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OverUnity Research > Electrical / Electronic Theory and Learning Center > bemf > Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector
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Author Topic: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector  (Read 335849 times)
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img  Erfinder
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #375 on: 2015-01-30, 12:30:39 »
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Quote from: JimBoot on 2015-01-28, 22:35:05
With all due respect that is your reality not mine. I really enjoy reading erfinder and watching his video. I don't know him but he seems like a smart honest bloke. Syair has shown a video with plans of a build and from what I can see has not held anything back. As EF has pointed out himself there is a lot we do not know about his setup.

I guess I'll see you at the finish line.

For your entertainment and or consideration........

http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/indexen.htm


Regards
   
img  TinMan
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #376 on: 2015-01-30, 12:48:25 »

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Buy me some coffee
Calling this a delayed lenz effect is not an accurate description.
This is more trying to delay the lorentz force,not the lenz law.
Lenz's law indicates the direction of the induced current,while the lorentz force law is tied in with Faraday's law of induction. Lorentz force is the magnetic force that acts on a wire carrying current within a magnetic field.

In knowing this,what you guys are trying to do,is delay an effect that needs to exist before current can flow. A magnetic field travels at the speed of light(so it is believed),so in knowing this,you may achieve a picosecond delay if your lucky.


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
img  Erfinder
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #377 on: 2015-01-30, 12:54:37 »
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Quote from: TinMan on 2015-01-30, 12:48:25
Calling this a delayed lenz effect is not an accurate description.
This is more trying to delay the lorentz force,not the lenz law.
Lenz's law indicates the direction of the induced current,while the lorentz force law is tied in with Faraday's law of induction. Lorentz force is the magnetic force that acts on a wire carrying current within a magnetic field.

In knowing this,what you guys are trying to do,is delay an effect that needs to exist before current can flow. A magnetic field travels at the speed of light(so it is believed),so in knowing this,you may achieve a picosecond delay if your lucky.

This isn't guilt by association.  My posting a link doesn't imply that I support whats being said about the phenomena, and for the record, delayed Lenz is a stupid idea, but that's my opinion, its not shared by the majority.  Results are what I care about, and this guy is demonstrating an "effect" which should have all who are interested in rotating machines attention.  I find that folks are too busy with the theory and not busy enough with mastering the effect itself. 


Regards
   
img  Grumage
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #378 on: 2015-01-30, 13:07:57 »

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Buy me a cigar
Dear Erfinder.

In your post above you make reference to this site. http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/indexen.htm

All I see is a mish mash of topics, admittedly, similar theme. Is there a specific area you are suggesting we should pay closer attention to ?

Cheers Grum.


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Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
   
img  Erfinder
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #379 on: 2015-01-30, 16:24:24 »
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Quote from: Grumage on 2015-01-30, 13:07:57
Dear Erfinder.

In your post above you make reference to this site. http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/indexen.htm

All I see is a mish mash of topics, admittedly, similar theme. Is there a specific area you are suggesting we should pay closer attention to ?

Cheers Grum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1422579428&x-yt-cl=85114404&v=YUoyuiQTrRA#t=17

Regards
« Last Edit: 2015-01-30, 17:55:02 by Erfinder »
   
img  Matt Watts
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #380 on: 2015-01-31, 02:17:29 »
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0.4 Watts lower at optimum distance compared with the "No load" where I'm assuming (but could be wrong) the coil and metal bar is completely removed.
   
img  Erfinder
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #381 on: 2015-01-31, 08:51:37 »
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Quote from: Matt Watts on 2015-01-31, 02:17:29
0.4 Watts lower at optimum distance compared with the "No load" where I'm assuming (but could be wrong) the coil and metal bar is completely removed.

You can look at this from any angle that you like.  The purpose of my posting a link to that guys information was to give those who would rather play the numbers game something to play with, and to give those who require a scientific foundation something to build on.  I do not support his numbers, nor his idea.  I do not support the concept of Delayed Lenz, I am only interested in the effect, and geometry needed to bring about that effect.  I showed you the same.


Regards
   
img  JimBoot
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #382 on: 2015-01-31, 10:24:35 »

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Picked up a washing machine today for a few cents from the scap guy. Got a great stator motor as well as a pump :) question. As I need my mags stationery I need to remove them from the rotor. They're ceramics, anyone got some cool way of removing them from a rotor without damaging them? Obviously not keen on using heat. Would a  :strong solvent do the trick?
   
img  TinMan
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #383 on: 2015-02-01, 03:41:41 »

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Buy me some coffee
Quote from: Mr. Caribbean on 2015-02-01, 03:00:49
Hi everyone,

Here's an update on the T1000 design...
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtWMullF4O0[/youtube]...it is the right link so...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtWMullF4O0

I've always post the info in the comment section of my videos but from now on i'll copy & paste it here as well...

Just another update on this Flux Gate Generator setup using the design from T-1000...^^
Now i'm using a 8 pole rotor but with ferrite bars instead of the half circle/sphere iron disks...;-)
Numbers,
Input is 23Vdc @ <75ma...sweet...;-)
Open coils = 1563 rpm...coool...
Coil & leds = 1556 rpm...pretty good...not bad at all...^^
Coil shorted = 1556 rpm...nice...
Output is nice and stable so no flickering at them leds...
Very little cogging, just a tiny winy bit...lol

Coils in the continuously shorted style...see professional diagram of it in the video...LOL...haha
Continuously shorting = 1563 rpm...o.O...very nice indeed...^^
Leds load = 1559 rpm...^^
Only 4 rpm drop...:DDD
The leds output may not be that much BUT neither is my input...;-)

I will use that b-emf in the near future configurations to light up a 230vac 1watt led lamp and use all of the output back to the source just for the fun of it...;-)
Don't know if the b-emf is enough to light up the lamp but it sure looks like it is...lol
Ah,theres the video ;D
Cant even see the rotor spinning it's that smooth O0
I see you havent lost your touch bro-nice setup there for sure.


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
img  JimBoot
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #384 on: 2015-02-01, 08:27:26 »

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Good to see you here @mcr - I've had a BIG decrease in input cost by having my axle vertical has halved the power required for same speeds.
   
img  wattsup
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #385 on: 2015-02-01, 16:21:43 »
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Sorry!
« Last Edit: 2015-02-12, 22:53:41 by wattsup »


---------------------------
http://etherimpress.com
   
img  Erfinder
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #386 on: 2015-02-01, 17:30:21 »
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Wattsup,

I enjoy reading your posts, they are always packed with lots of thought provoking information.  My thing is, I want that cancellation that's going on, its happening for a reason, and that reason is the reason why I am still playing with coils.  I am not interested in OU, I want more than that. 

My demonstration, acceleration under load using low inductance, low resistance coils operating at low frequency, has an even older beginning.  The original concept was embodied in a motor, but as we know, motors and generators are joined at the hip, when you understand one you know how the principles can be applied to the other.  Before there was this ignorant concept of delayed Lenz which seems to have just appeared out of nowhere there was a real concept.  The concept of producing magnetic phase difference, patented in 1894 by the man who kick started the 21st century.  You all know him as Mr. Niagara Falls, whenever hes in my neck of the woods I call him Nicky, all his friends call him Nicky.  Ladies and gentlemen of OUR, give a warm round of applause for the one the only, Nikola Tesla!


Regards
   
img  T-1000
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #387 on: 2015-02-01, 18:39:59 »
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Quote from: Mr. Caribbean on 2015-02-01, 03:00:49
Hi everyone,

Here's an update on the T1000 design...
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtWMullF4O0[/youtube]...it is the right link so...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtWMullF4O0


Thanks for the build :)

This is predicted behavior when you lessen losses in rotor cores.
The second step can be with overcoming sticky point with magnets/rotor blades ratio (aka Muller dynamo approach) and finding material for rotor cores which will allow maximum transfer of magnetic field to the coils without increasing much of Eddy currents in losses... This also will involve on lowering distance between coils and magnets due very short range of strong magnetic field.

Cheers!
   
img  T-1000
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #388 on: 2015-02-01, 21:29:47 »
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There is plenty of space to think about... :)

Also my design function in same wasy like magnetic amplifiers do - http://sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-amp/mag-amp.htm



When the rotor core get between two magnets behaves exactly like in that image and when it move away or approach magnet it just transfer magnetic field. And as you see, it does not require much energy to do that switching at all.. :)

Cheers!
   
img  Erfinder
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #389 on: 2015-02-02, 08:55:50 »
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Quote from: T-1000 on 2015-02-01, 21:29:47
There is plenty of space to think about... :)

Also my design function in same wasy like magnetic amplifiers do - http://sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-amp/mag-amp.htm



When the rotor core get between two magnets behaves exactly like in that image and when it move away or approach magnet it just transfer magnetic field. And as you see, it does not require much energy to do that switching at all.. :)

Cheers!


You can't be serious with this latest claim.......

I don't agree with this assessment that your machine operates like a magnetic amplifier.  From your demonstrations its clear to those who care to look that your circuit impedance changes from what could be consider as one parallel resonant frequency, to a higher parallel resonant frequency.  The result of which is that the higher induced potentials circulating in this "LC" at the newly established resonant frequency forces your consumption to drop, and fixes your rpm to that frequency, typical parallel resonant behavior, nothing to be proud of because its text book.  

A magnetic amplifier facilitates those conditions experienced during series LC resonance.  If your machine were truly behaving as a mag amplifier, the result would be that your machines consumption would increase, with the rpm, rpm would continue to increase, and consumption would continue to increase, frequency for frequency, simulating a series resonance at every frequency change.  I know this because all of my machines are built around the concept of controlled saturation, my machines are Magnetic Amplifiers.

I am sure a researcher such as yourself is familiar with the Amplidyne.  The Amplidyne is an electromechanical amplifier invented by Erst Alexanderson, the godfather of Magnetic Amplifier technology as we know it today.  Brushless DC motors and generators don't have wire wound armatures and the quadrature brush set, necessary attributes if the device is to be used as Amplidyne.  Here the magnetic amplifier serves as a go between, it allows one skilled in the art to establish those relations found in the Amplidyne between the armature and brush inductively.   In a pulsed DC system, a properly configured transformer has additional functions, it is not limited to its step up step down function.  Its not wise to say your device operates like something that it is not.  Here are two old images of a machine where a magnetic amplifier concept is being tested and advanced.


Regards
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #390 on: 2015-02-02, 17:01:00 »
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@wattsup
Quote
I could have posted this in any thread open on the forum and it will be on topic for all of them. At a certain point in any R&D efforts, you have to stop, look at what you have been doing, look at the results of those efforts, then propose changes in the general modus operandi to continue the R&D trying to hone in on the slightest deviations that change effects.

I would agree and the Engineer in me keeps telling me to do the same thing over and over with little consideration. So I started thinking more like an artist, I have a couple glasses of merlot, crank some Jimi Hendrix All along the watchtower and build stuff...it's my thing. I understand we feel compelled to follow because we seem to lack direction however intuitively I think we know the results.


I like your posts because right or wrong they offer another perspective in a comprehensive way and the devil is always in the details.

AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  T-1000
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #391 on: 2015-02-02, 18:22:55 »
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Quote from: Erfinder on 2015-02-02, 08:55:50
You can't be serious with this latest claim.......
What difference do you see between saturated core when it is part of transformer and when it physically moves in between two strong magnets and get saturated there?
I see none except it is on different applications. The secondary/generator coil still get same change in inductivity due changed core parameters in both cases.
So the rest is up to you to thinking if output coil is behaving same or not.
Also for the transformer case the amount of current is changing with core saturation while with permanent magnets we do not care much due their constant magnetic field strength output... ;)
   
img  wattsup
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #392 on: 2015-02-02, 19:08:07 »
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Sorry!
« Last Edit: 2015-02-12, 22:52:25 by wattsup »


---------------------------
http://etherimpress.com
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #393 on: 2015-02-03, 00:54:39 »
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@wattsup

I don't know exactly what Erfinder is doing however I know there are very many ways to do what he is doing. However I would have to get Erfinder's permission to tell everyone how I would do it as well as the implications. I would hate to spoil the surprise if Erfinder ever decided to disclosed it.

AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  Erfinder
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #394 on: 2015-02-03, 07:38:30 »
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Quote from: Allcanadian on 2015-02-03, 00:54:39
@wattsup

I don't know exactly what Erfinder is doing however I know there are very many ways to do what he is doing. However I would have to get Erfinder's permission to tell everyone how I would do it as well as the implications. I would hate to spoil the surprise if Erfinder ever decided to disclosed it.

AC

AC,

We have been here before......This time around you ask for permission which is interesting.  I am a tad bit confused, first you say you don't know exactly what I'm doing, I can agree with that, however, your follow up statement that there are many ways of doing it after having stated that you don't know what it is that I'm doing is kinda odd.

Please by all means inform the good folks here of what you "think"  I am doing and how "you" would go about doing it, and the implications of doing it your way.  I am curious about this surprise you hate to spoil.  It is my sincerest hope AC that you don't just throw a few lines of well arranged text, which reads as if it were prepared by one of the wisest philosophers of our time.  I hope you put your best foot forward as I am trying to do, and provide the good folks here with a demonstration.  If you are unable or unwilling to give a demonstration, then I don't see the point in you sharing your view, that being said...please show your work, I recommend starting a new thread if you do, and we can take this discussion there.  Please remember, I have little or no interest in an assessment which has no supporting demo.



Regards
   
img  T-1000
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #395 on: 2015-02-03, 08:15:25 »
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Quote from: Mr. Caribbean on 2015-02-03, 07:24:33
Here's a pic on how i have the T1000 Flux Gate Design... ;D
White are the coil cores...black are the half iron disks...red & blue magnets ofcourse...you are looking at it from above... ;)
Hope i get this pic posting right... C.C
With even/even arrangement the Lorenz force is causing trouble. If you treat rotor cores as magnets with  repulsion on approach and attraction on leave over stationary magnets the even/odd configuration becomes obvious... ;)
That also solve problem with Eddy currents slowing down rotor due geometry of arrangements.

Cheers!
   
img  JimBoot
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #396 on: 2015-02-03, 08:24:48 »

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Quote from: Mr. Caribbean on 2015-02-03, 07:24:33
Here's a pic on how i have the T1000 Flux Gate Design... ;D
White are the coil cores...black are the half iron disks...red & blue magnets ofcourse...you are looking at it from above... ;)
Hope i get this pic posting right... C.C

For his design this configuration gives me almost zero cogging... O0...but eddy is killing it at higher rpm...lol
Video here,
[youtube]bTL7Pvtm-3s[/youtube]

Cheers
p.s....how come my pic is sooo large on here...lol
Hey Vlad do you have cores in your coils? What are your rotor irons made of? I'm not seeing any noticeable eddy current probs which is why I ask. I'm using silicon steel in the core and the rotor.
   
img  JimBoot
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #397 on: 2015-02-04, 08:21:26 »

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 :-[
   
img  gotoluc
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #398 on: 2015-02-04, 22:38:24 »
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Hi everyone,
 
I've been busy with another project for the past 3 weeks and didn't have the time to complete one of my last experiment to confirm if this effect has any value.
So before closing the book on this one, since my previous version was not showing a good results and was also a different design, I wanted to build a single coil version of Dragon's version (Energetic Forum user) since he claimed to have some good results.
 
Even with these changes, my results are not positive, however, I made a video of it anyways so all can see.
 
From all the replication attempts that I've seen, researchers are not doing power calculations (watts in and watts out), so as far as I'm concerned they won't see the reality until they do.
 
Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0souZVPKw8
 
I'm moving on to testing Erfinder's multi strand bucking coils.
 
Luc
   
img  wattsup
Re: Flux Gate Interrupter, BEMF Redirector « Reply #399 on: 2015-02-04, 23:15:16 »
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Sorry!
« Last Edit: 2015-02-12, 22:51:19 by wattsup »


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http://etherimpress.com
   
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