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OverUnity Research > Electrical / Electronic Devices > Solid-State Generators > Partnered Output Coils
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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils  (Read 384922 times)
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img  Wistiti
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #100 on: 2015-01-29, 02:38:40 »
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To be much clear; my best connection output is the same as Groundloop. (maby it is because Chris is at the opposite part of the eart. ;D )

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2760.0;attach=16271;image
   
img  EMJunkie
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #101 on: 2015-01-29, 03:51:42 »
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Hey Wistiti! Welcome  ;)

Quote from: Wistiti on 2015-01-29, 02:29:43
Hi all! First,I am realy glad to be here with you. It seem to be a place where people can share with respect.
@Hanon dont worry your not the only one! :) Until now i am testing with some multimeter and a ac/cd clamp meter for the amp... For shure it will not be full proof equipement (more hazardous at high frequency) but it can give a prety good idea if a modification improve the result! O0

I am testing the output of the partnered coil via a bridge rectifier and a 12v 1w incandescent bulb....  Chris does it is ok to rectify the output before the resistive load???

What i find until now is max volt and amp output on load is obtain when:

1-the right frequency is apply to the primary (or trigger coil) First small ferrite yoke from tv, primary: 100t/21awg  each partnered coil: 400t/30awg-------- is best output frequency: 223hz. The second bigger ferrite yoke, primary: 200t/21awg  each partnered coil: 600t/21awg----is best output frequency: 63hz.

2-paper and tape gap the 2 part of the yoke (around 3mm both end) it give to me near 15% more output.

3- the partnered coil connection. I dont know exactly why but for me the big difference is there... The first way Chris show (partnered connect in the middle and the output at the begining and end) did not give me a remarquable output. But the last one he show (yes i have try it before) give me a better output and some strange thing.

Until now i cant not say i have more out than in but i can say that at the right frequency the amps draw on the primary when the load is connected. :)
I have to find a way to lower my primary consuption...

ps: sorry for the mistake in my phrasing...  ...as you can see English is not my mother tong! ;)

Ciao!

Yes, many are at such varying levels and its hard for all coming along to pick a good starting point!

I have always used Resistive load for testing but to be honest I cant see an immediate problem with ratification! Let us know what you find!

Experiment with Both configurations I have shown, try not to just use one and stick with it.

Good to see you here with us Wistiti!
« Last Edit: 2015-02-02, 02:14:47 by EMJunkie »
   
img  EMJunkie
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #102 on: 2015-01-29, 04:10:12 »
Group: Guest
@ALL,

So to clarify, I hope to make a little clearer, I am sorry if it wasn't already, try both configurations. My previous Drawings did have slight errors in them, please check the new ones:

For those that are not familiar with the Right Hand Rule please watch this video: I like it!  :)

[youtube]eK1Ar5WPJj8[/youtube]

or

[youtube]dq-VxZrBLJQ[/youtube]

Just so you know, I have applied the Right Hand Rule slightly different, some will already know this, I use it as follows: Thumb in the Direction of the Magnetic Field, Fingers in the direction of the Charge in the Coil! It works the same way! Vectors are the same. Please see the attached picture for clarification!
« Last Edit: 2015-02-02, 02:15:08 by EMJunkie »
   
img  Aking.21
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #103 on: 2015-01-29, 06:27:16 »

Sr. Member
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Posts: 420


Buy me some coffee
I did the same experiment with gyros 25 years ago and can confirm the demo is genuine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcks2fcpHUk


---------------------------
Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a  capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd  plate?
   
img  Matt Watts
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #104 on: 2015-01-29, 07:38:07 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: Aking.21 on 2015-01-29, 06:27:16
I did the same experiment with gyros 25 years ago and can confirm the demo is genuine:

Do you mean the demo of Bill Alek's Split Flux Transformer or just his concept of Cooper Paired electrons?
   
img  EMJunkie
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #105 on: 2015-01-29, 08:06:38 »
Group: Guest
Hey AKing.21

Quote from: Aking.21 on 2015-01-29, 06:27:16
I did the same experiment with gyros 25 years ago and can confirm the demo is genuine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcks2fcpHUk

Welcome!

Yes, this is right, its an easy experiment to replicate.
« Last Edit: 2015-02-02, 02:15:25 by EMJunkie »
   
img  cheappower2012
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #106 on: 2015-01-29, 08:15:09 »
Group: Guest
Chris
Its been a while since I did research on Floyd Sweet,to me it looks like a very low tech
device.When a device is very low tech,theres reluctance on the part of the inventor
to release
exact details to replicate it,due to fear of someone stealing
it,I did find an account of two people acting like they wanted to help Floyd Sweet,then
stole hes note book and contacted bud-dean-eee to see if he could replicate it.According to the
article he told them to go way but kept the notebook.Greed aways factors in this
You can not make any money if the device is easy to make and low tech,nor can you patent it.
People like SM ,ran a con operation to make money,some people believe he didn't con anyone(LOL) or like Kapanadze charge for a demo.
Theres is a claim that the VTA loses weight when energy is draw,the more the load the greater the loss
whats your thoughts on this.There is also a claim of cold coming from the wires conducting
the current what are your thoughts on this.Theres also talk of the device being started by a nine volt battery.
Was there any more videos made of the VTA.In the video on input measurements,how accurate are they,I ask this because you said the magnet conditioning
concept started when Floyd met Bearden,how many  other things did he fake,was this Floyd's idea or Beardens.
I don't view Floyd Sweet, in the sort of conman category as SM and Tariel Kapanadze.
How did you arrive at your present bucking coil configuration,is it possible its not quite correct
but essentially correct in some aspects.How sure are you that your configuration is close to the one Floyd Sweet used.
I watched your video of how you concluded that the VTA must have had a core,very well thought out.
A few people conclude that presenting something is proof of concept,and get mad if it didn't work,
they don't understand most things presented are theoretical concepts or guesses, as either the inventor is dead or
the inventor is alive but will never give up the secret to make hes devices,you have to experiment to get around the inventor.
   
img  Hanon
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #107 on: 2015-01-29, 09:28:32 »
Group: Guest
Hi Chris,

In previous posts and other forums you said that loose coupling is mandatory. Later I understood as if there were two types of phenomena for getting this loose coupling: 1- you could gap the coils (distance between the coils) or,  2- you could gap the cores: create an air-gap or use plastic spacer between both cores (separation of both cores). I want to ask you what kind of these two possibilities have to be used , and also get some reference values of the coil gapping or core gapping (in millimeters)

I will try to buy a cheap audio amplifier by internet in order to be able to test

Another question: I have some magnetic steel from old MOTs. Is it valid to do these tests or should I get ferrite cores?

IMHO it would be better for all of us if you could specify a basic device to start doing tests. By using all of us the same design we could share more easily our results and change parameters. With many different designs maybe what somebody gets is not possible to get those same results for other people´s design. A kind of “standard” is always good. Just my opinion.

Thanks
   
img  Chet K
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #108 on: 2015-01-29, 09:37:04 »
Group: Ambassador
Hero Member
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Posts: 4045
while Tinsel is a member here,
he has some nice  tips as well as some thoughts [and a build in progress]
here
http://overunity.com/15395/partnered-output-coils-free-energy/msg435613/#new

thx for looking
Chet
   
img  Jeg
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #109 on: 2015-01-29, 09:42:35 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: Wistiti on 2015-01-29, 02:38:40
To be much clear; my best connection output is the same as Groundloop. (maby it is because Chris is at the opposite part of the eart. ;D )

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2760.0;attach=16271;image

Hi@all
I'd like to ask wistiti or anyone else if by connecting the load this way you experience current drawing at the input side? I mean that when i connect my load like this, my current draw is getting higher. Only when i connect my load straight on the two ends of my bucking coils there is no input current affection!

Hanon, already Chris said that spacing between coils and gaping the core are two different matters. The distance between the coils has to do only with their relative capacitive coupling and for varying K factor in Verpies equation. About your core material it is only depend on your working frequencies. Laminations from mains transformers like mots are not good for frequencies over some hundreds of Hz.  
   
img  Wistiti
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #110 on: 2015-01-29, 12:15:23 »
Group: Guest
Hi Jeg!
yes with now load connect to the output it is drawing more amp than when the connection is at both end with no load...
But it is the way it give me the more out vs in until now. Also to see the amps draw reduce when the load is connect only appear a near the right frequency. im not quite understand why?
Am still Learning and experimenting!
ciao!
   
img  Jeg
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #111 on: 2015-01-29, 13:15:20 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: Wistiti on 2015-01-29, 12:15:23
Hi Jeg!
yes with now load connect to the output it is drawing more amp than when the connection is at both end with no load...
But it is the way it give me the more out vs in until now. Also to see the amps draw reduce when the load is connect only appear a near the right frequency. im not quite understand why?
Am still Learning and experimenting!
ciao!

Thanks for the reply wistiti
You speak about right frequency and amperage decreasing. This happens also when you connect your load as you stated above?? Or only when you take your output straight out of your bucking coils?
   
img  Itsu
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #112 on: 2015-01-29, 13:36:30 »

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Quote from: EMJunkie on 2015-01-28, 23:12:22
Hey Itsu,

I am sorry, I missed something! You said: "No vibration or humming anymore of the C-core halfs" - This is right, you should get exactly the "vibration or humming anymore of the C-core halfs" as you said!

I went back, watched your second video again and I did hear the Vibration, this is good! Sorry, I turned the Sound up more  :-[

In my first device that I stumbled onto these effects, see my output voltage across the coils:


My output Voltage was 10.5V

This may sound silly and trivial, but would you mind trying something for me, can you turn 20-30 turns of small AWG wire on the end coil, furthest away from the Input, and add a 1K resistor. Adjust the resistor down and see if this helps? maybe lowest say 20 Ohms.

I wonder if we are seeing an issue in the Core Material. I have seen this before and doing the above did help me.

Kind Regards

   Chris Sykes - hyiq.org
   To Reach New Horizons!
-------------------------------


 :o   sorry Chris, that first sentence, i have a hard time trying to understand what your are saying there.

I said that in this parallel setup i do not hear or feel any vibrations/sounds like with the normal serial setup,  to me that is not good,  right?


Also the last part  / request please explain what you want me to do.
Add an additional 20/30 turns to the farmost partner coil (put it in series)? Or wind another coil of 20/30 turns around that farmost coil?
Where to put that resistor?

Regards Itsu 
   
img  Smudge
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #113 on: 2015-01-29, 15:13:31 »

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Posts: 1940
I have produced some charts for two single turn loops that are coupled by lying on a common axis showing the mutual inductance varying with separation distance, and their combined series inductance in bucking mode.  Coils on ferrite rods should show similar variations with separation distance.  I also show the induced negative resistance when there is a magnetic propagation delay across the separation gap.  This indicates an optimum separation (for maximum negative resistance) of about half the diameter of the coils.  That optimum position stays the same regardless of the frequency or the delay, only the magnitude is determined by those.  Remember this is presented as a guide only, the actual position has to be found by experiment.

Smudge
   
img  Itsu
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #114 on: 2015-01-29, 15:14:43 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2015-01-28, 13:57:28
i = V/(R1 + R2 + 2π*f*LT)

where LT is the total combined inductance:
LT = L1 + L2 – 2*k*(L1*L2)0.5

The closer the coils are, the higher is their coefficient of coupling (k).  When coils are intertwined with each other in the same space then the their coefficient of coupling (k) is the highest (almost 1).
The higher the k, the lower their combined inductance (LT), because coils are in opposition and their individual mutual inductances subtract.


So if that (π) is pi, and for k i take 0.5 and using 0.87H/coil @ 4.2 Ohm/coil (for R1 and R2),
i come to almost 0.5A pp at the measured 220mV pp across the 10 Ohm @ 80Hz

As i measured 0.24mA pp, i guess my k is "of"  somewhat.

Should the load resistor (10 ohm) not being added into the mix?  


Thanks,  regards Itsu
   
img  Smudge
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #115 on: 2015-01-29, 15:34:40 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2015-01-28, 13:57:28
i = V/(R1 + R2 + 2π*f*LT)

where LT is the total combined inductance:
LT = L1 + L2 – 2*k*(L1*L2)0.5

The closer the coils are, the higher is their coefficient of coupling (k).  When coils are intertwined with each other in the same space then the their coefficient of coupling (k) is the highest (almost 1).
The higher the k, the lower their combined inductance (LT), because coils are in opposition and their individual mutual inductances subtract.

You can't just add resistance R to an inductive reactance omega*L without including the imaginary operator j (some people use i) with the inductor to take account of the 90 degree phase between voltage and current there.  You can solve the 90 degree reactance triangle and use sqrt(R^2+(omega*L)^2).  So your first equation should be
 
i = V/sqrt{(R1 + R2)2 + (2π*f*LT)2}

And just to clarify things your k*(L1*L2)0.5 is the mutual inductance M which is the same as my L12 (and L12=L21 in my terminology).


Smudge
« Last Edit: 2015-01-29, 16:04:24 by Smudge »
   
img  Smudge
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #116 on: 2015-01-29, 15:56:31 »

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Quote from: verpies on 2015-01-28, 22:05:10
Yes, I saw a photo of this experiment. Wasn't this like 20 years ago?
Yes, that is very indicative of the propagation delay.
So what propagation speed did you get in ferrite cores?  I assume it was c in air ...which means GHz frequencies for centimeter distances :(
Yes for air cores we are talking light velocity.  And that velocity will also apply to the electrical connection between the two coils so my simplistic calculations don't apply and there is no OU there.  So if anyone here is thinking of doing a GHz experiment with air cores forget it.

As for velocity within HF ferrites I have some evidence that it follows the well known equation v=c/sqrt(K*muR) where K is the dielectric constant and muR is the relative permeability.  So with K say around 10 and muR say 104 then we get v=106 m/S.  For other materials especially metal cores where domain wall movement comes into play the velocity is much lower, but I can't quote a value.

Smudge
   
img  Jeg
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #117 on: 2015-01-29, 15:57:51 »
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Quote from: Smudge on 2015-01-29, 15:34:40
You can't just add resistance R to an inductive reactance omega*L without including the imaginary operator j (some people use i) with the inductor to take account of the 90 degree phase between voltage and current there.  You can solve the 90 degree reactance triangle and use sqrt(R^2+(omega*L)^2).  So your first equation should be
 
i = V/sqrt{(R1 + R2)2 + (2π*f*LT)2}

Smudge


That is true except if we are in resonance. Smudge, do you think that a theoritic prediction of the behavior is possible when the two bucking coils have same inductance but different wire gauge and turns?

   
img  Smudge
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #118 on: 2015-01-29, 16:34:39 »

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Quote from: Jeg on 2015-01-29, 15:57:51
That is true except if we are in resonance. Smudge, do you think that a theoritic prediction of the behavior is possible when the two bucking coils have same inductance but different wire gauge and turns?
Theoretical predictions are possible for any configuration. :).  If we had access to a 3D finite element program (I don't, I use FEMM which is 2D) we could solve the flux flowing through the two coils whatever their size, and derive accurate values for their inductances and their coupling.  What we won't have is the magnetic propagation velocity through the core, so that will need experimentation.  If we had that we could then do accurate predictions.  But while you are experimenting you can also measure inductance values then feed them into the predictive equations, so I see that as the likely route.

My paper "Bucking Coils produce energy gain" is just a start and I will follow this up with the results of 2D simulations for coils wound on cores.  Actually the 2D simulation would only apply to coils wound, not on ferrite rods but on ferrite slabs that are very wide (infinitely so in the simulation).  But it should help in getting the best set-up.  It should be noted that I deal just with a pair of bucking coils as though the current through those coils comes from a generator connected to them.  Chris's system uses that pair as the secondary of a transformer, so the current comes from the primary creating an induced voltage across the load resistor.  The cause of the OU is the same in both cases, so my optimisation should apply to Chris's transformers.

Smudge
   
img  Jeg
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #119 on: 2015-01-29, 17:48:33 »
Group: Guest
Thanks smudge, I'll find time soon to read your file. :)
   
img  verpies
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #120 on: 2015-01-29, 20:01:14 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2015-01-29, 15:14:43
As i measured 0.24mA pp, i guess my k is "of"  somewhat.
I don't think you have verified your V with a scope.  The signal generator's output voltage is not what is displayed, if the load impedance is below kΩs

Quote from: Itsu on 2015-01-29, 15:14:43
Should the load resistor (10 ohm) not being added into the mix?
Yes, if it is connected in series with the SG.
Also, Smudge's formula is more precise than mine,  so use his reactance triangle.

@Smudge
Thanks for noticing it.
   
img  Itsu
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #121 on: 2015-01-29, 20:54:38 »

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Huh?    In the below screenshot you can see the voltage across the 10 Ohm resistor (228mV) yellow trace
and the current through this 10 Ohm resistor (22.8mA) green trace using my current probe.

The signal generator was feeding the input coil which was not measured.

The 10 Ohm load resistor is not in series with the SG, instead it is parallel and/or in series with the partner coils
for which i wanted to know how much current we suppose to have there.

 

Regards Itsu
   
img  EMJunkie
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #122 on: 2015-01-29, 21:28:35 »
Group: Guest
@Cheappower2012,

Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2015-01-29, 08:15:09

Its been a while since I did research on Floyd Sweet,to me it looks like a very low tech device. When a device is very low tech,theres reluctance on the part of the inventor to release exact details to replicate it,due to fear of someone stealing it


Through History, All Free Energy Devices are Low Tech! All Simple, Coils and Capacitors! Some are a little more, but the best are very simple! None have needed amazing Spells cast over them to make them work. Keep it simple, try to always break down to the most basic form!

Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2015-01-29, 08:15:09

I did find an account of two people acting like they wanted to help Floyd Sweet, then stole hes note book and contacted bud-dean-eee to see if he could replicate it. According to the article he told them to go way but kept the notebook. Greed aways factors in this


Yes I have covered this on my site. It was not Floyd's Notebook but Notes he was asked to supply by his sponsor at the time. ASEOP inst.

Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2015-01-29, 08:15:09

You can not make any money if the device is easy to make and low tech,nor can you patent it.


Why would so many be so greedy? Why not help the Human Race Evolve, then we will not need Money!

Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2015-01-29, 08:15:09

People like SM ,ran a con operation to make money,some people believe he didn't con anyone(LOL) or like Kapanadze charge for a demo.


Point of View! Mark said: "Its the Knowledge of the Coils and how they go together" I have it in one of my videos. See:

EDIT: Apologies, wrong Video: @Minute: 1:48
[youtube]6kPOw0d0j4E[/youtube]

Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2015-01-29, 08:15:09

Theres is a claim that the VTA loses weight when energy is draw,the more the load the greater the loss whats your thoughts on this.There is also a claim of cold coming from the wires conducting the current what are your thoughts on this.


I don't want to go down any of these paths! Electrical Energy is from the same source ultimately, as an "Electric Generator" Separates Charge, so does all other Energy Machines.

Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2015-01-29, 08:15:09

Theres also talk of the device being started by a nine volt battery.


Yes, we have a Picture of this, its true.

Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2015-01-29, 08:15:09

Was there any more videos made of the VTA. In the video on input measurements,how accurate are they,I ask this because you said the magnet conditioning concept started when Floyd met Bearden,how many other things did he fake,was this Floyd's idea or Beardens.


A few, I have one on my Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/SweetSQM/videos

Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2015-01-29, 08:15:09

I don't view Floyd Sweet, in the sort of conman category as SM and Tariel Kapanadze.


If you look closely, the Kapanadze Coils are very similar, not the same! There are so many variations that work, its just that they work a slightly different way. At least from what I can see.

Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2015-01-29, 08:15:09

How did you arrive at your present bucking coil configuration,is it possible its not quite correct but essentially correct in some aspects. How sure are you that your configuration is close to the one Floyd Sweet used.

I watched your video of how you concluded that the VTA must have had a core,very well thought out.


Many thousands of hours of Work/Research and trial and error!

Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2015-01-29, 08:15:09

A few people conclude that presenting something is proof of concept,and get mad if it didn't work, they don't understand most things presented are theoretical concepts or guesses, as either the inventor is dead or the inventor is alive but will never give up the secret to make hes devices,you have to experiment to get around the inventor.


I have seen many devices come through, with Video, measurements and the whole nine yards! Then the Sceptics turn around and say "Measurement Error" or "Hoax" it really is pointless trying to convince some, they can not see for the trees. Where Does Energy Come From? How Does Energy Present Itself On the "Electric Generators" Terminals?

Ask the most fundamental Questions first.
« Last Edit: 2015-02-02, 02:16:22 by EMJunkie »
   
img  Itsu
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #123 on: 2015-01-29, 21:32:36 »

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Posts: 4159

Ok,  i must be getting old as this is the 3rd post today where i must confess that i am confused.

EMjunkie, please help me out here, in a normal partner coil (bucking coil) configuration, with perfect coils,
the voltage across a load resistor will normally be zero (0),   right?

So the reason that my voltage over my 10 Ohm load resistor is low (220mV) is due to imperfect coils and is perfectly normal, right?

And you want me (us) to tune this partner coil (bucking coil) configuration in such a way that instead of the normal minimum voltage
there is maximum voltage, even so that it possible is more then what is being inputted,  right?

This tuning is done by varying the distance between the partner coils and/or the distance of the core gap and varying the working frequency
so that the magnetic fields oppose and the E fields add up,  right?

Thanks a lot,   Regards Itsu
   
img  EMJunkie
Re: Partnered Output Coils « Reply #124 on: 2015-01-29, 21:40:23 »
Group: Guest
Hi Hanon,

Quote from: Hanon on 2015-01-29, 09:28:32

In previous posts and other forums you said that loose coupling is mandatory. Later I understood as if there were two types of phenomena for getting this loose coupling: 1- you could gap the coils (distance between the coils) or,  2- you could gap the cores: create an air-gap or use plastic spacer between both cores (separation of both cores). I want to ask you what kind of these two possibilities have to be used , and also get some reference values of the coil gapping or core gapping (in millimeters)


Tight Coupling:
A Transformer typically is Tightly Coupled. Sometimes they can have a Loosely Coupled Secondary Path.

This just means you have to give the Magnetic Fields Room, Time to Build, Allow each Magnetic Field to work on its Partner!

I have explained this about 40 times: I am sorry, getting a bit tied of repeating myself  ???

Quote from: Hanon on 2015-01-29, 09:28:32

I will try to buy a cheap audio amplifier by internet in order to be able to test

Another question: I have some magnetic steel from old MOTs. Is it valid to do these tests or should I get ferrite cores?

IMHO it would be better for all of us if you could specify a basic device to start doing tests. By using all of us the same design we could share more easily our results and change parameters. With many different designs maybe what somebody gets is not possible to get those same results for other people´s design. A kind of “standard” is always good. Just my opinion.

Thanks


I have, and some have, Itsu and Groundloop have both started where I suggested  O0
« Last Edit: 2015-02-02, 02:16:46 by EMJunkie »
   
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