TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices.

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Author Topic: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. (Read 196435 times)

verpies	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #325 on: 2015-07-27, 09:27:18 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3499	Quote from: gotoluc on 2015-07-27, 05:14:44 You don't want to call it a "flyback spike"... so what do you want to call the effect when a coils current is shut off? Any other phrase that does not contain the word "back" because it suggest that the current through the windings reverses on interruption...and it doesn't. Quote from: gotoluc on 2015-07-27, 05:14:44 How can the current not reverse direction when the mosfet opens? How can it reverse through the winding if discontinuous current through any inductor is against its very nature? Quote from: gotoluc on 2015-07-27, 05:14:44 if it didn't the capacitor would not get charged so fast and so high since the blocking diode only allows reverse current to go through? Because current through a diode is not the same as current through the winding/inductor. This is elementary.

Centraflow	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #326 on: 2015-07-27, 10:02:46 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Thanks Grum for the photos Here is the updated rotor, you will see that every other segment is disconnected from the commutator. This does two things, it pulses the DC input to the rotor and second there is never a short of two or more segments of the commutator. The second thing is the frame has been cut, coil B has less rotor contact than the A coil, very clever. regards Mike ------------------------ TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. modified TM rotor.PNG (298.9 kB, 582x610 - viewed 774 times.) « Last Edit: 2015-07-27, 10:50:36 by Centraflow » --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Centraflow	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #327 on: 2015-07-27, 10:31:34 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Here is the modified frame regards Mike ------------------------ TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. Tinman frame cut.PNG (493.76 kB, 644x634 - viewed 740 times.) --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Itsu	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #328 on: 2015-07-27, 11:12:01 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	Quote Turn L2 connections around, does not make sense that the gate voltage is higher than the drain voltage unless L2 is going against the drain, opposite charge from the rotor. Mike, as said before, i tried all possible coil connection combinations, there is lots of difference, but the most successfull combo gives 1V on the drain and when releasing the brushes spring tension there is a sweetspot to 5V on the drain. Quote Hi Itsu, It doesn't look like your brushes are tangentially connected to the commutator like in Grum's diagram? I've found that is where I got most output. Jim, tangentially connected Definitions Sorry, no definitions found. I think you mean "under an angle", if so, yes you are right, my variable brushes bracket does not allow this. I don't want to ruin my single motor yet, so i am going slow. Quote Itsu, look at the close up of Brads brushes. They are not in a strait line to each other. You will need this variable which you were kind of doing when you pushed the brushes from side to side. Read the OU topic also for information as these were posted some days ago Luc, see my answer to Jim, and yes i am reading there too. Quote Here is the modified frame Mike, could it be that he cut off the B coil core sides to make room for 2 magnets, one on each side so to make a flux path as in his solid state version mentioned here: http://overunity.com/15901/tinman-generator-research-moderated-topic/msg456633/#msg456633 Regards Itsu ------------------------ TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. overunity.com.jpg (28.21 kB, 657x506 - viewed 737 times.)

JimBoot	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #329 on: 2015-07-27, 11:20:07 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1770	Quote from: Itsu on 2015-07-27, 11:12:01 Jim, tangentially connected Definitions Sorry, no definitions found. I think you mean "under an angle", if so, yes you are right, my variable brushes bracket does not allow this. I don't want to ruin my single motor yet, so i am going slow. sorry didn't know how else to explain. Under and angle isn't precise enough for what I'm trying to articulate. I've found best results where the brushes are coming off at a tangent either side of the commutator. Just sharing what Ive learned.

JimBoot	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #330 on: 2015-07-27, 11:22:43 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1770	Mike what vid is that frame shot from? Also did you see something in the vids that made you think the rotor segments were disconnected?

Centraflow	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #331 on: 2015-07-27, 11:28:22 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Quote from: JimBoot on 2015-07-27, 11:22:43 Mike what vid is that frame shot from? Also did you see something in the vids that made you think the rotor segments were disconnected? The last one of him demonstrating arcing on a copper plate regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Centraflow	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #332 on: 2015-07-27, 11:44:09 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Itsu but the voltage on the gate is what? the charging on the L2 should be the same as for the gate, all comes from the same place, coil L1!!!! Maybe remove the diode D2 $:-\$ is possible that it is not needed or it is it's value that is wrong, needs to be faster. What voltage does L1 generate to start with? if not enough then there is the problem, the rest should work. The commutator change as shown will make a huge difference to generator action and reduce input by 50% the pulsing of those rotor coils will turn it into a transformer with the L1 and L2 as secondaries as it is at the moment there is no real pulse on the primary and so limited voltage on the secondaries. Just thinking aloud on the above. regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

JimBoot	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #333 on: 2015-07-27, 12:01:01 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1770	ahahhaa the thot plickens

verpies	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #334 on: 2015-07-27, 12:12:41 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3499	Quote from: Centraflow on 2015-07-27, 10:02:46 Here is the updated rotor, you will see that every other segment is disconnected from the commutator. This does two things, it pulses the DC input to the rotor and second there is never a short of two or more segments of the commutator. Yes, and because of that the current to the coils is periodically interrupted, which will cause HV spikes at the break. The tangential arrangement of the brushes does not change anything electronically - only mechanically, because only the contact points with the commutator matter...and they are still diametrically opposite of the rotor, just as if they were with non-tangential brushes. Tangential arrangement only increases brushes' mechanical stability. Our resident mechanical genius would be able to explain better why that is so.

Centraflow	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #335 on: 2015-07-27, 12:43:44 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Quote from: verpies on 2015-07-27, 12:12:41 Yes, and because of that the current to the coils is periodically interrupted, which will cause HV spikes at the break. The tangential arrangement of the brushes does not change anything electronically - only mechanically, because only the contact points with the commutator matter...and they are still diametrically opposite of the rotor, just as if they were with non-tangential brushes. Tangential arrangement only increases brushes' mechanical stability. Our resident mechanical genius would be able to explain better why that is so. I'm 100% in agreement, I myself could not see this timing aspect when the brushes are diametrially opposite. regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

gotoluc	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #336 on: 2015-07-27, 13:54:55 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 901	Quote from: Centraflow on 2015-07-27, 10:31:34 Here is the modified frame regards Mike Good eyes on you Mike! I didn't notice that. I noticed the rotor commutator he showed had the coil wires removed on every other segment. I also though of doing the same experiment. One thing id for sure, Brad has put in a lot of hours in testing all these different possibilities. Thanks for sharing Luc ------------------------ TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. Commutator 1.png (547.6 kB, 1030x735 - viewed 706 times.) TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. Commutator 2.png (505.96 kB, 943x742 - viewed 663 times.)

Centraflow	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #337 on: 2015-07-27, 14:38:05 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Thanks to Grum, he sent me the stills and then I saw what I saw Regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Itsu	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #338 on: 2015-07-27, 14:39:17 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	Quote from: Centraflow on 2015-07-27, 11:44:09 Itsu but the voltage on the gate is what? the charging on the L2 should be the same as for the gate, all comes from the same place, coil L1!!!! Maybe remove the diode D2 $:-\$ is possible that it is not needed or it is it's value that is wrong, needs to be faster. What voltage does L1 generate to start with? if not enough then there is the problem, the rest should work. The commutator change as shown will make a huge difference to generator action and reduce input by 50% the pulsing of those rotor coils will turn it into a transformer with the L1 and L2 as secondaries as it is at the moment there is no real pulse on the primary and so limited voltage on the secondaries. Just thinking aloud on the above. regards Mike Mike, the voltage on the gate is OK, it is more then 15V but it is limited to 15V by the zener. The load (6V/2W bulb) is to much for the field coils and pulls the voltage down to the mentioned 1v. When i remove the bulb, the voltage on the capacitor raises, but as soon as i load it again with the bulb it drains it. Regards Itsu

Centraflow	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #339 on: 2015-07-27, 16:52:55 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Quote from: Itsu on 2015-07-27, 14:39:17 Mike, the voltage on the gate is OK, it is more then 15V but it is limited to 15V by the zener. The load (6V/2W bulb) is to much for the field coils and pulls the voltage down to the mentioned 1v. When i remove the bulb, the voltage on the capacitor raises, but as soon as i load it again with the bulb it drains it. Regards Itsu OK, then we are not generating current, only voltage, the current I hope will come with the rotor change. Not enough magnetic field passing the stator coils as it is. I have just finished altering mine, it was a big job as this was/is a quality motor, I had to drill the compressed wires in the segments. I am going to leave the frame for now and see how she goes. Regards Mike ------------------------ TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. 175121.jpg (15.41 kB, 320x240 - viewed 527 times.) --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Slider2732	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #340 on: 2015-07-27, 22:30:05 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Mike - from which you will see a huge leap in current to a small bulb and HV enough to light a neon My motor wants to spin now with the mod, but doesn't. That's the downside. With a neon connected across 1 coil and 12V to only the armature windings, it will light partially with a hand spin. The neon will actually flicker if the rotor is turned very slowly by hand, notch by notch and when the 12V is feeding the armature coils. Bottom left in pic. To add. When running at 24V (ATX PC power supply), a straight short of the other coil will kill the motor. Adding a 12V bulb will kill the motor. But, a 3V bulb will light very brightly, to the point of burn out. There is a sweet spot between the 2. ------------------------ TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. neon.JPG (212.51 kB, 1024x768 - viewed 525 times.) --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

JimBoot	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #341 on: 2015-07-27, 22:48:23 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1770	Quote from: Slider2732 on 2015-07-27, 22:30:05 Mike - from which you will see a huge leap in current to a small bulb and HV enough to light a neon My motor wants to spin now with the mod, but doesn't. That's the downside. With a neon connected across 1 coil and 12V to only the armature windings, it will light partially with a hand spin. The neon will actually flicker if the rotor is turned very slowly by hand, notch by notch and when the 12V is feeding the armature coils. Bottom left in pic. Well that's very curious Wallace. How well did it spin before the alteration?

Slider2732	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #342 on: 2015-07-27, 22:58:25 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Very well Gromit....freely and to a good speed (approx 1400 RPM), instant spin up. Output was much much lower though. Sparking is more prominent now, so my next stage, as well as 12V running again, is to quench those somehow. Another tip, appears to be to offset 1 brush by approx 80 degrees when in this configuration. On my motor, the brushes are at 90 degrees to the rotor coils. 1 is changed to be 80 degrees nearer to the other brush side. When stock, the 3V bulb comes on ok, but when offset, it gets really bright. --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

JimBoot	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #343 on: 2015-07-27, 23:48:35 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1770	Quote from: Slider2732 on 2015-07-27, 22:58:25 Very well Gromit....freely and to a good speed (approx 1400 RPM), instant spin up. Output was much much lower though. Sparking is more prominent now, so my next stage, as well as 12V running again, is to quench those somehow. Another tip, appears to be to offset 1 brush by approx 80 degrees when in this configuration. On my motor, the brushes are at 90 degrees to the rotor coils. 1 is changed to be 80 degrees nearer to the other brush side. When stock, the 3V bulb comes on ok, but when offset, it gets really bright. Is the brush tip "square" with the comm or angled in the offset? Have you tried the new rotor without the offset? Thanks mate.

Slider2732	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #344 on: 2015-07-28, 00:43:08 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	It's a little complicated, but the answer is 1 of them is offset, the other is stock. Changing from fine contact to full contact affects arcing, but HV is always there. The best current, has been with less brush surface area contact and when that offset brush is near 80 degrees - see pic. Don't forget though, nothing is scientific in my setup yet...it's all plug/change/note/change. Not much scope work yet or multiple multimeters. This motor is from a car vacuum cleaner, Dirt Devil. The motor was encased in plastic, which supported the brushes and bearings. I've removed one side and 1 brush, but that means 1 brush is still stock. The other brush sits on a piece of thick copper (house gauge) which is nailed to the wood piece that the motor is also affixed to. So one side is stock, the other can be moved around. To complicate further, the stock side brush is filed to have a thinner contact area, probably a mistake. The other side is using a square brush from another motor. Mainly, because the arcing will likely eat a brush in short order and these were short to begin with. I've got it running on 12V again, but, is only a temporary measure. Am using a 3rd brush The third brush connects to the same input (Positive supply) as the one on the end of the copper wire. It then is placed where the original stock brush would go LOL Upshot of all this. If your motor won't spin up on 12V after modifying the rotor, attach a 3rd brush to a clip lead and put it near TDC (Top Dead Center) and move it slightly toward the brush side that you're taking the power feed from. The only point of which, up to now, is to try out various other measures while running at the original 12V. I do however see a link to thoughts on 4 brushes. In which case, a 4th brush at the other side (BDC) at a slight offset would also likely improve running. Pic attached. On left is me holding the 3rd brush in place, where there used to be one anyway. A few degrees off from the top is the mid brush, held with the thick copper wire. On the right is the other brush. Oh and the coil and LED on top is there because of the wireless noisy field, the LED lights up ------------------------ TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. IMAG0263.JPG (323.19 kB, 1024x768 - viewed 503 times.) --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Grumage	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #345 on: 2015-07-28, 01:05:43 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Dear Slider 2732. Old school again, this was employed moons ago " third brush regulation " for simple voltage control of automotive dynamos. It seems we are seeing things again in a new light ! The first ever piece of test equipment I saw was my dear Unclles Runbaken armature growler, this device, when used correctly could determine a shorted turn in Dynamo armatures. You see I've had a life of electricity that was nearly ended when I tried to illuminate a 12 V lamp from an un warded 240 socket outlet !! Threw me over 12 feet across the living room, mother was quite upset with my father as he had given me the lamp to play with, all I can say now, thanks Dad . I hope to share some findings tomorrow. Cheers Grum. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Slider2732	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #346 on: 2015-07-28, 01:10:32 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Really ? That's cool. I mean, that it's got history to it as something that actually works LOL Neat to self discover it. I imagine there will be tips toward best employment of the regulation too Image from Back To The Future just there, where Marty plugs the guitar into the huge speaker and goes flying. --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Allcanadian	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #347 on: 2015-07-28, 02:38:50 »
Hero Member Posts: 2735	@Grumage Quote The first ever piece of test equipment I saw was my dear Unclles Runbaken armature growler, this device, when used correctly could determine a shorted turn in Dynamo armatures. You see I've had a life of electricity that was nearly ended when I tried to illuminate a 12 V lamp from an un warded 240 socket outlet !! Threw me over 12 feet across the living room, mother was quite upset with my father as he had given me the lamp to play with, all I can say now, thanks Dad . Smiley Been there... my first experience was an electromagnet made of 10 turns of 14 ga wire around a 4 inch long nail. It was too weak using a 1.5v D cell so I plugged it into the 120v outlet.... it worked, man did it work, lol. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

JimBoot	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #348 on: 2015-07-28, 05:52:24 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1770	my video last night re the brushes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsBH9ylic74

JimBoot	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #349 on: 2015-07-28, 11:00:48 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1770	Just adjusted the rotor coils. Killed my dyson but did wonders for my breville blender motor. Previously I hadn't got the blender lighting a lamp with the new rotor design it does. The Dyson not so much. I think it's all about the brush contacts spaced just right. If I tweak the brushes on the dyson its starts to run but very unstable.

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