TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices.

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Author Topic: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. (Read 196378 times)

poynt99	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #150 on: 2015-06-04, 13:48:51 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: TinMan on 2015-06-04, 10:32:53 Mmm-is it not a bit soon to dismiss Partzman's circuit?. I tend not to make judgement of the future by using the past as an example. For the simulation, it's Absolutely Not Too Soon! When I say I would bet my house on it, I'm not joking. There can be no way whatsoever that a simulation will show OU when ALL power is accounted for in the circuit. partzman could do a much better job coming up with the Pin and Pout numbers for starters. First of all, you do NOT need to use a whole slew of long expressions to get the power measurements, LTSpice has a power meter built in. Second, partzman is not using a sufficient number of cycles for the computation. When making power measurements one should use a minimum of 10 cycles, preferrably 15 or 20. Third, and perhaps the most important, partzman is NOT accounting for ALL the power in the circuit, INCLUDING that which may be coming from the gate drives. He is obviously afraid to find out the truth however, otherwise he'd pass on sufficient info for someone to replicate and verify his sim. If it works for him, I'd be willing to sign a NDA and test it in private. That way when I prove to him that the circuit is indeed underunity, he can stop this madness. « Last Edit: 2015-06-04, 14:19:16 by poynt99 » --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

poynt99	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #151 on: 2015-06-04, 14:33:20 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	I got the spice model for the IPB038N12N3 (from the INFINEON web site) but something with the syntax is causing the pspice modeler to complain, so at the moment I can't use it. Too bad because it is a heavy duty device and has huge parasitic capacitance, which is difficult to model just by adding some. I believe this is partly key to getting this sim to work like partzman's, as his circuit is in resonance, and that means getting the capacitance values right is important. --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

poynt99	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #152 on: 2015-06-04, 14:57:24 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	OK, I think I've fixed the syntax problem, and I can now import the entire INFINEON library. I will try it out tomorrow. --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

partzman	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #153 on: 2015-06-04, 15:27:44 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1808	Poynt99, I will end the madness for you. But first I'll say to you that the value of the dc resistance of L1,2,and 3 are .15 ohms and are not critical to the operation. However at least one other assumption you made incorrectly is V4. V4 is the same 24us period with 50% duty cycle as V1, but delayed 90 degrees or 6us. So, as I request to be removed from this list, I'll leave you with only one set of variables to solve and that is the K factors or couplings between windings. Good luck! partzman

poynt99	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #154 on: 2015-06-04, 16:47:17 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Thanks for the 90 degree delay and dc resistance info. That is kinda critical. lol. But it doesn't sound like it is going to stop the madness Save your time and money, and get some assistance performing a proper analysis of your sim. Deep down you have to know that the power accounting will work out to zero, right? As you mention K factor in plural, do I assume correctly that there are two rather than one? If so, then this complicates things quite a bit I would think, in terms of replicating the sim. Stick around to see if I can succeed in replicating your results. --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

poynt99	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #155 on: 2015-06-05, 16:41:59 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Well, sorry Brad. Even with the additional info on the DC resistance, 90 degree delay, and better model for the MOSFET, I can not get close to the wave forms partzman showed. In addition, I can not get the seemingly resonant condition evidenced by the current in the 50V supply. Perhaps I have made an error somewhere too, which is entirely possible. Perhaps there are more missing clues, I just don't know. It is difficult enough to get simulations to replicate real circuits when little info is given, but purposely obfuscating circuit details pretty much makes it impossible. What else is missing that partzman left out? I don't know. Maybe he said "good luck" for a good reason? LOL. ------------------------ TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. partzman_sch.png (14.54 kB, 914x601 - viewed 1026 times.) TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. partzman_Vout.png (8.62 kB, 710x502 - viewed 985 times.) TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. partzman_Isup.png (10.01 kB, 712x504 - viewed 970 times.) « Last Edit: 2015-06-06, 01:04:11 by poynt99 » --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

poynt99	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #156 on: 2015-06-08, 16:00:02 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Through email, partzman has been gracious enough to provide the last unknowns (the K factors) to fully replicate his simulation. It also became clear to me that using the Infineon PSpice model was not going to cut it, so I decided to redraw the schematic and simulate it in LTSpice, and use the LTSpice VDMOS model just like partzman. Here is the measurement procedure and the results: Set the .tran statement so that a minimum of 10 cycles will be displayed and used for the following (I used about 40 cycles). Get the input power (blue trace) on the 50V supply, and the output power (green trace) on the 200 Ohm load to display on the screen (use alt-click over the device), then use "ctl-click" over each trace label in the wave forms window. This gives you a small window indicating the average and integral of that power trace (too bad you can not do more than one trace at a time). Using this method (with 1ms of data on the screen), the Pout(avg) measurement is 492mW, and the Pin(avg) measurement shown on the screen capture is -845mW (negative because it is supplying rather than dissipating power). This works out to a COP of about 0.58. I have included my .asc file as well as a screen shot of the power traces and resulting Pout(avg) measurement. ------------------------ Partzman_poynt.asc (3.02 kB - downloaded 250 times.) TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. partzman_LT_PWRs.png (43.93 kB, 1680x1050 - viewed 927 times.) --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

poynt99	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #157 on: 2015-06-09, 14:36:37 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Because the load is purely resistive, we can also obtain Pout(avg) via the following approach: Pout(avg) = Vrms²/R = (9.9201)²/200 = 492mW This is the same Pout(avg) result as obtained above using the average of the instantaneous output power. ------------------------ TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. partzman_poynt_rms.png (62.94 kB, 1360x768 - viewed 947 times.) --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

TinselKoala	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #158 on: 2015-06-29, 06:16:36 »
Group: Guest	There seems to be something wrong at OU dot com, where a discussion is/was happening about TinMan's current device, so I'm putting this here. It appears that the device is putting out more power than it takes to run it... but it cannot simply be self-looped due to the configuration of the supply and output. The solution is very simple. Here is what you do. You make a _second, identical_ device and run it on the output of the first one. Say the device uses 10 watts and produces 12 watts output. (I'm just using those numbers for illustration.) SO you take the first one, connect its output to the input of the second device along with a 2-watt resistive load. The first device taking in 10 watts should be able to run the second device AND the 2-watt additional load, and the second device should put out its full 12 watts. Daisy-chain a few identical devices this way, each one running the next one in line PLUS an additional load.... And if the device incorporates a motor, then each extra device in the chain should have its motor running at the same speed or torque as the first one. IF, that is, the devices are really putting out more power than it takes to run them. You should be able to chain an indefinite number of devices plus their extra loads, all operating only on the original 10 watts input to the first device. Or ... you should be able to come up with some coherent explanation of why this cannot be done, in spite of the "overunity" performance _measurements_ of each individual device.

JimBoot	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #159 on: 2015-06-29, 07:05:54 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1770	Yeah OU is displaying 403. Happens quite a bit. I like your solution TK.

JimBoot	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #160 on: 2015-06-29, 09:32:18 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1770	Looks like Brad has removed the vids from public view. Hope all is good.

Chet K	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #161 on: 2015-06-29, 13:35:14 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Jim I suspect this is all quite nerve wracking ...The TinMan has battled this measurement beast many times before. And now there seems more misunderstandings over choice of words and trust... One thing is certain ,the Tinman is a man of action and impeccable character ,we have all seen this many times. he practices Brutal Honesty even when it hurts.

JimBoot	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #162 on: 2015-06-29, 14:05:33 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1770	Quote from: Chet K on 2015-06-29, 13:35:14 Jim I suspect this is all quite nerve wracking ...The TinMan has battled this measurement beast many times before. And now there seems more misunderstandings over choice of words and trust... One thing is certain ,the Tinman is a man of action and impeccable character ,we have all seen this many times. he practices Brutal Honesty even when it hurts. Kultus made me aware of brads work and the thing I've always liked about him is that he is a skeptical old bastard even on his own work. I think a bigger question here is what does it really mean to open source? On one hand you have the altruistic motives and on the other you want to look after your family and be able to work on your projects full time. I have my own views on how you can achieve this but for the individual maybe the best option is to license the tech if you have something that works.

Peterae	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #163 on: 2015-06-29, 18:07:19 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	To either patent, sell or license you need a company, it would be shut down in a flash, look what happened to Ed Gray, Stanley Meyer & Steven Marks UEC, hell they even ruined Tesla over it. Open source is the only way to get the tech out any other way would be crushed, it just depends if they intend to destroy you and your family or not, which in Ed's case they did both. Mr Oil man will not allow a $30 device to generate unlimited free energy, would you if your countries income depended on it. To put it another way, it's you & your company against all developed governments and every oil producing billionair & probably more, who do you think is going to come out worse.

Farmhand	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #164 on: 2015-07-01, 02:08:45 »
Group: Guest	But Tesla wasn't shut down because he built a free energy machine. He had his funding stopped because he obtained funding under false pretense. He spent other peoples money on certain things when he was supposed to be spending on other things. His investors had every right to stop funding and the result would seem to be caused by Tesla's needing to be funded in the first place. One of Tesla's big problems was that he had few people he could trust and lacked the ability to develop his inventions with secrecy. He seems to have had a big need for showmanship and not enough business savvy. One man can't do everything and remain sane. With that said Tesla never claimed any devices that produced more energy than was input to them in total. All that can be done is to utilize energy for free, it cannot be made, only utilized. Tesla suffered business "death", not because of free energy or OU but because that is what happens in business, people use their money and wealth to take people down that keep secrets from them or otherwise piss them off. Tesla pissed of his creditor and the creditor stopped the credit. If Tesla ever intended to pay to run his generators (and he did, it didn't run for free) to power his Magnifying Transmitter so as to let anyone and everyone tap into the disturbance and utilize energy for free but at his expense then he was a nutter. I don't think he was a nutter. I think it entirely possible that there was ways to prevent people from drawing (in system power) and the only power available for scavengers would have been waste RF power. I have yet to see any claim actually made by Tesla himself that his Magnifying Transmitter produced more out than he put in. At Colorado Springs he kept good records and they say he input all the power to the device and ran at a loss. ..

Matt Watts	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #165 on: 2015-07-01, 14:48:52 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2015-06-29, 18:07:19 To either patent, sell or license you need a company, it would be shut down in a flash, look what happened to Ed Gray, Stanley Meyer & Steven Marks UEC, hell they even ruined Tesla over it. Open source is the only way to get the tech out any other way would be crushed, it just depends if they intend to destroy you and your family or not, which in Ed's case they did both. Mr Oil man will not allow a $30 device to generate unlimited free energy, would you if your countries income depended on it. To put it another way, it's you & your company against all developed governments and every oil producing billionair & probably more, who do you think is going to come out worse. Exactly! This is why Russ Gries started his Live Science initiative--to get everything in the hands of others the same moment the breakthrough happens. The hope is to move the information out to the public faster than the sweeper teams can clean it up. Unfortunately with Russ's position under QGR, he can't quite take this approach to the full extent he envisioned. The idea though is still sound. The method we can use is to document as we build and the moment one of us hits the jackpot, everything goes viral so you're not left swinging in the breeze to fend for yourself. Holding the goodies for an hour can be dangerous enough; for a day? Too long. For a month? You're probably already dead. Now, where did I put my grenade coil... ?

giantkiller	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #166 on: 2015-07-01, 16:59:47 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1593 Frequency equals matter...	Ditto... Quote from: Peterae on 2015-06-29, 18:07:19 To either patent, sell or license you need a company, it would be shut down in a flash, look what happened to Ed Gray, Stanley Meyer & Steven Marks UEC, hell they even ruined Tesla over it. Open source is the only way to get the tech out any other way would be crushed, it just depends if they intend to destroy you and your family or not, which in Ed's case they did both. Mr Oil man will not allow a $30 device to generate unlimited free energy, would you if your countries income depended on it. To put it another way, it's you & your company against all developed governments and every oil producing billionair & probably more, who do you think is going to come out worse. There will be capitalists after somebody takes the fall and we will all be living the life like in the movie 5th Element. --------------------------- http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/

JimBoot	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #167 on: 2015-07-01, 22:32:02 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1770	Quote from: giantkiller on 2015-07-01, 16:59:47 Ditto... There will be capitalists after somebody takes the fall and we will all be living the life like in the movie 5th Element. that is not capitalism my friend.

Centraflow	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #168 on: 2015-07-01, 23:53:34 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Look whats happening to Greece, the government is standing up to the EEC and the capitalists that run it. May not be the right way to go, but, they have b*lls to do it, we will see what happens regards mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

JimBoot	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #169 on: 2015-07-02, 00:47:23 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1770	capitalism and corpratism are two very different things.

giantkiller	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #170 on: 2015-07-02, 01:24:52 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1593 Frequency equals matter...	Quote from: JimBoot on 2015-07-02, 00:47:23 capitalism and corpratism are two very different things. But that pit hole was not what I meant. When people are free but have no moral boundaries all hell breaks loose. Then there are the steppers and the steppees. --------------------------- http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/

Aking.21	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #171 on: 2015-07-02, 23:30:29 »
Sr. Member Posts: 420	Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015-06-29, 06:16:36 There seems to be something wrong at OU dot com, where a discussion is/was happening about TinMan's current device, so I'm putting this here. It appears that the device is putting out more power than it takes to run it... but it cannot simply be self-looped due to the configuration of the supply and output. The solution is very simple. Here is what you do. You make a _second, identical_ device and run it on the output of the first one. Say the device uses 10 watts and produces 12 watts output. (I'm just using those numbers for illustration.) SO you take the first one, connect its output to the input of the second device along with a 2-watt resistive load. The first device taking in 10 watts should be able to run the second device AND the 2-watt additional load, and the second device should put out its full 12 watts. Daisy-chain a few identical devices this way, each one running the next one in line PLUS an additional load.... And if the device incorporates a motor, then each extra device in the chain should have its motor running at the same speed or torque as the first one. IF, that is, the devices are really putting out more power than it takes to run them. You should be able to chain an indefinite number of devices plus their extra loads, all operating only on the original 10 watts input to the first device. Or ... you should be able to come up with some coherent explanation of why this cannot be done, in spite of the "overunity" performance _measurements_ of each individual device. What do you think will happen if Tinman did that? Do you think TPTB will allow it? --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

TinselKoala	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #172 on: 2015-07-03, 02:11:46 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Aking.21 on 2015-07-02, 23:30:29 What do you think will happen if Tinman did that? Do you think TPTB will allow it? What I think will happen isn't really important, is it? What's important is what _actually_ happens when/if Tinman tests his device this way. After all, Ruslan and Akula and Kapanadze, with their clearly self running systems producing kilowatts of power without any input at all, haven't been prevented from doing anything by TPTB, have they?

PhysicsProf	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #173 on: 2015-07-03, 17:03:34 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3017	Quote from: Farmhand on 2015-07-01, 02:08:45 But Tesla wasn't shut down because he built a free energy machine. He had his funding stopped because he obtained funding under false pretense. He spent other peoples money on certain things when he was supposed to be spending on other things. His investors had every right to stop funding ... Tesla suffered business "death", not because of free energy or OU but because that is what happens in business, people use their money and wealth to take people down that keep secrets from them or otherwise piss them off. I don't know about the first part, but the last part seems true enough: " people use their money and wealth to take people down that keep secrets from them or otherwise piss them off. "

Aking.21	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #174 on: 2015-07-04, 00:29:41 »
Sr. Member Posts: 420	Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015-07-03, 02:11:46 What I think will happen isn't really important, is it? What's important is what _actually_ happens when/if Tinman tests his device this way. After all, Ruslan and Akula and Kapanadze, with their clearly self running systems producing kilowatts of power without any input at all, haven't been prevented from doing anything by TPTB, have they? Ask MarkE --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

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