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Author Topic: current limiting capacitive battery charger (Read 35492 times)

Duncan	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #50 on: 2015-04-29, 07:53:25 »
Hero Member Posts: 702	Thanks for the information Aking I'm still constructing fast switching output to basically replicate that original experiment but with LA battery and ground connection, I do have a Max038 based FG that I built some time ago that I may be able to cannibalise and put to use with a loop of some sort. I don’t really think LA batteries are the correct conversion tool anyway but to establish in peoples minds that there are two very distinct types of resonance and that series resonance makes a huge difference to batteries is a giant leap forward. Of course I was tongue in cheek poking a jibe at what Clarence calls 'The Measurists' and I did watch T K s video with loop antenna's (very nice TK) of course two very big differences are TK is running parallel resonance which he quite rightly describes as like a swing. And much more importantly is using an external power supply. . Zero point switching is a simple economical way to resonance but I want to 'mess about' with this for a while its all part of the fun and frolic … As for the tubes Aking here’s a slightly better picture of one, there's also a bit of documentation and with any luck one of our Russian speaking members might be kind enough to translate the important bits for us http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/DSCF0006.JPG http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/russian.jpeg Kind regards Duncan --------------------------- How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ? http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf whilst we know little .. friends remember, In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. D. Erasmus

Allcanadian	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #51 on: 2015-04-30, 07:16:58 »
Hero Member Posts: 2735	@Smudge Quote Now current that lags voltage is a feature of inductive reactance, so the cells will exhibit inductance-like characteristics. And with a series capacitance there will be a resonance. Maybe this is obvious to those who have experimented with cells, but it was not obvious to me until I had my brainwave. The fact that the resonance is associated with ionic movement could explain why it is so variable since electrochemistry comes into play as well as the plate separation distance. And the time delay is related to voltage across the plates so it is not like any old inductance, it is a special form of inductance-like characteristic. I just wanted to comment on what you said because it seems very strange to me now. I know in Power Engineering we learned all about motor/generator/electronics theory etc.. in depth and later on I did much more research and practical work on my own. However at some point a few years back all the things I learned simply stopped making sense, if that makes any sense. It relates to my work with a unified theory and Primary Physics where we simply discard all the generalized if not vague terms such as "reactance" and describe what is actually happening. It is the same however instead of saying current lags voltage we say the the charge density changes before charge flow which describes a real event rather than the tendency to describe what a measuring instrument such as an oscilloscope might show us. Charge density changes before charge flow due to self-induction. As I said it seems very strange now because I read what people are saying and they seem to be describing the measured event as if it were a real world event. As if to say due to inductive reactance this current waveform must lag the voltage waveform. In nature there is no inductance or reactance or waveforms and charge density changes before charge flow due to the changing magnetic field inducing the conductor. It is almost as if everyone has created a very complex system of terms, equations and descriptions which do not really describe what is actually happening in reality. I understand what your saying and agree 100% it's just that when I started seeing everything for what it is on the most fundamental level I learned so much so fast I'm still trying to make sense of it. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

Aking.21	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #52 on: 2015-05-01, 01:41:42 »
Sr. Member Posts: 420	I think this comment by Tinsel Koala on the Tesla car thread is most relevant also: Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015-04-27, 23:10:04 "I" is current, not inductance. I don't know why we use "I" for current in Ohm's Law but there it is. V=IR, etc. But yes, the current and voltage in the loop are much higher than the input DC current and voltage. But this is reactive power stored in a tank circuit. Some people have tried to call this "overunity in VARS", most notably the QEG promoters of "Fix The World" who somehow believe that this can be put to use. It can, but it is not "overunity" since you cannot extract power from the circuit faster than it is being replaced by the power supply, or the tank power will collapse. Just the same as pushing a child on a swing. Small pushes can build up quite high swing amplitudes and sustain those high amplitudes, but if you put a drag on the swing or try to take power out faster than you are supplying it, the amplitude will decrease or even stop swinging. This is not "apparent" voltage and current, either, it is very real, since it has electromagnetic effects and even ohmic effects, heating the caps (sometimes) significantly and the loop itself slightly. Perhaps you will be interested in this video playlist, where I illustrate this "overunity in VARs" for the benefit of the believers in the QEG. These are the videos and measurements that the PESN people accused me of faking, but there is no fakery here at all, and the circuit is known and published and anyone can build it and test it for themselves for less than 20 dollars in parts. The first video, that caused all the fuss and accusations of fakery at PESN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xuXBHJcNsk Nothing is faked, everything is just as you see it in the video. I'm making the output power measurement just as the FTW people did in their "Morocco has overunity" video, except that they used a storebought current transformer for current sensing and I used an improvised one, and neither of us made correction for any possible phase shift introduced by the current sense method itself. The rest of the playlist where power extraction, both LV and HV, is shown, and also the whole thing is explained: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLml9VdOeqKa-k7J7vO_I22fVc-h8wcdLf So here we have an admission that the power (current and voltage) can be amplified. Our task is to get it out. Why? Because we know it's there. --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Duncan	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #53 on: 2015-05-03, 06:13:19 »
Hero Member Posts: 702	oh dear Smudge I seem to have spent hours reading through pages of a forum dedicated only to batteries .. (and people think I'm sad messing about with FE forums) anyway obviously what you detect as a 'special inductance' I want to try and understand more about 'what you see' That being because I desperately want to stabilise the effect instead of it being 'will O' the wisp' I wonder if there's a book or web page you might direct me to . For some reason the theory of electron cluster (as in thermionic valves) is nagging at my sub conscious , Anyway whatever you offer will be appreciated. around this area there seems many ways the same subject is taught to each 'skill set' that's required to practically 'do something' I'm sure there's a reason for that .. a not very nice reason kind regards Duncan --------------------------- How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ? http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf whilst we know little .. friends remember, In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. D. Erasmus

Smudge	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #54 on: 2015-05-03, 09:59:55 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1940	Hi Duncan, Not at my home computer right now so haven't got access to all my files. I am not a battery expert but I do know the difference between electron/ion movement in vacuum as in thermionic valves and ion movement through liquid or gas. In the latter case the ions travel at some terminal velocity due to friction (collisions?) with the atoms whereas in vacuum there is no friction and the ions accelerate. That is under the influence of an electric field that is supplying the force. It is that slow movement that interests me with regard to the electro-chemistry. By simply applying the time delay to a sudden application of a charging voltage, then terminating the voltage at that delay period, it seems to me that the chemical changes take place before the full establishment of ion current flow. If a series of voltage pulses can produce the chemical changes without any appreciable current flow then that is some form of overunity. I think the pulse approach is the way to go, but since a delayed current with respect to a changing voltage is an inductive effect, tuning that inductance with a capacitor and using AC should also exhibit OU. Perhaps the battery acts more like a transmission line and that should be the way to create an equivalent circuit. More later when I get home tomorrow. P.S. If the charging process can be made OU by using the slow ion movement then so can the discharge process. Has anyone ever tried discharging a battery by a succession of short discharge pulses, using some clever circuitry to turn the pulses back into useful (DC?) electricity. That should be a simple way of determining OU if the DC power output is measured over time to far exceed the ampere-hours (times voltage) of the battery. Smudge

Centraflow	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #55 on: 2015-05-03, 11:17:45 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Quote P.S. If the charging process can be made OU by using the slow ion movement then so can the discharge process. Has anyone ever tried discharging a battery by a succession of short discharge pulses, using some clever circuitry to turn the pulses back into useful (DC?) electricity. That should be a simple way of determining OU if the DC power output is measured over time to far exceed the ampere-hours (times voltage) of the battery. Smudge Hi Smudge. That has been something that I have been doing in my SMD electrolysis, collecting emitted electrons from chemical change and reusing on a third electrode for hydrogen production. Sort of got side tracked as there is so much going on in the reaction (very complex reaction) of the second electrode, that it is difficult to see exactly what is taking place. I am sure I am getting down to atomic (atom) change and producing other elements, the latter has been shown by SEM results which can't be explained any other way. The very basic SMD setup is easy to do and fascinating to watch, but when you start manipulating parts of the system with pulses other than the very slow change over of the primary function (3 electrodes, one an anode, 2 a change over electrode and 3 a hydrogen producing electrode driven from the collected electrons in either another battery or supper caps), things start to show more reaction than normal electrolysis when considering hydrogen production only (oxygen used up in chemical change liberating the electrons at electrode 2). SMD was started as another way to produce hydrogen from water after I was stopped from doing it with multiple frequency (RF), but it all starts to come down to the same thing in the end, breaking the back of the bond between hydrogen and oxygen. Let me explain, take a long piece of wood, at one end apply an up and down frequency, at the other end apply another frequency different than the first. By adjusting one of the frequencies you could find a resonance between the two that will break the wood in the middle Finding those frequencies is difficult, so I thought, until one day it struck me how to do it automatically, the basic outline I have posted yesterday on Peters salt water to gasoline thread this I have known about since 1989 but took me a lot longer to work out how to do it simply, feed back, as in a microphone infront of a speaker, the water sample is between the two but using RF not audio frequencies. Certain frequencies are absorbed into the salt water and the rest pass through to the receiver and looped back to the transmitter. The system becomes self learning as it works I would think a similar thing could happen with charging a battery with pulses of high magnitude and having a feed back to the pulse generator, this is conjecture on my behalf, but I think it would be a good idea regards Mike « Last Edit: 2015-05-03, 15:05:47 by Centraflow » --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

evolvingape	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #56 on: 2015-05-03, 17:15:09 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2502 Everyman decries immorality	Quote from: Centraflow on 2015-05-03, 11:17:45 I would think a similar thing could happen with charging a battery with pulses of high magnitude and having a feed back to the pulse generator, this is conjecture on my behalf, but I think it would be a good idea An electrolysis type system is a phase change processor which converts a liquid to a gas via electricity. The use of resonant vibration frequencies to reduce the energy required to break the bonds is therefore of great importance to the efficiency of the gas fuel generation process. A battery and charging system on the other hand is an energy storage device, with acceptable efficiency already. Series resonance charging with electrical pulses can only increase the efficiency of the battery charging cycle. No evidence has been presented of an observed phenomena that indicates excess energy is being produced by this process, therefore no hypothesis can be proffered for investigation other than COP<1. http://evbatterymonitoring.com/webhelp/section_3.htm The overall system efficiency is the efficiency with which the power line energy (50 kilowatt-hours) is converted to energy delivered to the load (32 kilowatt-hours): 32 - 50 100 = 64 %. This figure duplicates the overall system efficiency calculated from the two factors, charger efficiency and battery efficiency: 84% 76% = 64%. --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs. Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security. Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.

Centraflow	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #57 on: 2015-05-03, 17:28:41 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Quote from: evolvingape on 2015-05-03, 17:15:09 An electrolysis type system is a phase change processor which converts a liquid to a gas via electricity. The use of resonant vibration frequencies to reduce the energy required to break the bonds is therefore of great importance to the efficiency of the gas fuel generation process. A battery and charging system on the other hand is an energy storage device, with acceptable efficiency already. Series resonance charging with electrical pulses can only increase the efficiency of the battery charging cycle. No evidence has been presented of an observed phenomena that indicates excess energy is being produced by this process, therefore no hypothesis can be proffered for investigation other than COP<1. http://evbatterymonitoring.com/webhelp/section_3.htm The overall system efficiency is the efficiency with which the power line energy (50 kilowatt-hours) is converted to energy delivered to the load (32 kilowatt-hours): 32 - 50 100 = 64 %. This figure duplicates the overall system efficiency calculated from the two factors, charger efficiency and battery efficiency: 84% 76% = 64%. This is correct, it is only conjecture on my behalf that a self monitoring resonant system would be far better at charging at speed and low energy input. The chemical change would happen at low input and fast rate. regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Allcanadian	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #58 on: 2015-05-03, 17:29:07 »
Hero Member Posts: 2735	hello Mike Quote Finding those frequencies is difficult, so I thought, until one day it struck me how to do it automatically, the basic outline I have posted yesterday on Peters salt water to gasoline thread Smiley this I have known about since 1989 but took me a lot longer to work out how to do it simply, feed back, as in a microphone infront of a speaker, the water sample is between the two but using RF not audio frequencies. Certain frequencies are absorbed into the salt water and the rest pass through to the receiver and looped back to the transmitter. The system becomes self learning as it works I would agree this is the way to go and I have been building auto-resonant circuits for many years now. Trying to hunt down the right frequency is just too time consuming and trying to hold that frequency even more so. The latest circuits listen for the output and adjust the input accordingly to follow the resonant condition however it also changes the frequency periodically and looks to see if the magnitude of the output has increased or decreased. If the output increases in magnitude it keeps changing in that direction until it decreases always seeking the highest magnitude resonant condition. It beats the hell out of tuning and measuring which is just to time consuming and I basically hit the start button and it does the rest. As you say a device which can learn and has some kind of inherent intelligence is the easier option. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

Duncan	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #59 on: 2015-05-04, 05:27:22 »
Hero Member Posts: 702	AC how true automatic does it for me! Mike very nice reading you again , It seems a long time ago I engaged on that water fracture system with you and yes I whole heartedly agree with your conjecture and also feel there is a relationship. Considering the water fracture system based on a x6 f displacement I had envisioned f1+ f2 heterodyne ad infinitum in time and space with each subsequent mixing free of collision. Having its own space so to speak and thus expending no, or very little, energy (nothings perfect) Of course the f1-f2 is also present (or should that be increasingly absent? ) and so I found myself considering the mute question what might be bigger an infinite amount of the infinitesimal or an infinitesimal amount of the whole. There is no absolute scale of size in the Universe, for it is boundless towards the great and also boundless towards the small. Oliver Heaviside I suppose in its crudest form I have just described the two different resonances series and parallel. I'm not certain where evolvingape gets the impression that COP>1 is being discussed oh golly gosh dear oh dear no, perish the thought! only capacitive battery charging and its remarkable ability to restore batteries. Anyway such circuits as I have come across that could be adapted in one way or another to automatically track series resonance are here for consideration The first gentleman for a haircut is this example used to hold a Tesla coil resonant regardless of ambient changes http://danstrother.com/elysium/ The second is this zero voltage switching arrangement shown in its simplest form in this induction heater http://www.rmcybernetics.com/projects/DIY_Devices/diy-induction-heater.htm Then of course there's the Meissner/Armstrong circuit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgSdjOsEkqs current limiting capacitive battery charger I like simple so zero voltage switching pulls my string any reason why not ? I would be interested in what anyone see's as the merits of these circuits and just why Dan has gone many steps further for his Tesla coil control when at first glance zero voltage switching is doing much the same job. kind regards Duncan « Last Edit: 2015-05-04, 08:07:16 by Duncan » --------------------------- How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ? http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf whilst we know little .. friends remember, In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. D. Erasmus

forest	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #60 on: 2015-05-04, 08:33:17 »
Sr. Member Posts: 472	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvWeqvyh3NA&feature=em-subs_digest

Aking.21	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #61 on: 2015-05-04, 22:16:29 »
Sr. Member Posts: 420	Duncan: Yes there are many forms of Tesla coils in addition: Slayer, Kacher etc. But they all (virtually all) suffer from interference from the electric field. So you go anywhere near them and their frequency alters as does their power output and input draw. Even their own streamers interfere with the electric field - so keeping them at their resonant frequency for any length of time is virtually impossible. (As it is with the 3BS and keeping the resonant frequency of a battery.) So enter that famous PLL ( Phase locked loop) which is a devil of a construction job but ensures that neither homo sapiens, dog, cat or streamer can interfere with that "holy" condition of perfect resonance. That's why Dan the perfectionist went to all that trouble. Yes I hate it too. ps feel free to mention COP >1 anytime you wish. It's called free speech. COP >1 there - I mentioned it. « Last Edit: 2015-05-04, 23:04:01 by Aking.21 » --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

e2matrix	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #62 on: 2015-05-05, 03:22:15 »
Sr. Member Posts: 345	Fortunately there are a lot of IC chips made for PLL that can (more or less) simplifiy the use of PLL. The mention of PLL which I believe is one of the keys to an COP > 1 design reminded me of a circuit I built some time ago. While the chips I'm showing here have PLL their primary function is something else. I built about half this circuit from a magazine but it didn't do all I needed so I designed the rest of it myself. Brownie point for anyone who can name the chip that uses PLL. Big Gold star for anyone who can guess what this circuit does (this is mostly for TK who probably thinks I've never built anything) COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1COP > 1 ------------------------ current limiting capacitive battery charger Dscn3661.jpg (1824.43 kB, 4482x2676 - viewed 1016 times.) current limiting capacitive battery charger DSCN3665.JPG (537.49 kB, 2160x1152 - viewed 866 times.)

Duncan	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #63 on: 2015-05-05, 08:31:30 »
Hero Member Posts: 702	Ah the joys of veroboard ! you have obviously spent hours wrestling with it ! Seems as hard as I try with that stuff it still looks like a rats nest! Having said that there's some great stuff that’s been designed and built on it by others. My sight forces me to work very slowly with the stuff which hasn't always been so I find it very frustrating that what once took an hour now takes a day and looks like a dogs dinner. Thanks for the information re Tesla coils A.king I haven't messed with them much but I was pretty much aware of those variables. I was really just wondering how much of an advantage the time and trouble of building a PLL would offer over one of the simpler circuits. (Zero voltage switching) I have in the past worked on UHF hand held transceivers and tuned to very sharp resonance curves which I found something very like finding the resonance points on a lead acid battery. Sharp and difficult . I would also suggest the manufacture and construction of a LA battery now is very different from an example thirty or more years ago. For all the hype about 'save the planet' super duper maintenance free LA batteries are not very long lived. I would also hazard a guess that they are much harder to hold at resonance than their fore runners, by design for obvious reasons. As for COP >1 ? well I thought so when I saw battery posts frosting up but me thinking in a logical way doesn't make it so, does it? Logic can be patient, for it is eternal Oliver Heaviside Thinking in a logical way for me runs rather like this , If a machine is running apparently with no known energy source and it contains a battery regardless of the machine something extraordinary must be occurring about that battery , Time and again these forums split away to discuss one system or another with its own band of loyal acolytes the focus is then lost The needle in the hay stack and we suckers the bee's … If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search... I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labour. Nikola Tesla Also if the system has merit planted in that group to add insult to injury, is a agent of deception one who seems 'all knowing' his/her paid job is to get the hounds chasing the wrong scent and eventually their own tails. It works a treat!.. think about it! This particular thread is aimed at capacitive battery charging and has branched off Clarence's subject. I initially opened it under a thread called 'magnetic current' It makes little mind to me' its a case of wherever the wheels gain traction . If I were simply off the cuff the write down a few systems , 1/ David Bowlings 3BGS 2/John B's Tesla Switch, 3/ The scalar Battery charger 4/ Clemente Figuera's machines there are many more ... if you do but think logically. In this vintage clip by EPD at 40sec would you like to hazard a guess what’s actually happening when the contacts go screwy ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwu8rspxQWE (might I suggest the frequency happens to be series resonant with the batteries for a while ?) It might help if you take every system you know of that contains a battery then consider how that particular machine might be adjusted so it is projecting series resonance at the battery. Also keep in mind with coil systems either end of the coil is anti phase w.r.t each other and so the centre tap obviously .. isn't . It is also then neither Sine nor Cosine. Whilst I am certain sure the secrets of the LA battery don't hold anything like all the answers, there is it seems to me something in the crystal formation that can convert 'magnetic current' instantly to usable energy. Just conjecture of course but I Think T.H Moray discovered a stable crystalline substance that would do that very same job but without all the will O' the wisp stuff that is forcing us to consider tracking what I promise you is a very difficult resonance. (In fact it isn't even really one resonance but rather a progressive series just as MJN describes else where) It seems he used the crystal Quartz or more precisely 'blasted Quartz' (metastatic) but like chemistry, batteries and oh so many other things its another area I know little about but I am trying to grasp. I guess if you want to make a rabbit stew the first thing you have to do is catch the rabbit. Here then I suggest Is the job of series resonance, The conversion is another chapter if not a whole book.... veroboard calls Kind regards Duncan « Last Edit: 2015-05-05, 09:40:33 by Duncan » --------------------------- How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ? http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf whilst we know little .. friends remember, In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. D. Erasmus

Allcanadian	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #64 on: 2015-05-05, 21:56:03 »
Hero Member Posts: 2735	@Duncan Quote As for COP >1 ? well I thought so when I saw battery posts frosting up but me thinking in a logical way doesn't make it so, does it? Hyperpysics would seem to disagree with evolvingape.... Quote The ratio of the energy transferred to the electric energy used in the process is called its coefficient of performance (CP). A typical CP for a commercial heat pump is between 3 and 4 units transferred per unit of electric energy supplied. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/heatpump.html#c2 So we know as a fact there are systems with a COP>1 just not any reproducable electromagnetic systems to date which may work on a similar process. So we should be clear a system with a COP>1 is not impossible in fact it is used every day in almost every home. I believe it is simply a matter of time before we nail down an electromagnetic equivalent to the heat pump at which point the critics are going to look pretty silly in my opinion. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

muDped	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #65 on: 2015-05-05, 23:34:22 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3055	Quote from: AllCanadian So we know as a fact there are systems with a COP>1 just not any reproducable electromagnetic systems to date which may work on a similar process. So we should be clear a system with a COP>1 is not impossible in fact it is used every day in almost every home. I believe it is simply a matter of time before we nail down an electromagnetic equivalent to the heat pump at which point the critics are going to look pretty silly in my opinion. Interesting thought AC. It is relatively easy to gain comprehension of the heat pump and its overunity as it interacts with our thermal environment. But, for an electromagnetic equivalent to manifest, what sort of environment would be needed to sustain it? What would be the electromagnetic equivalent of environmental thermal energy? Thinking... --------------------------- For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

Farmhand	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #66 on: 2015-05-06, 00:57:24 »
Group: Guest	If I take a solar system with shutters to block the sun and the system uses it's own stored energy to retract the shutters each day then that is an OU system. Even if we retract the shutters our selves then the work to retract the shutters is input to make the system work and the system could well be considered OU. It's all in the properties of the system and how it is designed to work. The retraction of the shutters by our or system work allows the system to gather much more energy than is input to allow it to happen. If we use that example we can see how it could be done in other ways. The feathering of blades on a wind powered generator, or some other exotic method of energy gathering from the environment. But the energy has to there to utilize to begin with. Truth is we all only want ways to cheaply gain energy from the environment to utilize how we wish. And in the big scheme of things the Universe is unity and always will be. .. What is needed is cheaper and more versatile ways to gain environmental energy than solar and wind power ect. Solar and wind should be seen as the gold standard in free energy or OU and what needs to be beaten by other technologies that we look at to replace them or compliment them. ..

Aking.21	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #67 on: 2015-05-06, 02:10:26 »
Sr. Member Posts: 420	Tinsel Koala has researched what appears to be an easy to build phase locked loop circuit. Here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMQkCW5vZVc --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

evolvingape	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #68 on: 2015-05-06, 18:31:14 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2502 Everyman decries immorality	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015-05-05, 21:56:03 @Duncan Quote As for COP >1 ? well I thought so when I saw battery posts frosting up but me thinking in a logical way doesn't make it so, does it? What Duncan claims he saw, is what Duncan claims he saw, nothing more. Duncans assertions of fact lack proof. Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015-05-05, 21:56:03 Hyperpysics would seem to disagree with evolvingape.... Quote The ratio of the energy transferred to the electric energy used in the process is called its coefficient of performance (CP). A typical CP for a commercial heat pump is between 3 and 4 units transferred per unit of electric energy supplied. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/heatpump.html#c2 The quote you posted from hyperphysics is my position. Review the two post conversation between myself and Mike a few posts back. Do you understand what you have just done ? Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015-05-05, 21:56:03 So we know as a fact there are systems with a COP>1 just not any reproducable electromagnetic systems to date which may work on a similar process. So we should be clear a system with a COP>1 is not impossible in fact it is used every day in almost every home. I believe it is simply a matter of time before we nail down an electromagnetic equivalent to the heat pump at which point the critics are going to look pretty silly in my opinion. AC Do you have any idea of the implications of what you just said ? --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs. Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security. Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.

forest	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #69 on: 2015-05-06, 19:55:59 »
Sr. Member Posts: 472	It's so simple people ! If we look at Tesla radiant energy patent then we think about current solar panel technology. However current PV cells are limited to very narrow band or visible EM spectrum and is very inefficient to cope with heat generated and so on. Imagine how more efficient PV cells will be immediately treated like a violation of law of physics. In very wide sense solar cells are electromagnetic antennas, make a better one and kW of power are available very cheaply and in quite small sized device like in Kapanadze green box...

evolvingape	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #70 on: 2015-05-06, 20:38:59 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2502 Everyman decries immorality	Quote from: forest on 2015-05-06, 19:55:59 Imagine how more efficient PV cells will be immediately treated like a violation of law of physics. No. Stop. Think. No violation of the laws of physics is occurring in your above scenario. --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs. Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security. Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.

Duncan	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #71 on: 2015-05-07, 05:20:21 »
Hero Member Posts: 702	Evolvingape ,, you are quite right 'what Duncan claims he saw' ,, I have certainly never managed to do it again. Also as no real measuring equipment was connected and as another battery was involved I could make no claim to COP>1 (not that it would be believed anyway) only that as far as I was concerned something extraordinary was going on. Regardless of what I saw (or was deluded by) as capacitor charging has already been shown by others on this thread to quickly restore batteries to health regardless of my claims (and my suspicions for those claims) the whole process needs close scrutiny and the reason why unearthed . I believe the hereto denied longitudinal wave and its counter part series resonance are in that equasion but regardless I'm certain there are enough skilled folks here to help link all the pieces together particullary 'the chemistry of xtals at resonance' and eventualy the truth of it will out! Duncan --------------------------- How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ? http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf whilst we know little .. friends remember, In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. D. Erasmus

Allcanadian	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #72 on: 2015-05-07, 17:51:31 »
Hero Member Posts: 2735	@Duncan Quote you are quite right 'what Duncan claims he saw' ,, I have certainly never managed to do it again. Also as no real measuring equipment was connected and as another battery was involved I could make no claim to COP>1 (not that it would be believed anyway) only that as far as I was concerned something extraordinary was going on. Regardless of what I saw (or was deluded by) as capacitor charging has already been shown by others on this thread to quickly restore batteries to health regardless of my claims (and my suspicions for those claims) the whole process needs close scrutiny and the reason why unearthed The issue I see is that most use a flawed sense of logic and reason. For instance I am walking in the forest and I come upon a pink elephant, I can see it, I can walk up and touch it and prove it is tangible for myself but then it walks away. Now if I talk to someone later and tell them what I saw does their personal disbelief or opinion change the reality of what happened?. Well no that is completely absurd otherwise reality and the facts would have to be dependent on every other persons opinion. As if to say if any other person could not believe it then somehow for reasons nobody could possibly explain reality and the facts must cease to exist. The argument that if I cannot personally believe it then it cannot be true or real is so utterly ridiculous and illogical it simply boggles the mind. It basically takes us back to the dark ages where the known universe was dictated by the beliefs of psychotic egomanic's who believed they could not possibly be wrong about anything. The fact is what others believe does not matter, what we know as a fact does. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

forest	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #73 on: 2015-05-07, 19:39:12 »
Sr. Member Posts: 472	The truth must pass throught these four stages : "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

Allcanadian	Re: current limiting capacitive battery charger « Reply #74 on: 2015-05-07, 23:16:06 »
Hero Member Posts: 2735	@Matt Quote Yes, forest is correct. Someone makes a "solar" panel that you can use at night next to your fireplace and generates 1500 watts of DC electric power... People are not going to accept that it behaves in the realm of "normal" physics, at least not until someone runs the numbers and explains how this new technology vastly outperforms the old technology. And even then, until it's mass produced, many will still think it is some sort of hoax. Seriously, would you believe it? Before or after several people you trust have one and have tested it? I like using a solar cell as an example because the majority of people still do not understand exactly how it works. Now let's say I invented a solar cell 100 years ago and I placed the cell on a table and to the absolute disbelief of everyone present it ran an electric motor. They would have literally no grasp of how or why such a thing could work and they would say it must violate the conservation of energy and be a perpetual motion machine. Next we come to the present and I place a small black box on a table and to the absolute disbelief of everyone present it runs an electric motor and they say it must violate the conservation of energy and be a perpetual motion machine....what is the difference between then and now?. Well there is absolutely no difference between the people witnessing the technology and while technology may change people's beliefs have not and they still think the same way. The psychology here is very strange because the critics say they believe in the conservation of energy and yet whenever they see something they don't understand they say it must violate the conservation of energy. Now why would anyone immediately jump to the conclusion that the conservation of energy must have been violated by a FE device when they say they believe it can never be violated?. I mean it is the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard and directly contradicts itself on every level. As if to say.... 1) Critic states-- the conservation of energy cannot be violated ever under any circumstances 2) Man places black box on table 3) Critic states-- you have just violated the conservation of energy 4) Man facepalms and leaves room with box AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

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