Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence

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Author Topic: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence (Read 198976 times)

Farmhand	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #175 on: 2015-04-10, 22:42:14 »
Group: Guest	OK so who is replicating what that is my question and what do you guys think Tinman was replicating and what do you guys think I was replicating ? A lot of condemning but no details of the charges. Please clarify. I was replicating what Tinman was doing and I had no 21 Watt bulb so I just did the test and showed the measurement two ways, if the voltage is scoped on the load side of the capacitor both the amplitude and the phase are different. As it turns out Tinmans effect ran out so all is said and done. No more replicating is warranted by me now anyway. The capacitive charger circuit was not claimed to be OU, Duncan thought it might be, but I think not. If you can show some OU then do it. I dare you to claim some OU here. ..

TinMan	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #176 on: 2015-04-11, 01:09:03 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	@ Farmhand I measured current both before and after the cap. If V&I are measured befor the cap,you get no phase difference,if I is measured after the cap,then you get the phase difference.If we measure V&I on the DC side,we see an inphase relationship. This is ofcourse the power avaliable from your math trace shot. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #177 on: 2015-04-11, 01:41:21 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	This test was carried out as per the diagram supplied by Duncan. The last 8 hours has been via way of main.s voltage-no transformer. But first with the transformer. We had a supply voltage of around 32V from the transformer,and we had a 4uF cap in series with the output and FWBR. The reactance of a 4uF capacitor at 50Hz is 1/(2pif*C),so that is around 796 ohms. 32/796 is a current of 40mA. So our battery was being trickle charged with close to 1 watt-how ever our watt meter showed around a .3 watt increase-->but the power factor was also a far cry from one due to the transformer. There is also the dissipated power in the resistors to be taken into account,along with the FWBR diode's. We must also take into account the battery voltage and internal resistance of the unhealthy battery. So all things being equal,the .3 watt increase shown on the meter is very close to correct,and this was confirmed with my DMM's Due to the high internal resistance of the battery,i was able to use mains voltage in the setup without causing to much havoc. The current used when using mains voltage comes down to the size of your cap. If you are going to use mains on a healthy battery that would have an internal resistance of around .6 ohms,then i recommend you start with a 1uF cap,and work your way up in cap value. Remember as TK pointed out,flooded led acid batteries give of hydrogen gas when charging,so good ventilation is a must-->and make sure all connections(including battery terminals) are well insulated for high voltage applications. The reason for this simple test was to see if any anomalies were seen. What was found is that although a battery in bad condition may not hold a good charge at it's rated voltage,can hold a very good charge at around half it's rated voltage-as has been seen over the last two days.This is a first for me,as a bad or heavily sulphated battery will deliver some current for a short time at it's rated voltage,and then die very fast all the way down to 0 volt's. In this case,i have a 12 volt battery that drop's off rapidly when a load is applied,but is good for 6-7 volts for some time-->two days in this case with a 12 watt load. The end result after two days of testing is as expected. We are now supplying the battery with 2.1 watts from the mains,and the load output(glob) has settled at exactly 2.1 watts-->it's actually close to 2 watts dissipated power through the globe,so i would expect some small loss in the system,like heating of the battery,cap losses,etc. Conclusion: Everything going into the system is accounted for,and no anonymous effects have been seen other than a battery effect. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

poynt99	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #178 on: 2015-04-11, 01:52:37 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Brad, forgive me, but I thought you said before that the load was dissipating 12 or 13W, now you're saying it is dissipating only 2.1W? And are you now able to explain the next to no difference in input power with and without the load? --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

TinMan	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #179 on: 2015-04-11, 02:09:40 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: poynt99 on 2015-04-11, 01:52:37 Brad, forgive me, but I thought you said before that the load was dissipating 12 or 13W, now you're saying it is dissipating only 2.1W? And are you now able to explain the next to no difference in input power with and without the load? Poynt Did you read the last post i posted?,i thought that explained it very clearly . The battery had a very large (unexpected )capacity at half it's rated voltage. So all in all,the battery was supplying the power to the load for nearly two day's,and then last night in a matter of minutes,the battery died a quick death. As i stated in my last post,the battery voltage settled to a voltage where the supplied power to the load(light bulb ) equal's the supplied input power of the watt meter-->all P/in and P/out is accounted for There is no special effect happening with this system. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #180 on: 2015-04-11, 02:37:23 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	@ Poynt I should explain a little more why i spent the last two days testing a device that we assumed was nothing special. If you recall,you spent a lot of time with me on a device that i thought had something special going on within it. And as you know,after weeks(as expected by you) there was no anomalies effects going on. Duncan seemed to think that this simple setup would show some sort of anomaly,so i did as you did with me-spent some time on it,and showing why long testing and measurements are important. The reason we couldn't measure the supposedly extra output,was because we couldn't know or see what the battery was doing. My assumption was(through past experience with sulphated batteries) that if the voltage dropped fast from its rated voltage when a load was applied,then it would continue to drop of rapidly right down to 0 volts-with that load applied(as i have seen time and time again). Here is where the confusion started. Without the circuit running,and the load was applied to the battery,the battery did drop off quite fast. My mistake was only letting it drop down to around 9 volt's with load attached,thinking that it would continue to drop down to nothing at the same rate. So i disconnected the load,and hooked up the cap charging circuit,then reapplied the load. I then found it odd that the battery would drop to around 8-9 volt's and then stop there with the circuit hooked up. After many hours of drawing 12-13 watts from the battery,and only supplying it with .3-.5 watt's,i started to think that there may actually be something interesting going on here. At this point in time ,i had no idea that the battery(unlike other times) had the ability to maintain that output for such a length of time at 8 to 9 volts. As has been seen in this test,it took two days for the battery to drop off with that load attached. And it dropped over 4 volts in a matter of minute's-->i actually caught this drop on video. I have never seen a battery maintain that output for so long and then drop off so rapidly. This was more of something you see with nicad's,not lead acid batteries. Anyway,after two days of testing,we have our answer-->and that is,all is as we expected other than this new found battery effect-->well new to me anyway-and only with this battery. I tried another quick test with another sulphated battery of the same size and type this morning,and it dropped steadily from 12.2 volts right down until the load reached the input supplied power from the cap charger. This only took around 15 minute's to happen. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Duncan	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #181 on: 2015-04-11, 03:43:20 »
Hero Member Posts: 702	Well half a dozen beers and a Chinese take a way .. life is blessed! Don’t panic there is nothing unexpected . What you are seeing is just what I did. If it was as simple as throwing a capacitor in front of a battery every one would have had free energy long long ago. Folks have been charging batteries like that for a 100 years if not more. I asked you not to get your hopes up prematurely and explained that this was a strong indication of what is required . And its proved so. I needed your help and attention with this hypothoses that is just a step forward to show that 'there is something of merit' worthy of your time and trouble, (which I thank you very much for ). I would like you to think this ' If this thing works I want to know how and why it works I want to be able to engineer it' There is no point trying to build something that isn't understood at all ! You have seen that it can work, that it might be possible thats all ! Ready to move on ? >>>> Tptb are well aware of the situation it is my belief lead acid batteries have been altered over the years and as you are discovering its extremely difficult to hold any battery on its resonant point . I need help with that myself because I don’t know how to write a control loop. Anyway regadless AC and others are questioning resonance quite right . Do you recall I said the subject was taught differently to each trade? I didn't mean wrongly just differently? The technologies have been intentionally split in order to prevent the dots being easily joined together. Effectively 'a need to know basis' consider this … ask any electrician what a capacitor does in a circuit the reply will instantly be “It causes a 90deg phase shift” ask any electronics guy what a 90 deg phase shift causes the reply instantly will be resonance. Ask any radio guy if a capacitor means its at resonance he'll think your a lunatic ! They are taught a much deeper understanding of what resonance is, 'Its need to know' and its a bit they need to know better than other trades to tune an antenna's. amoungst other things. Your quite bright boys and girls does it sound right to you if I expand that 90deg stuff your watching and say “a capacitor of any size in any circuit will make it resonant “ Its outrageous put like that but really all electricians need is basic theory so they know how to phase shift for motors and understand basic power factor its sufficient for what’s required of them! (need to know) Its all they are taught and perhaps you reading this too ! Lets move that a rung up the ladder , when using this circuit how were you checking for resonance? With your oscilloscope of course you can see a 90 deg phase shift, The books say there should be a 90 deg phase shift, you expect a 90 deg phase shift But here's the big question and one that carries us from one trade skill set to another … Is that actually resonance ? To massage your thoughts what your looking at on the oscilloscope has little relationship to whats actually happening. I afraid its another case of a measurists tool that isn't 'fit for purpose' compounded by the idea that a 90 deg phase shift means resonance. Nothing remotely like!! I try to show you just a little something of my Hypothesis and it does what I said it would . Then it stopped. I knew it would , If it was a radio (and it is in a way)I would tell you its drifted off tune. I hope there's a radio ham reading this who might like to answer this simple question in a way that would advance everyone why are linear amps very expensivoue compared to other amps? Its my guess there would be fewer HT grid guys reading this. And of course the very last thing they want is resonance In fact the opposite but the composition of 'dirty power' also has a big part to play . This term 'Resonance' we need to all understand more about it. And understand each other The use of a capacitor is ' In the ball park' and it give's an indication but its nothing.. nothing at all like what I see as true resonance Kind regards Duncan --------------------------- How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ? http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf whilst we know little .. friends remember, In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. D. Erasmus

Duncan	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #182 on: 2015-04-11, 06:36:38 »
Hero Member Posts: 702	Hey Grum .. sorry to hear things are not so good I hope it turns around for you! I'm a bit dubious writing about 240v regarding this rustic set up, I mean its ok for the likes of you and forum members who know what they are about but many others read and Its potentially a killer isn't it ? I suppose crossing the road is too if you don’t know what your doing ! So with the proviso of don’t anybody do this ever !!! (in case the claim people get me) I did! 240 v with one 12v 12 amp/ hour battery bridge and motor run caps . Plexi glass, goggles, gloves and a big stick .. cause I'm a scared y cat ! Keep in mind that if there's no discharge resistor on the cap and the batteries not connected the thing will be at mains potential even when unplugged ! It is pretty amazing to see (and hear) totally buggered batteries popping back into life . You also wonder about big banks of batteries .. Here's my take on that , Lead acid batteries require only two components to charge amps and time , using this circuit what difference one battery or twenty ? The same current will pass through each battery! There is no more energy required regardless of one ,ten, or twenty batteries. And the energy that is required is zero anyway (if you assume true resonance) as I explained Grum Wiseman took it further but here's a guy doing a 120v battery bank to give you the idea . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJA6bHB9jgk Wiseman takes it a step further than that which I'll describe also not for the faint hearted.. he uses a full bank of batteries 240v DC ! Because all are as one .. so to speak . He charges them all up together in series as you’ve just seen. Its quick and uses little power for reasons I've explained George also has the benefit of 'off peak' So he does a quick near resonant charge at night runs his house totally off the batteries all day, anything left in the batteries towards the end of the day he pumps back onto the grid, Then repeats the cycle . Each quarter the electric company have to pay him for the pleasure of running his home which probably pisses them off a tad ! You can read a bit about it if you want http://www.eagle-research.com/cms/store/free-energy/reverse-your-electric-meter-legally As I said there are lots of paths that merit their own thread under this one umbrella and this is another one, whilst I whole heartedly encourage you to give it a go Grum because I know you've worked at HV and on PF et al Still understand I am focused on Clarence s machine and used this system as a stepping stone to try and explain a tiny bit of one corner of a jigsaw. sure you can power your house for free like that right now but its not what your threads about is it ? Its about this machine.. Its actually really about Resonance ! Resonance between us all ! then understanding what it is electrically ,understanding the difference between series and parallel resonance, the make up of resonance, mathematically when I say “series resonance” the picture in my head needs to be the same as the picture in everybody else's and it isn't ! Because of 'need to know' we are like a toddler sent to the shop for a packet of soap powder with only a vague idea of what soap powder is but not wanting to admit it. and then coming back with a packet of cornflakes. … That's how close to resonance we seem to be after all in this experiment if under method I say resonance and get cornflakes Its not going to be a great success is it ? And that certainly doesn't mean I have it all 'off pat' I don't but I think we need to interrogate each other a bit on this one subject which again could run it own thread “What exactly is resonance” ? Kind Regards Duncan « Last Edit: 2015-04-11, 08:13:58 by Duncan » --------------------------- How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ? http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf whilst we know little .. friends remember, In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. D. Erasmus

Duncan	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #183 on: 2015-04-11, 07:52:54 »
Hero Member Posts: 702	All Canadian observed the transformer across the battery and of course he's perceptive I pulled up sharp at transformer anyway remember ? I wrote they do not work as you think they do ! I linked you to Chris Carson. If you consider energy entering the core externally as suggested by Leedskalnin however outrageous it may seem then the theory of the operation of the transformer becomes quite feasible. Still regarding this exercise and this machine recall I pondered where you wished to measure the power ? The phase position is set at the first transformer one side of the transformer being obviously anti-phase to the other .. think of old transformer push pull outputs. some one asked us to 'consider the whole circuit' It may make more sense to folks who know what a Balun does but the grid is a transmission line with standing waves and SWR like any other. I only wanted to show you a taster so I was not really concerned but as resonance is key to success an infinite impedance feeder would be best, we can't have that so the greatest distance to the next transformer (substation) is the next best thing. As I have pointed out I did this at 240v and I didn't like doing it over much! I'm just very grateful guys are trying it as best they can. and to do it in such a way they feel safe and comfortable is big for me! So if someone’s uncomfortable with this agricultural circuit Its fine by me! I’ve worked around 11Kv live and I know Grum has too! But exploding batteries , capacitors , and live ends are not much fun if it all goes wrong , But it didn't kind regards Duncan --------------------------- How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ? http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf whilst we know little .. friends remember, In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. D. Erasmus

TinMan	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #184 on: 2015-04-11, 08:06:18 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Here is the final video and results on this setup. thing to note about my watt meter. Power factor is normally between 0 and 1. With my watt meter you will see 01 to 99. 01 is 1 and 99 is 0,so the lower the number the better the power factor is-->closer to 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pv7ecENsOk --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Aking.21	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #185 on: 2015-04-11, 09:49:46 »
Sr. Member Posts: 420	Duncan: Will this work from an inverter? Or are we messing with the power factor that the power companies are actually paying for? --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Duncan	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #186 on: 2015-04-11, 10:27:29 »
Hero Member Posts: 702	Thank you tinman dying a fast ans horrible death yeah I killed quite a few myself ! It seems to be Internal heating that does them to the death ! I started putting thermistors on all sides at one time to prevent that happening . Of course the only thing that can possibly cause heat is energy and resonance consumes no energy. Ergo that battery was not resonant!. Which has to happen sometime as its constantly changing conditions at the coal face. Leave any battery on there like that and it will die. IMHO you had it to bang to rights when you said it was doing something out of the ordinary in the middle of your testing and you correctly said through that period you had no way of knowing what was happening inside the battery. Well its exactly that effect and that part of the charge curve that has my attention . I can see you have projects and idea's aplenty bubbling up ready to go ! Still I believe there is much more to see here yet! IMHO for a considerable time that battery delivered more energy than it received . You on the other hand think that energy must have been latent in the battery, because that’s the only plausible explanation that makes sense But. I'm not chasing plausible I'm hounding the extraordinary ! I think you’ve just had a very quick glimpse of it but I can't and dont blame you for not believing it.. The sums say it should happen, quite a few have seen it happen with batteries icing up I have only seen that once .. but once is enough!.Just for once this little bit is a case of engineering something to do exactly what the books say should happen. I am going to pursue the hypotheses and try and open up the mystery of resonance inside the battery because I think its important to what Clarence is doing. It probably doesn't seem like it to you as you've just watched a battery keel over which is never much fun but connected like that in that situation and run like that its inevitable. I have a picture of a old age pensioner being forced to do a marathon with a cattle prod. And when the poor old bugger falls down dead Ah he was no good! I hope you keep reading what I write tinman and correct, inject , test or help in any way you can. I have a way to go and any constructive help is really appreciated much thanks Kind regards Duncan. --------------------------- How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ? http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf whilst we know little .. friends remember, In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. D. Erasmus

TinMan	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #187 on: 2015-04-11, 10:38:51 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: Duncan on 2015-04-11, 10:27:29 Thank you tinman dying a fast ans horrible death yeah I killed quite a few myself ! It seems to be Internal heating that does them to the death ! I started putting thermistors on all sides at one time to prevent that happening . Of course the only thing that can possibly cause heat is energy and resonance consumes no energy. Ergo that battery was not resonant!. Which has to happen sometime as its constantly changing conditions at the coal face. Leave any battery on there like that and it will die. IMHO you had it to bang to rights when you said it was doing something out of the ordinary in the middle of your testing and you correctly said through that period you had no way of knowing what was happening inside the battery. Well its exactly that effect and that part of the charge curve that has my attention . I can see you have projects and idea's aplenty bubbling up ready to go ! Still I believe there is much more to see here yet! IMHO for a considerable time that battery delivered more energy than it received . You on the other hand think that energy must have been latent in the battery, because that’s the only plausible explanation that makes sense But. I'm not chasing plausible I'm hounding the extraordinary ! I think you’ve just had a very quick glimpse of it but I can't and dont blame you for not believing it.. The sums say it should happen, quite a few have seen it happen with batteries icing up I have only seen that once .. but once is enough!.Just for once this little bit is a case of engineering something to do exactly what the books say should happen. I am going to pursue the hypotheses and try and open up the mystery of resonance inside the battery because I think its important to what Clarence is doing. It probably doesn't seem like it to you as you've just watched a battery keel over which is never much fun but connected like that in that situation and run like that its inevitable. I have a picture of a old age pensioner being forced to do a marathon with a cattle prod. And when the poor old bugger falls down dead Ah he was no good! I hope you keep reading what I write tinman and correct, inject , test or help in any way you can. I have a way to go and any constructive help is really appreciated much thanks Kind regards Duncan. I will be more than happy to help in any way i can. Cheers --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Farmhand	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #188 on: 2015-04-11, 10:41:38 »
Group: Guest	Could it be that individual cells are going "offline" and that causes a stepping drop ? Like it drops from say 7.4 volts to 5.5 volts because another cell goes "offline". Being that the cells are not "equalized" some will still have charge when others deplete and the chemical action in the depleted cells maybe ceases, then in some cases it may start again for a while until the cell is completely depleted. I know the battery was bad, but I would like to say that with healthy batteries to get the best from a Lead acid battery every now and then an "Equalizing" charge should be done. After an Equalizing charge the battery cells can be tested to see their individual "health" kind of thing. If one cell is bad then the battery can give power for a little while at over 12 volts then drop down to 10 or 11 volts and stay there a long time. Tinman, good work putting the hurt on that battery.

TinMan	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #189 on: 2015-04-11, 10:58:24 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: Farmhand on 2015-04-11, 10:41:38 Could it be that individual cells are going "offline" and that causes a stepping drop ? Like it drops from say 7.4 volts to 5.5 volts because another cell goes "offline". Being that the cells are not "equalized" some will still have charge when others deplete and the chemical action in the depleted cells maybe ceases, then in some cases it may start again for a while until the cell is completely depleted. I know the battery was bad, but I would like to say that with healthy batteries to get the best from a Lead acid battery every now and then an "Equalizing" charge should be done. After an Equalizing charge the battery cells can be tested to see their individual "health" kind of thing. If one cell is bad then the battery can give power for a little while at over 12 volts then drop down to 10 or 11 volts and stay there a long time. I think the voltage drop's and rises were a result of sulphide flakes falling or dissolving from the plates as battery temperature rose. This is why you see a voltage rise on batteries that are badly sulphated when a load is applied to them. Quote Tinman, good work putting the hurt on that battery . I think putting the hurt on the battery may have actually done it good. It is now on a standard charger,and when first hooked up,it peg-ed the charger amp meter,and the charger had to cycle for 1/2 hour before it could remain on full time. It now has been taking 1.5 amps for the last 3 hour's >before the test it wouldn't take any more that 80 to 100mA,and then the charge would drop off as soon as disconnected from the charger. We may have a good pulse charging /reconditioning system at the very least --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Farmhand	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #190 on: 2015-04-11, 11:10:57 »
Group: Guest	Yep a complete discharge can also "Equalize" a batteries cells. I would say that more than one thing was going on in there. A full discharge is a last resort for a lead acid battery, but for NiCad's it is the norm. ..

Duncan	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #191 on: 2015-04-11, 11:21:34 »
Hero Member Posts: 702	Aking your concern for the power companies is quite touching and I assume your thinking of the already operating system of Georges where he already runs his house for free and is in fact paid by the power company? The first thing to acknowledge is if your using any reactive current you are at best introducing capacitive load which the grid desperately requires they should be paying you for raising the power factor quite apart from anything else If you are thinking of Clarence s machine for that to work (as I see it ) It needs two text book pukka formulas to be engineered to work one is P =VI cos φ and the other that LA batteries require Amps x hours and yes the current will be reactive . The whole globe has thousands of amps circulating naturally all the time it is reactive current AKA magnetic current . The shit we get from the grid also de-grades into magnetic current sometimes quite huge circulating in the neutral and earth ( which is pretty much one and the same connection) .. research triplins if your interested So it brings up the question of who owns these huge natural circulating currents ? Moray used them and had to travel miles away from power stations or radio transmitters to run his machine even so the power companies still tried to insist he was stealing power. Just as folks are saying Clarance is (he isn't) yes the theory says it should run on an inverter . It also uses reactive current AKA Magnetic current avaliable for free in copious ammounts . Magnetic current is natural it is the planets battery . The stuff we use is a horrid abortion! You got taught this at primary school didn't you ? 1. Einstein — 'Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another there's not a watt more or less than ever there has been ! It changes to Magnetic current and then by slight of hand we pay for the same energy over and over again . Who owns and controls magnetic current ? Who owns the air , the sea and the rain ? --------------------------- How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ? http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf whilst we know little .. friends remember, In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. D. Erasmus

Aking.21	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #192 on: 2015-04-11, 13:12:05 »
Sr. Member Posts: 420	Tinman: I was going to suggest that you charge the battery normally. I have most of John Debini's videos and he shows this very same effect in one of them. He talks about electron holes being created in the battery and by recharging it normally (with a bit of a struggle) he perfectly reconditions it. So there's a prediction for ya. --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

Aking.21	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #193 on: 2015-04-11, 13:13:39 »
Sr. Member Posts: 420	Duncan: I don't have any sympathy for the power companies lol. It's staying out of jail that concerns me. Selfish as usual I guess. --------------------------- Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd plate?

TinMan	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #194 on: 2015-04-11, 13:25:52 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: Aking.21 on 2015-04-11, 13:12:05 Tinman: I was going to suggest that you charge the battery normally. I have most of John Debini's videos and he shows this very same effect in one of them. He talks about electron holes being created in the battery and by recharging it normally (with a bit of a struggle) he perfectly reconditions it. So there's a prediction for ya. Already done--battery is fully charged now. So will let sit for an hour,and do a load rundown test on it. Hudini doesn't know much about the things he dose. Battery plates start with a flat surface,and over time,these plates form a sulphide layer on them,and capacity drop's. The high voltage high current pulses do to the sulphide layer what a sand blaster dose to rust on a metal plate-it cleans the sulphide lay off. The trick is to know when to stop,as like you would with the sand blaster,if you keep on blasting you eventually blow holes in the plates. Battery capacity can actually be increase slightly this way,as the plates end up having more surface area when the surface is pitted insted of smooth-thus actually increasing active plate surface area of each battery plate-but only a slight increase. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Chet K	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #195 on: 2015-04-11, 13:34:12 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Well David has seen more than his fair share of Super long run times with no true explanation. One thing which jumps out at "me" is in an odd way these hard to reproduce claims are also happening with the Cold fusion guys and hydrogen....and if you follow the latest MO from almost all the cold fusion groups nano cracks or shapes which cause the hydrogen great stress [they get beat up and trapped in them] are the the source of excess energy . here is a recent comment from David B I have restored dozens of batteries to working condition using the 3BGs, so I am well aware that batteries can be brought back to life from a sulfated condition. That is one of the pain in the butt aspects of this thing. It restores batteries I want to stay bad, because when they were 'bad" I was getting excess energy. I have said that many, many times if you bother to read through the thread. Over 20 people who have replicated the 3BGS over the years have gotten their 3 batteries to run loads that have exceeded the available amp hours of their batteries by several times and at the end of such runs, in MANY cases, the batteries were still fully charged. In some cases the primaries had gone down, but they had still exceeded the energy available by several times. In a few cases, the loads which should have exhausted that available energy in a matter of hours ran for as long as three weeks. Then it quit for no reason. In over eight years of testing I have had such runs myself on a several occasions. I have put eight years into this, and I have a pretty good idea of how long a 7.5 amp hour battery will will run an inverter with a 100 watt bulb attached. Unless you see this for yourself, I do not expect you to believe it, which is why I began this thread in the first place. Having serious doubts is your right. You are absolutely right to be skeptical. In the interest of honesty I should also disclose that MANY people have seen absolutely nothing when they put together this setup. But in those cases I have to wonder if they followed the step by step directions in Post #1 and got the RIGHT dead battery. If they didn't, I wouldn't EXPECT them to get any results. from here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/10610-3-battery-generating-system.html

Grumage	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #196 on: 2015-04-11, 16:04:27 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2765	Dear All. I found the battery that was last used some 7 years ago on my " you know who " Cole motor. It has lain untouched under the bench and just showed a Volt!! ( 12 v 7 ah Gel cell ) Transformer used is a Toroidal 240/12/12 V Secondaries in series into a standard 50 A FWBR. This battery would never achieve 12 v no matter how I tried to charge it. Well, this system works!! Coming up on 24 hrs I have now got 12.2 v and it can drive a 21 W incandescent happily!! ( Not done prolonged test yet, to come later ) An interesting point is that my plug in watt meter is showing 2 W transformer idle and 3.1W total with 11 microfarad series capacitance, Unity PF. If I disconnect the battery the PF falls to 0.8 Lag. What are your thoughts as regards the PF correction through the transformer? Cheers Grum. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

TinMan	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #197 on: 2015-04-11, 16:34:25 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: Grumage on 2015-04-11, 16:04:27 Dear All. I found the battery that was last used some 7 years ago on my " you know who " Cole motor. It has lain untouched under the bench and just showed a Volt!! ( 12 v 7 ah Gel cell ) Transformer used is a Toroidal 240/12/12 V Secondaries in series into a standard 50 A FWBR. This battery would never achieve 12 v no matter how I tried to charge it. Well, this system works!! Coming up on 24 hrs I have now got 12.2 v and it can drive a 21 W incandescent happily!! ( Not done prolonged test yet, to come later ) An interesting point is that my plug in watt meter is showing 2 W transformer idle and 3.1W total with 11 microfarad series capacitance, Unity PF. If I disconnect the battery the PF falls to 0.8 Lag. What are your thoughts as regards the PF correction through the transformer? Cheers Grum. This setup dose make for a good charger,and seems my battery is very usable. I have done a quick load test,drawing about 15 watts,and the battery is holding up well so far. It was complete junk before the 2 day hammering it got. As for the power factor thing,well 0 is bad and 1 is good i believe. My meter has an odd power factor reading in that 01 is 1 and 99 is 0. So the inductive load will throw your power factor out a bit,and the cap may just be pulling it back in?-->IDK,maybe Poynt or ION could help out here,as i would like to know as well,so as experimental data is correct. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Grumage	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #198 on: 2015-04-11, 17:27:51 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2765	Dear TinMan. Just to be clear my Wattmeter appears to be calibrated in deg's. 100 being unity. So with the battery disconnected I was seeing 0.8 deg lag. Cheers Grum. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Farmhand	Re: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence « Reply #199 on: 2015-04-11, 17:34:03 »
Group: Guest	The series cap acts as a power restriction because only so much power can transferred with each half cycle. the bigger the cap the more power can be passed, the capacitor also prevents from short circuit so if two caps are used one in each line then even if one shorts the other will still prevent a catastrophe. I would suggest a fuse just in case if leaving the setup unattended. Otherwise what happens if the cap fails shorted ? One of my Killa watt meters reads in real power in watts as well as shows the power factor, the other one doesn't show any power factor but reads in real power watts with more resolution. I realize you guys already know how your meters read but some people might take the real watts and apply the power factor to it. Maybe some meters read VA and give power factor not sure, anythings possible. My one that shows power factor reads 100 as a power factor of 1. and so forth.. Anyway, I've said for a long time that a big part of desulfating a battery is discharging it as well as charging it, as long as some charge can be trickled into the battery somehow and then discharge it it will eventually rejuvenate. Some ways are much faster than others and some more efficient some not so hard on the battery.

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