Water enhanced fuel system.

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2024-11-28, 18:31:10
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Author Topic: Water enhanced fuel system. (Read 16782 times)

TinMan	Water enhanced fuel system. « on: 2015-03-28, 05:37:04 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	In this project we are turning back time,and going to see just how long ago water could have been to increase efficiencies of the ICE. We are not talking %5,10% or even 20%,we are talking 50% plus increases in efficiency by adding water-->and we are going to make it even harder by using a very old stationary engine that i picked up today. We will also be switching over to a diesel engine after we have completed this first project. This first video is just showing the engine we will be using for the project. It is a sundial type B. It was manufactured in the 1940"s,and is a 2HP engine. But first we must get it running. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE6xBjwq_kI --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #1 on: 2015-03-28, 11:47:20 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Here is the second video. Seems we have some dramas with the magneto,but all fixed now. Exaust valve timing seems a bit advanced as well,seems to open the exaust to soon i think?. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCcIZDGFvAE --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Grumage	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #2 on: 2015-03-28, 13:25:58 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Dear Tinman. You have joined the world I spent my whole adult life with !! The Stationary engine. For goodness sake don't modify the exhaust cam, make a new one, that engine is worth well over $1000.00 AU !! Manufactured by Massey Harris Pty Ltd, Sunshine, Victoria, Australia. A veritable youngster compared to some of my collection at over a 100 years old. How I envy your climate, most magnetos here in the UK would require a rewind at that age !! Looking forward to your experiments. Cheers Grum. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

TinMan	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #3 on: 2015-03-28, 15:21:06 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: Grumage on 2015-03-28, 13:25:58 Dear Tinman. You have joined the world I spent my whole adult life with !! The Stationary engine. For goodness sake don't modify the exhaust cam, make a new one, that engine is worth well over $1000.00 AU !! Manufactured by Massey Harris Pty Ltd, Sunshine, Victoria, Australia. A veritable youngster compared to some of my collection at over a 100 years old. How I envy your climate, most magnetos here in the UK would require a rewind at that age !! Looking forward to your experiments. Cheers Grum. Hi Grum these motors are quite common over here-i dont think you would get a grand for them here. I only paid $100.00 for this one,and the bloke i got it from has around 300 different old school motors in his shed. He has some with names i have never heard of-like a superior and a wiscona/pep,which i presume became the wisconsin ?. The good news is,there all for sale,and i intend on getting some more . Dont worry,i will be making my own cam plate,so as i keep the original intact. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Slider2732	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #4 on: 2015-03-28, 17:26:06 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Am really enjoying your vids of this. The engine reminds me of an old English Traction Engine, with its large flywheels. Its design is really simple, but, also gives that ability to see exactly what the thing is doing as it runs. A quick question. Does a corrosion inhibitor have to be mixed with the water ?. Just wondering about a sitting engine after the tests. Or, maybe it can be flushed with something if it will sit ? --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Grumage	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #5 on: 2015-03-28, 17:58:41 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Quote from: Slider2732 on 2015-03-28, 17:26:06 Am really enjoying your vids of this. The engine reminds me of an old English Traction Engine, with its large flywheels. Its design is really simple, but, also gives that ability to see exactly what the thing is doing as it runs. A quick question. Does a corrosion inhibitor have to be mixed with the water ?. Just wondering about a sitting engine after the tests. Or, maybe it can be flushed with something if it will sit ? Dear Slider2732. R A Lister and co were fitting water injection to their Paraffin / Kerosene engines as far back as the 1920's. It was found to help reduce " Pinking " ( pre ignition knock ). Paraffin is so slow to burn that the ignition could be up to 20 Deg BTDC causing hellish clanking !! By injecting water through a drip feed on the inlet manifold the noise would almost stop. I have a number of these engines which still run today, no problems with cylinder corrosion or crankcase, for that matter !! Provided the water is turned off a little before shutting down any steam will have well and truly been purged. I have attached a photo of some of my Lister's that reside at the Anson Engine museum. Cheers Grum. ------------------------ Water enhanced fuel system. Lister-Blackstone_sign_and_engines_IMG_2666.JPG (304.3 kB, 1920x1280 - viewed 863 times.) --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

TinMan	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #6 on: 2015-03-29, 00:18:48 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Here is a diesel engine running on over 50% water-->they are also using a catalyst. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfhacTEcZhE --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Chet K	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #7 on: 2015-03-29, 00:56:49 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	TinMan As I recall there is a huge difference between Gas and diesel with these claims Johan Oostrom could Mix 30% Water in Diesel due to the higher compression, never worked in gasoline. « Last Edit: 2015-03-31, 15:10:58 by Chet K »

Slider2732	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #8 on: 2015-03-29, 03:43:52 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Thanks Graham, even my wife said that was very cool information as I read it. Yes, that makes sense to newbie me...switch off the water just before the regular fuel. All could be made automatic. Those engines are incredible, i'd never seen such a type before and now I see loads of TinMan engines all in one place --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

TinMan	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #9 on: 2015-03-29, 10:10:17 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Have the engine running,but have a couple of problems-one maybe major. 1st-when i fill the water jacket with water,it gets sucked into the cylinder. 2nd-the governing system broke while running-can be fixed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxR0tZ2s6tM --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Slider2732	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #10 on: 2015-03-29, 16:39:06 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	It was really good to see and hear it running I see the point of the big wheels now, for the battery charging hookup. Hopefully you got a fair bit of charge into that battery before she let go and could check how its performing. Is it possible to replace that pipe with stainless ? Looks 'well knackered' and rusted up, but I presume that's the fuel inlet. It may be a good idea to line the water jacket with car underseal or something else protective. Just thinking that if there are cracks or porous areas when there's water in there and the vacuum pulls the water inside. As usual, these are newbie thoughts --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Grumage	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #11 on: 2015-03-29, 19:46:31 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Quote from: Slider2732 on 2015-03-29, 16:39:06 It was really good to see and hear it running I see the point of the big wheels now, for the battery charging hookup. Hopefully you got a fair bit of charge into that battery before she let go and could check how its performing. Is it possible to replace that pipe with stainless ? Looks 'well knackered' and rusted up, but I presume that's the fuel inlet. It may be a good idea to line the water jacket with car underseal or something else protective. Just thinking that if there are cracks or porous areas when there's water in there and the vacuum pulls the water inside. As usual, these are newbie thoughts Dear Slider2732. The rusty tube is used to lubricate the piston, cylinder and little end bearing all from a nifty " Sight feed lubricator " screwed onto the end. I am hoping, for Tinman's sake, that the cylinder liner is not cracked. This is a common problem with these engines when left full of water and winter comes !! All Lister engines were fitted with a brass plate that read, " In frosty weather drain cylinder jacket every night " Unfortunately most of my collection had sustained some form of frost damage !! I really like this thread, two of my favourite hobbies in one place !! Cheers Grum. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

TinMan	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #12 on: 2015-03-29, 22:28:59 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: Grumage on 2015-03-29, 19:46:31 Dear Slider2732. The rusty tube is used to lubricate the piston, cylinder and little end bearing all from a nifty " Sight feed lubricator " screwed onto the end. I am hoping, for Tinman's sake, that the cylinder liner is not cracked. This is a common problem with these engines when left full of water and winter comes !! All Lister engines were fitted with a brass plate that read, " In frosty weather drain cylinder jacket every night " Unfortunately most of my collection had sustained some form of frost damage !! I really like this thread, two of my favourite hobbies in one place !! Cheers Grum. Grum We dont get cold enough wether here to freeze water,so i dont think that will be the case. There are some very thin spots on the water jacket around the cylinder though,but im still hoping that it's just the oil tube that has rotted-thats an easy fix . Worse case cenario is that we have to switch over to a modern motor-i have many of them. I may be able to coat the water jacket with devcon,but we'll find the problem first. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Chet K	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #13 on: 2015-04-03, 12:06:16 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	TinMan I can't wait for tomorrow.... {water fuel race day in Australia ] here is the link which we will be discussing once Graham starts the topic. Clarence replication of Barbosi and Leal http://www.overunity.com/13721/energy-from-the-ground-self-powered-generator-by-barbosa-and-leal/msg444740/#new

TinMan	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #14 on: 2015-04-03, 12:27:12 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: Chet K on 2015-04-03, 12:06:16 TinMan I can't wait for tomorrow.... {water fuel race day in Australia ] here is the link which we will be discussing once Graham starts the topic. Clarence replication of Barbosi and Leal http://www.overunity.com/13721/energy-from-the-ground-self-powered-generator-by-barbosa-and-leal/msg444740/#new Yes,we will be running a gocart with a standard engine on 30% water to start with,as i have found a higher % of water results in killing the spark. None the less,the load will be the same,and a longer run time is expected in way of distance traveled at the same set speed. As far as that Barbosi&Leal stuff go's-->well i have read the last 10 pages on OU(the link you provided),and i see nothing in there that represents any type of power measurements.Once again it seems that we have a lightbulb OU machine,which he also has a battery charger hooked to . Wont be waisting my time on that one sorry,as i will be devoting all my time to my water as fuel project's-->oh,and a neat little transformer device that uses a newly wound transformer i designed. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Chet K	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #15 on: 2015-04-03, 21:17:13 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	TinMan no worries ...,I'm on deck for the Clarence build ,just a few more questions need answering and Hoppy seems to be asking them, no need for me to be redundant and fill that thread with questions . However regarding your water fuel run in a completely unmodified Rig at 30 % water to Petrol ratio. [and I know your only getting warmed up at 30%] that's wizard territory .... Perhaps there is a wizard in OZ after all ......... Chet K

PhysicsProf	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #16 on: 2015-04-06, 15:01:27 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3017	Good stuff, Tinman! "Water fuel race day in Australia" -- are many Aussies using or playing with water fuel? " i will be devoting all my time to my water as fuel project's-->oh,and a neat little transformer device that uses a newly wound transformer i designed. " Would like to see that transformer, as you have time! Thanks, mate.

TinMan	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #17 on: 2015-04-06, 17:05:14 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2015-04-06, 15:01:27 Good stuff, Tinman! "Water fuel race day in Australia" -- are many Aussies using or playing with water fuel? " i will be devoting all my time to my water as fuel project's-->oh,and a neat little transformer device that uses a newly wound transformer i designed. " Would like to see that transformer, as you have time! Thanks, mate. Race day tomorrow hopfully lol. With easter and all,things have been a family affair over here ATM. Im not aware of anyone else playing with water as fuel here in OZ,but that's not to say there arnt any. I am actually building a pulse motor ATM for a few guys on my old forum,and i will be trying out the new coil design when it's completed. Each coil pack is of a modular design,so easy to remove one,and fit another --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Grumage	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #18 on: 2015-04-07, 21:54:08 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Dear All. We had a bit of a play over Easter Sunday !! I got my 98 year old Petter lamp start Paraffin engine running. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV4pM9WU374 Also videoed an 1888 carrier flame ignition Otto Crossley starting up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beIW4E4Emmk Cheers Grum. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

TinMan	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #19 on: 2015-04-08, 04:55:26 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: Grumage on 2015-04-07, 21:54:08 Dear All. We had a bit of a play over Easter Sunday !! I got my 98 year old Petter lamp start Paraffin engine running. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV4pM9WU374 Also videoed an 1888 carrier flame ignition Otto Crossley starting up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beIW4E4Emmk Cheers Grum. Those are some nice engines you have there Grum. Im hoping to build up my collection over time,but ATM i only have two lol Now i heard some time ago,you had some success running a diesel engine on a % of water? It's been raining here since lunch yesterday,so im stuck in the shed trying to electricute myself again lol. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Chet K	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #20 on: 2015-04-08, 10:45:16 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	I really love that fire breathing Monster he has there, How old is That one Graham ? BTW Johan Oostrom sent me this the other day ,with a comment "at least not everyone is asleep? http://www.fiercefuelsystems.com/ you'll notice its only good for the very high [standard] compression Diesel .

evolvingape	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #21 on: 2015-04-08, 11:08:30 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2502 Everyman decries immorality	Quote from: Chet K on 2015-04-08, 10:45:16 BTW Johan Oostrom sent me this the other day ,with a comment "at least not everyone is asleep? http://www.fiercefuelsystems.com/ you'll notice its only good for the very high [standard] compression Diesel . Form the FAQ: Water does not burn, so how much power will the engine loose? There will be negligible loss in HP, but the X2O enhances fuel efficiency due to improved combustion. When a diesel water emulsion (DWE) water molecule that is surrounded with diesel fuel is injected into the hot combustion chamber, the water will super heat and turn into steam. This steam will expand rapidly and disperse the fuel into a fine mist, enabling the fuel to burn more efficiently than regular diesel. The steam actually cools the temperature in the cylinder, which inhibits the nitrogen oxide formation by producing higher concentrations of hydroxyl radicals. The lower temperature from the steam creates a slower burn, reducing the particulate matter or soot from forming. The water molecules help the diesel fuel burn more efficiently, but do not add energy. The gain is through super dispersion of diesel fuel that provides great fuel cost savings and supports the environment. If this technology is genuine (which it probably is) we now know we can coat a water molecule with diesel fuel via the emulsifier acting as the bonding agent.. Can we reverse that and have a gas bubble of fuel and air entrained in a hydraulic water flow ? Would an emulsifier be required to prevent the fuel from separating from the air bubble and floating away ? Any ideas on what emulsifier they are using ? --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs. Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security. Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.

Chet K	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #22 on: 2015-04-08, 14:15:09 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Rob To be clear ..what they have will never work in a Gas /petrol engine. what Brad has will and does ...at a MUCH higher water mix. I suspect they are using "metal soaps" as Johan Oosrtom has been telling us for YEARS Johan Oostrom originally pointed to Braxpeace water fuel blends. here https://sites.google.com/site/braxpeace2/waterinfuelblends And Grum ran some tests last year [when it was still warm] and Chet picked up some one cylinder diesel engines to experiment on.[junk that needs fixing] Both of those investigations were halted by the winter [I still have snow to dig out around my buildings.] My other shop is inside the lower level of my house ,and I got in trouble with the "Boss" for stinking up the entire house with fumes, so I have to work outside [even tho I'm sneaking in a motor Job {Nissan] in the basement as I type. in that case I bleed out the fuel line VERY carefully [so "SHE" can't smell it] , but working with Fuel blends inside the house is a big No No. But to be perfectly Clear...what Brad has is something very special. Chet K

TinMan	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #23 on: 2015-04-08, 15:38:57 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: Chet K on 2015-04-08, 14:15:09 Rob To be clear ..what they have will never work in a Gas /petrol engine. what Brad has will and does ...at a MUCH higher water mix. I suspect they are using "metal soaps" as Johan Oosrtom has been telling us for YEARS Johan Oostrom originally pointed to Braxpeace water fuel blends. here https://sites.google.com/site/braxpeace2/waterinfuelblends And Grum ran some tests last year [when it was still warm] and Chet picked up some one cylinder diesel engines to experiment on.[junk that needs fixing] Both of those investigations were halted by the winter [I still have snow to dig out around my buildings.] My other shop is inside the lower level of my house ,and I got in trouble with the "Boss" for stinking up the entire house with fumes, so I have to work outside [even tho I'm sneaking in a motor Job {Nissan] in the basement as I type. in that case I bleed out the fuel line VERY carefully [so "SHE" can't smell it] , but working with Fuel blends inside the house is a big No No. But to be perfectly Clear...what Brad has is something very special. Chet K Looks like clear skies on froday here Chet. The cart is ready to go-gave it a dry run on blocks today. The one thing i will say is that when i add the catalyst,the exhaust fumes smell quite odd $:-\$ -->kinda like me cooking a cake,right before it catches fire. . I shouldn't try to cook cake's,as i always get busy in the workshop,and forget i had one in the oven-->like today lol. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Grumage	Re: Water enhanced fuel system. « Reply #24 on: 2015-04-08, 19:03:46 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Quote from: TinMan on 2015-04-08, 04:55:26 Those are some nice engines you have there Grum. Im hoping to build up my collection over time,but ATM i only have two lol Now i heard some time ago,you had some success running a diesel engine on a % of water? It's been raining here since lunch yesterday,so im stuck in the shed trying to electricute myself again lol. Dear Tinman. Yes we did !! 50/50 !! http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2583.msg41013#msg41013 Video here..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHM7FMHhyiE More to come when the weather bucks up a bit !! Cheers Grum. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

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