GDS 3 KW generator runs on water

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Matt Watts	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #100 on: 2014-10-29, 00:28:55 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: TinMan on 2014-10-28, 23:25:20 In regards to the output of the PMA,take a look at the output from one of the smartdrive motors i have ,being used as an alternator-and these have only ferrite magnets in them. May have to skip to about 2 minutes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R_ziYunY3g Lordy, that makes quite the plasma arc. Run it with a Pelton wheel at 5000 RPM and you'd really have something there. The trick would be getting it back to mains power. You suppose that's what the battery and inverters are doing? Hitting the battery with high voltage spikes and drawing it back off at a sufficient rate to keep the battery from exploding? If the GDS device is for real, I'd have to bet only one or two devices in there are for OU; the rest is to govern the energy to keep things stable and to make the output power usable. And if Mr. Potter has done this using off-the-shelf components, I can't for the life of me figure out why none of us have stumbled into the secret by accident.

Tommey Reed	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #101 on: 2014-10-29, 07:27:30 »
Group: Guest	Hi All, I understand that no matter how many poles your generator is, you will increase torque needed to produce energy. So: 1kw @1000 rpms would need 5252/1000=5.25ft1.34 = 7.04 foot pounds of constant torque. Or: 1kw @ 3000rpms would need 5252/3000=1.75ft/lb1.34=2.34 foot pounds of constant torque. But: For every kilowatt in gasoline engine will take a average of 2hp, diesel is only 1.5 hp. I know you guys know this Tom

Centraflow	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #102 on: 2014-10-29, 08:25:51 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Yep they certainly make a awsome generator, never seen sparks being drawn from one like that though, one hell of a current to do that, did notice the motor loading. You could weld with that, no problem With regards the pressure, no won't cut your arm off because the pressure of the jet is not what your thinking, that is my whole point, think about 2500 pounds of weight all on a square inch of your body (constant pressure), or on the body of your car when you are washing it. The pressure on one side of the jet is not the same as the other side (the outlet). regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Centraflow	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #103 on: 2014-10-29, 11:13:20 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	I have posted this on EF, it speaks for itself. The only thing that needs to be worked out is how the 4th motor is in relation to the Pelton wheel inside the tank, as always it is the part we can not see POST:- In the total unit there are 4 motors/generators, two of which are connected by a belt drive, one is a PMA driven by a pelton turbine wheel, and the other is an AC motor of which we do not know what it does!!!!! but seems to be connected to something inside the water tank at the bottom corner. First the two connected by a pully belt. The dark coloured one seems to be a DC motor and the silver one is a single phase motor driving a high pressure pump on the end (box on end), but the wiring box and run cap have been removed so as it can be wired 3 phase (wires coming out of motor). Because it is now 3phase and there is no three phase until the pelton PMA is running, it is started up by the 12v DC motor via the pully which is connected to where the fan used to be Now there is 3phase, and the now 3phase pressure pump is running on it's own, albeit a closed loop with the pelton PMA, which science says it can not be Now that DC motor is running from the second battery, the battery with the low amp wire, here we have to look at the different possible senarios:- 1. the motor continues running as a motor and supplimenting the 3phase motor (possibly why PMA and pump can be looped) 2. it has now become a generator and recharging the start battery 3. it is doing both the above depending on load controller (most probable) 4. it was only a start motor and after free running. The Pelton driven PMA stands for itself apart from water configuration along with motor (AC) 4. Now the fourth motor, an AC motor as you can see the cap shroud on the casing, and about all that is known about this motor. So what is this motor doing? work that one out, and if this is not a scam you have cracked it regards Mike END POST regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Allcanadian	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #104 on: 2014-10-29, 18:51:42 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	@Matt Quote Force at water impact against the blades/buckets is a bit of an unknown to me. PSI? Water volume? There are factors there I'd have to see experimentally to fully understand the mechanics. It does seem to me you would want the water jet facing straight down to pickup any effects of gravity too. Kinetics would suggest the force impinged on each blade/bucket should be the difference in velocity between the water jet and the blade/bucket, times the mass of the water actually reduced in speed. Maybe someone with a clear head and strong math skills can work-up a chart that shows these relationships with various test points, say ten example plots A clear head... well maybe not so much but I used to design gas turbines and wrote code for many simulators. Here is the important stuff, a centrifugal pump imparts a velocity to the working fluid(air/water) and the tip speed (outermost tip of blade) determines the max pressure developed and the spacing between the blades(area) determines the max volume. The impeller increases the "momentum" (mass x velocity) of the fluid and at the outlet the area increases(volute casing) converting velocity to pressure. Decreasing velocity = increasing pressure, vice versa. If the working fluid under pressure is ejected through a nozzle/decreasing area then the pressure is converted to velocity. Here it's important to keep an eye on momentum (mass x velocity) as it's increasing. Now if the working fluid hits the blade of a turbine wheel then the decrease in momentum(mv) of the fluid is equal to the increase of momentum(mv) of the blade/disk. A load on the disk is simply another way of saying momentum is transferred which tends to decrease the velocity of the disk despite the accelerating force of the fluid. The blade turning angle and velocity determines how much momentum is transferred from the fluid to the disk ie. efficiency. A pelton turbine has a large turning angle near 150 degrees and generally has a tip speed at 1/2 the nozzle exit velocity. In any case it's very easy to understand once it is understood that everything revolves around a change in momentum. Change in momentum(source)>pressure>change in momentum(load). I must be a slow learner because it took me years and a probably a few hundred thousand lines of code before it all made perfect sense. Mind you this was a couple decades ago but it's like riding a bike. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

Tommey Reed	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #105 on: 2014-10-29, 21:39:31 »
Group: Guest	Hi all, This is the best way to produce power at a high efficient way. 6hp Diesel motor running at 2700 rpm's with a 3600 rpm generator head. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65_Ad4VuG1s Tom

Matt Watts	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #106 on: 2014-10-29, 21:47:28 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2014-10-29, 18:51:42 ... everything revolves around a change in momentum. Thanks AC. That's what I was thinking too. So having built an actual simulator of this effect, do you see any possible way this could extract excess mechanical energy? I mean sure, if small portions of water were being transformed into pure energy, then obviously such a transformation would have loads of abundant energy available. I can't imagine this happening though. I would like to get to the bottom of why the GDS supposedly consumes water, unless it is purely liquid and/or vapor leakage. Sure would have been nice if Chet and PhysicsProf could have went up there and tested an actual unit and came back with a components list and a block diagram of how everything hooks together. If this device is for real, there is clearly something we've all seen before that we've dismissed before we actually understood it.

muDped	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #107 on: 2014-10-29, 23:17:32 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3055	Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014-10-29, 21:39:31 Hi all, This is the best way to produce power at a high efficient way. 6hp Diesel motor running at 2700 rpm's with a 3600 rpm generator head. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65_Ad4VuG1s Tom Very nice! Where were you able to find the single cylinder diesel engine? Reasonably priced? --------------------------- For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

evolvingape	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #108 on: 2014-10-30, 01:16:15 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2502 Everyman decries immorality	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2014-10-29, 18:51:42 @Matt Here is the important stuff, a centrifugal pump imparts a velocity to the working fluid(air/water) and the tip speed (outermost tip of blade) determines the max pressure developed and the spacing between the blades(area) determines the max volume. The impeller increases the "momentum" (mass x velocity) of the fluid and at the outlet the area increases(volute casing) converting velocity to pressure. Decreasing velocity = increasing pressure, vice versa. AC Please correct this for the kiddies.. Working fluids air and water cannot be, and are not, treated the same as one is hydraulic and the other is pneumatic and have differing operating characteristics under the same prime mover force. In other words one is compressible and the other is not, one is a gas the other is a liquid. Pressure is the Force per unit Area.. P = F / A however in a fluid dynamics environment mass flow must also be taken into account, and what happens next depends on whether the fluid is compressible or not. --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs. Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security. Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.

Tommey Reed	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #109 on: 2014-10-30, 01:28:03 »
Group: Guest	Hi Mudped, I got my engine on ebay for $550.00 with shipping. The price went up a little: http://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-6hp-diesel-engine.html Tom

Allcanadian	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #110 on: 2014-10-30, 03:05:18 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	@evolvingape Quote Working fluids air and water cannot be, and are not, treated the same as one is hydraulic and the other is pneumatic and have differing operating characteristics under the same prime mover force. In other words one is compressible and the other is not, one is a gas the other is a liquid. Pressure is the Force per unit Area.. P = F / A however in a fluid dynamics environment mass flow must also be taken into account, and what happens next depends on whether the fluid is compressible or not. I would agree, you know it used to take me 10 pages of paper using both sides to calculate a simple single stage gas turbine to match point. Which is why I started writing my own gas turbine simulation programs to do all the number crunching for me. As such I can make this as complicated as you want however for the average person who just wants to understand the basic process it should be kept as simple a possible. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

wings	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #111 on: 2014-10-30, 05:47:52 »
Group: Guest	http://www.homepower.com/microhydro-power http://www.microhydropower.net/ ... for small power Turgo wheel is better http://www.h-hydro.com/ http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/hydro.html all sizing ..... calculation and spreadsheet here http://h-hydro.com/New_Site/technical-information/ http://homehydro.com/charts.html more: http://www.smallhydropower.com/thes.html parts: http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/pmaparts.html « Last Edit: 2014-10-30, 06:51:30 by wings »

Matt Watts	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #112 on: 2014-10-30, 09:05:53 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: evolvingape on 2014-10-30, 01:16:15 Please correct this for the kiddies.. I guess it works something like this: http://www.google.com/patents/WO2006085782A1 http://www.google.com/patents/US20130038062 Where the major concept involved is that water IS compressible, something I never knew to be true. Use a moving flow of water and a valve to actually compress the water, then release it with much higher pressure. « Last Edit: 2014-10-30, 10:10:52 by Matt Watts »

Tommey Reed	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #113 on: 2014-10-30, 11:09:04 »
Group: Guest	Hi all, I don't know why people still would think that pumping water no matter what pressure or volume would produce extra power? I have done many experiments in this field, you will have too many loss due to friction and load, I would say that this water generator is a total scam. History show that when Stirling is involve it's always in the past a scam to make money! Good luck on this one! Tom

Paul-R	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #114 on: 2014-10-30, 14:43:49 »
Hero Member Posts: 1579	Quote from: Matt Watts on 2014-10-30, 09:05:53 I guess it works something like this: http://www.google.com/patents/WO2006085782A1 http://www.google.com/patents/US20130038062 Where the major concept involved is that water IS compressible, something I never knew to be true. Use a moving flow of water and a valve to actually compress the water, then release it with much higher pressure. Interesting. The first patent mentions water cavitation, hammer. Reminiscent of John Worrell Keely and hjis Hydro Vaccuo Machine.

evolvingape	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #115 on: 2014-10-30, 16:32:13 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2502 Everyman decries immorality	Quote from: Matt Watts on 2014-10-30, 09:05:53 I guess it works something like this: http://www.google.com/patents/WO2006085782A1 http://www.google.com/patents/US20130038062 Where the major concept involved is that water IS compressible, something I never knew to be true. Use a moving flow of water and a valve to actually compress the water, then release it with much higher pressure. That's because it is not true.. water is not compressible but it can flash to vapour under the right conditions. "Water, being a compressible and elastic material can be subjected to very high pressured compression and low pressured expansion." Now that's funny! This guy does not have a clue how his own 'invention' 'works'! The hydraulic ram has been around for a long time.. no mystery there, and to use the high pressure jet to turn a water wheel of some sort is not a mystery either. The claim in that patent that there is an energy surplus from that system as described made me laugh. I am not going to bother with the second patent there is nothing of value in it at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_ram A hydraulic ram, or hydram, is a cyclic water pump powered by hydropower. It takes in water at one "hydraulic head" (pressure) and flow rate, and outputs water at a higher hydraulic head and lower flow rate. The device uses the water hammer effect to develop pressure that allows a portion of the input water that powers the pump to be lifted to a point higher than where the water originally started. The hydraulic ram is sometimes used in remote areas, where there is both a source of low-head hydropower and a need for pumping water to a destination higher in elevation than the source. In this situation, the ram is often useful, since it requires no outside source of power other than the kinetic energy of flowing water. Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014-10-30, 11:09:04 Hi all, I don't know why people still would think that pumping water no matter what pressure or volume would produce extra power? Tom Haha yeah I know funny isn't it. People don't bother asking my opinion on 'OU' systems like this anymore cos normally I just start laughing and they get upset. « Last Edit: 2014-10-30, 16:58:25 by evolvingape » --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs. Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security. Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.

Matt Watts	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #116 on: 2014-10-30, 17:12:21 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: evolvingape on 2014-10-30, 16:32:13 That's because it is not true.. water is not compressible but it can flash to vapour under the right conditions. Haha yeah I know funny isn't it. People don't bother asking my opinion on 'OU' systems like this anymore cos normally I just start laughing and they get upset. I can handle the truth. I always thought water was not compressible, then along comes this patent that says the water compresses at a rate of 0.77%. Small granted, but still there. Got me thinking... If water is in motion and you abruptly stop it, the negative acceleration is infinite. Taking the mass of all that water into account, doesn't this imply there is also a force of infinity? Wouldn't that be enough to overcome even the strong nuclear force? Something tells me nature doesn't work that way...

evolvingape	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #117 on: 2014-10-30, 17:14:26 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2502 Everyman decries immorality	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2014-10-30, 03:05:18 @evolvingape however for the average person who just wants to understand the basic process it should be kept as simple a possible. AC Agreed. Water is hydraulic (non compressible) Air is pneumatic (compressible) and obeys the gas laws relating volume, temperature and pressure. Water with air bubbles entrained in the flow is part hydraulic and part pneumatic which I call a semi elastic working fluid. Water with hho bubbles entrained in the flow is semi elastic until you trigger the combustion reaction somehow, and then the bubbles turn to water and the working fluid becomes entirely hydraulic almost instantaneously. Backpressure.. what is it ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_pressure Back pressure refers to pressure opposed to the desired flow of a fluid in a confined place such as a pipe. It is often caused by obstructions or tight bends in the confinement vessel along which it is moving, such as piping or air vents. Because it is really resistance, the term back pressure is misleading as the pressure remains and causes flow in the same direction, but the flow is reduced due to resistance. For example, an automotive exhaust muffler with a particularly high number of twists, bends, turns and right angles could be described as having particularly high back pressure. I know you understand what backpressure is AC, but for the people that don't here it is. --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs. Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security. Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.

Tommey Reed	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #118 on: 2014-10-30, 17:22:59 »
Group: Guest	Hi All, I believe I have a lot to say in this field, many may not remember my Richard Clem Engine projects. I learn so much building a few prototypes out of my own pocket, with pumps and different designs. The water cavitation won't hold up in any system, most hydroelectric plant avoid cavitation due to the effects it has on the turbines. I believe this GDS is nothing more then a battery power water pump to get less energy out then using those big batteries in the inverter. Ever wonder why two big batteries is being used? Also who is this Greg Potter, has anyone look this guy up? Most people will have a past when looking up their names, this guy has nothing and GDS Technologies is just a front name that is being used. A few GDS Technologies I found: http://www.gdstech.co.za/ http://www.bluwan.com/company/strategic-partners/gds-technologies.html http://www.gdstechnology.org/ Another point is, Facebook started GDS on 08/24/14 https://www.facebook.com/GDSTechnologies/info Youtube in 08/5/14: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpO2LkAY98euyQQd4aLV8XA/about My point is not a single picture of the Greg Potter or past post, It's like he pop up out of the blues. My opinion is it's a scam like James Hardy and the rest of them. If I'm wrong, then I'm man enough to to say that. Tom

evolvingape	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #119 on: 2014-10-30, 17:33:07 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2502 Everyman decries immorality	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2014-10-29, 18:51:42 @Matt Here is the important stuff, a centrifugal pump imparts a velocity to the working fluid(air/water) and the tip speed (outermost tip of blade) determines the max pressure developed and the spacing between the blades(area) determines the max volume. The impeller increases the "momentum" (mass x velocity) of the fluid and at the outlet the area increases(volute casing) converting velocity to pressure. Decreasing velocity = increasing pressure, vice versa. In any case it's very easy to understand once it is understood that everything revolves around a change in momentum. Change in momentum(source)>pressure>change in momentum(load). AC AC had it right, when the valve slams shut on a hydraulic ram the water in the pipe behind the valve still has momentum, the sum of its mass x velocity. This momentum energy has nowhere to go and backpressure builds driving the water through the only tube available to it, the reduced bore high pressure tube. You will get a much higher pressure from this but the mass flow has reduced substantially. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli%27s_principle --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs. Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security. Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.

Tommey Reed	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #120 on: 2014-10-30, 17:35:46 »
Group: Guest	I will also add, I will be willing to do any experiment if you guys would like to see with water or hydraulic, I still have lots of good parts to work with. I will even copy the James Hardy design to prove a point. I have the pump he was using called T10000 or 10,000 GPH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhwQt1tJYa8 http://www.graystonecreations.com/Cal-Pump-Torpedo-Pumps_c_21.html Tom

evolvingape	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #121 on: 2014-10-30, 17:47:25 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2502 Everyman decries immorality	Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014-10-30, 17:22:59 My opinion is it's a scam like James Hardy and the rest of them. Tom My opinion too Tommy! --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs. Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security. Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.

Centraflow	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #122 on: 2014-10-30, 18:44:02 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Well I think we all think it is a scam, still it is nice to break down the possibilities. The pelton I found interesting as it is not volume but impulse that it works with, that opens up a lot of possibilities for projects regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Matt Watts	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #123 on: 2014-10-30, 19:03:30 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014-10-30, 17:35:46 I will be willing to do any experiment if you guys would like to see with water or hydraulic, I still have lots of good parts to work with. I will even copy the James Hardy design to prove a point. I have the pump he was using called T10000 or 10,000 GPH Actually Tom, if you would attempt this replication, I sure would appreciate it. If it fails and you don't see anything interesting along the way, it would put this concept to bed for sure. Use a transfer switch though--don't try to unplug and replug as he did. Hopefully your rocket stove can burn pieces of wet wood after all is said and done.

Chet K	Re: GDS 3 KW generator runs on water « Reply #124 on: 2014-10-30, 20:27:46 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Tom I think we need to let this sit a few weeks ,when first reported we were hopeful for a visit to validate the claim in person. while that is not off the table yet ,we should at the very least try to establish the MO pryor to building a device that is not accurate to the alleged running principle. we can cry foul and not even be on the same page as the inventor ?? Just my three cents worth. thx Chet

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