. The contrary is even suggested by the fact that we do not know how to distinguish the ones from the others, their role surely changes according to their positions and the obstacles encountered in the metal during their circulation, related to the resistance of the conductor.

So if they do not go faster, then the displacement of the electric field should be made extremely slow to be compatible with the speed of the electrons in a conductor (at most a few mm/s).


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@Centraflow

Related to the Nunnerley's paper: I'm not sure that the extra electrons on a capacitor plate can go faster than all the other free electrons. The contrary is even suggested by the fact that we do not know how to distinguish the ones from the others, their role surely changes according to their positions and the obstacles encountered in the metal during their circulation, related to the resistance of the conductor.

So if they do not go faster, then the displacement of the electric field should be made extremely slow to be compatible with the speed of the electrons in a conductor (at most a few mm/s).

Hi F6FLT

Thanks for your comments, the paper and centraflow are one of the same (G6GVA is my UK call sign).

Well I see it as a sort of race track where each positive plate which is supplying the electrons, is sling shooting around the track at an ever-increasing frequency by the harmonics created by the relation of the inputs. This may also be done by one frequency but with 3 phases 120º out of phase with one another. This can create additive harmonics (triplens) and high current in the negative plate.

But I am not sure atm if the output seen is due to vortex type input of charge from the Earth/Ionosphere electrical charge, or the creation of high current in the neutral along with a voltage boost in the positive. I lean towards the former, at least we know there is a charge between Earth and Ionosphere, and maybe this is how we can draw from it, electrostatically, time will tell.

73's

Mike 8)


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Hi F6FLT

Thanks for your comments, the paper and centraflow are one of the same (G6GVA is my UK call sign).

Well I see it as a sort of race track where each positive plate which is supplying the electrons, is sling shooting around the track at an ever-increasing frequency by the harmonics created by the relation of the inputs. This may also be done by one frequency but with 3 phases 120º out of phase with one another. This can create additive harmonics (triplens) and high current in the negative plate.
...

Hi mike,

Great! I see that there are many ham radios meeting around exotic experiments on energy. The radio experimentation that surely motivated our vocation must no longer be enough for us!  :)

If the principle is to move charges by the quasi-electrostatic influence of a moving field, there should be many ways to do so, like the one you indicated with 3 phases. Two phases could also be used: two crossed electric fields with signals of the same frequency but in quadrature (in the same way as the needle of a compass can be rotated with crossed magnetic fields in quadrature). I had already tried that unsuccessfully but quickly. Your diagram encourages me to go back to it, this kind of setup should work, I don't see anything theoretical that would prevent it.

However, I do not believe at all that the charges of the atmosphere or the ionosphere act here in any way.

73
François

« Last Edit: 2019-02-01, 11:51:13 by F6FLT »


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Quote:
Great! I see that there are many ham radios meeting around exotic experiments on energy.

Unquote

Ha Ha, low sunspot activity may be ;)

If not the charge between Earth and Ionosphere, then that leaves the Earth's magnetic field because it is not NMR, and from my results, it seems to be very static active to the point of feeling ill.

I have my test rig running but unstable, one minute running great and then the output drops to near half. Twice I have blown the low-frequency gate driver, I am now going over everything before going on with testing, soldering SMD driver chips is not fun. :'(

Regards

Mike 8)

PS the quadratura idea is interesting for a simpler setup :-\



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Both the TPU and several UFO's (sound recordings per Paul Hill) share a 5kHz frequency.
   
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Both the TPU and several singers (sound recordings per Spotify) share a 5kHz frequency.
 C.C


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I realized that if we move electrons with a moving field influencing excessive charges between capacitor plates, as in the Centraflow scheme, then yes, it should work, but it's not necessarily detectable.

Suppose we have the equivalent of a charge in a capacity of 1nF at 100v, i.e. Q=C.U=10-7 C, and we move this charge with our moving field at a speed of the order of magnitude of the electrons in a conductor, e.g. 1mm/s. That gives us a current of 10-10 A = 0.1 nA!
So in practice, we won't see anything.
This difference compared to a "normal" current in a conductor is considerable, because in a conductor there are as many free electrons as there are atoms, this number is considerable, whereas in a capacitor, the number of charges that can be stored is in comparison extremely low.
A common current of 1 A is 1 Coulomb/s. But to have 1 C in a 1 nF capacitor, you would need a voltage of 1 billion volts!

 For the purpose indicated, it is therefore necessary that the conductor allows a considerably higher drift velocity of the electrons, to obtain common currents by compensating the low number of electrons by the speed. I don't see how.
Even if we could think that the drift velocity is larger on the surface of a conductor than in the bulk, this remains to be demonstrated, it is still a factor 109 that is at stake, which seems utopian to me.
We can also think that by moving the field faster, the electrons will go faster. Probably, but to what limit? Is there not a risk of losing them quickly because they will no longer be able to follow the field because of the resistance of the conductor?




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It's turtles all the way down
Electrons already move at Fermi velocity from thermal noise in a conductor without current flow. With current flow they grind to a near halt at um/sec (e.g. for 1 ampere flow).

Perhaps the trick is to accelerate the electrons in the conductor without trying to close the circuit as this creates a current which puts some braking effect on electrons. Or perhaps accelerate the free charge which could possibly drag the electrons along.

Other possibility is to find a way to null the effect of the current so the electrons can continue to float freely. (per SM)

The idea would be that the high speed electrons are a catalyst, a means to an end but not to be tapped directly, rather collect the effects of high speed electrons engaging in random high speed collisions which can emit charged particles.

Maybe this is why it was called a "collector"

I would like to explore these areas, however misguided, as I have failed at all of my other ideas including all attempts at replicating others OU ideas.


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Perhaps the trick is to accelerate the electrons in the conductor without trying to close the circuit as this creates a current which puts some braking effect on electrons. Or perhaps accelerate the free charge which could possibly drag the electrons along.

Other possibility is to find a way to null the effect of current so the electrons can continue to float freely.


Charged particles can be accelerated with a changing magnetic field via the Lorentz force.  The greater and faster this change, the larger the impact.

If there is also a static magnetic field present, these accelerated particles should then be deflected into spiral orbits around that static B field (this is also Lorentz force but from the POV of the charged particle).


With the right configuration, this might allow charge to be built-up in space faster than it would be naturally dissipated.
That would lead to relativistic effects which should provide several pathways to synthesizing energy.

Or not, I'm still spitballing here.C.C C.C    Although like other builders, one of my TPU's did turn out to be a migraine headache generator. ???
« Last Edit: 2019-02-02, 05:15:23 by Reiyuki »


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The Lorentz force only deflects charges that already have a velocity v. The speed module does not change, only its direction. It is an acceleration in the sense that their speed does not remain constant but only in direction. Lorentz's force does not provide energy. The energy is supplied only by the source that forces the electrons to go at velocity v.


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...
Perhaps the trick is to accelerate the electrons in the conductor without trying to close the circuit as this creates a current which puts some braking effect on electrons.

This occurs when the voltage at the input of a coil is rapidly increased. The current begins to flow when at the other end it does not yet come out.
But in my opinion even this incoming current is subject to the resistance of the conductor.
If this were not the case, then a current at the input of a coil would produce less thermal energy in a coil if it is square than if it is continuous, for the same rms value. It's doubtful, but maybe it's worth checking out.
There was a similar device made by Rosemary Ainslie, who claimed on the contrary that the thermal energy generated in a resistive coil by a variable current was higher than the energy put at the input. On ou.com TK has demonstrated beyond any doubt her measurement errors but I don't know if we could conclude that the opposite would be true.

Quote
Other possibility is to find a way to null the effect of the current so the electrons can continue to float freely. (per SM)

The idea would be that the high speed electrons are a catalyst, a means to an end but not to be tapped directly, rather collect the effects of high speed electrons engaging in random high speed collisions which can emit charged particles.
...

This way has been already explored with plasma at a low pressure or with an electronic beam in a vacuum tube.


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It's turtles all the way down
F6FLT said:

Quote
This way has been already explored with plasma at a low pressure or with an electronic beam in a vacuum tube.

Some of us worked diligently to reproduce the effect described in the Thonemann patent, to no avail.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=302.400

I would be interested in your findings on the subject.

Regards


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F6FLT said:

Some of us worked diligently to reproduce the effect described in the Thonemann patent, to no avail.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=302.400

I would be interested in your findings on the subject.

Regards

Well ion you just blew my mind on that patent, I had not seen that before or can't remember due to other things on my plate.

Regards

Mike 8)


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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Linear_accelerator_animation_16frames_1.6sec.gif/550px-Linear_accelerator_animation_16frames_1.6sec.gif

Coils change sign between charge and discharge, and what if the coil is also one plate of a capacitor?

Regards

Mike 8)


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It's turtles all the way down
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Linear_accelerator_animation_16frames_1.6sec.gif/550px-Linear_accelerator_animation_16frames_1.6sec.gif

Coils change sign between charge and discharge, and what if the coil is also one plate of a capacitor?

Regards

Mike 8)

That's a very nice illustration, wish I had used it when I started the "Uniderectional acceleration of electrons" thread.

I'm trying to prove on the bench that the capacitor tubes can also be bifilar wire alternately  or quadrature switched, ends not connected.

I have tried something like this with an iron wire core, but need to rethink my failed experiment.

Regards


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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Linear_accelerator_animation_16frames_1.6sec.gif/550px-Linear_accelerator_animation_16frames_1.6sec.gif

You guys always find such cool links ;D O0

I wonder, wouldn't a very fast chirp-wave/ramped wave create this same effect in a long solenoid coil (ie: Tesla coil secondary)?


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Some of us worked diligently to reproduce the effect described in the Thonemann patent, to no avail.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=302.400

I would be interested in your findings on the subject.

Regards

The overall idea of the Thonemann patent sounds interesting but the implementation seems complicated.

From what I understand, the temporal variation of the magnetic field of each winding creates eddy currents in the plasma, and these ionic current loops are accelerated by the spatial magnetic field gradient from one section to the next.
So we have to make the temporal aspect, the spatial aspect, and the linear velocity work together. It is not a small job!

Do I understand correctly or am I completely missing the question?


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Thonemann's method uses a magnetic field:

The invention is based on the phenomenon that the progressive magnetic held of a travelling wave (for example the travelling wave produced in a loaded transmission line or by spaced coils excited in different phases) exerts a unidirectional drag upon electrons in the field and that conversely a unidirectional motion of electrons tends to produce or enhance a travelling wave.

This reminds me of the oscillating ring things I looked at many years ago.  They were similar but without the gas tube.

I don't see any way there could be a mechanism for gain.
   
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