Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions

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Author Topic: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions (Read 231575 times)

Grumpy	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #100 on: 2010-06-10, 19:05:59 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: Peterae on 2010-06-10, 16:46:01 The Effect is greater if i short the 2 bifilar's together but it increases the FET's going short try using a coax delay line to turn the pulses off Short the bifilars together where? (Might want to think about something other than FET's.)

Peterae	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #101 on: 2010-06-10, 20:46:45 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2010-06-10, 18:15:28 Sorry. Can't see pics on this phone. Is the output mostly one side of zero? Is your estimated watts out considering the off times? Since the cap kills it I suspect 'no' is the answer to both. Welcome to perpendicular induction 8:) or 'squeezing the hose'. The output seems to swing both positive and negative in the same pulse. For watts measurement i am using a 20 Ohm Non inductive resistor across the output coil, i am still getting large pulses and therefore when the kick occurs that is what i estimate the wattage of the kick, i need to look at it a bit closer yet, it's probably a bit under what i said as i have not done an exact measurement.

Peterae	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #102 on: 2010-06-10, 21:06:20 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-06-10, 19:05:59 try using a coax delay line to turn the pulses off Short the bifilars together where? (Might want to think about something other than FET's.) One end of the bifilars are joined together and connect to the coil supply Each coil has a fast diode across it, each fet then drives each other end of the coil, if i short them together so the fets, diodes and bifilar are in parallel a get bigger kicks but my fets die faster. I actually had a fet start working again for 3 or 4 seconds earlier after it went short, when i went back after power down i measured each fet and they read ok, so i powered up again and it work ok but then went off. Grumpy i would love to have another type of output stage what can i try?

Peterae	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #103 on: 2010-06-10, 21:18:36 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-06-10, 18:07:38 While interesting, the explosive sounds are not a requirement and may actually be a loss of energy from the system. You need a sharp electric impulse, wether you create by an interaction of fields or apply it directly. This creates a force that can cause the medium to move. You then apply this force the medium to rotate it in a circle to create a sort of current. Build a pulser that works reliably to produce the highest pulse that you can, crackles or not. I believe the explosion sounds are created by me starting the process of kick generation, but the random pulse collisions terminate the process, it is this fast termination of the kick formation that creates the crackle, if i hang around too long while a kick forms my fets blow, but the longer i do hang around the more energy released. The use of white noise has increased my chances of stumbling on the conditions to create the kick, but i still don't know the true and correct way to create them and because of this i cannot de tune my system to gain less power, i have to control by termination. I have seen the kicks before by mixing fundamental, 2nd harmonic and 3rd harmonic in a ferrite core but it was weak crackling inside the core.

BEP	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #104 on: 2010-06-10, 21:51:34 »
Group: Guest	A suggestion: Use a coax delay line for the delay. I would estimate 14 inches for every ns delay required. There are ways to shorten that. Then use the two fets together to fire both wires of the coil. Just series the delay line between those two fets and the coil wire needing the delay. Might want to ask Grumpy about coaxial delays used in pulse formers and saturated core experiments.

Peterae	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #105 on: 2010-06-10, 22:02:21 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	A couple of inverters will give me the correct delay propagation period. The problem i need to get over is the dying fets. To be honest G said i could have a worker by the weekend : And it's been very interesting seeing how much available energy is in this kick, but i still don't know how to produce it correctly, only when i understand this will i get more than random occurrences of it. Random occurrences are ok if they are huge in size, but i need quantity otherwise the components driving it are being over rated, only when i can produce it at will can i continually fire that cannon, at the moment i am only missfiring. EDIT: I have not yet tried a bias voltage to the core wire, i have run out of power units, so need to try an revive an old gel cell tomorrow. « Last Edit: 2010-06-10, 22:25:56 by Peterae »

BEP	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #106 on: 2010-06-10, 22:32:51 »
Group: Guest	You may find that random is the best that can be done. The solution then would be to make them continue in a circle with the pauses being filled by other kicks. Can't wait to be home so I can see your scope shots. I've never heard one being described as both sides of zero at the same time. I suppose it might look that way on a digital scope. Not sure. I stick with analog for that and other reasons.

Peterae	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #107 on: 2010-06-10, 22:41:27 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	I think i am beginning to appreciate the problem with harnessing the power from the kick. I tried a fast diode to rectify it and it didn't even see it, no wonder SM had to rotate it first to produce dc

BEP	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #108 on: 2010-06-10, 22:46:39 »
Group: Guest	I'm not sure you can rectify current from an 'A' field. I am pretty sure the only thing you can do toward conventional current is to bias the rotation and/or direction.

Grumpy	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #109 on: 2010-06-10, 23:07:13 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: Peterae on 2010-06-10, 21:06:20 One end of the bifilars are joined together and connect to the coil supply Each coil has a fast diode across it, each fet then drives each other end of the coil, if i short them together so the fets, diodes and bifilar are in parallel a get bigger kicks but my fets die faster. I actually had a fet start working again for 3 or 4 seconds earlier after it went short, when i went back after power down i measured each fet and they read ok, so i powered up again and it work ok but then went off. Grumpy i would love to have another type of output stage what can i try? try avlaanche transistors - if you were not so far away I would send everything to you you need a stack of transistors, I use the 2N5551 and can send you some of those then you have to find the point where the transistor goes into full avlanche and makes sure it is a low resitance avalanche (the noisy lossy avlanche isn't good) - I do this with an adjustable supply and a small neon bulb and a scope - bulb light when it avalanches, check scope to see if it is clean or noisy - circuit is delay line running wide open and not triggered Same with diodes but diodes are not cummulative and can't be stacked, but they have high avalanche treshold so using one can be very helpful to reduce the numbers of transistors in the stack. The delay line approach forces the transitor off when it reflects and then you retrigger it again. radial force implies all directions but to get a repeatable firing pattern you need repeatable switching so fix that first get the schematics from my avalanche thread The energy is NOT in the wire - it is in space (can you say displacement current?) diodes and other SS devices work for conduction current

Grumpy	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #110 on: 2010-06-10, 23:21:50 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	try coax as a feed line from the FET and ground the shield - WW may have suggested this

Grumpy	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #111 on: 2010-06-10, 23:52:31 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	http://cmosedu.com/jbaker/papers/RSI621991.pdf I use the series stack in this paper with 2N5551's and a 100pf cap across each transistor except the triggered one. keep the current low. (Maplin has them in UK for .22 each) http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=32952&C=AffilWin87832&T=!!!gid!!!_14453907

Peterae	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #112 on: 2010-06-11, 13:13:55 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	Thanks G i will get some and have a play, they are easy to buy over here i can get 150 from China cheaply as well Also my compasses arrived today, and show no movement whats so ever. Not sure what to make of this, i just swapped over my high bandwidth whitenoise generators(20Mhz Pic) for low bandwidth(4 Mhz Pic) The resulting video was recorded with a 20 Ohm load across the scope probe, the scope is on 20Volts/div, instead of spikes i am getting spikes followed by bursts. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWmrPD1TtGI[/youtube]

Grumpy	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #113 on: 2010-06-11, 14:12:36 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: Peterae on 2010-06-11, 13:13:55 Thanks G i will get some and have a play, they are easy to buy over here i can get 150 from China cheaply as well Also my compasses arrived today, and show no movement whats so ever. Not sure what to make of this, i just swapped over my high bandwidth whitenoise generators(20Mhz Pic) for low bandwidth(4 Mhz Pic) The resulting video was recorded with a 20 Ohm load across the scope probe, the scope is on 20Volts/div, instead of spikes i am getting spikes followed by bursts. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWmrPD1TtGI[/youtube] it isn't rotating - you just have bursts of energy in all directions which should still show an indication on a capacitor or battery if they are positive only or biased above zero line (it can't reverse) - look for the high freq oscillation on a cap and battery (separate experiments)

BEP	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #114 on: 2010-06-11, 17:36:05 »
Group: Guest	As usual, I can't see the vid yet but... If the spikes are another view of your big result spike then the bursts are the undulation after the big spike. I relate that big spike to the high energy TPU arc and the folowing solitons to the loaded DC output. The aprox. 5khz tone I relate to the rotation frequency. A good thing to make moving charge change direction is a magnet.

Peterae	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #115 on: 2010-06-11, 22:08:01 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	G wouldn't one of these be better it's an avalanche transistor i can get these for 2-3 GBP http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/FMMT415.pdf

Grumpy	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #116 on: 2010-06-11, 22:44:18 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: Peterae on 2010-06-11, 22:08:01 G wouldn't one of these be better it's an avalanche transistor i can get these for 2-3 GBP http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/FMMT415.pdf They will be more consistent between devices and you probably won't have any bad ones. Keep in mind that you will need several at higher voltages. My 2N5551's av at about 240v - 260v and cost about 10 cents each.

szaxx	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #117 on: 2010-06-11, 23:08:45 »
Sr. Member Posts: 276	Hi, As avalanche semiconductors have been mentioned there exists avalanche photo diodes. These can operate as high as 1500 volts and operation speaks for itself. Wider bandwidths do give rise to more noise. I have never used them and unsure of their speed or current ratings at present. They may be of use in this project so are worth a mention. Steve.

Peterae	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #118 on: 2010-06-12, 09:26:15 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	G i see you ask about Oscillators on the other thread, whats your requirements, i guess the 555 is the easiest for low frequency's. I prefer the LTC1799 but you need to make a PCB for this little beast and have steady hands as it's a 5 pin chip the size of a sot23 SMD transistor, but with 1 resistor and 1 cap it has a range between 1kHz to 33MHz, the trick is to batch solder the leggs then wick the excess up if there are any shorts, use a 10 turn pot. Let me know i maybe able to help you, if you are interested i could knock some pcb's up and mail them, i would'nt mind having some more myself. Also LTC sent me some as freebies or option 2 build it yourself http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LTC1799-1kHz-33MHz-Oscillator-555-timer-alternative-/360266067165?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item53e187ecdd or direct from them http://eshop.tirnaelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=163&zenid=fbf86089979b368426a0c949a2fdaae1 maybe there's a source of these in the US « Last Edit: 2010-06-12, 09:41:26 by Peterae »

BEP	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #119 on: 2010-06-12, 13:47:33 »
Group: Guest	Peterae, I just understood you are using two separate noise generators. This may be cause for the rare occurrence of bursts and would eliminate any chance of rotational effects around the core conductor. I suggest you feed one signal into both bifilar conductors. Insert a delay before only one of the bifilar coils. The resulting two separate signals must match exactly, with the exception of phase, to create a helical path around the core conductor. Swapped the delayed and instant coil feeds to see if there is improvement possible. Apologies if you've already done this. « Last Edit: 2010-06-12, 14:03:30 by WaveWatcher »

Grumpy	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #120 on: 2010-06-12, 14:43:52 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: Peterae on 2010-06-12, 09:26:15 G i see you ask about Oscillators on the other thread, whats your requirements, i guess the 555 is the easiest for low frequency's. I prefer the LTC1799 but you need to make a PCB for this little beast and have steady hands as it's a 5 pin chip the size of a sot23 SMD transistor, but with 1 resistor and 1 cap it has a range between 1kHz to 33MHz, the trick is to batch solder the leggs then wick the excess up if there are any shorts, use a 10 turn pot. Let me know i maybe able to help you, if you are interested i could knock some pcb's up and mail them, i would'nt mind having some more myself. Also LTC sent me some as freebies or option 2 build it yourself http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LTC1799-1kHz-33MHz-Oscillator-555-timer-alternative-/360266067165?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item53e187ecdd or direct from them http://eshop.tirnaelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=163&zenid=fbf86089979b368426a0c949a2fdaae1 maybe there's a source of these in the US Thanks - need about 400kHz

Peterae	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #121 on: 2010-06-12, 20:25:13 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	Not sure if i mentioned that i had managed to scope the pulse directly across an Avremenko plug which in turn was connected to one wire of the monfilar that was being driven by both fet's. and then i have the strange feedback i am getting that causes the re triggering, even now although i have 2 totally separate channels, 2 separate whitenoise generators driving 2 separate fet stages, it still makes a difference if i advance the phase of one of them. Looks like my next action is a logical one to take, and that is to try and capture the energy using an Avremeko plug. Also i hadn't realized in the Spherics lab Patent for the audiospatial patent it clearly says SM used grey noise injection to enhance the sound spatially.

BEP	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #122 on: 2010-06-12, 21:16:42 »
Group: Guest	Grey noise is where frequency amplitudes are adjusted so they all 'sound' equal to the human ear. Unless the TPU is psychoelectric I can't imagine how Grey noise would have been part. With his obvious experience in the use of noise, I can imagine him trying all colors

Peterae	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #123 on: 2010-06-12, 21:28:10 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	G i would personly go for the LTC1799 see if you can buy it on ebay on a pcb or something in the US. If not i can mail some pcbs but you will need to solder them or go for a simple approach and use a 555 timer. EDIT WW yes i see your point grey noise

BEP	Re: Controller No5 With Protection - Looking for Explosions « Reply #124 on: 2010-06-12, 22:02:56 »
Group: Guest	If I must choose a noise color it would be red, pink or white. The reasons are related to things said by SM (if I remember correctly): 1. One ring had a higher Q than the other 2. Frequencies of 35 & 245k were mentioned 3. 245 was mentioned as if it was the upper end of a bandwidth 4. Lightning and signal at a distance and many other things relating to one long and one short or low & high. My deduction is any noise used is probably pink. The lower frequency would be 35.705kHz and highest amplitude. The highest frequency would be near 245kHz with lowest amplitude. The bandwidth of the noise generator would be around 210kHz. Pink noise is the noise common in nature. Brownian has possible application, too. Any way taken just requires the correct filter after the white noise generator.

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