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Author Topic: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply  (Read 304488 times)
Group: Guest
preparing these large amount of cells up to (140 pcs) with crosspattern sandpaper on both side is an extremely labor intensive process.

Simply put:  thinking or believing the above is a FALLACY.

Yes, you have to handle the plates one at the time but each needs only 8 'strokes' (4 on each side) and these take only a few seconds!
Besides, there is NO NEED to “cross-hatch” more than about 120mm from the bottom edge.

But the bottom line is, however:  you don't destroy the plates!

Further, perhaps you should also think about the physical action of sanding (horizontal movement across the plate's surface), versus VERTICAL blasting (irrespective of media used) and the difference in the outcome.

You could examine the “sanded” surface versus the “blasted” surface under a microscope and see the difference!

Cheers,
Les Banki
   
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@ Propellanttech
after slowly preheating the distorted SS-316L cell plates and coling-down to room temp. as suggested it remains still distorted.
Even after cold rolling it many times then it starts to bend and can not be used. Almost impossible to slide them in the slots, to much tension.

To avoid further delay I have decided to stop this blasting procedure for now and use the conventional hand sanding procedure as adviced by Les.
Next step is to clean and condition the cell-plates with 10% NaOH as Electrolyte.

Greetings, Alex
   
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@ Propellanttech
after slowly preheating the distorted SS-316L cell plates and coling-down to room temp. as suggested it remains still distorted.
Even after cold rolling it many times then it starts to bend and can not be used. Almost impossible to slide them in the slots, to much tension.

To avoid further delay I have decided to stop this blasting procedure for now and use the conventional hand sanding procedure as adviced by Les.
Next step is to clean and condition the cell-plates with 10% NaOH as Electrolyte.

Greetings, Alex

Alex,
 
Yeah...I was unsure of stainless due to the nickel in it. I was hoping the heat would make it relax, but evidently it didn't. I guess we now know that heating to relax stainless won't work.  

James
   

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Kampen72,

Quite often our attempts at creative innovation fail
to produce the desired result.  While disappointing,
it never-the-less serves as a valuable lesson for all
who are watching how you go about your project.

You and Les together are 'writing the book' on how
to successfully overcome techniques which tend to
become obstacles to progress.  I very much appreciate
how this discussion is bearing fruit.  Thanks for all that
you do.


---------------------------
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@ All,
thanks for all your support.
Just out of curiosity now I have the microscopic view of the SS-316L surface after and before treatment.
It gives a good visual impression. See below:
   
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As I recall from the work Ken Shoulders did with Charge Clusters, you are after tiny pyramids on the metal's surface.
http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue61/chargeclusters.html

If this does in fact promote the creation of EVO's, it should improve the quality of gas production considerably.
   

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Buy me a beer
As I recall from the work Ken Shoulders did with Charge Clusters, you are after tiny pyramids on the metal's surface.
http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue61/chargeclusters.html

If this does in fact promote the creation of EVO's, it should improve the quality of gas production considerably.

Electron charge clusters can be created in various ways, one of the most simplest is SMD.

What I presented on SMD seemed that nobody really understood the implications or what was happening.

I do not have a supper lab, I have to farm out if I want SEM etc and can cost lots of money. Below are pic's of 316 SS after reaction, note the holes and note the high temperature colouring, input power was only 24watts of which most was recuperated and used in hydrogen production.

Please note the upper part of the electrode which is perfectly smooth "out of electrolyte", reaction time for this was only a few minutes.

I am still working on this when time and money permits, there is huge possibilities for all this.

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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This is how the surface of the SS-316L plate looks after glas-pearl blasting.
Now we can clearly see the difference, see my message # 304 above.
Glas-pearl blasting the cell plates is NOT recommended.

See below:
   
Group: Guest
Updated:
This is how the surface of the SS-316L plate looks after glas-pearl blasting.
Now we can clearly see the difference, see my message # 304 above.
Glas-pearl blasting the cell plates is NOT recommended.

See below: Anode and Cathode Glas-pearl Blasting



 
 
   
Group: Guest
@ All,

Next step is ordering and assembling components on the PCB´s for this project.

The problem is that the BOM's for every board does not have complete information about the components.
I need detailed parameters: like main value, wattage, tolerance, case/footprint.
It would be better if we have also part number from RS-Components, Farnell, Digikey, Mouse or other supplier.

Anyway - I will ask some experienced persons here if they can try to resolve and complete the BOM's together with the pictures and schematics available.
See enclosed BOM listing.

Greetings, Alex
« Last Edit: 2015-02-16, 20:40:34 by kampen72 »
   
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Continue assembling the Electrolyser tank.

Now I have installed 2 levelsensors, indicating minimum (red-led) and maximum level (blue-led) of electrolyte.
Also a manometer mounted in the side wall to monitor temperature with pressure.

See below picture(s):
   
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Alex,

This time, I am sorry to be a “kill-joy”.
I am not writing this just for fun or to embarrass you but to point out that you are on the WRONG TRACK on a couple of subjects!
Perhaps this post will also prevent others to make the same mistakes.

There are two 'issues'.

One is the level sensors you have fitted and the second is your self-created “problem” with the parts lists for the printed circuit boards, DESPITE my detailed explanations in private emails to you.

First, the level sensors.
Perhaps you could enlighten the readers here by explaining HOW those floaters you have fitted are going to assist the refill of 138 (or whatever number) of cells EVENLY, especially since you have made NO provision in your electrolyser for a two-stage refill!

WHERE (which part of the electrolyser) are those 'floaters' going to float in??

While I can understand wanting a thermometer but why a mechanical pressure gauge when there is an electronic pressure gauge & regulator is already part of the design?


As for the parts list “problem”, I see that after I turned down your ridiculous request, you are now asking others to do it!
You have clearly NOT heeded my advise to get someone with basic knowledge of electronic components to assist your parts ordering or perhaps even assemble the boards for you.

Once again I wish to point out that you are the only one who has this “problem”.

I am actually tempted to post our entire email exchange about this “problem” of your creation so everyone can see how absurd it is!!

Cheers,
Les Banki
   
Group: Guest
Good to hear from you again Les,

Let me explain:
For me now is only important to have/making the Electrolyser as easy as possible and safe as possible.
I have succeed in making the Electrolyser cell and for now I do NOT need the autorefill function.
Having a led indication for the minimum level and maximum level of electrolyte with the pressure and temperature under control is perfect for now to monitor the cell.
A working Electrolyser cell producing the required HydrOxygas for testing running a small engine would be fine even if it's only running for one hour I would be more than happy and later I can add all the advanced auto-refill options.

As you know I am not an expert in electronics, more talented in hardware so I am facing the problem in ordering the right components.
I have asked You about this to make a more complete BOM list with partnumbers and unfortunately you rejected.

Have contacted 3 different component suppliers with the BOM-listing as supplied by You and even these experts were unable to select and deliver the required parts, caused of incomplete information.
Then I have compiled a Excel-sheet with all the missing information and asked for help on the forum.

See below a sample of a STANDARD BOM listing.
Note: this is a SAMPLE listing, not the WaterFuel BOM-listing.

The WaterFuel BOM listing I have compiled for this project is in message # 309 Posted on: 2015-02-16, 20:13:31
I believe having a BOM completed with parts description and the partnumbers would be helpfull for ALL of us.

Now working on cleansing and Voltage conditioning the cell plates with NaOH.
Greetings, Alex
   

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Buy me some coffee
kampen has asked me if i can work out the parts list and find sources for the parts required.

First problem i have is that i am unable to open the protel schematic files as my version has expired.

Anyway here's the first parts list for the IRREC

The only part i have not been able to identify is a diode listed as 5404 but there is part of the partnumber missing so can someone look at the circuit to see if there is more to identify it.
« Last Edit: 2015-03-05, 20:37:47 by Peterae »
   
Group: Guest
Peter,

You don't need the Protel Schematic software to open my published circuit diagrams!
They are ALL in PDF format. 
(I never published them anywhere in their original Protel format because virtually nobody would be able to open them!)

As for diode D7 (5404), I ALWAYS omit the “1N...” in front of the numbers (for example: 4148, everyone knows what the '4148' diode is!) in both the circuit diagrams as well as the pcb silk screenings! 
D7, 1N5404, is an ordinary, 400V, 3A power diode used across the solenoid/pump motor winding to protect the driver MOSFETs.
OK?

By the way, for ALL readers here:
You will NOT find the circuit diagrams for the 'IR Receiver' or the 'IR Transmitter'!
Those circuits are combined under the name “leveldet.sch.pdf “.
The same goes for their circuit descriptions: “Re-fill control electronics circuit dscription.doc”.

Needless to say, those who have studied my WFGP design files would already know all that – and much more.

Peter, your post prompted me to publish my replies to Alex (kampen72) about his parts list “problem” and the reasons I flatly refused his request.

Quote:

Alex,

Sorry to be harsh and blunt but your request is totally unrealistic and downright ridiculous!

It is also a clear admission that you have virtually ZERO knowledge of electronic components (and I am NOT referring to electronics theory here!)

In my writings, I made a very clear WARNING to all those who intended to replicate: you need at least some BASIC knowledge of electronics, or, the assistance of someone who does have such knowledge.
Period.

IF I were about to almost literally 'spoon-feed' you (and others) with details like you requested, I would NOT have any bloody time left to do anything else!

To be more specific:
When a person who knows electronic components picks up an empty circuit board, he can instantly see what kind of components go where!
THAT is what the 'silk-screening' is for - a guide for assembly!

He would also know that ALL components are STANDARD, UNLESS specified otherwise on the circuit diagram and/or the circuit description for that particular circuit!

Further, he would/should also know that if the board is powered by, say, 12V, ALL capacitors (for example) would be no more than about 25V ratings.
Even the capacitor TYPE is indicated by its 'foot-print' (pattern)!
So are the resistors, diodes, transistors, ICs, etc.
And so on.  It is nothing more than simple common sense!

When you see "Pattern" on the parts lists, they will NOT mean anything to you (or the company you are trying to order from!), simply because they are component foot-prints (patterns) I created (within the Protel software) for my own design purposes!

The same goes for connectors (plugs/sockets).
They are NOT specified by manufacturers. 
Whatever brand fits the hole spacing (pin spacing) can be used.

However, since Altronics is my MAIN supplier of standard parts, if it is of any help, I suggest you download their catalogue.
(altronics.com.au)

As an example, you may have to order relays from Altronics (if all else fails). 
Catalogue no.:  S 4206A (on page 309)

Cheers,
Les Banki

Alex,

First of all, there was NO need for your explanations.  I knew all that already.

I repeat:  your approach to parts ordering is WRONG.
Get someone with at least some knowledge of electronics to assist you and let him read my previous reply/explanations and both of you will quickly find that there are no problems whatsoever!

I also repeat:  there is NO WAY I am going though your list of several hundred lines!

Further, your expectations of the people working for RS (or similar companies) shows that you have NOT understood what I wrote about component foot-prints (patterns) and how or why they are used!

Perhaps I should add that every designer has his/her own 'coding' methods - so don't expect 'outsiders' to know them!
(there is NO NEED for them to know - and they don't!)

I firmly believe that I have supplied more than enough information for replications but I feel that you are expecting TOO much from me!

Cheers,
Les Banki

Alex,

With all due respect - and for the last time - I keep telling you things and you are NOT paying attention but continue
to 'pester' me (and I am now sick of it!) with questions which NO-ONE ELSE asks!

That in itself should tell you something!

I will put my comments between yours - in red.

Cheers,
Les Banki

On 6/12/2014 05:13, A.C.H. Jansen wrote:
Dear Les,

I have a some component questions, need more specs. details, to order the correct type.
Can you please help me out.

AUTORPM0 PCB:
IC7 C-555 is this a CMOS NE555 or the regular NE555 version?

 I have specified that you need a "C" version which everyone knows stands for CMOS!

CDIMODU2 PCB:   What Voltage are these?
C-12 CA, B,C, 0.33u CAP20X10-2

Alex, again and again, anyone with even mediocre knowledge of electronics looking at the CDI circuit diagram
will see that capacitor C12 is 1uF and it is connected to the +300V line!!
Therefore, even "blind Freddy" can see that its voltage rating should be 400V or more! 
The circuit board itself also clearly indicates that you can use either a single
1uF capacitor OR 3 x 0.33uF (like I am using, simply because I have at least 2000 of them!)


C-10 CAP 11S630V

Look again, it states CAP11S630V

Res-10 990K  R21

Again, just look WHERE it is connected!?  To the +300 - 330V line.  So WHAT do you want to know!??
I don't think you have actually read the CDI circuit description or even looked at the diagram!
By the way, there is no such standard value as a 990K resistor.
You simply grab a handful of 1M resistors and select one which has an approx. value of 990k.
It is called "tolerance" (+/- 5%) and electronics people do this regularly!

Sorry, Alex, it is NOT my role here to teach regular electronics to absolute beginners!


TYN816 Thyristor SCR1

What is the problem???  A TYN816 is a TYN816!!   That is the part number!  OK?

TF1 = CFL transformer.    Can You supply these?

I have ALREADY supplied it.  It is on that round CFL driver board and you are supposed to transfer its components to the CDI board but again, you are NOT paying attention!!

Timer (Dick-Smith) from my place I can NOT order D&S does not ship to NL. Can You supply these?


These timers (as are most other things) are made in China. 
I used to buy them from another company here before Dick Smith.
Use your imagination and track down the supplier or manufacturer.
I simply REFUSE to waste my time to pack parcels for you, fill out custom declarations and running to the Post Office to send them to you!


Control Box Casing. Can You supply these?


Same answer as above, plus, have you actually downloaded the Altronics Catalogue as I suggested!??
(Both the control box and cabinet is supplied by Altronics.)

CONTRPAN PCB:     What type are these?
LCD-Meter  M-1
SW-DPDT Switch
SW-PB-SPDT

Again, all the above are supplied by Altronics.  Look through their Catalogue and you will find them!


For your information:
I have been abel to order almost all of the required components.
Noticed that:
VCA (IC3) must be the singel OPAMP Package.
Mosfet MPT-3055E must be with inn-built diode.

Again, you don't understand!  The MPT3055E already HAS a diode!  IF you use another type of MOSFET you need to make sure it has a built-in diode. 
Nowadays, most of them have.


C1 must meet local AC-Voltage and can NOT be Electrolytic.

You have some more reading to do!
With a self-regulating electrolyser, you don't need C1. 
(It is 'replaced' by a shorting link on the pcb.)
Period.



Looking forward to your reply.
Thanks in advance.
Alex


So, ALL readers, make of it what you will.....

Cheers,
Les Banki
   

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Buy me some coffee
Thanks Les, yes i should have guessed it was a 1N4504 it was the package used that threw me.
and thanks for the reference to the circuits.

I will try to help Alex as best as i can, maybe others will find the parts list handy as well.
   
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I have nothing but gratitude over here...
 O0
   

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Thanks Les,
I'm more of a Jaycar man myself . :)
   
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Hello all,

Did anyone gets success with this "nano pusle electrolysis" ?

I am solving one elctronical issue, what can be handy even at this project : How to sense level of saturation in ferrite core, with simple electronics ?

Thanks for any response at advance.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Hello all,

Did anyone gets success with this "nano pusle electrolysis" ?

I am solving one elctronical issue, what can be handy even at this project : How to sense level of saturation in ferrite core, with simple electronics ?

Thanks for any response at advance.

By sensing the voltage ramp in a current shunt resistor that is placed in series with the inductor, you can see the ferrite going into saturation by the sudden upturn at the end of the ramp, basically the ramp will change from a nice linear constant rate of rise of voltage to quick increase in the rate of rise as the onset of saturation occurs.

There are many simple ways to use the voltage information from the CSR to trigger a sharp cutoff of the driving semiconductor just before the onset of saturation. This all depends on the circuit topology and where the CSR is placed.

Regards, ION


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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ION, so why not substitute SITH with CSR sensing to break circuit. Of course higher voltage on primary will be need to achive fast charging time, but it should work same.
   
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Marshallin,

From your two brief posts here I detect that just like on the overunity Forum, you continue to cling to your same old ideas!

I dare say that you have either overlooked, OR deliberately ignored all my explanations on this subject, plus several variants of my proposed, experimental circuits.

After all, what I have published about the nano-pulse technology here was/is supposed to assist those who wish to experiment.

I have now gained the impression that you really don't understand the basic operating principle of the IES (Inductive Energy Storage), which is the “heart” of the nano-pulse power supply!

So, I will try to “break it down” for you.
The answer ION gave you is correct but it has already been done in my published design, albeit NOT for the purpose of detecting ferrite core saturation point!
You need to realize that it is highly unlikely that the ETD49 ferrite core in my design will go into saturation at the power levels intended, which is up to 250 – 350W.

Further, you need to understand that it is NOT advisable to increase the supply voltage above 12V!
With a 12V supply, you are already looking at fly-back pulse amplitude of around or above 1000V!!
If you were to increase the supply voltage, you would be looking at a tremendous increase in pulse amplitude to possibly several thousand volts!  OK?

The problem you will then face is to find a MOSFET capable of withstanding that voltage.

Also, your comment:  “Of course higher voltage on primary will be need to achive fast charging time....” is basically nonsense. 
You are trying to make a “problem” out of something which isn't!

Should you have a 'problem' with the above statement, try to find and download the document:
“Repetitive pulsed high voltage generation using inductive energy storage with static induction thyristor as opening switch” (http://www.doc88.com/p-194579522720.html)
and see just how fast the inductor “charges” to the required level!  (less than 5µs!)

(If you can't find it, try this: 
file:///C:/Users/Les/Desktop/E%20Appl%20Notes/Repetitive_pulsed_high_voltage_generation_using_inductive_en/index.html)

In the last version of my circuit, a MOSFET rated at 1500V/20A is used, together with two diodes rated at 1200V/30A.
In addition, the MOSFET driver (TC4420) is further protected by an 18V TVS diode.
(see attached “Nano-pulse power supply circuit description.doc”)

The circuit diagram and pcb layout files were attached to my post #260.

Cheers,
Les Banki
   
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@ All,

I have finished assembling and conditioning the plates of my Electrolyse Cell.
Now it's ready and running producing massive Hydroxygas, see below pictures.
Next step is to measure the amount of gas produced.
Will keep you informed.

Greetings, Alex
   

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Buy me a beer
Well done Alex, nice job you have made of that O0

Seems some very good gas production there.

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Well done Alex, nice job you have made of that O0

Seems some very good gas production there.

Yes Alex, very impressive.  Please be overly cautious with what you have--treat it just like Nitro Glycerin.  Those kind of flow rates are in no way, shape or form, a toy.
   
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