@TinMan
Thanks for opening this thread.
I think the main word in H production is H and O "Recombination". I am convinced that in any case, or, in all cases that use rising plates, wet or dry type, there will be a good 50% to 80% of the energy that is lost anyways, regardless of how you try to arrange the plates.
The first video I made is here and I will be putting a few more with some pretty crazy visuals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbpLVSwIkeEMy take is very simple. It seems to me that there is no real study of the HHO process. I have been searching endlessly for tech papers specifically on H and O recombination during the water electrolysis process. All I could find are recombination of the noble gases at high temperatures via catalysts but I am amazed that a University has not already done some very good close up videos of H bubble creation using their state of the art equipment. Hydrogen is the simplest atom around and readily available to see the effects even closer then what I have managed to do.
If you consider that 1 litre of water can produce up to 4707 litres of hydrogen the present systems are peanuts and there is a major reason for this lack of production advancement.
http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae367.cfmIf anyone looked carefully at my last youtube of H bubbles under a microscope, you will notice there is a very high level of H and O recombination back to water when the bubbles break and this is occurring with only two titanium metal points near each other. This says so much on the total process that guys should have been jumping up in the air. This was one small lab test done on the bench with no more then the energy from a FG and no ions added, only demineralized water from reverse osmosis.
From that video, we can quickly conclude that the recombination rate of water to H and O to water again is so high and continuous that it is no wonder that guys have to pump high amps into these cells to then produce whatever the cells will output as H.
There is no way a lone hydrogen atom can escape this. The hydrogen has to be harboured in those tiny bubbles containing millions of H atoms. H atoms are neutral so they can stay inside the bubble but they also have the unique ability to be anionic or cationic so if you leave one out there alone it will quickly find a complimentary ion and change over.
The problem with vertical cell plates as guys are doing all over the world now is that the H produced at the lowest point in the cell has to rise all the way up and out of the top. This means the chances of that actually happening are next to nil given all the havoc it would have to pass through in a bubble, being hit by millions of other bubbles that physically break them open and recombine back to water and those bubbles that do manage to exit from the top actually had a better chance of winning at the lottery.
So to overcome this unseen continuous recombination process, guys use these high amps and pump in juice to "overproduce" so that from that overkill, you can at least get something out of it and this is what we know and accept today as the H production levels we see and what guys are fighting against with more and more elaborate pulsing schemes. But Man, the H's are all corralled but now they have to travel the equivalent of what Salmon have to overcome to get to their spawning grounds. That is one treacherous route chock full of dangers. Break the bubble and those H atoms will immediately revert back to H2O so you have to do it all over again. It's like driving your manual shift car with the clutch half engaged at all times.
So for me, the problem is not how to pulse but how to produce the most efficient cell design possible. That is where the major advancement will be. If the cell is designed to take full consideration of what the H atom has to go through to leave the water solution intact, then the cells would never resemble what they do now.
Seems to me the H atom is crying out, "Make me and get me out of there quick and I will be your friend forever. But please, just make me once cause this back and forth is very tiring and energy consuming".
If I had a higher quality microscope, I am sure I could video even greater effects like to see how the H bubbles fill up. I imagine the process is like the sperm entering into the egg, there is a capillary action that let's H enter while maintaining the bubble exterior plus while growing with the H volume.
So based on all the above, what can guys do with their present vertical cells?
The following diagram will shown what I think will be an easy addition for producing H in the same wet cells that are used in water tanks. What is needed is to find the right diameter straws that can be cut and lowered into each cell spacing at let's say 1" from the bottom and then more levels in the same spacing at every inch going up to 1" from the top. This will force the gas to accumulate in the straw channels and by slightly slanting the channels (45 degrees or less) to favour one direction, most of the gas will exit the tank from one side. The channels will ensure the gas is no longer in direct contact with the plates as they accumulate and exit as fast as possible. By reducing the recombination, more of the gas will escape at first creation (debatable - more like the 100th recreation but better then the 1000th or 10000th recreation that may be going on) .
The tank water level will provide a certain head of pressure to hold the air channels inside the straw channels and will help moving the gas out of the channels. New water entering the plate spaces will have a little more turbulence since the air channel will create an oscillation between the water head and the slightly compressed gas and this will help create a certain vibration that will help to keep the plates free of sticky bubbles. Or, at the most I would see a small off center type vibration motor that could be used to keep the plates vibrating. The important thing is once the bubble is made, keep it away from the plates and in a rising formation.
Anyone with an existing system can try this with the least amount of cost and effort and the results should be relayed back to this thread.
wattsup
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Topic: HHO-the good ,the bad,and the ugly (Read 66763 times)
