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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils (Read 384852 times)

EMJunkie	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #200 on: 2015-01-31, 09:43:06 »
Group: Guest	@ALL, I was just emailed a document that I think is worth sharing. For most everyone here it will be already known stuff, there are some good diagrams in there though! ------------------------ Figuera Inverter by NMS.pdf (540.63 kB - downloaded 1786 times.) « Last Edit: 2015-02-02, 02:26:42 by EMJunkie »

Matt Watts	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #201 on: 2015-01-31, 10:19:51 »
Group: Guest	Maybe Centraflow can help us with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yT1B7ivgEg « Last Edit: 2015-01-31, 10:52:53 by Matt Watts »

verpies	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #202 on: 2015-01-31, 10:25:31 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3499	Quote from: EMJunkie on 2015-01-31, 08:41:14 I view this "longitudinal currents" as the A Vector Potential that is on the outside of the core. Verpies, if I am incorrect please correct me. No, this is just an parallel current to the ordinary toroidal current (or solenoidal current). If you did a vector analysis of this longitudinal or circumferential current, then you would come up with an A field that is associated with it, too.

TinMan	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #203 on: 2015-01-31, 10:55:16 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: EMJunkie on 2015-01-30, 22:29:13 @Tinman, I am sorry you feel this way. In my time, I have seen many hundreds of Videos, many people come forward with good data, to show what? A Device that runs itself and lights a load... [youtube]HmYfcgvf6Jc[/youtube] The first thing that the Critics say is: "Hoax", then "Measurement Error", then after that if they still need to, they claim its already known principals and its borrowing energy from the Power Lines or Local Radio Station.... I am not going down this path! I have seen Akula so many times get slammed against the brick wall of stupidity! No one listens and so many claim they know better! Now, can you build this device and make it work? Can anyone except the builder? Do you know the underlying principals? Do you have someone helping you build such devices? Oh wait, you do! Why would you think and expect to finish at the starting line when you're not prepared to Start at the Start? I don't understand this! Yes, I agree, many times people have been led down what may be seen as the Garden Path, but because of frustration, the view that one is not getting anywhere, through being hounded to the point of out right insanity, and also simply because of time issues, as I have seen, I have a family and a Business I am trying to look after and run at the same time as trying to post information, create graphics, documents and all the other stuff I have done.... Videos... I believe many good people, with legitimate devices, have shared information and then given up in frustration! So maybe an open mind, if you learn a few things from what I am sharing, is it not worth a few dollars? I am not asking you to spend ridiculous amounts of money! Most all here will already have the materials! For example, Itsu, how much have you spent? $10? The Information I have shared with everyone works! Period! If its not working, then someone has either got it wrong, or their understanding of what the goal is has not been realised by that individual yet. Thus, why I am trying to help! IMPORTANT: I try not to use the Term "Bucking Coils" because technically this is not the only configuration that works! Although, this is what the coils do actually do in all modes of configuration! Now, its my daughters Birthday today, I am going to spend some time with her and the rest of the family. I am sorry to others that have posted and that I have not responded to yet, I will get to them tomorrow. Kind Regards Chris Sykes - hyiq.org To Reach New Horizons! ------------------------------- I always keep an open mind Chris,but sometimes threads just get dragged out for so long,and then the claimant just up and disappears. Happy B/day to your daughter-one day before mine Might put together an experiment myself here,and see how we go--time permitting. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Smudge	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #204 on: 2015-01-31, 11:36:36 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1940	Quote from: Itsu on 2015-01-30, 21:05:15 See the below picture for the ferrite rods i presently have, they are: 2x ferrite rod 20x200mm 8t = 18uH @10Khz 4x ferrite rod 10/8.5x200mm 8t = 9uH @ 10Khz (rod is not round, has 2 flat sides) 6x ferrite rod 8/7x50mm 8t = 4.7uH @10Khz ( " " " " ) 2x Pot cores 47mm diameter I still have the metglass tape pieces from Smudge, 2x 40mm by 8m. Regards Itsu Hi Itsu, could you please check those inductance measurements and/or the number of turns. They don't stack up against theoretical calculations. I get under 3uH for the large rods with 8 turns both by using formula and by a 2D FEMM simulation. The values are not much altered by the mu, it is mainly the geometry of the rod that determines the inductance. Smudge

T-1000	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #205 on: 2015-01-31, 11:42:06 »
Sr. Member Posts: 375	Quote from: EMJunkie on 2015-01-31, 09:15:50 @Matt and T-1000 They could be caps, I personally think that they could also be Resistors, in one video they look like Caps however, as the Time delay in the propagating wave would be delayed too much if it were LC resonant. Kind Regards Chris Sykes - hyiq.org To Reach New Horizons! ------------------------------- Roman mentioned about them in first video. They are Russian made caps... With resistrors you would not get such good assisting effect. Also the whole transformer and frequency is tuned according to the load. The automatic frequency tuning circuit would have great advantage here and for bigger version you can have very cheap heating of your homes. P.S> Roman also said you can destroy ferrites if you overtune it. This is similar effect to my Lithuanian Yoke experiment..

verpies	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #206 on: 2015-01-31, 13:17:46 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3499	Quote from: Smudge on 2015-01-31, 11:36:36 Hi Itsu, could you please check those inductance measurements and/or the number of turns. They don't stack up against theoretical calculations. @Itsu It will help him if you double the number of turns (to 16t) and remeasure the inductances. « Last Edit: 2015-01-31, 16:21:12 by verpies »

Itsu	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #207 on: 2015-01-31, 15:09:25 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	Quote from: verpies on 2015-01-31, 02:54:05 The Owon is still grounded through the mains neutral wire. If you want to have a truly ungrounded scope then you must use a 1:1 mains isolation transformer. The Owon might be, but not its probes outer BNC plugs, they measure 0.2 Ohm compared to the ground lug, but does not show any Ohm reading (MOhm) compared to either power lugs. Regards Itsu

Itsu	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #208 on: 2015-01-31, 15:10:43 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	Quote from: verpies on 2015-01-31, 13:17:46 @Itsu I will help him if you double the number of turns (to 16t) and remeasure the inductances. Ok, redid the L measurement on the 20x200mm rod using 16 turns now, in the middle i measure now 59uH, at either end 30uH (@ 10khz) short video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZer32ZAvyg&feature=youtu.be Regards Itsu

Smudge	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #209 on: 2015-01-31, 15:31:35 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1940	Right, now listen up!! I have just done a FEMM simulation for Itsu's large ferrite rod 200 mm long by 20mm diameter. I have assumed the ferrite to be like 3F4 with a mu of 900 and a velocity of propagation of 3.88x10⁸m/S. I have placed on this core two coils each of 100 turns of 1 mm magnet wire, that is 10 layers of 10 turns per layer. The coils are 10 mm in length and extend out 10 mm from the core surface. The gap between the cores is 60 mm so their mean separation (center to center) is 70 mm. That represents a time delay from one coil to the other of 18nS. My simulation tells me the inductance of each coil is 541uH and the mutual inductance is 183uH. Thus the coils connected in series opposing should give 715uH and FEMM confirms this when I set that up (see image). Now using that mutual inductance figure and the equation for induced negative R in my paper R=-omegaL₁₂sin(phi) where phi is the phase delay I get the following results. frequency omega phase Neg R 1.00E+03 6.28E+03 1.13E-04 2.61E-04 1.00E+04 6.28E+04 1.13E-03 2.61E-02 1.00E+05 6.28E+05 1.13E-02 2.61E+00 1.00E+06 6.28E+06 1.13E-01 2.61E+02 1.00E+07 6.28E+07 1.13E+00 2.09E+04 Considering the coils have a DCR of only 0.176 Ohms this suggests that we should get self oscillation at 100kHz. I can't believe it is that easy. Of course the AC resistance of the coils will be higher and I have not taken account of core losses. Also there could be reflections from the ends of the core coming into play. But the gap is not optimised, I just used 60 mm as a starting point. I think this does illustrate the potential this approach has for getting OU. Smudge ------------------------ Partnered Output Coils bucking coils on ferrite rod.bmp (380.44 kB, 358x362 - viewed 1382 times.)

Propellanttech	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #210 on: 2015-01-31, 16:02:59 »
Group: Guest	How to you give cool points on this forum? <------- the best I could do! James

Smudge	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #211 on: 2015-01-31, 16:35:14 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1940	Quote from: Itsu on 2015-01-31, 15:10:43 Ok, redid the L measurement on the 20x200mm rod using 16 turns now, in the middle i measure now 59uH, at either end 30uH (@ 10khz) short video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZer32ZAvyg&feature=youtu.be Regards Itsu @Itsu. Been looking at ferrite rod antenna calculations and found they agree with your measurements. So my 2D simulations are out by a factor of about 4. Real inductor values will be 4 times mine, and that means my predicted negative R will be 4 times too low. But we are only dealing with ballpark values at the moment, so it doesn't matter yet. Smudge

verpies	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #212 on: 2015-01-31, 16:39:24 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3499	Quote from: Itsu on 2015-01-31, 15:09:25 but does not show any Ohm reading (MOhm) compared to either power lugs. and how much current does your Tek current-probe* show on a connection between the Owon's BNC shield, your signal generator and one of the Owons' power lugs ? Code: [Select] `----------CSR--------- \| \| AC Signal Generator Owon's BNC Shield \| \| -----------------------------------------Owon's power lug` * or your Tek scope across a 10Ω CSR

Jeg	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #213 on: 2015-01-31, 16:49:56 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: EMJunkie on 2015-01-30, 21:53:08 What do you think the Partnered Output (Bucking) Coils DO? Where Could Excess Current be? How is the Voltage related? Kind Regards Chris Sykes - hyiq.org To Reach New Horizons! ------------------------------- Dear Chris I already have corrected my above post cause I announced a false conclusion on the relation between high voltage and number of turns. A new inter turn arcing affected my result and conclusions. But I corrected it in my new setup and I had some time to make some more improvements. Check this video, to see what happens with partnered coils at high frequencies. A raw radiant energy extraction takes place. The philosophy behind your ideas can also be found at Daniel's mac farland cook patent, and also at Carlos Benitez ideas. At my opinion the idea is this. As you correctly has stated we have to keep a continues current flowing inside the coils while the same time to make a high tension at the middle of the coils magnetically speaking... The extra charges we get at the output are coming straight from the core material itself. Core, catches the extra charges from the environment during the off activity period between each cycle. Thanks again Chris! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AtYEz6PrKs&feature=youtu.be « Last Edit: 2015-01-31, 17:18:14 by Jeg »

NerzhDishual	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #214 on: 2015-01-31, 16:58:30 »
Group: Guest	Hi EMJunkie, Thanks for your feedback. Perhaps this kind of circuit could be worth to be tested: It is not 'OU', of course, with a normal coil... But with added non conventional Partnered Output Coils ? For the moment, I have not the time to test this because I'm presently studying another "partnered" idea. The main 'inspiration' is to use conventional circuits, notably those who give resonance, with non conventional components. Not a 'normal' transfo but a modified one. You see what I mean. Not a 'normal' capacitor but a modified one: a Cap-Coil, Coil-Cap, InduCap, etc... BTW, I 'stole' this idea from Vladimir Utkin. Explanations here: If you pursue the conception a bit further you will think about mixing the two non conventional parts : Partnered Output Coils and Cap-Coil.... You will find out that this ends up with things that look like Akula and Kapanadze apparently strange contraptions. But I'm off topic.... All the Best, Jean

PhysicsProf	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #215 on: 2015-01-31, 17:16:49 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3017	Bonjour!! Good to hear from you, Jean. You may be off topic, but would like to hear more of your ideas and builds! Quote If you pursue the conception a bit further you will think about mixing the two non conventional parts : Partnered Output Coils and Cap-Coil.... You will find out that this ends up with things that look like Akula and Kapanadze apparently strange contraptions. But I'm off topic.... Lips Sealed All the Best, Jean Perhaps start a new thread? (Can you un-seal your lips?) Steve

Itsu	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #216 on: 2015-01-31, 17:28:07 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	Quote from: EMJunkie on 2015-01-31, 09:04:50 @Itsu, Can you please DC Pulse your Input with 10V Just via a Fett with good protection Diode and then post Scope shot of Output wave? Kind Regards Chris Sykes - hyiq.org To Reach New Horizons! ------------------------------- Ok using an IRFP260N MOSFET driven by a UCC37321 MOSFET driver driven by my FG. 10V on the Drain of the MOSFET, 12V from a separate PS for the MOSFET driver. Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEXb4yEEiWA&feature=youtu.be At the lowest frequencies (40Hz), there is a spiky signal of about 2Vpp on the load resistor across the partner coils. Regards Itsu

PhysicsProf	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #217 on: 2015-01-31, 18:36:41 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3017	Thanks for providing updates as you proceed along, Itsu. Very helpful, and a log of your endeavor.

EMJunkie	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #218 on: 2015-01-31, 19:16:53 »
Group: Guest	@Verpies Quote from: verpies on 2015-01-31, 10:25:31 No, this is just an parallel current to the ordinary toroidal current (or solenoidal current). If you did a vector analysis of this longitudinal or circumferential current, then you would come up with an A field that is associated with it, too. Ah nice to know thanks. « Last Edit: 2015-02-02, 02:27:22 by EMJunkie »

EMJunkie	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #219 on: 2015-01-31, 19:28:33 »
Group: Guest	@Matt Quote from: Matt Watts on 2015-01-31, 10:19:51 Maybe Centraflow can help us with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yT1B7ivgEg There is a much simpler way to see something amazing. Use very low Voltage input to start. Use the Right Hand Rule to make sure L2 and L3 have Magnetic Fields Oppose! ------------------------ Partnered Output Coils DC Pulsing 25% DC.png (13.24 kB, 588x768 - viewed 1654 times.) « Last Edit: 2015-02-02, 02:27:37 by EMJunkie »

EMJunkie	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #220 on: 2015-01-31, 19:33:20 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: TinMan on 2015-01-31, 10:55:16 I always keep an open mind Chris,but sometimes threads just get dragged out for so long,and then the claimant just up and disappears. Happy B/day to your daughter-one day before mine Might put together an experiment myself here,and see how we go--time permitting. Excellent! Nice to see There is a lot to this, its exciting, one see's with simple changes lots of things happening. This was a surprise for me when I did this: See Basic Schematic « Last Edit: 2015-02-02, 02:27:53 by EMJunkie »

EMJunkie	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #221 on: 2015-01-31, 19:36:06 »
Group: Guest	Hey T-1000 Quote from: T-1000 on 2015-01-31, 11:42:06 Roman mentioned about them in first video. They are Russian made caps... With resistrors you would not get such good assisting effect. Also the whole transformer and frequency is tuned according to the load. The automatic frequency tuning circuit would have great advantage here and for bigger version you can have very cheap heating of your homes. P.S> Roman also said you can destroy ferrites if you overtune it. This is similar effect to my Lithuanian Yoke experiment.. Ah cool, Learn Russes is on my to do list. I think there is a commonality between many devices, maybe the Coil configuration just could be it! « Last Edit: 2015-02-02, 02:28:07 by EMJunkie »

EMJunkie	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #222 on: 2015-01-31, 19:43:24 »
Group: Guest	@Sumdge, Quote from: Smudge on 2015-01-31, 15:31:35 Right, now listen up!! I have just done a FEMM simulation for Itsu's large ferrite rod 200 mm long by 20mm diameter. I have assumed the ferrite to be like 3F4 with a mu of 900 and a velocity of propagation of 3.88x10⁸m/S. I have placed on this core two coils each of 100 turns of 1 mm magnet wire, that is 10 layers of 10 turns per layer. The coils are 10 mm in length and extend out 10 mm from the core surface. The gap between the cores is 60 mm so their mean separation (center to center) is 70 mm. That represents a time delay from one coil to the other of 18nS. My simulation tells me the inductance of each coil is 541uH and the mutual inductance is 183uH. Thus the coils connected in series opposing should give 715uH and FEMM confirms this when I set that up (see image). Now using that mutual inductance figure and the equation for induced negative R in my paper R=-omegaL₁₂sin(phi) where phi is the phase delay I get the following results. frequency omega phase Neg R 1.00E+03 6.28E+03 1.13E-04 2.61E-04 1.00E+04 6.28E+04 1.13E-03 2.61E-02 1.00E+05 6.28E+05 1.13E-02 2.61E+00 1.00E+06 6.28E+06 1.13E-01 2.61E+02 1.00E+07 6.28E+07 1.13E+00 2.09E+04 Considering the coils have a DCR of only 0.176 Ohms this suggests that we should get self oscillation at 100kHz. I can't believe it is that easy. Of course the AC resistance of the coils will be higher and I have not taken account of core losses. Also there could be reflections from the ends of the core coming into play. But the gap is not optimised, I just used 60 mm as a starting point. I think this does illustrate the potential this approach has for getting OU. Smudge Beautiful Work Smudge! The Frequencies I am finding the best are a Much Lower Frequency range. I wonder if there may be some sort of Harmonic to this? « Last Edit: 2015-02-02, 02:28:21 by EMJunkie »

EMJunkie	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #223 on: 2015-01-31, 19:51:25 »
Group: Guest	@Jeg Quote from: Jeg on 2015-01-31, 16:49:56 Dear Chris I already have corrected my above post cause I announced a false conclusion on the relation between high voltage and number of turns. A new inter turn arcing affected my result and conclusions. But I corrected it in my new setup and I had some time to make some more improvements. Check this video, to see what happens with partnered coils at high frequencies. A raw radiant energy extraction takes place. The philosophy behind your ideas can also be found at Daniel's mac farland cook patent, and also at Carlos Benitez ideas. At my opinion the idea is this. As you correctly has stated we have to keep a continues current flowing inside the coils while the same time to make a high tension at the middle of the coils magnetically speaking... The extra charges we get at the output are coming straight from the core material itself. Core, catches the extra charges from the environment during the off activity period between each cycle. Thanks again Chris! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AtYEz6PrKs&feature=youtu.be Nice Work! Do you have a Current Probe? Try to measure your Current also! Maybe use a 0.1 Ohm Resistor Shunt to measure the Current. Nice Work! Be Careful with those spikes! « Last Edit: 2015-02-02, 02:28:35 by EMJunkie »

EMJunkie	Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #224 on: 2015-01-31, 20:16:39 »
Group: Guest	Hi NerzhDishual, Quote from: NerzhDishual on 2015-01-31, 16:58:30 Hi EMJunkie, Thanks for your feedback. Perhaps this kind of circuit could be worth to be tested: It is not 'OU', of course, with a normal coil... But with added non conventional Partnered Output Coils ? For the moment, I have not the time to test this because I'm presently studying another "partnered" idea. The main 'inspiration' is to use conventional circuits, notably those who give resonance, with non conventional components. Not a 'normal' transfo but a modified one. You see what I mean. Not a 'normal' capacitor but a modified one: a Cap-Coil, Coil-Cap, InduCap, etc... BTW, I 'stole' this idea from Vladimir Utkin. Explanations here: If you pursue the conception a bit further you will think about mixing the two non conventional parts : Partnered Output Coils and Cap-Coil.... You will find out that this ends up with things that look like Akula and Kapanadze apparently strange contraptions. But I'm off topic.... All the Best, Jean All nice work again! But I really would recommend that you start with the most simplest methods first. Partnered Output Coils work quite different and take a bit of understanding. Use a small Power Amp driven by a Function generator for your first experiments. Its much easier this way. « Last Edit: 2015-02-02, 02:28:52 by EMJunkie »

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