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OverUnity Research > Electrical / Electronic Devices > Solid-State Generators > Partnered Output Coils
2024-11-26, 17:20:16
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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils  (Read 384750 times)
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img  ion
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #500 on: 2015-02-22, 14:59:18 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2015-02-22, 14:43:05
How is that working out for you Chris?

It seems you've edited your document to remove your claim. That's a good start! ;)

Now if he could just get "Free Energy" off the title page the document will be closer to reality and what it is meant to represent.

We await Rev2.6


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  evolvingape
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #501 on: 2015-02-22, 15:32:34 »

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Quote from: ION on 2015-02-22, 14:59:18
Now if he could just get "Free Energy" off the title page the document will be closer to reality and what it is meant to represent.

We await Rev2.6

Setting a goal to achieve is often rewarding, the 1 Watt Challenge has not been won, as far as I know.

http://www.overunity.com/5707/overunity-prize-conditions-for-1-watt-device-pdf-file-attached/#.VOnzfy60SUk

Be back later for you AC.


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Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #502 on: 2015-02-23, 15:20:57 »
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Good Luck - I hope you one day find what you're searching for, I some how doubt you ever will unfortunately!

Since what many of us on this thread and the one at OU dot com were "searching for" was for you to substantiate your claims
of "free energy" with actual data from your system .... I agree. I doubt we ever will find it! In fact I'm sure we won't.
   
img  wattsup
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #503 on: 2015-02-24, 00:22:29 »
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@All

I see so many flaws in this partnered business and I would not know were to start. It would be just too hard to explain since in the pdf it is stated he is using "50Hz 50% Duty Cycle, typical AC Sine wave".

From what I have observed in our coils and the way I see it today, maybe I can run this by you guys regarding what AC actually does inside a coil. If you put your scope probe (only) on each end of an AC supply you will see one lead with the sinewave and the other as a flat line neutral? Of course if you then scope with the probe and ground, you will again see the same sinewave because it is now a differential waveform where you look at the difference between the neutral side zero and the hot shifting side.

But I am suspecting that is not the reality of how this impulse is dispersed inside the coil, which is basically a length of wire. One end of the coil is hot the other is neutral. Since one side is swinging from peak positive to peak negative and the other end is on neutral, the energy or impulse decreases as it goes further through the coil and by consequence you wind up with a regular sloped line to indicate the energy decrease. It winds up that by the time the impulse is half way inside the coil, about 75% of the impulse is gone. This is what I have called many times to be the Half Coil Syndrome.

I took a diagram from @EMJs pdf (hope it's not plagiarism) to show what I mean with a few additions.

Can this observation be considered right or is it wrong and if it is wrong, what is the real impulse dispersion under AC? Maybe we can learn something today. Is there an experiment that could confirm this either way so we can get this question out there, one way or the other, it does not matter to me as long as the information is right and depicts the reality, not at each end of the coil but inside the coil.

The point is, if my diagram is right, then we have been barking up the wrong tree for many years and need to change completely how we see our coils and it explains why we are making the same mistakes. If you need more explanation, let me know but I would really like to have some input from you guys on this as it is I strongly feel this simple question is critical to our works. I am just looking for clues to where we could be going wrong, since I do believe we could reach OU once we know the real rules of the game.

wattsup

PS: If I am completely off the rocker, that's OK also. hahahahaha


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img  NerzhDishual
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #504 on: 2015-02-24, 00:35:40 »
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Quote from: Grumage on 2015-02-21, 16:32:23
..... Roland perchance ??
My preferred weapon of choice, the Korg M1, still going strong at 25 years of age !!
Cheers Grum.

Hi Grumage,

Just only MIDI (I wrote all the notes) and http://www.synthfont.com/
------------------
This one: Keltic_Tune_4_Steorn_by_NerzhDishual.mp3 (attached file)
Is also only MIDI but was 'made' with my now deceased "Home Studio" that comprised a Sampler
and a "Groove Box". My son gave me only one note from his Irish "pipe/piccolo/whistle"(?) the sampler did the rest.

BTW: A tune for Steorn.  :D  These (claimed) Irish Fakers and Boozers. :-X
I must be mad. Yes, I am. >:-)

Bien à toi,
Jean
   
img  NerzhDishual
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #505 on: 2015-02-24, 00:50:17 »
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Hi some Guys,

OK, you won. I quit. I abdicate. I give up. I chuck up the sponge. Etc...
http://dico.isc.cnrs.fr/dico/en/search?b=1&r=quit&send=Look+it+up
-----------------------
Some last words, in French. Just because I'm a Fuckin' Froggy...

Souffrez, Messieurs les fâcheux, les censeurs, les désastreux casse-pieds, les empoisonnants gardiens auto-proclamés de la Vraie Science, les contrariants, les vétilleux pignocheurs pyrrhoniens, les empêcheurs de penser hors des clous, que je vous tirasse ma révérence....

En effet, je me casse, je me trisse, je décarre fissa, je me fais la malle.
« .... je m'en vais ou je m'en vas; l'un et l'autre se dit ou se disent.» ('Père Bouhours' ou bien 'Vaugelas'???)
http://www.dicoperso.com/term/adb0aea5acaba95d,,xhtml
-----------------
Car il est des circonstances, oû l'homme, quelque intelligent qu'il soit, doit optempérer à des situations, qui bien que minimes en apparence, n'en comportent pas moins une valeur réelle et intrinsèque. Car la causalité intemporelle du moi nouménal devant l'universalité trans-historique de la norme confère  une valeur synomique à toute expérience humaine.
------------------
These 2 last sentences do no really mean something. Kinda useless French "philosophy" mimicry (à la con). ;D

For Google translator:
-"tirasse" is the imperfect subjunctive of the verb "tirer"
"Tirer sa révérence" =  "leaving his role",  "stepping aside", "bowing out",  etc.
- "trisse" from "se trisser" = to quikly run away

I have seen that there is an option "Delete this account".
So, I will try a clic...
Bye,
Jean
PS: IMFFHO (In my Fucking Froggy Humble Opinion), there are a lot of honest, nice, easy going, knowledgeable, very good builders, astute experimenters, intuitive thinkers, kinda genious individuals, etc.. etc... here and in some other forums.
   
img  Smudge
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #506 on: 2015-02-24, 15:09:06 »

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Quote from: wattsup on 2015-02-24, 00:22:29
But I am suspecting that is not the reality of how this impulse is dispersed inside the coil, which is basically a length of wire. One end of the coil is hot the other is neutral. Since one side is swinging from peak positive to peak negative and the other end is on neutral, the energy or impulse decreases as it goes further through the coil and by consequence you wind up with a regular sloped line to indicate the energy decrease. It winds up that by the time the impulse is half way inside the coil, about 75% of the impulse is gone. This is what I have called many times to be the Half Coil Syndrome.
I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick there.  You are treating energy in a coil as a product of voltage*current (and since you are talking about energy not power you must also multiply by time) which is OK for the situation where the energy is building up.  But the actual energy is stored as current.  In a perfect coil holding energy where there is no resistance there is no voltage, only current (of course the coil has to be shorted for the current to keep flowing).  So your voltage considerations no longer apply.

When the energy is being supplied from a voltage source connected across the coil you get the situation where the back emf from the rising current opposes the applied voltage so that only the difference between applied and back emf appears across the resistance and that determines the instantaneous value of current.  The math there causes the rise of current to be exponential with the well known L/R time constant.  But at any instant the energy stored is 1/2Li2, voltage does not appear in that formula.  If you wish to apportion that energy to each part of the coil, since the current along the wire is everywhere i, then you simply apportion it according to the chosen length of wire in proportion to the overall length, like 1/2 or 1/4. (Note if there is significant self capacitance in the coil then the current will not be uniform along the wire, but that is another issue).

If you wish to consider not energy stored, but power flow, then you need to include the voltage where for any length x of wire the voltage across that portion is not your "hot" or "cold" but has a value (x/L)*V where L is the overall length and V is the back emf voltage.  If you put voltage across a length of resistance wire the power is uniformly dissipated along the wire, you don't get the "hot" end dissipating more power than the "cold" end.  You take the voltage drop across each element of length, you don't take the absolute voltage.  That is the flaw in your argument.

Smudge
   
img  wattsup
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #507 on: 2015-02-25, 14:25:08 »
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@Smudge

Thank you very much for your comments which have exactly the view I was looking for. I need a coupled of days to prepare a response but just to say for now, voltage is a differential measure while current is a throughput measure, and as a throughput measure will be influenced by the point in the circuit of least throughput.

Like water in a pipe will not flow more then the smallest aperture in the system at a given pressure.

The problem is this does not give us any indication of what exactly is the dispersion in the coil. For a primary on a core, it's like running a 4 piston car engine with a randomized distributor cap. Everything else in our builds is so perfectly controlled but what actually goes on in our multi layered coils is still a major question mark.

I guess one would have to spend many days to answer this and wind multi-layer coils while embedding very small pick up coils or sensors inside that coil with leads coming out to measure the activity in the coil as it is energized. Kind of like Deep Coil Sensing to provide a layer by layer or sector by sector indication. That would be another line of study that I have not seen anywhere. hehehe

I'll be back and thanks again.

wattsup


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Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #508 on: 2015-02-25, 15:02:24 »

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@wattsup

I await your reply with interest.  With regard to your water pipe analogy the flow rate measured in litrer per second is everywhere the same if there are no leaks.  What does change if there are restrictions is the velocity and the pressure.  Same with current it is the same all along the wire.  There the "restriction" is an induced "back pressure" (which is an induced E field) so I think you are looking for the E field profile along the wire. Since that E field comes from the rate of change of flux, we are then looking for a flux profile along the wire.  For a long coil on a toroidal core, under normal circumstances that flux profile is a constant value, the flux is uniform along the core.  Under unusual circumstances, like with bucking coils, that is no longer the case and there will be a variation along the core, hence for a single layer coil from turn to turn.  It is not necessary to do experiments to determine this, we have programs that will tell you the flux profile.  Same goes for long solenoids where we know that the flux in the center is greater than the flux at the ends.  So yes, for such long single layer coils you can ascribe different flux values hence different inductance values and different energy values to sections of the coil.  For multi-layer coils that gets a bit mixed up, but if it was necessary to use this phenomenon you could wind more turns by having a stack of pancake coils so that each pancake has a certain flux value which changes from pancake to pancake.

Smudge
   
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Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #509 on: 2015-02-25, 22:48:36 »
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Quote from: Smudge on 2015-02-24, 15:09:06
I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick there.  You are treating energy in a coil as a product of voltage*current (and since you are talking about energy not power you must also multiply by time) which is OK for the situation where the energy is building up.  But the actual energy is stored as current.  In a perfect coil holding energy where there is no resistance there is no voltage, only current (of course the coil has to be shorted for the current to keep flowing).  So your voltage considerations no longer apply.

When the energy is being supplied from a voltage source connected across the coil you get the situation where the back emf from the rising current opposes the applied voltage so that only the difference between applied and back emf appears across the resistance and that determines the instantaneous value of current.  The math there causes the rise of current to be exponential with the well known L/R time constant.  But at any instant the energy stored is 1/2Li2, voltage does not appear in that formula.  If you wish to apportion that energy to each part of the coil, since the current along the wire is everywhere i, then you simply apportion it according to the chosen length of wire in proportion to the overall length, like 1/2 or 1/4. (Note if there is significant self capacitance in the coil then the current will not be uniform along the wire, but that is another issue).

If you wish to consider not energy stored, but power flow, then you need to include the voltage where for any length x of wire the voltage across that portion is not your "hot" or "cold" but has a value (x/L)*V where L is the overall length and V is the back emf voltage.  If you put voltage across a length of resistance wire the power is uniformly dissipated along the wire, you don't get the "hot" end dissipating more power than the "cold" end.  You take the voltage drop across each element of length, you don't take the absolute voltage.  That is the flaw in your argument.

Smudge

Isn't the energy stored in the magnetic field produced by th current through the coil ?

So does the formula not indicate the energy stored in the magnetic field ?

At the cessation of current when there is no current if the energy was stored in the current there would be no energy.

The current through the coils inductance produces a magnetic field which is where the energy is stored, then when the current is stopped the magnetic field releases the energy.

Doesn't the formula describes how to calculate the energy in the magnetic field that the current through the coil produces ?

Without a potential difference the coil cannot be charged to begin with.

..
   
img  Smudge
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #510 on: 2015-02-26, 11:18:49 »

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Quote from: Farmhand on 2015-02-25, 22:48:36
Isn't the energy stored in the magnetic field produced by th current through the coil ?

So does the formula not indicate the energy stored in the magnetic field ?

At the cessation of current when there is no current if the energy was stored in the current there would be no energy.

The current through the coils inductance produces a magnetic field which is where the energy is stored, then when the current is stopped the magnetic field releases the energy.

Doesn't the formula describes how to calculate the energy in the magnetic field that the current through the coil produces ?

Without a potential difference the coil cannot be charged to begin with.


You are correct and my comments were concerned with the establishment of that energy.  You need current to create the magnetic field, it doesn't exist without that current (we are not talking about PM's here where fixed atomic current loops are present) so the instantaneous energy is related to the instantaneous current.  When you switch your current off, the current in the coil doesn't suddenly stop, it keeps on flowing.  And since you have open circuited the supply it flows into any capacitance across the terminals even if that is just strays, and that creates a (usually very fast) voltage build up across that C.  We try to use that flyback voltage as a means for getting the magnetic field energy out of the coil, but it isn't just voltage, you have to consider the current there that charges the capacitor.  We could quite easily regain that field energy by putting a resistor across the coil so that the instantaneous voltage peak at switch-off is now determined by the coil current suddenly flowing through that R, then we would have a decaying current in the R following the L/R time constant.  Of course in that case the energy all goes as heat in the R which may not be what we want.  So I stand by my "energy stored as current" statement since that current is truly a measure of the field energy.

Smudge
   
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Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #511 on: 2015-02-26, 15:38:29 »
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From Farmhand

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Without a potential difference the coil cannot be charged to begin with.

In a practical real world coil, this is true but it is only because of the resistance of the coil. Were the resistance to go to zero, a potential difference would not be needed, only a current. In the limit analysis it is the current that charges the coil.

e.g. in a superconducting magnet fed from a true current source, no potential difference will exist on the ends of the coil, as it has no resistance, it will be solely the current charging the coil.

We should always strive to eliminate Joule losses introduced by coil resistance in our experiments if we are to approach COP=or>1.

This means the heaviest gauge wire that is practical for a given coil and inductance. This also may mean inordinately large devices, but that is the price to pay if in the search for OU.

This line of thinking applies to e.g. the Cook coil.

Note that many very old DC machines use  large magnet structures of heavy gauge wire to get decent efficiencies. This has been abandoned by modern manufacturing of consumer grade motors,which because of cost, reduce the iron and copper content and allow for higher operating temperatures by using better high temperature insulating materials and higher precision in the machining and tolerances of the magnetic  structure in an attempt to offset the loss of efficient coils. They run hot! The inefficiency and running cost is passed on to the consumer.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #512 on: 2015-02-26, 19:32:11 »

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Quote from: ION on 2015-02-26, 15:38:29
In a practical real world coil, this is true but it is only because of the resistance of the coil. Were the resistance to go to zero, a potential difference would not be needed, only a current. In the limit analysis it is the current that charges the coil.
I think that statement needs some clarification.  To hold the charge in an inductor the only potential you need is because of the resistance of the coil.  But to supply energy to charge the coil there has to be a voltage along with the current else there would be no energy flow.  That voltage does not come from the resistance, it comes form the rising flux in the inductance.  The product of that back emf and current is the instantaneous energy flow rate (power) into the coil.  When the coil is being discharged the product of the back emf and current is the instantaneous energy flow rate (power) out of the coil.

Smudge
   
img  ion
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #513 on: 2015-02-26, 19:40:18 »
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Quote from: Smudge on 2015-02-26, 19:32:11
I think that statement needs some clarification.  To hold the charge in an inductor the only potential you need is because of the resistance of the coil.  But to supply energy to charge the coil there has to be a voltage along with the current else there would be no energy flow.  That voltage does not come from the resistance, it comes form the rising flux in the inductance.  The product of that back emf and current is the instantaneous energy flow rate (power) into the coil.  When the coil is being discharged the product of the back emf and current is the instantaneous energy flow rate (power) out of the coil.

Smudge

I agree, Smudge

I should have been clearer, in my statement I was referring to the steady state fully charged condition.

I said:

"In a practical, real world coil, this is true but it is only because of the resistance of the coil. Were the resistance to go to zero, a potential difference would not be needed, only a current. In the limit analysis it is the current that charges the coil."

I should have said:

 "Were the resistance to go to zero, for the steady state condition a potential difference would no longer be present across the coil terminals. In the limit analysis, it is the current that holds the inductor in its charged state, for the voltage has gone to zero."


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #514 on: 2015-02-27, 01:02:29 »

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Quote from: Smudge on 2015-02-24, 15:09:06
The math there causes the rise of current to be exponential with the well known L/R time constant.  
Uhg, the rise of the current in an LR circuit is inversely exponential.  See here.
Knowing Smudge, I guess that was just a typo.

Quote from: Smudge on 2015-02-24, 15:09:06
But at any instant the energy stored is 1/2Li2, voltage does not appear in that formula.  
Yes, coils are inherently current devices and they should be analyzed in the current domain.
BTW: Capacitors are inherently voltage devices and they should be analyzed in the voltage domain.

I don't even think of artificialities such as EMF and voltage, when solving inductor problems.

The energy stored in a coil can be dumped into a capacitor at any time by opening the coil and connecting a capacitor across it.
That's what we are doing in this experiment.
   
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Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #515 on: 2015-02-27, 15:05:32 »
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From Verpies

Quote
The energy stored in a coil can be dumped into a capacitor at any time by opening the coil and connecting a capacitor across it.

Yes and lest people forget, this is the operating mechanism of billions of switchmode power supplies and CRT flyback supplies going  back far more than half a century.

Your idea of adding motion to the inductor making it a variable inductance adds another dimension to switch mode energy storage / retrieval by making it parametric, e.g. CARA, but a serious question: where do you suppose any extra energy will come from? as the motion induced into the variable inductance structure is also energy dissipated by the L/C circuit.

Kind Regards
ION


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Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #516 on: 2015-02-27, 17:19:57 »
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Yes, coils are inherently current devices and they should be analyzed in the current domain.
BTW: Capacitors are inherently voltage devices and they should be analyzed in the voltage domain.

I don't even think of artificialities such as EMF and voltage, when solving inductor problems.

I would agree however I think we have to ask how far can the conventional line of thinking take us in a relative sense?. For instance someone may have a greater understanding than most people here however know nothing that matters relative to T.H.moray because he supposedly had a working device. It would seem to me that logically an unconventional technology would require unconventional thinking.

I just cannot see how conventional thinking can ever lead to anything extraordinary because fundamentally it is a contradiction in terms. My moment of clarity came to me when I saw a unidentified flying object leave a large hovering craft then accelerate like a bat out of hell straight out of our atmosphere at astronomical speeds and into outer space. No noise, no flames belching from the rear and no vapor trail. I thought... to hell with the silly misguided people down here I want to think like the person in that craft, I want to know what they know. The fact remains that if what were doing is not working then were doing something wrong and it must be something different we have not thought of.

AC


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #517 on: 2015-02-27, 18:24:49 »
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Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015-02-27, 17:19:57
@verpies
I would agree however I think we have to ask how far can the conventional line of thinking take us in a relative sense?. For instance someone may have a greater understanding than most people here however know nothing that matters relative to T.H.moray because he supposedly had a working device. It would seem to me that logically an unconventional technology would require unconventional thinking.

I just cannot see how conventional thinking can ever lead to anything extraordinary because fundamentally it is a contradiction in terms. My moment of clarity came to me when I saw a unidentified flying object leave a large hovering craft then accelerate like a bat out of hell straight out of our atmosphere at astronomical speeds and into outer space. No noise, no flames belching from the rear and no vapor trail. I thought... to hell with the silly misguided people down here I want to think like the person in that craft, I want to know what they know. The fact remains that if what were doing is not working then were doing something wrong and it must be something different we have not thought of.
AC  
This, in my mind is our biggest obstacle.  I keep coming back to the idea of dielectricity, how it's measured and propagation through counterspace (which, it would seem to me our earthly UFO builders have a pretty good handle on).  For what it's worth, a snippet quote from an old EPD borderlands presentation.

Link to some audio -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wiFboM3f2M&feature=player_detailpage#t=28
Quote
When you experiment with a resonating coil, you find that all your magnetism then appears at one end and all your dielectricity appears at the other end, and you have a difference(?) in these electrical discharges which occur off the end of this... which will occur back to the point at which they started from. And you can hook a radio frequency watt meter or amp meter or whatever you want here and there'll be actual initiation of very heavy flows of energy, all of which are reflected back to the coil, except that utilized by the load.

If we look at EPD's Longitudinal Magneto Dielectric exciter, he has to measure the dielectric with a neon bulb - NOT a DMM.  
Starting here, following thru his explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6BnCUBKgnnc#t=1604

What does all this say to our current conceptual framework for trying to understand what's actually happening in the partnered output coils?

Bob

Edit:  Your oppositely wound coils at resonance will find their magnetism appearing at one end, and dielectricity at the other.  The ends with dielectric concentration leaves the dielectric essentially between the facing coil ends, if they're wound properly and at resonance - just as EMJ said.
   
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Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #518 on: 2015-02-27, 21:28:45 »
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I haven't seen what AC saw, but I have heard many similar stories.  Seeing this first hand would clearly change your attitude, unquestionably.  I have said it before:  If you find yourself having to think outside the box, you need a bigger box.

In a word it is "whacked" because I heard all the stories before but just couldn't bring myself to believe them. However when you see it up close and personal there is no mistaking what it is nor what it is doing. It accelerated so damn fast to such an unbelievable velocity then made a sweeping turn upward and then it's just freaking gone into outer space...it was moving that fast. About one to one and a half seconds from relatively low altitude to leaving the Earths atmosphere and out of sight.

As you can imagine when someone me there is no such thing as free energy I have to laugh because they have no idea what their talking about. What I saw makes our best fighter jets look like a donkey cart and makes no noise, no sonic boom, no jet plume or vapor trail.

So the question is who should I believe?, should I believe a person who tells me it is not possible or should I believe what I saw with my own eyes and the other witness to this event standing right next to me. It's no contest and the experts down here aren't actually experts in anything compared to the people who understand the technology I saw, they are on completely different levels.

It makes things easier for me because there is no question it is possible however how they do it remains a mystery for now.

AC


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“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  Bob Smith
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #519 on: 2015-02-27, 22:13:54 »
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Definitely a lot of weird stuff at work in these kinds of technologies. I still think accessing the dielectric and its counterspace medium has a great deal to do with their development and manifestation.  Dielectricity is said to propagate instantaneously, without being bound by the currently understood laws of time, space and physics as we know them.  We know the Russians and Germans did a great deal of work with flying saucers during and after WWII, and much of that technology from Germany made its way to North and South America thru Operation Paperclip.  We can't understand this UFO technology with our current paradigm.  But reading between the lines with certain experimenters and their claimed results that hint at anomalous gravitational effects, we see a kind of glimpse of how this is being made possible.

The wild thing about the UFO technology is that in addition to incredible speed, they have been reported to move in and out of dimensions in air and water.  I think technologies that working within the dielectric realm and scalar forces have a lot to do with it. Scalar vectors and the dielectric realm do not obey commonly understood (and held) laws of physics.

Lest I be misconstrued, AC, I believe what you say, and see it as a kind of witness to the fact that we need to reconsider a lot of stuff we've dismissed or others have dismissed for us as mumbo-jumbo. I think it's all perfectly rational, but we need to expand our conceptual basis for grasping it.
Bob
« Last Edit: 2015-02-27, 23:49:37 by Bob Smith »
   
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Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #520 on: 2015-03-01, 01:39:33 »

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Quote from: ION on 2015-02-27, 15:05:32
Your idea of adding motion to the inductor making it a variable inductance adds another dimension to switch mode energy storage / retrieval by making it parametric, e.g. CARA, but a serious question: where do you suppose any extra energy will come from?
I don't know where from and I don't know if it will come at all.  That's what the CARA experiment is designed to investigate.

If I was to guess, maybe from the same "place" that keeps the perpetual atomic motion.

Quote from: ION on 2015-02-27, 15:05:32
as the motion induced into the variable inductance structure is also energy dissipated by the L/C circuit.
Ideal L/C circuits do not dissipate any energy - only the resistance does.

The L in this circuit is the ratio of magnetic flux per electric current. 
When the ferrite is far away mostly all of the magnetic flux is caused by the current flowing in the coil.
When the ferrite is is close by most of the magnetic flux is caused by atomic currents in the polarized ferrite.
That ferrite polarization energy can be recovered, when the coil is discharged into the capacitor.  Inverting buck-boost power supplies recover over 95% of that energy every day using stationary cores and synchronous rectification.

Whether the mechanical work performed by the polarized ferrite is "for free" remains to be seen.

We do so little real experiments to increase our understanding on this forum.  Mostly we just replicate other people's devices without understanding how they are supposed to work...

The CARA investigation is different.  It's goal is to increase knowledge methodically, with the hope that an anomaly is found ...but nobody besides Itsu wants to participate.  Most likely because it is hard, unexciting work now and when they read that we can recover only ~70% of the energy at the moment, they are just not interested, without even noticing that the motion of the core is not even accounted for at this stage, which is the major point of the entire endeavor.
   
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Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #521 on: 2015-03-01, 14:35:24 »
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It's turtles all the way down
From verpies

Quote
I don't know where from and I don't know if it will come at all.  That's what the CARA experiment is designed to investigate.

If I was to guess, maybe from the same "place" that keeps the perpetual atomic motion.
It is good to have an experiment to try that can hope to satisfy a hypothesis.

Quote
Ideal L/C circuits do not dissipate any energy - only the resistance does.
Yes I am aware of that but was speaking of real world L/C circuits that have coil resistance, connection resistance, and capacitor dissipation factors.

Quote
The L in this circuit is the ratio of magnetic flux per electric current.  
When the ferrite is far away mostly all of the magnetic flux is caused by the current flowing in the coil.
When the ferrite is is close by most of the magnetic flux is caused by atomic currents in the polarized ferrite.
That ferrite polarization energy can be recovered, when the coil is discharged into the capacitor.  Inverting buck-boost power supplies recover over 95% of that energy every day using stationary cores and synchronous rectification.

Whether the mechanical work performed by the polarized ferrite is "for free" remains to be seen.

It will indeed be interesting.

Quote
We do so little real experiments to increase our understanding on this forum.  Mostly we just replicate other people's devices without understanding how they are supposed to work...


This is true. Personally, I do lots of experiments in the background and in private threads, but since I don't post in youtube videos, therefore I have very little credence or exposure. When I find something really interesting I will post on youtube, otherwise I don't want to waste the bandwidth with my nonsense.

Quote
The CARA investigation is different.  It's goal is to increase knowledge methodically, with the hope that an anomaly is found ...but nobody besides Itsu wants to participate.  Most likely because it is hard, unexciting work now and when they read that we can recover only ~70% of the energy at the moment, they are just not interested, without even noticing that the motion of the core is not even accounted for at this stage, which is the major point of the entire endeavor.

Yes it is a difficult test and the outcome will be significant. I do encourage you and Itsu to continue on. You guys are doing a fine job at testing the hypothesis.

Kind Regards
ION


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #522 on: 2015-03-02, 23:42:54 »
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Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015-02-27, 21:28:45
@Matt
In a word it is "whacked" because I heard all the stories before but just couldn't bring myself to believe them. However when you see it up close and personal there is no mistaking what it is nor what it is doing. It accelerated so damn fast to such an unbelievable velocity then made a sweeping turn upward and then it's just freaking gone into outer space...it was moving that fast. About one to one and a half seconds from relatively low altitude to leaving the Earths atmosphere and out of sight.

As you can imagine when someone me there is no such thing as free energy I have to laugh because they have no idea what their talking about. What I saw makes our best fighter jets look like a donkey cart and makes no noise, no sonic boom, no jet plume or vapor trail.

So the question is who should I believe?, should I believe a person who tells me it is not possible or should I believe what I saw with my own eyes and the other witness to this event standing right next to me. It's no contest and the experts down here aren't actually experts in anything compared to the people who understand the technology I saw, they are on completely different levels.

It makes things easier for me because there is no question it is possible however how they do it remains a mystery for now.

AC


Are you saying that a UFO must have Over Unity or just free energy not paid for. Because I would bet if there was a such a device such as that which you state to have seen ( I do not disbelieve you ) I've seen stuff that doesn't add up as well. But it kinda goes without saying that any energy utilized in such a UF Craft would not be created from nothing it would be simply a new way to utilize available energy. For free, No Over Unity required or possible because we all know it's not possible to create energy. We can only utilize it and transform it ect. we cant make it and neither can ET. Unless ET is GOD the creator.

..

Three things would be vital for such a craft to operate out of atmosphere.

1) A New method of Propulsion or method of inducing movement.

2) A new method of harnessing enough energy to power said propulsion system for great distances.

3) A way of creating and maintaining a force field of some kind around the craft so that atmospheric friction does not apply and so that the occupants can be comfortable at such incredible rates of acceleration and so forth.

There is no requirement for any energy to be created OU not needed.

..
   
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Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #523 on: 2015-03-03, 02:33:57 »
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It's turtles all the way down
 Regarding point number three:

Quote
3) A way of creating and maintaining a force field of some kind around the craft so that atmospheric friction does not apply and so that the occupants can be comfortable at such incredible rates of acceleration and so forth.

I would say the force field needs to not only surround the craft but also penetrate the craft and the occupants such that every atom of their bodies is acted upon uniformly by the field. This is probably the only way "human like" occupants could possibly withstand and survive the tremendous G forces from acceleration and sharp turns reported by eyewitnesses.

Short of that the craft would be strictly drones or occupied by not "human like" yet intelligent creations, possibly AI.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #524 on: 2015-03-03, 09:43:25 »
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Yes spot on. And I think the only real way would be if the craft was capable of generating "gravity" of it's own and excluding gravitational forces from outside or interacting with external gravitational forces as well to produce the movement. A tiny planet that can be controlled,both attracted to other planets or repel itself away from other planets or remain in equilibrium with it's surroundings to hover in atmosphere.

In my opinion not at all out of mans capabilities and I think the main problem is harnessing the energy enough for power or reducing the need for power enough to need only small amounts of energy or matter for conversion.

Three things I do not subscribe to are in order of not possible.

1) Time travel. Time is a one way man made concept. The movements of the Major bodies in/of the Universe are orderly to a large degree. Time is just the passing of events, it has no speed no vector no beginning and no end.  

2) Extra Dimensional travel. ( eg dimensions are for measuring stuff.) I don't even see time as a dimension because it's not a distance.

3) Anti-Gravity, however gravity may have duality. I see radiation as the opposite of Gravitation, so no place for anti gravity unless there can be anti radiation. Just silly in my view.

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Our planet takes stuff on by Gravitation and it gets rid of stuff by Radiation. Simple.

And if we could somehow reduce or stop the loss of energy from the planet by radiations then the energy of the planet should increase. To what end I have not thought on yet.

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I would love to have a "black" budget and a bunch of really well learned and open minded but practical engineers to run some of my "visions" past so a think tank can... well think on them. :)

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