TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices.

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Author Topic: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. (Read 196340 times)

forest	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #125 on: 2015-06-02, 11:09:03 »
Sr. Member Posts: 472	Basically it is a transformer that can be shorted without overloading the source. Hmm...then make a parallel resonant circuit on primary side....

T-1000	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #126 on: 2015-06-02, 11:45:50 »
Sr. Member Posts: 375	Quote from: forest on 2015-06-02, 11:09:03 Basically it is a transformer that can be shorted without overloading the source. Hmm...then make a parallel resonant circuit on primary side.... Then you might come back to my old post... http://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg357338/#msg357338

partzman	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #127 on: 2015-06-02, 14:23:56 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1808	Quote from: poynt99 on 2015-06-01, 19:59:11 Care to show some proof? Poynt99, I have decided to post the attached simulation which is the circuit I was going to use to "prove" my incorrect point of average verses rms. This is a sim of an actual operating bench circuit and was used for ease in tweaking and tuning the overall performance and it includes the calcs for both rms and average outputs. I let the reader decide if the circuit is OU or not. I choose not to disclose the operation of this circuit. partzman ------------------------ TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. PBC1_2.png (207.8 kB, 1280x1024 - viewed 902 times.)

Aking.21	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #128 on: 2015-06-02, 14:47:40 »
Sr. Member Posts: 420	Farmhand: I was privvy to some inside info and was reacting to that. No need to bring bodily functions into it. --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

TinMan	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #129 on: 2015-06-02, 15:40:00 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: partzman on 2015-06-02, 14:23:56 Poynt99, I have decided to post the attached simulation which is the circuit I was going to use to "prove" my incorrect point of average verses rms. This is a sim of an actual operating bench circuit and was used for ease in tweaking and tuning the overall performance and it includes the calcs for both rms and average outputs. I let the reader decide if the circuit is OU or not. I choose not to disclose the operation of this circuit. partzman PoutRMS/Pinavg=1.28261 Are you telling me a sim is showing an OU value? -->Poynt??? --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinselKoala	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #130 on: 2015-06-02, 19:41:15 »
Group: Guest	Have the sums been done properly? http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf Quote The RMS value of power is not the equivalent heating power and, in fact, it doesn’t represent any useful physical quantity.

Smudge	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #131 on: 2015-06-02, 20:26:28 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1940	Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015-06-02, 19:41:15 Have the sums been done properly? http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf That paper uses a square wave obtained by turning a switch on and off, i.e. the voltage is either positive or zero, it is never negative. And getting the RMS value involves the square root of 2 (actually divided by 2 to become 0.707) which also happens to be involved when getting the RMS value of a sine wave. This can lead some people to think that all waveforms use that 0.707 factor in going from peak to RMS and that is wrong. If the square wave were both positive and negative the RMS value is exactly the peak value, no 0.707 involved. But it is correct in that the RMS value of the voltage-squared (power) waveform is of no use, as the M in RMS implies you must take the mean value of that power waveform then square root it to get a useful RMS value Smudge

poynt99	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #132 on: 2015-06-03, 01:00:04 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: TinMan on 2015-06-02, 15:40:00 PoutRMS/Pinavg=1.28261 Are you telling me a sim is showing an OU value? -->Poynt??? Brad, I can assure you with 100% confidence that there is an erroneous measurement, assumption, or math expression somewhere there. If partzman would be so kind to post the coupling factor among L1, L2, and L3, I will simulate it and perform proper Pin and Pout computations. --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

partzman	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #133 on: 2015-06-03, 01:25:34 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1808	Quote from: poynt99 on 2015-06-03, 01:00:04 Brad, I can assure you with 100% confidence that there is an erroneous measurement, assumption, or math expression somewhere there. If partzman would be so kind to post the coupling factor among L1, L2, and L3, I will simulate it and perform proper Pin and Pout computations. Poynt99, I will not share any more circuit details until provisional patents are filed. This circuit is the result of months of research and development of a conceptual idea and I will not divulge any additional details. You know LtSpice and I'm sure you are familiar with transient analysis, so simply look at the .meas commands. The pin average measurement and the output load voltage rms measurements and the pout calculation are straightforward and really need no explanation except maybe I'll point out that the measurement interval is over three complete cycles of the periodic function. The average measurements are not exactly as easy to follow with certain time measurements being established "on the fly" and then used to determine the time periods for the average measurements. This should not be of any concern however. There are no tricks involved as it is not my intention to deceive so if you should find an error of any sort, please let me know. partzman

poynt99	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #134 on: 2015-06-03, 01:39:03 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Well, Most of the values are there. I think the only missing items are the inductor K factor (I am going to assume "1"), and the period (I am going to start with 12us). I have already finished drawing it up. Next we'll see if I have your wave forms. If so, then Pin and Pout are child's play. btw, I think your provisional patent may be a little premature, especially considering your recent measurement faux pas. Stand by, measurements coming soon. --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

partzman	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #135 on: 2015-06-03, 01:56:24 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1808	Poynt99, Here is a little more measurement info. These are measurements using the plot math functions and they show the input average power (which is actually better than my calcs) and two methods for pout which agree with my .meas calculation. partzman EDIT: The reason the pin is less than my .meas calculation is due to the fact that the plot window is 1us longer than the .meas window. I make the plot window slightly longer to eliminate any ambiguity at the end of the measurement period. When the plot window is shortened to 72us, the plot measurements agree 100% with my .meas calculations. ------------------------ TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. PBC1_2A.png (177.42 kB, 1280x1024 - viewed 785 times.) TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. PBC1_2B.png (177.7 kB, 1280x1024 - viewed 794 times.) TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. PBC1_2C.png (178.19 kB, 1280x1024 - viewed 807 times.)

poynt99	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #136 on: 2015-06-03, 02:21:47 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Do you have any DC resistance associated with coils L1-L3? If so, what values? I think in LTSpice you can enter those but it may not show on the schematic. btw, I'm using PSpice, not LT. btw2, do a power measurement on both VG1 and V4 (your gate drive sources), and post the sum here. I think you'll be surprised! Do you think some of that power is contributing to the output? « Last Edit: 2015-06-03, 03:01:21 by poynt99 » --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

TinMan	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #137 on: 2015-06-03, 03:35:49 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	This is how it should be done. A circuit and it's P/in P/out measurements are presented,and then open for others to check for eror's I will be interested to see what Poynt comes up with. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

poynt99	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #138 on: 2015-06-03, 13:29:25 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Brad, I need the DC resistance of coils L1 thru L3 in order to properly simulate the circuit. The K coupling factor between them can be adjusted until the wave forms match. I am also assuming that both VG1 and V4 are in phase and driving both gates in sync. So far I have the same output power, but much higher input power. So I need the coils' resistance. I was using a different MOSFET too so that may be contributing to the problem. I now have the model for the MOSFET so will try that tonight. The MOSFET parasitic capacitances, and circuit capacitances have a large effect on the wave forms. @ partzman, would you be willing to post your LTSpice .asc file? --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

partzman	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #139 on: 2015-06-03, 14:59:28 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1808	Quote from: poynt99 on 2015-06-03, 13:29:25 Brad, I need the DC resistance of coils L1 thru L3 in order to properly simulate the circuit. The K coupling factor between them can be adjusted until the wave forms match. I am also assuming that both VG1 and V4 are in phase and driving both gates in sync. So far I have the same output power, but much higher input power. So I need the coils' resistance. I was using a different MOSFET too so that may be contributing to the problem. I now have the model for the MOSFET so will try that tonight. The MOSFET parasitic capacitances, and circuit capacitances have a large effect on the wave forms. @ partzman, would you be willing to post your LTSpice .asc file? Poynt99, I'm sorry but I won't give any additional info at this time. I'm in the process of filing a provisional and when that is completed, I'll share the data. partzman

poynt99	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #140 on: 2015-06-03, 15:19:45 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: partzman on 2015-06-03, 14:59:28 Poynt99, I'm sorry but I won't give any additional info at this time. I'm in the process of filing a provisional and when that is completed, I'll share the data. partzman The DC resistance of your coils is proprietary information? Really? I would save yourself the time, money and effort, because I can assure you that your simulation or the interpretation of the simulation results are erroneous or incomplete. I would bet my house on that. Would you be confident enough to bet against me? Aren't you interested in verifying your assumptions? I really have no interest in your circuit, because I know it does nothing extraordinary. I'm only interested in proper power measurements and the ACCOUNTING of all power in the circuit. You would be wise, in my opinion, to heed my advice and at the very least double check your work. The above additional measurements is not sufficient. Even better would be if a third party can vet your results, like I am offering to do. You can't patent a simulation. --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

TinMan	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #141 on: 2015-06-03, 15:41:32 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	@ Partzman If you do not wish to post the information here on a public forum,then get in touch with Poynt via message,and organise with him to do it off grid. I can assure you he wont take your idea and run of to claim it as his own. @ Poynt Betting your house is a big risk,although I'm sure you feel quite safe doing it from what the laws of physics tell you what is and is not possable. But even so,the day will come,and your house will go lol. Have you been that conditioned over time that you automatically dismiss everything without having replicated it yet-even when the sim shows otherwise?. Maybe you have this backward Poynt. Rather trying to get your sim to show his circuit is underunity,make it your task to get your sim to show the overunity insted . What I'm saying is,go into it with a positive attitude,and don't get into the habit of dismissing everything straight up,as the evidence provided so far is saying your house is up for grabs lol. There is a good chance that something has been overlooked here,but until that something is found,then we look into the results that have been provided in a positive way. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

poynt99	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #142 on: 2015-06-03, 17:23:46 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	It is impossible to get an OU result with a simulator Brad. When every source of power is accounted for, the results will always indicate a net zero gain or loss. There is zero risk of losing such a bet when it comes to simulations. You SHOULD already know this by now. --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

gyula	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #143 on: 2015-06-03, 18:21:46 »
Group: Tech Wizard Hero Member Posts: 1194	Hi partzman, I have not seen your mentioning that the bench test on your actual circuit also shows COP>1 result as the LTSpice simulation does. So would you mind telling this, please. Thanks, Gyula

TinMan	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #144 on: 2015-06-03, 19:49:18 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: poynt99 on 2015-06-03, 17:23:46 It is impossible to get an OU result with a simulator Brad. When every source of power is accounted for, the results will always indicate a net zero gain or loss. There is zero risk of losing such a bet when it comes to simulations. You SHOULD already know this by now. Ahhh So a simulator will never show an OU result. Well that is something i have been saying all along,and the very reason i don't like them being used to replicate an actual device. Sims are based around only the known,and will never account for anomalies that an actual device may produce. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

poynt99	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #145 on: 2015-06-04, 00:04:09 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: TinMan on 2015-06-03, 19:49:18 Ahhh So a simulator will never show an OU result. Well that is something i have been saying all along,and the very reason i don't like them being used to replicate an actual device. Sims are based around only the known,and will never account for anomalies that an actual device may produce. Sure, but to date the simulator has been able to replicate (and shed light on) everything electrical you have come up with if I'm not mistaken. I've been saying for years that simulations can't show OU if used properly, but several folks have FOOLED themselves into thinking they HAVE achieve OU with their simulation. I'm afraid this is the case with partzman as well. --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

partzman	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #146 on: 2015-06-04, 03:03:26 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1808	Quote from: gyula on 2015-06-03, 18:21:46 Hi partzman, I have not seen your mentioning that the bench test on your actual circuit also shows COP>1 result as the LTSpice simulation does. So would you mind telling this, please. Thanks, Gyula Gyula, I bench tested this device many months ago and I do not recall any rms output measurements because all I was taking at the time was mean or average. I do recall the mean measurements were near unity and the device was shelved because of that. I have run literally hundreds of bench designs since then and dozens of sim variations on most of those so I have massive files to search thru to find what notes I have on those tests . I am in the process of replicating the bench circuit in order to take the rms measurements. partzman

partzman	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #147 on: 2015-06-04, 03:14:26 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1808	Quote from: poynt99 on 2015-06-04, 00:04:09 Sure, but to date the simulator has been able to replicate (and shed light on) everything electrical you have come up with if I'm not mistaken. I've been saying for years that simulations can't show OU if used properly, but several folks have FOOLED themselves into thinking they HAVE achieve OU with their simulation. I'm afraid this is the case with partzman as well. Poynt99, Let us assume for a moment that you are correct and I am "fooling" myself in my simple simulation. Let us also assume that no simulation will never show OU as you state. This begs the question "why"? Is it A) Sim models are inaccurate, or B) No OU will ever be seen within the confines of classic electrodynamics which all simulators are based on, or C) both? Which is it? partzman

poynt99	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #148 on: 2015-06-04, 03:48:21 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: partzman on 2015-06-04, 03:14:26 Poynt99, Let us assume for a moment that you are correct and I am "fooling" myself in my simple simulation. Let us also assume that no simulation will never show OU as you state. This begs the question "why"? Why were you wrong about the rms question? Why do you think you have proven OU with your sim? Why can't you give the DC resistance values for the coils in your sim? The answer to your question is obvious....mine, not so much. --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

TinMan	Re: TinMans reserch and experiments into free energy devices. « Reply #149 on: 2015-06-04, 10:32:53 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: poynt99 on 2015-06-04, 00:04:09 Quote Sure, but to date the simulator has been able to replicate (and shed light on) everything electrical you have come up with if I'm not mistaken. This much is true Quote I've been saying for years that simulations can't show OU if used properly, but several folks have FOOLED themselves into thinking they HAVE achieve OU with their simulation. I'm afraid this is the case with partzman as well. Mmm-is it not a bit soon to dismiss Partzman's circuit?. I tend not to make judgement of the future by using the past as an example. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

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