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OverUnity Research > General - Free Energy Related > Most Promising FE Tech > electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply
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img  kampen72
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #325 on: 2015-05-05, 16:42:49 »
Group: Guest
Thanks for your compliments and warning note.

Yes, I do realize and aware of the danger of this and take all possible safety measures;
the Electrolyser tank is covered embedded with a 3 mm thickness galvanised steel and all testing is done outside in free air up to 50 meters from building away.
The gas-separator/bubbler is made of ceramic material and is high-pressure resistant.
The bubbler is only for better visualizing the gas outcome.
For backflash safety I am using 2 pcs. 1mu filters mounted on the side wall (color blue)

See below pictures:
inside view of the cell-plates
Mains input power supply 220VAC/50Hz, because of the long extension cable (up to 50 meter) the voltage drops to 200V
Electrolyser in running mode power consumption is 10 Amp.

Greetings, Alex
   
img  TinMan
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #326 on: 2015-05-05, 17:22:05 »

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Buy me some coffee
Quote from: kampen72 on 2015-05-05, 16:42:49
Thanks for your compliments and warning note.

Yes, I do realize and aware of the danger of this and take all possible safety measures;
the Electrolyse tank is covered embedded with a 3 mm thickness galvanised steel and all testing is done outside in free air up to 50 meters from building away.
The separator/bubblier is made of ceramic material and is pressure resistant.
The bubblier is only for better visualizing the gas outcome.
For backflash safety I am using 2 PCs. 1mu filters mounted on the side wall (color blue)

See below pictures:
inside view of the sailplanes
Mains input power supply 220VAC/50Hz, because of the long extension cable (up to 50 meter) the voltage drops to 200V
Electrolyse in running mode power consumption is 10 Amp.

Greetings, Alex
So assuming your power factor is 1(which it is probably close to ),you are using 2kW.
All we need now is a flow rate to work out the MMW. O0


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
img  Les Banki
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #327 on: 2015-05-06, 10:04:32 »
Group: Guest
Alex,

One more complement from me for your work!
But I must say that you have gone heavily “over-board” in your “safety” measures!

There is NO NEED to go extremes like placing the electrolyser 50 meters outside!
(5 to 10 meters would be more than enough!)

Besides, by placing a tight fitting protective steel cover over the electrolyser (like you have done)   your electrolyser will NOT suffer any damage or cause injury to yourself or others in case of 'back fires'!

As for measuring the gas output, may I suggest that you make your own device, for several reasons.
To my knowledge, there is not a single commercial “flow meter” made (or calibrated) for Hydroxy!
Also, the price of most flow meters are rather prohibitive!

With your mechanical skills it will be 'a piece of cake' to make one.

To give you (and others who read this) ideas of how to make one, I have attached a couple of old photos to show two different ways but using the same principle of operation.

The small one (the very first one I made) has a capacity of only 0.25L while the LARGE one is about 2.5L.

You will need to make a LARGE one since you can expect around 20 L/minute with a power input of 2kW, provided your electrolyser was made & conditioned correctly!
(Yes, it is well above “Faraday”!) 

If you need more info, I could take additional photos, showing more details.

One more thing: 
You need to fit a mechanical pressure relief valve to your electrolyser.
(preferably an adjustable type)

Cheers,
Les Banki
   
img  kampen72
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #328 on: 2015-05-07, 18:58:50 »
Group: Guest
Dear Les,

Good to hear from you again and thanks for the compliment, appreciate this very much.

For measuring the gas output:
I have already ordered a commercial "gas flow-meter" calibrated for Hydroxy gas from a Swiss company ABB.
They are specialized in small laboratory and also Industrial gas flow meters for Helium, Nitrogen, Hydrogen and other gases.
Expected delivery next week.

I noticed that Hydrogen is not Hydroxy and they told me that they have calibrated and sold already several flow-meters special for Hydroxy-gas so I am confident that this will be accurate for my application and purpose.

About mechanical pressure relief valve to your electrolyser:
Les, good advise from you again and until now I do not have installed one but I do realize the importance of this device.

I am not familiar with pressure relief valves, so far I have only found for water (see picture below 313) and oil as medium used in solar and central heating systems but these types have all high pressure settings range 3 up to 6 bar and I think that this is too high for the electrolyser tank.

Please can You advise indicate the minimum/maximum pressure setting for the electrolyser tank and recommend a supplyer?

Looking forward to your reply.
Greetings, Alex
   
img  Les Banki
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #329 on: 2015-05-11, 04:58:46 »
Group: Guest
Alex,

Perhaps I should have made it clear from the beginning that even though I address some posts to you, it applies to ALL readers here!

That is my way of up-dating everyone at the same time.
Otherwise, I would receive a large number of emails (and phone calls) with all kinds of questions about practical details which are just common sense!

Take for example the need for a pressure relief valve.
It is a MUST because IF the pressure control electronics fails to turn off gas production, pressure WILL build up to dangerous levels until something “gives”! 
(like electrolyser cracking – fuel injector damage due to over-pressure, etc!)

I would also like to comment on gas volume measurement.

Let's face it, not everyone can afford an expensive 'flow meter' which is really only needed
ONCE (unless experimenting a LOT with different types of electrolysers).

That is why I suggested a DIY type which anyone can make, for a fraction of the price of a commercial flow meter!

Further, most (if not all) readers who have “checked-out” my WFGP ECU design would have discovered by now that it also incorporates a TIMER – switching the electrolyser power supply ON/OFF.
It can also be used for REPEATED gas volume measurements.

OK.

You have asked for minimum/maximum pressures for the electrolyser.
While I have already answered these questions before, here it is all again:

Gas pressure is SOLELY determined by the injector used.
In this case – Poliauto-JET21 – recommended working pressure approx. 10 PSI.
So, THAT is the MAXIMUM pressure.
Clearly, there is NO minimum pressure since the working pressure is SET to 10 PSI and only varies a fraction of a PSI. (which is set by 'Hysteresis' on the pressure regulating module)

Since the JET21 is a large capacity injector, the injected gas volume can be reduced either by lowering gas pressure or reducing its opening time - or both!

These are general guides only as generator sizes vary by a very large margin!

You have also asked if I could recommend pressure relief valve types and suppliers.
Again, there is a hell of a selection of those “out there”!
However, we need the type(s) made for gas (air), NOT liquid (water).

I am posting two eBay links here, one is for adjustable pressure relief valve only, the other is for adjustable pressure relief valve + filter!  (both with pressure gauge!)
Check them out!
Both seem SUPERB value for the money!

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AR2000-Air-Control-Compressor-Pressure-Gauge-Relief-Regulating-Regulator-Valve-/190776079718

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Black-Pneumatic-Air-Source-Treatment-Filter-Regulator-w-Pressure-Gauge-AFR-2000-/311355532440?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item487e3c6498

Cheers,
Les Banki
   
img  kampen72
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #330 on: 2015-05-13, 22:57:07 »
Group: Guest
@ Les,
thank you for your advise and explanation in detail.

@ All,
Yesterday I have done some testing and measuring the gas-flow output with my electrolyser cell and I found out that the gas production/output to the bubbler is very unstabel so I must have a gas-regulator installed (as recommended by Les) to control and regulate the pressure build up in the tank.
Next step is to order this device and also installing a safety relief valve to avoid overpressure.
See enclosed video-clip from this testing.

Greetings, Alex
   
img  Les Banki
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #331 on: 2015-05-14, 04:34:26 »
Group: Guest
Alex,

Once again, no offence but you must understand certain things before you can continue!

First of all, as long as the current draw and supply voltage to your electrolyser are STEADY
(which they are according to your short video clip), gas production is also STEADY!

However, you are NOT using the 'flow meter' correctly!
You have clearly connected it directly to your “bubbler” and thus it tries to follow the bursts of gas
from the “bubbler”!

You need to understand that a 'flow meter' of this type should be connected between a “calm” reservoir of gas and the outlet.

Had you made your own gas volume measuring device as I suggested, you would NOT have this problem! It would have shown you a very steady gas flow indeed!!
Period!

Further, note once again that in my WFGP design, gas pressure is SET and regulated by the pressure regulator module.

Note also that as long as there is unrestricted gas flow out of the system, there can be NO over-pressure!
That is logical and should be OBVIOUS!

The bottom line is that a pressure relief valve is only a safety device and fitting it will NOT fix your present problem!

Whatever you buy, I suggest you test it with a compressor before fitting it to the electrolyser.
Make sure the compressor pressure is set LOWER than the maximum rating of the relief valve.
Then, turn the adjusting knob to the opening pressure you require.
(You can read the opening pressure on its pressure gauge.)

Cheers,
Les Banki
   
img  kampen72
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #332 on: 2015-05-14, 20:56:59 »
Group: Guest

Dear Les,

Thank you again for your advise, explanation and for helping.

Best part of it after reading your explanation now I do understand what I have done wrong.
As you know I am always willing to learn.

Special thanks for your patience and valuable time.
I appreciate this very much.

Greetings, Alex
   
img  Les Banki
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #333 on: 2015-05-16, 10:53:39 »
Group: Guest
Alex,

One more observation, if you don't mind.

In your reply #325 you have stated that your electrolyser was running on 200V, using 10A.
(photo showing both meters)
But in your short video, the current meter is showing only 7A.
What has changed??

This leads me to another point:
Do you realize that the self-regulating electrolyser design is VERY sensitive to supply voltage change?
You may (or may not) recall my explanations, not only with words but also numbers, in my “Running series cell electrolyzers on 50/60 Hz AC power.doc”
I have also published the old “Cell V-I graph.gif” to show what is happening.

So, it is important to keep the supply voltage constant.
That is usually not a problem with generators due to their voltage regulation.

However, you should avoid heavy voltage drops with too long extension leads like you have used.
This is ONLY important during start-up when using an external power supply.

Current consumption dropping from 10A to 7A is VERY significant and could mean starting problems (not having enough gas).

Once the generator has started and supplies steady power to its own electrolyser, there are no further problems.

Another important issue – often overlooked -  is electrolyte concentration.

Most people under-estimate its importance.
Electrical conductivity of the electrolyte is related to its efficiency and to a large extent to its operating temperature.
Largely (but not completely) it follows Ohm's Law.

Conductivity is the inverse of resistance and the lower the resistance of the electrolyte,
the less heat is developed in the electrolyser.

I am also attaching two other documents:
One is about KOH concentration and how it is measured, the other is a chart, showing the relationship between concentration and conductivity.

As you will see, conductivity peaks at about 25% (by weight) and drops thereafter.
You should aim at around 20% KOH concentration.

Cheers,
Les Banki
   
img  Matt Watts
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #334 on: 2015-05-17, 00:13:57 »
Group: Guest
Les, from your experience is KOH preferable to NaOH?

The last dry cell I worked with, I used NaOH.  Initially my concentration was way too high--because I used recommendations based on KOH.

Not sure which is easier to obtain where you are.  Here, food grade quality Lye is dirt cheap.


Also Alex,

Les maybe can confirm this, but in my experience, do all your mixing/dilution in separate container.  Never, ever mix in your cell or reservoir.  If you get the wrong concentration, throw it all out, rinse your system and try again.  Once you hit the sweet spot, immediately label your mixing container and keep it nearby your system.  When I say label, put all information you have on there, even where your distilled water came from.  Treat it just like a prize recipe.
   
img  muDped
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #335 on: 2015-05-17, 01:16:53 »

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Good points Matt.  Also remember that the strongly Alkaline
solutions (NaOH or KOH) will have a very strong affinity for
Carbon Dioxide in the air.  If left in open containers or exposed
to the air they will in short time become contaminated with
either Sodium Carbonate or Potassium Carbonate.  This
contamination, if it becomes too great, will reduce their
efficiency as electrolytes for the production of Hydrogen and
Oxygen.


---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
img  Mookie
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #336 on: 2015-05-17, 13:29:20 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: Matt Watts on 2015-05-17, 05:49:33
And just a little something for the record...


10 LpM Hydroxy added to the airstream of 6.7 liter diesel is a complete waste of time.  Been there, got the T-shirt.



Matt,

You spent at least 10 years at this. I have the same T-shirt.
Could you kindly share the general nature of your testing and some of your personal observations/conclusions?

...No need to get too technical if you don't wish.

Mookie
   
img  Mookie
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #337 on: 2015-05-17, 22:58:46 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: Matt Watts on 2015-05-17, 19:48:40

Mookie, sent you a PM.

...thank you for that.
   
img  kampen72
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #338 on: 2015-05-18, 18:57:04 »
Group: Guest
@ Les, see below my reply to your observation:

One more observation, if you don't mind.
In your reply #325 you have stated that your electrolyser was running on 200V, using 10A.
(photo showing both meters)
But in your short video, the current meter is showing only 7A.
What has changed??


I did not change anything on my electrolyser.
Yes at my first trial it was running on 200V and using 10A, run several tests until I made the video.

Probably is my electrolyte contaminated (as suggested by MudPed)
My electrolyser-tank was left open without the top covered for many days.
I will make a new and fresh electrolyte and keep it closed for storage.

I have found and ordered an Industrial Safety pressure valve/switch.
Se below the specs:
Adjustable action pressure / rising：0.5 to 1.5bar
Factory set / Action contact, pressure rising ：＞0.8bar
Factory set/ Contact reset, pressure falling： ≤0.8bar
Electrical Load: Max.16A 220VAC
Adjustable pressure switch
See enclosed image:

Greetings, Alex
« Last Edit: 2015-05-20, 16:24:55 by kampen72 »
   
img  Les Banki
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #339 on: 2015-05-19, 07:13:18 »
Group: Guest
Alex,

The timely comments by 'mudped' brought back memories which I almost forgot!
(After all, it was 20 years ago.)
Thank you, 'muDped'!

In my early days of research and experimentation I too experienced CO2 contamination in a BIG way!
I was operating a large, 120 cell unit which I designed for the welder.
It was open all the time for the purpose of visual testing and igniting bubbles on the top!
At the time, I did not understand WHY I needed to add more and more KOH almost every day to maintain the current draw and gas production.
It was a mystery to me.

Even Joe (yes, of the “Joe Cell” 'fame'!) who was visiting and staying with me for 3 ½ days, made comments that some of the other experimenters he knew were putting “more and more 'caustic' in the solution” (his words)!!

Much later, I discovered that the reason – CO2  contamination -  was already well known and documented, being particularly troublesome in Fuel Cell operation!

So, Alex, CO2  contamination was/is the reason your current dropped from 10A to 7A!

Matt,

Over the years, most of the serious HHO researchers/experimenters have concluded that KOH is the BEST catalyst!
Period.
However, NaOH is not far behind.

(I have always used KOH.  Bought 25kg all those years ago!)

As for 'distilled water', I don't bother.

Perhaps a little bit of advise for the readers here:

I filter the tap water which is deliberately (and “legally”!!) contaminated with more than 50 chemicals, (including Fluoride)

How good is my filter?

Well, my professional pure water tester (PWT - HI98308 – by Hanna Instruments, which over-ranges at 100µS), measures 0.2 – 0.4µS with a new filter, while my distiller consistently reads 1.00!
Usually, it takes several weeks before the filter reads the same as the distiller.

What is the filter media?

Mixed bed resin. 

It REMOVES EVERYTHING from the water!

(I have started buying the resin and fill my refillable cartridges.  A hell of a lot cheaper than buying the cartridges!)

Mind you, I also have 6500 litres of rain water!  (haven't started using it, yet)

Cheers,
Les Banki
   
img  kampen72
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #340 on: 2015-05-19, 20:17:12 »
Group: Guest
@ All,

I am pleased to inform you:
today I made a new batch of fresh electrolyte using Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) and testrun my Electrolyser.
I am using a 10% solution ‘by weight’ is 100 grams of NaOH in 900 cc of distilledwater.

GOOD NEWS:
Now it is working PERFECT, even producing stable gas-output and consuming 10A at 230V (see enclosed pictures)
I could not resist to ignite the gas, fascinating  how it burns, also a very stable flame.
I have it also on video, unfortunatly too big to upload it here but I will compress/convert it to avi and show it asap.

For your information:
I will be out for my annual holiday, leaving on 21 may till 14 June 2015 with limited or no access to internet.

Greetings, Alex

PS: I can confirm that the CO2 contamination was indeed the reason of current drop and poor unstabel gasproduction.
Thanks for pointing me to this.
« Last Edit: 2015-05-20, 19:08:35 by kampen72 »
   
img  kampen72
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #341 on: 2015-05-20, 15:34:18 »
Group: Guest

@ All,

Here is the video-clip of my running Electrolyser.
I am using a 10% solution ‘by weight’ is 100 grams of NaOH in 900 cc of distilled water.
GOOD NEWS:
Now it is working PERFECT, even producing stable gas-output and consuming 10A at 230V (see pictures previous message)
I could not resist to ignite the gas, fascinating  how it burns, also a very stable flame.

Will continue this project after my holidays.
Greetings, Alex
   
img  Les Banki
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #342 on: 2015-05-25, 06:35:43 »
Group: Guest
All,

The subject of this post is still the safety pressure relief valve for the electrolyser.

Since my last post on that subject, I have obtained various types of valves for testing, in order to lay this subject to rest and to eliminate further arguments.

For safety (and simplicity) all tests were done with compressed air.

I have concluded that the “expert” advice given by several 'sources' on Internet, claiming that pressure regulator valves and pressure relief valves are the same, doing the same thing but have different names, are 'inter-changeable', etc., is absolute BS, baloney!

Rest assured, NONE of the pressure regulator valves actually discharge air from the tank!
Period.
End of story.

It is simple and pure logic that in order to lower pressure in a tank, some air (or gas) MUST be discharged.
No ifs, no buts.

So much for the “expert” advise.....!

The only valve which will discharge air (or gas) from a container (tank) is the humble, simple
(and cheap!) pressure RELIEF valve.

Thus, the two pressure regulator links I published earlier are only useful if you wish to alter the pressure of the gas going to your generator engine but will do NOTHING to REDUCE the pressure in your electrolyser if it happens to be (for whatever reason) too high!

The one with the air filter could be used for just that, filter the gas – by removing moisture from it!
However, keep in mind that the supplied pressure gauge needle will hardly move with just 10 Psi
(6.9 kPa) on a dial of 1 MPa!

I have attached a picture of the pressure relief valve I have ordered.  (Pack of 5)
[I picked the 0.2 MPa pressure (about 29 Psi)]

I already have 2 pieces of 4 kg/cm2 (about 58 Psi) which is too high!

By the way, this type (1/4” BSP) are all the same physical size, irrespective of the pressure rating!

Cheers,
Les Banki
   
img  muDped
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #343 on: 2015-05-25, 21:43:20 »

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Thanks Les.

It is very important to understand the distinction
between Pressure Regulation and Pressure Relief.



---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
img  evolvingape
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #344 on: 2015-05-26, 16:14:40 »

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Quote from: Les Banki on 2015-05-25, 06:35:43
All,

The subject of this post is still the safety pressure relief valve for the electrolyser.

Since my last post on that subject, I have obtained various types of valves for testing, in order to lay this subject to rest and to eliminate further arguments.

For safety (and simplicity) all tests were done with compressed air.

I have concluded that the “expert” advice given by several 'sources' on Internet, claiming that pressure regulator valves and pressure relief valves are the same, doing the same thing but have different names, are 'inter-changeable', etc., is absolute BS, baloney!

Rest assured, NONE of the pressure regulator valves actually discharge air from the tank!
Period.
End of story.

It is simple and pure logic that in order to lower pressure in a tank, some air (or gas) MUST be discharged.
No ifs, no buts.

So much for the “expert” advise.....!

The only valve which will discharge air (or gas) from a container (tank) is the humble, simple
(and cheap!) pressure RELIEF valve.

Thus, the two pressure regulator links I published earlier are only useful if you wish to alter the pressure of the gas going to your generator engine but will do NOTHING to REDUCE the pressure in your electrolyser if it happens to be (for whatever reason) too high!

The one with the air filter could be used for just that, filter the gas – by removing moisture from it!
However, keep in mind that the supplied pressure gauge needle will hardly move with just 10 Psi
(6.9 kPa) on a dial of 1 MPa!

I have attached a picture of the pressure relief valve I have ordered.  (Pack of 5)
[I picked the 0.2 MPa pressure (about 29 Psi)]

I already have 2 pieces of 4 kg/cm2 (about 58 Psi) which is too high!

By the way, this type (1/4” BSP) are all the same physical size, irrespective of the pressure rating!

Cheers,
Les Banki

Hi Les,

The information you have posted on pressure relief vs pressure regulator valves is partly true.

An off the shelf pressure regulator valve will not act as a pressure relief valve for an electrolyser because you quite rightly state that it does not dump high pressure gas to low pressure atmosphere. I do not use these retail pressure regulator valves.

The pressure relief valve you have ordered 5off of does act as a safety valve but flow rate is slow, that is why I use it as an hydraulic PRV in the hhop gen 2+ system (picture attached below). This valve is adjustable, when you receive yours remove the metal information disc sleeved around the stem below the ring pull and you will see an insert that sets the spring pressure. You will need a special tool to adjust the pressure, if your valve is a similar design to mine (which it appears to be) then you will need a hex allen key with a hollow bore (to fit over the stem) to wind the insert in and out to set triggering pressure. I believe all these valves are the same and the pressure differences simply depend on how compressed the spring is (set at factory in seconds). This valve will also act as a pressure regulator if the valve vent is enclosed from atmosphere in a housing, it will regulate pressure down and a basic rule of thumb is [Input pressure - spring pressure = Output pressure] however surface area on the back of the valve (inside second chamber) must also be taken into account..

Quote from: muDped on 2015-05-25, 21:43:20
Thanks Les.

It is very important to understand the distinction
between Pressure Regulation and Pressure Relief.

I have moved well beyond these simple off the shelf valves and probably have done more work with hho and different types of PRV's than anyone I know about. For years I have been building and using snapvalve governers in hho systems and I am able to eject (or inject) hho fuel with stability and reduce chamber pressure very significantly in less than a second. If you would like to see proof of this I give muDped permission to provide you with the link via PM to the private video demonstration of this technology (I extend this invitation to Kampen72 also). I only ask that you keep this valuable information to yourself for the present time as there is a group of bottomfeeders in this community collaborating currently to steal my work, claim it as their own, and charge thousands of $ for a shit version of my technology. I am sure you can appreciate the need for discretion, I gave my work away for free to help mankind not to lock it up in a patent and charge poor people through the nose for it!



---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
img  Room3327
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #345 on: 2015-05-26, 18:11:09 »

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Quote from: evolvingape on 2015-05-26, 16:14:40
I only ask that you keep this valuable information to yourself for the present time as there is a group of bottomfeeders in this community collaborating currently to steal my work, claim it as their own, and charge thousands of $ for a shit version of my technology. I am sure you can appreciate the need for discretion, I gave my work away for free to help mankind not to lock it up in a patent and charge poor people through the nose for it!



Are you talking about members on this forum?  I hope not, I have been here almost from the beginning and I don't see it. Most here give their work away for free, and their knowledge. I have yet to see any real bottom feeders here and I certainly don't see anyone making money off any of this!  Making blanket statements like this only makes you look bad.  Being you made it public already WHO can patent it and make a fortune off it?  And you say you are giving your work away for FREE, don't sound free to me. If you are giving it away freely then you must expect someone out there is going to try and make money off it.  I don't care if someone goes into bussiness with the things I have given freely here and if they can make some money off it more power to them. That is giving freely!


---------------------------
"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   
img  evolvingape
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #346 on: 2015-05-26, 20:53:44 »

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Quote from: Room3327 on 2015-05-26, 18:11:09
Are you talking about members on this forum?  I hope not, I have been here almost from the beginning and I don't see it. Most here give their work away for free, and their knowledge. I have yet to see any real bottom feeders here and I certainly don't see anyone making money off any of this!  Making blanket statements like this only makes you look bad.  Being you made it public already WHO can patent it and make a fortune off it?  And you say you are giving your work away for FREE, don't sound free to me. If you are giving it away freely then you must expect someone out there is going to try and make money off it.  I don't care if someone goes into bussiness with the things I have given freely here and if they can make some money off it more power to them. That is giving freely!

I was referring to the open source energy research community in general and not specifically any members at OUR. I appreciate my statement was ambiguous which was unintentional on my part, thanks for pointing it out, I am happy to clear up that confusion.

I do expect people to try and steal my work, what I don't expect is the community to stay silent and allow it to happen. What kind of example does it set to young researchers if they see members of the community blatantly lying about the origins of the technology they are presenting as their own and attempting to patent and charge a lot of money for? Do you think such behaviour will encourage people to give technology they develop away open source.. I think not!

Anyway this discussion is off topic. I do not want to disrupt Les's thread and was simply making Les an offer to view a private demonstration on technology he is not aware of that may help him. Ok.


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
img  Les Banki
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #347 on: 2015-05-29, 08:18:17 »
Group: Guest
evolvingape,

Your post also contains an offer to which I feel I should respond to.

I DECLINE your offer for two reasons:
Number one:
No offence but I find your offer UNETHICAL and I REFUSE to even consider ANY form of NDA, which your offer clearly is!

Number two:
I don't want your technology, basically because there is NO NEED for it in my system.

Should you wish to understand this last point, I paste part of an email I sent to selected individuals a few months ago, which will illustrate my views:

Hi guys,

Here we go again!

While meaning no disrespect to anyone reading this, I am just in the mood for doing some "rubbing in"!

It never cease to amaze me just how much unnecessary trouble some people are willing to go to, while a simple solution is 'staring' them in their faces!

I am referring to my WFGP design which has been in public domain for close to a year now!

Anyone who has taken the time to STUDY it would/should know that I don't need to go to great complexity in order to separate the gases, I don't need water injection, ultrasonic transducers,
I don't need plasma ignition, I don't need "Deuterium grade HHO" and I don't need high frequency pulsing or any other "fancy" stuff either!

In short:
A simple, high efficiency multi-cell electrolyser - coupled with the correct engine management process - does the job.
Period.

So, WHAT is the problem with most people?
In a single word - DISBELIEF!
Yes, DISBELIEF!

All those who ridicule and attempt to discredit my set-up have one thing in common.
NONE of them have tried it because they "know" that it cannot work!
Yea, right....! Go figure!

By the way, feel free to forward this to anyone who might be interested.

After all, everyone is after free energy....  Several kilowatts of it.

I rest my case....

Cheers,
Les Banki

OK.
Since you have stated that you have worked many years with HHO, I feel like asking you a blunt, (perhaps rude) question:
Do you have a looped system, a self-running engine (generator) running 100% on water which has EXCESS energy to power loads?
Just yes or no, please.

If your answer is NO, then, what is so important or “special” about your technology (which everyone is trying to steal from you!!!) and thus requires all that 'confidentiality'??

Room3327 got it right.

His attitude (at least on this issue) is identical to mine.

Yours, however, well.....I leave it to the individual readers to decide....!

Yes, my WFGP is considered by many to be too complicated.
So be it.
And yes, if there is any “sophistication” (if you like to call it that) in the WFGP, it is in my design details – not only in the electronics but the electrolyser as well.

As for your comments about “off-the-shelf” PRVs, perhaps I should comment on that, too.
After all, there is nothing 'fancy' about them, nor is there any need for anything fancy.
It is simply a safety device and the entire set-up works without one!
Things like “flow rate” for such a safety valve is irrelevant in this kind of application.

When the “cracking” pressure for such a valve is reached, it will “leak” enough to prevent further rise in pressure.
Period.

If a sudden, abrupt (avalanche) type of relief is needed, there are non-resettable rupture membranes.  (for example)

And so on....

You have correctly pointed out that the type of PRV I ordered is adjustable (within the limit of that particular design).

However, the ones I already have do not need special tools to adjust.
Indeed, they are very simple and easy adjustment. 

Cheers,
Les Banki
   
img  evolvingape
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #348 on: 2015-05-29, 11:05:02 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2502
Everyman decries immorality
Hi Les,

No need to be rude!

You don't want an automatic re-settable avalanche valve (amongst other things) then that's your choice.

"Do you have a looped system, a self-running engine (generator) running 100% on water which has EXCESS energy to power loads?
Just yes or no, please."

No Les, I don't have one of those.. NOBODY DOES! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!! You have amply demonstrated that you have no understanding of the Laws of Thermodynamics at all.. hho to run an engine and produce excess power is impossible as it is a closed thermodynamic system COP<1.

I am not going to tell you what you want to know, you don't deserve it.


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
img  Les Banki
Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #349 on: 2015-05-30, 07:35:55 »
Group: Guest
evolvingape,

I thank you for your honest answer AND for your additional comments, making clear that you are indeed a thoroughly programmed individual, regurgitating the official lines of the “establishment”.

While I can't speak for other readers but to me it is clear that your “knowledge” about HHO and using water as fuel, is in fact nothing more than your BELIEFS and OPINIONS, both FALSE!

My guess is that you haven't even bothered to look at my WFGP design files.

Have a nice day and I wish you luck in your endeavours.

Cheers,
Les Banki
   
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