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Author Topic: New Rocket Mass Heater Project.  (Read 15573 times)
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img  Tommey Reed
New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « on: 2014-10-12, 03:03:39 »
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Hi All,

It's getting cold again and I will need to keep warm in my basement for other projects this winter.

I plane to build a 2 rocket mass heater, this design is more advanced in design.

The first unit is the basic, and the second one it for heating water and air duct flow style.

This guy has a good design also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfAHASx50B8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hd36FQfiGY
Tom
« Last Edit: 2014-10-12, 03:41:03 by Tommey Reed »
   
img  Centraflow
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #1 on: 2014-10-12, 11:37:41 »

Group: Experimentalist
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Buy me a beer
Tom

your serpentine tube for heating water will not work, you have an air trap in the pipe, you must not have a high point that you can't get the air out of it, a pump will not do it in a ring circuit.

Your pipe should be in at the bottom and out at the top without traps, even bleed valves will cause problems as when water is heated, gases are given off, then you will have a trap again and no circulation.

Remember also hot water rises and cold water falls, natural flow, so if you put some radiators on the next floor above, you will need no pump ;) as long as you do what I said about rise and fall.

hope it helps

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
img  Tommey Reed
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #2 on: 2014-10-12, 13:03:38 »
Group: Guest
Hi Centraflow,

I agree, to a point!

Water is feed upwards with a small water pump, as long there is water flowing  I don't see a problem.

Just my opinion.

Tom
   
img  Chet K
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #3 on: 2014-10-12, 15:03:27 »
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Tom
so this one will be all steel?

I have a question regarding the air flow thru the stove ,specifically CFM
I imagine they call it rocket for a reason [sound]?

implies a large volume of air passing from the heated area and up or out the chimney

air we paid to heat ,perhaps some ideas can be bandied around here for easy solutions to
bring in outside air for combustion ?

thx
Chet
   
img  Centraflow
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #4 on: 2014-10-12, 15:15:58 »

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Buy me a beer
Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014-10-12, 13:03:38
Hi Centraflow,

I agree, to a point!

Water is feed upwards with a small water pump, as long there is water flowing  I don't see a problem.

Just my opinion.

Tom


If it is to feed radiators "closed loop" it will never work, you will always have a trap of air and the water will never pass, believe me, I have been designing heating and air conditioning systems for a long time.

As I have said, a pump makes no difference, just build a jacket around the center burner tube with an inlet at the bottom and an outlet at the top. The surface area to the burner tube will be the greatest as well, so it will have a greater Kw or Btu rating.

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
img  Centraflow
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #5 on: 2014-10-12, 15:30:41 »

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Buy me a beer
Something like this

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
img  Chet K
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #6 on: 2014-10-12, 15:40:51 »
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We need to do this as well

http://biolitestove.com/

thx
Chet
   
img  Centraflow
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #7 on: 2014-10-12, 16:06:19 »

Group: Experimentalist
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Buy me a beer
Quote from: Chet K on 2014-10-12, 15:40:51
We need to do this as well

http://biolitestove.com/

thx
Chet

Chet, that is cool 8) but the price is :o

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
img  Tommey Reed
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #8 on: 2014-10-26, 20:36:44 »
Group: Guest
Hi All,

Been busy making $$$, but started this rocket mass heater project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxXyDkxN1r4

Tom
   
img  Tommey Reed
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #9 on: 2014-10-29, 00:23:08 »
Group: Guest
Hi all,

Just about finished on this rocket mass heater project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW7vfNqD03U

Tom
   
img  Tommey Reed
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #10 on: 2014-10-31, 21:28:27 »
Group: Guest
Hi All,

Ok done with the rocket mass heater, getting ready to test run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUSvJMrMwvk

Tom
   
img  Tommey Reed
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #11 on: 2014-10-31, 23:13:03 »
Group: Guest
Hi All,

Ok the finished rocket mass heater works great...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1btCpb4puM

Tom
   
img  Chet K
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #12 on: 2014-11-01, 00:32:01 »
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Tom
Nice solid build, have you stoked it and gotten a run time yet[before refilling] will these run overnight?
Also curious to see your hydraulic green wood chip,  monster pellet maker idea,and how they burn in the stove.


thx for sharing

Chet
   
img  evolvingape
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #13 on: 2014-11-01, 00:34:25 »

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Everyman decries immorality
Good stuff Tommey! I like it  O0


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
img  Tommey Reed
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #14 on: 2014-11-01, 16:32:21 »
Group: Guest
Hi All,

Ok, this is the next part for the rocket mass heater, a water injected diaphragm steam engine.

How it works is using high temperature diaphragm with a linear piston and a stainless steel pot.

Step 1: Preheat surface of pot.
Step 2: As piston most downward to bottom of the pot, water is injected that converts into steam.
step 3: As the steam force the piston upward, it hits the release valve to allow extra steam to decrease pressure.
step 4: Piston is allow to move downward until is close the valve and the water to be injected again.

What do you all think?

Tom
   
img  Tommey Reed
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #15 on: 2014-11-02, 23:24:19 »
Group: Guest
Hi All,

This is my update on the rocket mass heater.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6DvsGerBkw

Tom
   
img  Tommey Reed
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #16 on: 2014-11-07, 01:35:34 »
Group: Guest
Hi All,

Having a wood chipper, I needed to try a experiment on simple gasifier to burn them.

I wanted to create a gasifier feed tube for wood chips to burn, it seems it works great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WubNspmIzM

Tom
   
img  Matt Watts
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #17 on: 2014-11-07, 01:52:03 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: Tommey Reed on 2014-11-07, 01:35:34
Hi All,

Having a wood chipper, I needed to try a experiment on simple gasifier to burn them.

I wanted to create a gasifier feed tube for wood chips to burn, it seems it works great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WubNspmIzM

Tom


Some very nice work there Tom.

As hot as that thing gets down in there, I would imagine your ash accumulation is pretty small in comparison to the amount of wood you actually consume.

Boy, if I had a way to put one of those units in my garage, I'd be picking your brain for all the dimensions and materials.  You really have a good design and it seems to work like a charm.
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #18 on: 2014-11-08, 19:44:26 »
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@Matt
Quote
Boy, if I had a way to put one of those units in my garage, I'd be picking your brain for all the dimensions and materials.  You really have a good design and it seems to work like a charm.

You know about 30 years ago my father bought a small wood burning stove about 30" square and 36" high which had some unique features. First it had 2 mechanical thermostats which could be set to control, primary air from below moderating the burn time and secondary air from the sides which kept the glass clean and fed a catalytic ceramic combustor. The ceramic combustor just below the stack outlet would glow red hot combusting any soot produced by an incomple burn. It also had a variable speed fan which modulated with the burn temperature which most people have trouble grasping even in this supposedly modern age. I remember we could load that stove up at 10pm and it would still have red hot coals at 8am the next morning. As far as I know it still runs as good today as it did back then 30 years ago.

The lesson here is that a few basic controls applied in an intelligent way can produce extended burn times and complete efficient combustion. I mean no offence but the wood burning stove we had 30 years ago makes Tommy's device look absurd because there is no getting around one simple fact. If it is not very easy to use and cannot operate efficiently on it's own in a safe manner over a long period of time then it's probably not worth doing. I know it looks neat however it is in no way practical unless we want to waste a great deal of time dorking around with simple things which are easy to automate.

AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  Chet K
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #19 on: 2014-11-08, 20:20:04 »
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Tom
I too would be interested in a design which can burn at such high temps in a localized "reactor" [Blow torch effect]
thus adding to the much cleaner burning of other materials,  as well as taking wood straight off the limb and into the stove.

And of course exploring the feasibility of  high temp burning of other waste materials .[perhaps adding some sun ripened HHO into the mix]  
 O0

Grum and I have been exploring a similar idea with Coal , HHO and this Blow torch effect you are working with.

we're also going to be looking at this LPG HHO DESIGN  [I believe I mentioned this one to you??]
claims twice the heat and much cleaner burn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pllkWUGMGQk

and this is his simple method to try this [direct manifold injection]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2jOToHPQsk&list=UUvDorPhneBmayLUUgv12vzw


of course in the Coal/wasted fuel  designs  outside air would need to "feed" combustion so as not to remove heated air from the Home.

Tom,  thanks for sharing your simple and robust Rocket stove   I really like the "reactor" idea .

@AC
how does your Dad's stove handle Green wood or Green Chips/shreddings
any Chimney fire concerns ?
Allso
I know at one time you did mention a cheap emissions "sniffer" [CPU type of program???}

I am new to this type heating technology  :(  

Thx
Chet
ps sorry to clog your thread with the other things [HHO COAL LPG AND WASTE BURNING], they will be in a separate thread.
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #20 on: 2014-11-08, 23:56:24 »
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@Chet
Quote
how does your Dad's stove handle Green wood or Green Chips/shreddings
any Chimney fire concerns ?

It had no issues with green material once a bed of hot coals was established and the catalytic combustor at the stove outlet was designed burn off soot thus it was basically impossible to have a chimney fire. The catalytic combustor was simply a ceramic material with thin honeycomb shaped channels in it and it could be replaced by the used ceramic beads from an automotive catalytic converter as the concept is exactly the same. Heat up the beads from the hot flue gas then add a little excess air and it works exactly like the catalytic converter on your car.

Quote
I know at one time you did mention a cheap emissions "sniffer" [CPU type of program???}
I am new to this type heating technology
 

For the average person there are only a few things to keep in mind... the three "T's". Time, Temperature, Turbulence and Air. Excess Air not directly involved in the combustion process is simply heated air and generally just goes right up the stack unless the heat is utilized and only the oxygen in air (21%) takes part in the combustion process. As well wood does not burn, yes wood does not burn and it is the combustible gasses coming off the material that actually burns. The max temperature of the burn is determined by the color of the gasses(red, yellow, blue etc..) and the air standard thermal efficiency is determined by the stack/outlet  temperature divided by the max burn temperature, or Out/In = Efficiency.

So when I see these rocket stove video's I see things very differently, most go ooh look at that burn and I go ooh it should last about 2 minutes at that rate and most of the energy went right up the stack. They say look no smoke and I think yes because they spent 10 minutes gathering little sticks and then had to sit in front of that ridiculous machine and slowly place them in one by one to get a 2 minute burn. I understand the entertainment value is high however the efficiency is low and work involved in keeping it going is high thus it is little more than a bobble in my opinion, we can do better.

AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #21 on: 2014-11-09, 01:00:30 »
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I should also note that our perspective on burning wood or other materials is flawed in every sense of the word.
As I said wood does not burn, the material heats up and starts off-gassing and it is the combustible gasses that "burn" however it doesn't actually "burn" or combust. It goes like this... the material gets hot(Temperature), it starts off-gassing, the heat present sustains a reaction(Time) whereby O2 in (Air) comes into contact (Turbulence) with the molecules of the hydrocarbon gasses, the burn is a chemical reaction liberating energy when the atoms of molecules bond to other molecules ie..(CO + O2 = CO2), the "fire" we think we see is the ionization of the gasses illuminating them for our viewing pleasure.

It is very easy to understand but as always we cannot rely on common sense in regards to what we think we see happening because it's not, it's nothing more than an illusion. The terms wood, burn and fire are completely meaningless in terms of what is actually happening in reality as it relates to science.
Here is a clue... light a wooden match and see if the flame actually burns on the surface of the match, it does not.

AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  muDped
Re: New Rocket Mass Heater Project. « Reply #22 on: 2014-11-09, 02:12:14 »

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AC,

You almost got it right.  Except for the part about
how the visible light is produced.  Non-visible light
is also produced too.

Try again...


---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
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