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OverUnity Research > Electrical / Electronic Devices > Thane Heins Devices > Bi-toroid
2024-11-27, 10:28:57
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img  Allcanadian
Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #125 on: 2010-11-03, 21:38:58 »
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There are three questions that you can ask any rabid Tesla fanatic about that:  1)  Where do you get all of the power to pump into the tower?  Do you have 500 oil and coal and nuke electrical generating super-plants in the vicinity to supply power to the tower in the first place?  2) What about the fact that the vast majority of the power will not be picked up by the antennas?  What about efficiency?  3)  What about the environmental effects and do you think that people will want to live their lives permanently bathed in some form of strong EM radiation from the tower?

1) Hydro and wind power, do you know the average losses for modern transmission line systems, 50%, what a joke.

2) Why does a capacitive or inductive reactive system not dissipate all it's energy? What is the theoretical efficiency of a transformer which has no load on it's secondary antenna? if the earth is like a giant capacitor and energy is alternately stored there then where is the waste? You cannot say one capacitive reactive system cannot dissipate all its energy but another must, it is absurd, only the size of the system has changed. Quote:"Thus the discovery of these new properties of the atmosphere not only opened up the possibility of transmitting, without wires, energy in large amounts, but, what was still more significant, it afforded the certitude that energy could be transmitted in this manner economically. In this new system it matters little—in fact, almost nothing—whether the transmission is effected at a distance of a few miles or of a few thousand miles. "

3) What are the effects of living under high voltage power lines? The scientific community and utility companies tell us there are no dangers whatsoever so why would there be with Tesla's system? or do you believe there is some kind of conspiracy going on,lol.

Quote
The whole idea is completely and utterly ridiculous.  From what I gather Tesla wanted to use the tower for telecommunications purposes, not to power the world.

Quote
TRANSMISSION OF ELECTRICAL ENERGY TO ANY DISTANCE WITHOUT WIRES—NOW PRACTICABLE—THE BEST MEANS OF INCREASING THE FORCE ACCELERATING THE HUMAN MASS.

The most valuable observation made in the course of these investigations was the extraordinary behavior of the atmosphere toward electric impulses of excessive electromotive force.  The experiments showed that the air at the ordinary pressure became distinctly conducting, and this opened up the wonderful prospect of transmitting large amounts of electrical energy for industrial purposes to great distances without wires, a possibility which, up to that time, was thought of only as a scientific dream.  Further investigation revealed the important fact that the conductivity imparted to the air by these electrical impulses of many millions of volts increased very rapidly with the degree of rarefaction, so that air strata at very moderate altitudes, which are easily accessible, offer, to all experimental evidence, a perfect conducting path, better than a copper wire, for currents of this character.
http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1900-06-00.htm

Tesla stated that this would be a very efficient means to power boats, cars and----- airplanes, now what would be the consequences of an aiplane not having to carry any fuel? Just as NASA is now experimenting with powering rockets and aiplanes with infrared lasers from the ground, funny how the old becomes new and a good idea is a still good idea no matter what day and age we happen to live in. As usual Tesla was thinking decades ahead to the future where we would seem to be stuck in the past, Nikola Tesla --- " The present is theirs but the future is mine",LOL. As well I have to wonder what the boys from MIT are getting paid for their impracticle if not impossible wireless energy transfer technology? Where do you think the technology will be 50 years from now?, I will take a wild guess and say right where Tesla was 100 years ago, LOL.

Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  MileHigh
Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #126 on: 2010-11-03, 22:44:52 »
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Grumpy:

Quote
I used a 10kv pulser when I had my "explosion sounds".  They were deafening.  Like a rifle crack.  No flash and nothing moved - weird....

To me that sounds like the answer right there.  The high inrush of current caused the wires to move so quickly that they broke the sound barrier just like a whip cracking.  The wires moved but you couldn't see them, it was below your threshold of perception.

Ion:

For the Steven mark demos, I almost hate to ask but are we in the "same old boat?"  i.e.; Old video clips from the early Nineties, no one can make a working copy of the device, nobody has accurate schematics or specifications, etc, etc?  If there is nothing tangible to work on except for old video clips then it is certainly going to be hard to connect the dots.  I am indeed lukewarm on this subject area.  But between yourself and Poynt you should be able to go far if the desired information is available.

AC:

Quote
1) Hydro and wind power, do you know the average losses for modern transmission line systems, 50%, what a joke.

I really can't answer that question because you are not posing it properly.  High tension transmission lines do loose some energy and I have to assume that it is proportional to distance and other factors.  I seriously doubt it typically gets as high as 50% but I have never looked it up.

Quote
2) Why does a capacitive or inductive reactive system not dissipate all it's energy? What is the theoretical efficiency of a transformer which has no load on it's secondary antenna? if the earth is like a giant capacitor and energy is alternately stored there then where is the waste? You cannot say one capacitive reactive system cannot dissipate all its energy but another must, it is absurd, only the size of the system has changed. Quote:"Thus the discovery of these new properties of the atmosphere not only opened up the possibility of transmitting, without wires, energy in large amounts, but, what was still more significant, it afforded the certitude that energy could be transmitted in this manner economically. In this new system it matters little—in fact, almost nothing—whether the transmission is effected at a distance of a few miles or of a few thousand miles. "

I can't really comment on your questions, some of them seem to be rhetorical.  As far as the Tesla quote goes, I will have to say that he is dead wrong.  Tesla is not a God and he can make mistakes.  Also, like I mentioned in the past, in the late 19th century and early 20th century grandiose lies and distortions to promote something were normal.  Use your common sense.  When you broadcast power with an antenna that power is typically spread out in all directions and the power density falls of proportional to the cube of the distance.  There is no way that you can transmit power efficiently or economically this way.  If you want to believe that Tesla his some "special secret" then go ahead.  Plan B would be for you to take three Electromagnets courses and three Microwave courses and then see what you think of Tesla's grand scheme to broadcast power around the world.  Plus you are seemingly forgetting that that power has to come from somewhere first, like 500 power plants.

Quote
3) What are the effects of living under high voltage power lines? The scientific community and utility companies tell us there are no dangers whatsoever so why would there be with Tesla's system? or do you believe there is some kind of conspiracy going on,lol.

Power lines are given clearance for residential housing.  I am sure that you have seen this and I am sure you have heard your AM radio reception fail when you drove under a power line.

You quote a piece by Tesla written in 1900 about using the atmosphere to conduct electricity.  It's nonsense and unworkable AC.

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Where do you think the technology will be 50 years from now?, I will take a wild guess and say right where Tesla was 100 years ago, LOL.

Ha ha ha... I think that Tesla's work will be buried deeper and even more forgotten in 50 years than it is right now.  Tesla did some interesting and innovative stuff 100 years ago but technology has advanced and moved on AC.  The reason that so much of what Tesla was all about is nonexistent is that better technologies have come along to replace them.  A 486DX266 computer is a piece of junk.  You can't buy a tube TV anymore, nor can you buy a typewriter.  Nobody has an antenna on top of their roof to pick up power.

MileHigh
   
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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #127 on: 2010-11-03, 23:16:37 »

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Quote from: MileHigh on 2010-11-03, 22:44:52
Grumpy:

To me that sounds like the answer right there.  The high inrush of current caused the wires to move so quickly that they broke the sound barrier just like a whip cracking.  The wires moved but you couldn't see them, it was below your threshold of perception.



Perhaps, but I don't think that a wire moving, even so fast is breaks the sound barrier, could make a noise as loud as the one I heard.  the sound seemed to come from the trminals of the ignition transformer (spiral wire terminals, Franceformer).  The explosion sound was periodic but seemed to be at set intervals of several seconds.  I put a thick plate of polyethylene between the terminals and it stopped.

The transformer output was rectified through a bridge and powered a dual series spark gap, free-running.  I can't recall what the load was.

references to "proof" of an Aether are attached:
   
img  ion
Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #128 on: 2010-11-03, 23:19:12 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Quote from: MileHigh on 2010-11-03, 22:44:52

Ion:

For the Steven mark demos, I almost hate to ask but are we in the "same old boat?"  i.e.; Old video clips from the early Nineties, no one can make a working copy of the device, nobody has accurate schematics or specifications, etc, etc?  If there is nothing tangible to work on except for old video clips then it is certainly going to be hard to connect the dots.  I am indeed lukewarm on this subject area.  But between yourself and Poynt you should be able to go far if the desired information is available.


Yes MH, it does seem to be the same old boat, the videos are from the nineties, no one can make a working copy, we have tried to reverse engineer a schematic, it is very hard to connect the dots.

The curious thing that makes it a bit different is that the video's were never posted by Steven Mark, nor did he ever attempt to post them anywhere. In 1996 they were made by an amateur with a camera for documentation purposes only, possibly at Stevens request. They were never meant to be posted anywhere. Somehow in 2006, they were posted by a "Jeremy Gaul".

Only Lindsay Mannix and a handful of others ever knew of the videos in the late 90's.

The video's apparently made it to the internet for no known purpose in early 2006. The inventor was unavailable and whereabouts unknown. No one was building or selling plans etc. no money was to be made at this time, unlike Bedini.

There is a great deal of mystery surrounding this device. It is not possible know the extent of it all unless you are willing to spend an enormous amount of time doing extensive research. I don't think anyone except perhaps myself and less than a half dozen others have gone very deeply into this.

I can only say it is not the "same old story", but on the surface it may appear that way.

Considering your initial response am not inclined to engage in further debate.

So consider the issue dropped. If you want to consider that a "win", so be it.

Best Regards


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #129 on: 2010-11-03, 23:56:53 »

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Early on, when SM was talking quite a bit to Lindsay, SM stated that he could only discuss the device indirectly.  He also said that everything in the videos is absolutely true.

Hmm he clearly states the term "pulsed DC conversion"...attached is a compilation of letters between Lindsay and SM.  SM is quite genuine.

Funny how looking at the references to the "kick", it now sounds like the same thing Harold Aspden was talking about in his concentric capacitor, a little tiny rotation of the aether.
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #130 on: 2010-11-04, 05:04:28 »
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I really can't answer that question because you are not posing it properly.  High tension transmission lines do loose some energy and I have to assume that it is proportional to distance and other factors.  I seriously doubt it typically gets as high as 50% but I have never looked it up.
The best Cogeneration plants(gas turbines and waste heat boilers) typically run at near 50% efficiency in the real world, now let's see we lost 50% to generate it, we lost 50% when we moved it, and we probably lost another 40% at the consumer end, now tell me about this wonderfully advanced world of technology you live in because as an engineer I can tell you there is little truely advanced about it.

Quote
Ha ha ha... I think that Tesla's work will be buried deeper and even more forgotten in 50 years than it is right now.  Tesla did some interesting and innovative stuff 100 years ago but technology has advanced and moved on AC.  The reason that so much of what Tesla was all about is nonexistent is that better technologies have come along to replace them.  A 486DX266 computer is a piece of junk.  You can't buy a tube TV anymore, nor can you buy a typewriter.  Nobody has an antenna on top of their roof to pick up power.

Unfortunately technology has not advanced and moved on milehigh and Tesla's work could hardly be forgotten, what would we forget? would it be AC power generation, AC polyphase motors, teleautomation(remote control), florescent lighting, ignition coils etc...,lol, I do not think so. From my employment in the power generation sector I can tell you as fact that there has been very little advacement since Nikola Tesla's day, we are using the same AC motors and generators Telsa invented. As well if you knew anything of the wireless transmission of power you would know the MIT boys are going to be very rich because everyone hates being tied down by cords to recharge or power our devices and Tesla understood this a very long time ago. This is not MIT technology this is Tesla technology and it's going to be an absolutely massive market, I wonder before the MIT anouncement did you think this was impossible? did you tell everyone that there was no way it could be done? It's funny how some people are always saying everything is impossible while others are actually doing the impossible and I applaud the boys at MIT for their effort regardless of who invented this technology first.

As well you are always trying to bash Tesla which is odd considering what he accomplished within his lifetime, he was a great engineer. This is why I stand up for Tesla, because he was a great engineer and he had a vision of the future in which technology would make our lives easier and sustainable, the key word here is "sustainable". What is your vision of the future and what have you done about it? Ah, that is a question nobody likes to hear is it? We can talk all we want but it was engineers like Tesla and many others who built the foundation for the technology which dominates our lives. If you ever want to understand which technologies are really important just ask yourself -- which would effect my life the most? What would happen if someone turned that big old AC power switch off? well we would all be in the dark wouldn't we. Personally I find your attitude towards Tesla offensive, every engineer who has ever accomplished anything of value should find it offensive in my opinion.
Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #131 on: 2010-11-04, 10:26:50 »
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Hi,
Regarding losses in HV overhead power lines, the only one that stands out is in Russia. The length of one feed was so long that the frequency had to be reduced to 30HZ. The rest still get power where its needed and until the ou code is cracked this will probably remain so. Agreed there is more than Tesla deserving merit but its the press at best reporting these things.  The best thing is to agree that ALL pioneers need a praise no matter what.
Steve.
   
img  MileHigh
Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #132 on: 2010-11-04, 15:56:13 »
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Unfortunately I have to make another special posting for AC because of his ad hominem attacks against me.

AC said:

Quote
As well if you knew anything of the wireless transmission of power.

AC, I have told you repeatedly to stop this.  These are ad hominem attacks where you do your best just to skate just below the line before the administrators will take notice and discipline you.

You have even admitted publicly that you want to go after me.  You have no clue if I do or I don't know about the wireless transmission of power.  You are bullshitting in your prejudgment of me and it's time for this nonsense to stop.  I have already asked you to stop this both privately and publicly.

Are you hearing me loud and clear?  If I wanted to go after you, in your postings there has been more than enough low-hanging fruit that if I wanted to I could have made mincemeat out of you, but I didn't.

You had better get this message loud and clear AC.  I will not tolerate ad hominem attacks from you because you have a chip on your shoulder about me.  Grow up.

I may as well cover a related issue in this posting.  The issue is that people don't have the right to claim that they are engineers if they aren't any more than they can claim that they are medical doctors if they aren't.

AC said:

Quote
now tell me about this wonderfully advanced world of technology you live in because as an engineer I can tell you there is little truely advanced about it.

Quote
From my employment in the power generation sector

Quote
do you know the average losses for modern transmission line systems, 50%, what a joke.

This is from the fourth link from the Google search "high voltage transmission line efficiency", an Asea Brown Boveri document:

Quote
The transmission and distribution or “T&D” system, then, includes everything between a generation plant
and an end-use site.  Along the way, some of the energy supplied by the generator is lost due to the
resistance of the wires and equipment that the electricity passes through.  Most of this energy is converted
to heat.  Just how much energy is taken up as losses in the T&D system depends greatly on the physical
characteristics of the system in question as well as how it is operated.  Generally speaking, T&D losses
between 6% and 8% are considered normal.
It is possible to calculate what this means in dollar terms by looking at the difference between the amount of
electric energy generated and the amount actually sold at the retail level.  According to data from the Energy
Information Administration, net generation in the US came to over 3.9 billion megawatt hours (MWh) in 2005
while retail power sales during that year were about 3.6 billion MWh.  T&D losses amounted to 239 million
MWh, or 6.1% of net generation.  Multiplying
that number by the national average retail price
of electricity for 2005, we can estimate those
losses came at a cost to the US economy of
just under $19.5 billion.

AC, based on reading the technical points in your postings over several months on this forum in my opinion you are not an engineer.  You claim that you are an engineer in the power generation sector and yet you don't even know what typical transmission line losses are.  You claimed that an inductor has very little relationship to a capacitor when no electrical engineer would ever state that.  You nearly had a heart attack the time we discussed negative resistance and it was obvious you were completely out of your realm.  I have challenged you to back up at least a dozen of your strange and unusual technical statements and you have never come back to back up your claims.  You simply remained mute.  When you stated that there were many flaws in EE theory I listed about 20 electrical engineering concepts to see if you would comment and you remained mute.  I have to assume that the S-plane means nothing to you and you have never worked with differential and integral equations, which are the mathematical backbone for understanding how electrical circuits work.  You are no engineer and don't try to claim that you are an engineer.

MileHigh
« Last Edit: 2010-11-04, 16:51:25 by MileHigh »
   
img  MileHigh
Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #133 on: 2010-11-04, 16:35:46 »
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Well, back to the regular thread...

Grumpy:

Perhaps the explosions had something to do with the ionization of the air by the high voltages you were working with?  A very rapid ionization of the tube of air around the wire caused it to heat up and expand and thus create a sound pressure wave?  Just a guess I can't speculate more than that.

Thanks for the aether docs I will try to read them soon.

Ion:

Thanks for outlining the Steven Mark story.  Thanks also for not pursuing this with me.  I took a peek but quickly realized that it's not something for me, which I had previously stated.  There is always the distinct possibility that this is all a half-baked hoax or half-baked scam that was never intended to be followed through on.  Then somehow the tapes got onto the Internet and the whole thing has taken on a life of its own.  Good luck in trying to find the real answer.

AC:

As far as Tesla goes, it was Michael Faraday that discovered magnetic induction, and AC power generation is simply the application of the principles of magnetic induction.  Certainly Tesla deserves full credit for developing the systems to apply what Faraday discovered and turn it into a real world application.  

The simple truth is that Tesla is now just a footnote in the history of technology.  When you study electromagnetics and power systems his name never gets mentioned.  You have to step outside of the bubble of the free energy forums and look at how Tesla is viewed and where he finds his place in the realm of electrical engineering.  In that real world he is forgotten.  Faraday and Maxwell and others laid the foundations for modern electrical engineering.  People that developed theorems like Fourier and Laplace are much better known than Tesla because they developed intellectual concepts of their own.  From what I gather Tesla was a great at applying and developing systems based on existing concepts but he did not produce his own intellectual ideas.  There is no "Tesla theorem" or "Tesla law" that we refer to.  He may have been great at visualizing "disruptive discharges" in his mind but I don't think that he could have put the differential equations that govern those "disruptive discharges" down on paper.  It's somewhat akin to Edison being one of the greatest inventors of all time but at the same time he could not understand why AC power distribution was superior to DC power distribution.  Edison had his limits just like Tesla has his limits.  I believe that both worked in a trial and error fashion most of the time.

You say that Tesla developed "teleautomation" and to a typical free energy experimenter it sounds magical and wondrous.  Chances are that was just a form of pulse-width modulation.  Tesla's name is not attached to PWM and it's the simplest and most basic way to encode and decode an analog signal.

For the MIT resonant energy transmission system, Tesla's name may be attached to it but so what?  Tesla played with resonance, but it doesn't mean that he "invented" resonance, it was always there.  You can't credit Tesla for the existence of LC resonant oscillators.  The MIT project owes nothing to Tesla and the technology has been around for 150 years.  It has been used in the modern world way before the MIT project came along.  They are simply trying to standardize the system so everybody uses it.  The link I saw was from 2007 and it's three years later and I haven't heard about any mainstream laptops using this charging system.

I am not a Tesla fanboy and in the real world he is relatively unknown.  A lot of the esoteric stuff that he worked on were mere curiosities with no practical applications.  Tesla coils are used to wow people in outdoor concerts where they can look at the electric discharges and listen to the musical notes they can produce.  None of the esoteric stuff will ever have a practical application.

MileHigh
   
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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #134 on: 2010-11-04, 17:12:15 »

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MH

Why are you hanging out on the OU sites if your mind is already made up that OU is not possible?
   
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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #135 on: 2010-11-04, 18:25:34 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-11-04, 17:12:15
MH

Why are you hanging out on the OU sites if your mind is already made up that OU is not possible?

Grumpy:

About three years ago I typed "free energy" into the YouTube search engine and to my surprise discovered the world of free energy, from amateur experimenter right through to sophisticated con artist.  It's fun to see what's going on and poke around.  Sometimes I challenge con artists and that's satisfying.  It can be fun to try to educate people also, which I have had limited success with because of my not-so-great teaching skills and an audience that sometimes is not too receptive.

The most fun is when something gets high-profile and creates a lot of buzz.  It's been a while since that's happened for me.

It's also healthy to have a countering viewpoint on a free energy web site.  It's also healthy to have voices that remind experimenters what they are looking for even if it sometimes amounts to hand-holding.  Probably 80% of the YouTube clips that claim free energy don't even measure power out vs. power in.  Almost nobody states that so I do.  Sometimes you pick up some interesting links on the forums also.

If someone demonstrates an actual free energy device the world would change.  Common sense and the laws of thermodynamics say that is not possible.  If I ever see a clip that looks like the real thing I will say so.

MileHigh
   
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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #136 on: 2010-11-04, 18:35:25 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-11-04, 17:12:15
MH

Why are you hanging out on the OU sites if your mind is already made up that OU is not possible?



In reality MH is right Grumpy, Overunity implied that the energy is from nowhere , a closed loop that don't take anything from the outside as energy source and its not at all what people are trying to do . Name it Vaccuum, Aether , Orgone , etc its only words to describe a source, if i say "My device use Aether energy to run" people usually associate that with "OU" but if you only replace 1 words , there no OU anymore like "My device use Sun energy to run". If you put thing in perspective you clearly see there always a source, whatever the name you put on it.If we go further , can be a special magnet who provide all the energy in a special way or a extraction of the magnetic field of the earth or a special Quantum State Transition or whatever.

Moray device use a antenna, bedini device use magnet, Beardon device use magnet , Magnacoaster device use magnet, Ed device used magnet, etc etc. all this people who made claim use something who can generate electricity from a source, maybe in a weird way and not fully understood but the key point is all have a energy source, how the energy source is tapped , that's what is not fully understood but don't forget that the science is in constant evolution , what is true today will maybe be wrong in 50 years , thing is often more complex that what they appear at first even if the math can apply correctly in the current and the past science the mechanic can be different.

The goal still remain , the goal is to produce unlimited amount of clean and cheap energy.

Best Regards,
IceStorm
   
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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #137 on: 2010-11-04, 21:13:38 »
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@milehigh
I am really not sure how to respond to that last post in reference to myself as in my opinion it would seem to imply serious psychological issues you may want to consider addressing in the near future.

Quote
As far as Tesla goes, it was Michael Faraday that discovered magnetic induction, and AC power generation is simply the application of the principles of magnetic induction.  Certainly Tesla deserves full credit for developing the systems to apply what Faraday discovered and turn it into a real world application.  
In my opinion the real world application of technology which actually helps people in a measurable way is much more important than any other consideration.

Quote
It's somewhat akin to Edison being one of the greatest inventors of all time but at the same time he could not understand why AC power distribution was superior to DC power distribution.  Edison had his limits just like Tesla has his limits.  I believe that both worked in a trial and error fashion most of the time.
In my opinion Edison was what he was, an american businessman who stole more technology than he every created and popularized it to make a profit, such is the american way. If you study Edisons history from non-american sources you would find he was considered little more than a showman that was hyped by the american media.

Quote
You say that Tesla developed "teleautomation" and to a typical free energy experimenter it sounds magical and wondrous.  Chances are that was just a form of pulse-width modulation.  Tesla's name is not attached to PWM and it's the simplest and most basic way to encode and decode an analog signal.
No, teleautomation is what tesla called it in his patent and I noted it for reference, please stop slandering free energy experimenters I find it offensive.

Quote
For the MIT resonant energy transmission system, Tesla's name may be attached to it but so what?
It is called prior art as Tesla has numerous patents on "wireless power transfer" technology and if the MIT technology infringes on these patents then any claims should be denied, that is why.

Quote
I am not a Tesla fanboy and in the real world he is relatively unknown.  A lot of the esoteric stuff that he worked on were mere curiosities with no practical applications.  Tesla coils are used to wow people in outdoor concerts where they can look at the electric discharges and listen to the musical notes they can produce.  None of the esoteric stuff will ever have a practical application.
That is your opinion however I find your continual marginalizing of Teslas work as well as that of others, your personal attacks on persons who mention FE inventors and your condescending attitude towards the FE community offensive.
I hope you understand this message load and clear milehigh.
Regards
AC
« Last Edit: 2010-11-04, 21:39:48 by allcanadian »


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #138 on: 2010-11-04, 21:26:34 »
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It's turtles all the way down
99.99% of all the Overunity devices on the internet forums and youtube, googlevideo etc, such as: (names removed because someone found it offensive) etc etc are bogus non working  devices used with intent to separate the uninitiated from their money by selling plans kits DVD's etc or to attract investor money

 Once again, some of these people are part of the FREE ENERGY CIRCUS, they hawk their wares at "symposiums" where you can buy their books DVD's etc. Nowhere can you purchase from them a legitimate device that will power your home, just a promise that if you would build it right it MIGHT give you some energy output, (but usually not more than the energy input). If you had not had the chance to attend one of these I urge you to go to one, in order to get the "big picture"

The smart persons and their hard earned cash will stay far away from such pseudoscience hucksters.

And the wise will be very careful not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater"

I have nothing against the true garage tinkerer, researcher, or whatever you would call someone who has an idea, pursues it and who earnestly reports his data and makes careful measurements and does not delude himself in an effort to get his moment in the youtube spotlight.

Which will be the subject of my next rant: The Psychology of the Free Energy Movement
« Last Edit: 2010-11-04, 22:04:39 by ION »


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #139 on: 2010-11-04, 21:32:27 »
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@Ion
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99.99% of all the Overunity devices on the internet forums and youtube, googlevideo etc, such as: Heinz, Bearden, Bedini, Stiffler, Magnacoaster, Ainslie, Lindemann etc etc are bogus non working  devices used with intent to separate the uninitiated from their money by selling plans kits DVD's etc or to attract investor money
If you could kindly show me your proof of your claims in regards to each individual case of the inventor and/or technology I would be glad to review it, as well as proof or justification as to the accuracy of this figure -- 99.99%.
Personally I find this slanderous unjustified attitude towards the FE community offensive and if you have real proof of any sort please post it.
Regards
AC


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #140 on: 2010-11-04, 21:37:13 »

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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #141 on: 2010-11-04, 21:38:12 »

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
@IS,
Well put.

@all,
Regardless of the name or source the devices do not run down either. Ed stated the flux is always flowing. We can use that stream whether we cut it with a wire or break the connection of the field and let it collapse on a wire. Whoa! Different motions, same effect. Now what is even more TPU specific is let the field reconnect on many wires or don't move the wires but move the field.
Pretty simple...

Another example is Hutchison moves the field and the eclipse points over matter. He also changes the angle of the eclipse plane inside of matter. When these align you get a steel fork in a block of aluminum. And when the alignment disperses we are left with a melding/welding. Hmmm.

If the viewer does not take into account the field interaction then it all looks like magic or bullshit. Special smoke, probably...

Plz splain me dis? I have noticed that many arguments never take into account field / matter alignment. Y dis? Is this the key point not taught in status quo box? I refer the reader to the picture of the nuclear detonation deivice on the first page of the Spherics document. Phased and angular. It is the Hutchison type process but the tramsnitters are specially placed and driven. Hmmmm, again. Well if this process doesn't work then why all the brewhaha over detonation? What if the detoantion can be controlled from an event to a process.


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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #142 on: 2010-11-04, 21:39:12 »
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AC:

If you had some class you would apologize and say that you were going to refrain from attacking me.  That takes character AC, and you should show some.

Quote
please stop slandering free energy experimenters I find it offensive.

That's a joke.  I sometimes make a generic comments not aimed at anyone specific. You are using that as an excuse to attack me.  I am telling you to stop right now.  If you want to argue the specific point I am making, then bring it on AC.

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I find your continual marginalizing of Teslas work as well as that of others, your personal attacks on persons who mention FE inventors and your condescending attitude towards the FE community offensive.

Tough shit for you and I don't make personal attacks towards people in this forum.  If I make tough statements about people outside of this forum it's because in my opinion they are true.  If you want to debate the veracity of the statements then go ahead.  I will express myself without you chasing after me.

Sorry that your feelings about Tesla are hurt but that's the way it is.

MileHigh
   
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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #143 on: 2010-11-04, 21:48:27 »
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@milehigh
Milehigh please stop your personal attacks against myself and your slanderous unjustified comments in regards to FE technologies and their inventors. It is one thing to state an opinion and quite another to maliciously attack persons and their credibility without facts of any kind, again do you understand me loud and clear milehigh.
AC


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #144 on: 2010-11-04, 21:50:03 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Quote from: allcanadian on 2010-11-04, 21:32:27
@IonIf you could kindly show me your proof of your claims in regards to each individual case of the inventor and/or technology I would be glad to review it, as well as proof or justification as to the accuracy of this figure -- 99.99%.
Personally I find this slanderous unjustified attitude towards the FE community offensive and if you have real proof of any sort please post it.
Regards
AC

Show me your double pulse inductor circuit first LOL......no just kidding I'm not really that interested in anything you have.

The proof is that everyone is still searching or the game would be over and we would all be off the mains. The fact that you are here at this site is proof enough.

There it is, posted per your request,  end of story.

No need for further research if it has been accomplished, just manufacturing perfection. Tool up the machines boys!


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #145 on: 2010-11-04, 22:04:54 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
MH, AC.

Look fellas, let's focus on the facts. Debate but refrain from putting each other down.

MH, I would ask that you refrain from telling AC he is not an engineer (unless you know for a fact), and AC I would ask that you refrain from putting MH down. If you don't agree, ok, you don't agree. Accept that and move on. Just be respectable and focus on the technical.

You guys are hardly what I would call "attacking" each other. I think it's more a case of folks becoming sensitive and/or taking things personally. Take a step back, and even take a break from the forum for a few days. This can lead to a fresh perspective on things, otherwise it is so easy to get caught up in the fray and let things get out of control (I know, I've been there). If things continue out of control, a short "break" can be arranged ;)

.99


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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #146 on: 2010-11-04, 23:04:39 »
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You guys are hardly what I would call "attacking" each other. I think it's more a case of folks becoming sensitive and/or taking things personally. Take a step back, and even take a break from the forum for a few days. This can lead to a fresh perspective on things, otherwise it is so easy to get caught up in the fray and let things get out of control (I know, I've been there). If things continue out of control, a short "break" can be arranged
I agree, I was instigating this and I have no problem admitting this to anyone but I honestly do find it offensive when I hear people claim something is a hoax or cannot work as a fact when they have no real proof. We speak of proof in many cases but we never apply this proof to our own opinions as such my issue is not always between right or wrong but how we present our opinions. If we speak of others with the same respect we would expect from others then I am sure we can all get along, this works both ways.
Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #147 on: 2010-11-04, 23:32:12 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
AC,

I know MH can be adamant at times that FE research is futile, but by the same token, for every MH out there, there are hundreds making grandiose claims, and most often without credible proof. To boot, these folks rarely have a vague clue about what they are working with.

I have a good understanding of electronics and electrical circuits, and what I find offensive, is when I am told by one of these folks that ostensibly, I have no clue what I am talking about.

I don't always agree with MH, and sometimes he may come across in a manner that offends some (I probably do too  :-[), but I am pretty sure that MH means no harm to anyone, and that he means well, as I do.

It's a two-way road. Yes, perhaps MH jumps the gun at times claiming that something is bogus, but the same goes for most folks making these grandiose claims. They too usually show no credible proof of their claim.

I agree, the presentation carries at least 50% of the weight. Presentation is an art, and I am often lacking in this area myself, but I am trying to improve. Just know beforehand (presentation score good OR bad), and I think I speak for MH here also, that all intentions are good.

Cheers,
.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  MileHigh
Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #148 on: 2010-11-05, 03:42:15 »
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As long as anyone wants to debate the issues with me I am fine.  But when things are slipped into sentences like "never accomplished anything in your life" or an implicit "you are clueless about subject 'X'" it's not acceptable to me and it should never be acceptable to anyone on this forum.

With respect to video clips or postings promoting an alleged free energy device, we can't forget that the burden of proof falls with the person making the proposition.  Both the presenter and the viewers should be cognizant of this.  I normally assume that they don't have what they claim and on the other hand there are others that are accepting of nearly all claims on pure faith without any evidence.  So if a debate ensues on the technical merits or lack thereof for the claim that's all good.

I have helped countless people to understand what they are doing because this used to be my profession and it can be fun to do that.  We all know that there are also con artists that are out there looking to steal people's money.  Calling them out with logical arguments is a service to everyone.  There are also people out there that are deluded and/or their understanding and education is lacking.  Trying to help them understand is a good thing to do.  How many times have we all seen people state that magnets in and of themselves are a source of energy?  Again, you are free to debate this with me if you disagree.

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Re: Bi-toroid « Reply #149 on: 2010-11-05, 04:16:54 »

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MH

Is there anything that you believe in that can not be proven?

God?  Big Bang? Creation?  Conspiracies?  Aliens?  Bigfoot?
   
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