electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply

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Author Topic: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply (Read 304465 times)

Les Banki	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #100 on: 2014-09-12, 08:51:30 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Matt Watts on 2014-09-11, 19:56:24 Attached is the quote for the JET 21 injectors. Small price break if ordered in quantity. Approximately 50 Euros each, which seems quite reasonable, especially since it includes shipping. I'm not familiar with how to wire transfer funds as depicted in the quote, so if someone knows, please enlighten me. Matt & Chet, Since most people don' like dealing with Banks, I have an idea. Now that you have established contact with Poliauto, you could/should ask if they have a PayPal account. If not, you could suggest that they should consider getting one, due to the possibility of getting orders (small or large) from all over the world. That could be due to the fact that there are now several hundred people in possession of the WFGP files. As for the 'JET 21' Poliauto injector, there is one more thing I like to point out. In the JET range, Poliauto has 6 sizes. JET 21 is the largest one (capacity). I settled for 'JET 21' because if we don't need its full capacity (injected gas volume), we can REDUCE the volume by one of two means, or BOTH. One is to reduce injection time but the better one is to reduce gas PRESSURE! Cheers, Les Banki

Les Banki	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #101 on: 2014-09-12, 10:30:04 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Matt Watts on 2014-09-10, 18:59:41 Something that seriously concerns me is the fact this circuit must drive ONLY a single cell. Matt, No need to be concerned....! In fact, it will be smaller, lighter, cheaper and overall, easier and quicker to make! In the link below you can see one such idea....there are several pages, pictures and details. The shim (foil) can be a lot thinner. Further, note that the effective surface area will DOUBLE when the foils are rolled up. There can also be several other ways to make a similar unit. As for power, I don't think we need more than about 250-300W to run a generator which right now needs around 2kW. http://oupower.com/index.php?dir=_Other_Peoples_Projects/AntDavison/kettle%20c.2003 All who read this; please keep in mind that my ECU design can run, as is, ANY size SINGLE cylinder generator! You may need a larger electrolyser for a very large generator but the engine management section remains the same. Cheers, Les Banki

Chet K	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #102 on: 2014-09-12, 14:07:21 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Les I suppose the thing which we need to get working here is the Generator at 1% fuel ratio... The rest will fall right into place. Thx Chet

Grumage	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #103 on: 2014-09-12, 20:02:34 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Dear Chet. I thought you might like to see this ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwjTDXR31KA Brute force electrolysis !! Cheers Graham. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Chet K	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #104 on: 2014-09-12, 20:26:03 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Graham Congratulations !!!! Arc welder Electrolysis ...I thought I saw the lights dim a little while ago ,,, Flintstone ballast on the HHO "Storage manifold".. just doesn't get any better than this, I don't think I will stop smiling for the rest of the Day.... "When Men were Men ! " * I love that little beast you have running there , How many Liters do you think it used for that run ? Great stuff !! Thx Chet « Last Edit: 2014-09-12, 22:24:52 by Chet K »

Matt Watts	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #105 on: 2014-09-13, 00:14:24 »
Group: Guest	That's pretty neat there Graham! Now I have to ask, can you make it run on air? Okay, almost air?

Chet K	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #106 on: 2014-09-13, 10:53:13 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Odd as that sounds Matt [running on Air ] Running on "WATER" sounds crazier ... And Graham just ran an engine on Water. Absolutely loving this !! [Quite sure he is too] Chet

Centraflow	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #107 on: 2014-09-13, 12:41:03 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Nice little motor Graham. How are you injecting the HHO? is this motor basicly a 2stroke? regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Grumage	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #108 on: 2014-09-13, 20:13:25 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Quote from: Centraflow on 2014-09-13, 12:41:03 Nice little motor Graham. How are you injecting the HHO? is this motor basicly a 2stroke? regards Mike Dear Mike. Thanks for the compliment, yes we made some damn fine toys back then !! The engine employs a very early expansion only principle. Similar to that of Etienne Lenoir or Alexis De Bisschop. First quarter, induction second quarter ignition and expansion, final half exhaust. So yes, a very inefficient two stroke. The HHO was being admitted by a small poppet valve actuated by a tiny lobe on the sideshaft. Earlier on my son and I tried to run my Robinson "X" type Town Gas engine, but alas, Hot tube ignition and HHO do not mix very well........... I think the explosion was probably heard in the village a mile away !! I will try to put a sparkplug in for ear safety !! Cheers graham. ------------------------ electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply Bisschop.bmp (6075.05 kB, 1920x1080 - viewed 1798 times.) --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Peterae	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #109 on: 2014-09-14, 08:34:27 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	Hi Les I have opened the .pcb file, this is for the SITH, I can copy your layout and alter it for the FET circuit, i presume we want PCBs for the FET output stage because at the moment we are unable to acquire the SITH component. ------------------------ electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply Nano.jpg (124.68 kB, 774x348 - viewed 1485 times.)

Les Banki	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #110 on: 2014-09-14, 08:58:56 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Chet K on 2014-09-09, 20:59:50 RE : the huge disparity in fuel and Ambient air here ,... Chet, “RE : the huge disparity in fuel and Ambient air here, “ You seem to be fascinated with the AIR/FUEL ratio of 99:1. Why? I don't know if the above is your expression or someone else's but it doesn't matter. The only “huge” thing about it is that it is a *gross misconception* and if I don't “knock it on the head”, it is going to spread just like other misconceptions! No offense but it seems that some people have lost their ability of logical thinking and observation! Whoever thinks that a 99:1 ratio of AIR and FUEL (HydrOxy in this case) is a “huge disparity”, should do the following experiment: Get an ordinary, standard fuel injector for petrol (gasoline, for the folks in the US) and set up your equipment. You don't need petrol for this test, you can use water. Pressurize the water to about 40psi. (most injectors work in the range of 36-42psi range) Set your injector power supply pulse TIMING to 10ms. Direct the output of your injector into a closed container. Fire (activate) your injector 100 times. (your TOTAL injection time is 1 second.) Now remove your container and measure (either by volume or by weight) the water collected! Divide the result by 100 to get the volume (or weight) of ONE 'squirt'! Well, I am not going to spoil your 'fun' by giving you the result! However, just to “tease” you a little: do you think it will be 3.9cc, injected in just 10ms You can report back here with your result and also tell us if you still think a 99:1 ratio is such a “huge disparity”!?!? Oh, alright, I know that not a single one of you will ever do the above experiment so here is an easy to understand explanation: Question: HOW MUCH water did you electrolyze to get 3.9cc HydrOxy? Answer: Divide 3.9 by 2000 = 0.00195cc!, or 1.95 mm³, or 0.04 drop, or 1/25 of a drop!!! Well, then, when you inject 0.00195cc of water into the 420cc cavity (cylinder) of your generator, what is the Air/Fuel ratio? Try 215384:1 THAT you could call a HUGE “disparity”!! Some of you might think I am “splitting hairs” here but hey, this is happening in everyday life with every fuel injected engine all around the world! The numbers may be a bit different with liquid fuels but the basic principle is the same! (Sure, there is a BIG difference between liquid and gaseous fuels but that is not the point here.) Actually, you might be surprised to know that depending on the QUALITY of the HydrOxy (its mono-atomic contents of H and O), it might be LESS than 1% required! Cheers, Les Banki

Les Banki	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #111 on: 2014-09-14, 10:33:44 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2014-09-14, 08:34:27 Hi Les I have opened the .pcb file, this is for the SITH, I can copy your layout and alter it for the FET circuit, i presume we want PCBs for the FET output stage because at the moment we are unable to acquire the SITH component. Hi Peter, I am pleased that you added the .pcb and .sch extensions to the software and also that you were able to open my pcb file. But reading your brief comments a couple of times, I am not sure you fully understood (no offense) my explanations about the circuit. So just to make sure, I will repeat it here, briefly. My circuit and its pcb layout is a driver for the IES unit and does not need further changes. However, it DOES NOT include neither the SIThy, nor a SIThy substitute (MOSFET)! THAT is an extra component which needs to be added (together with its supporting parts), once the successful substitution has been made. Thus, once again, the circuit does not need "altering". It only needs "additions". For more details, please re-read my description. Cheers, Les Banki

Peterae	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #112 on: 2014-09-14, 12:46:12 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	My apologies Les, lack of time made me draw my own incorrect conclusion. Shall i send this out and get some boards produced. We can tag on the required experimental bits. Peter

Matt Watts	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #113 on: 2014-09-14, 18:10:17 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Les Banki on 2014-09-14, 08:58:56 Whoever thinks that a 99:1 ratio of AIR and FUEL (HydrOxy in this case) is a “huge disparity”, should do the following experiment: ... Les, I'd like to propose an alternate experiment that may make it clear. Code: [Select] `Start out with an spark igniter probe that can be inserted into a balloon. Setup two sources: One of them 10 psi air; the other 10 psi HydrOxy. Inject for one second the 10 psi HydrOxy via critical orifice into the balloon. Using the same critical orifice, inject for 100 seconds the 10 psi air. Strike the igniter.` If it is not a requirement for these mixed gases to be under compression (higher than atmospheric) , the balloon should rupture. Yes, no, maybe so...?

Les Banki	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #114 on: 2014-09-15, 11:19:45 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2014-09-14, 12:46:12 My apologies Les, lack of time made me draw my own incorrect conclusion. Shall i send this out and get some boards produced. We can tag on the required experimental bits. Peter Peter, I have an idea which may satisfy just about everyone - at least for the time being. The idea is simply to have TWO boards. Since my original circuit is already working as an IES driver, it can be used AS IS! (I have made some modifications and it is now ready for use.) Then, put the components which needs to be tried (and perhaps the transformer as well), on a second pcb for experimenting/butchering! I could make another circuit diagram as well, showing the separation of the two sections. If you wish, I could attach the new (modified) layout to my next post. What do you think? Cheers, Les Banki

Grumage	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #115 on: 2014-09-15, 11:45:37 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Dear Les. You mentioned the transformer in your latest post. Have I missed something? I have not seen any reference to construction/ratio ! Please forgive me if I have missed it? On a different note, my son and I have tried to run a larger 4 stroke engine, 3 inch bore 4 inch stroke fitted with a Platinum tipped sparkplug. All we got was a catastrophic backfire !! Safety equipment is a definite MUST !! My ears are still ringing. Cheers Graham. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Peterae	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #116 on: 2014-09-15, 19:00:36 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	Hi Les Sure sounds good to me. The PCB manufacturer will probably ask for the Gerber and Drill files etc, are you familiar enough with Protel to pass those on to me, either that or i will try just sending them the .PCB file and see if they can work it out themselves. The next question is who want a PCB so i can work out how many to get made up, the postage & PCB will be free to members here, so start putting your orders in guys so i can get an idea If you don't want to divulge personal addresses, i don't mind that either as long as i have an address to ship too Les you can have as many as you want, just give me an idea, you may have your own friends to give some too. Regards Peter

Grumage	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #117 on: 2014-09-15, 20:44:15 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Quote from: Peterae on 2014-09-15, 19:00:36 Hi Les Sure sounds good to me. The PCB manufacturer will probably ask for the Gerber and Drill files etc, are you familiar enough with Protel to pass those on to me, either that or i will try just sending them the .PCB file and see if they can work it out themselves. The next question is who want a PCB so i can work out how many to get made up, the postage & PCB will be free to members here, so start putting your orders in guys so i can get an idea If you don't want to divulge personal addresses, i don't mind that either as long as i have an address to ship too Les you can have as many as you want, just give me an idea, you may have your own friends to give some too. Regards Peter Dear Peter. Please count me in. My WW2 Gen set should be arriving within the next couple of weeks. Looking forward to creating some extra energy over this coming winter!! Cheers Graham. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Peterae	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #118 on: 2014-09-15, 21:57:22 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	No problem Grumage, i will send you one when i get them Cheers Peter

Les Banki	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #119 on: 2014-09-16, 09:46:48 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2014-09-15, 19:00:36 Hi Les Sure sounds good to me. The PCB manufacturer will probably ask for the Gerber and Drill files etc, are you familiar enough with Protel to pass those on to me, either that or i will try just sending them the .PCB file and see if they can work it out themselves. The next question is who want a PCB so i can work out how many to get made up, the postage & PCB will be free to members here, so start putting your orders in guys so i can get an idea If you don't want to divulge personal addresses, i don't mind that either as long as i have an address to ship too Les you can have as many as you want, just give me an idea, you may have your own friends to give some too. Regards Peter Peter, Since I have taken it this far, I may as well finish it by making the layout for the second pcb as well. I have re-drawn the circuit diagram, showing the separation between the two boards. Everything to the right of the RED lines will be placed on the second board. (See attached diagram 'nanopup6.sch'.) The modified pcb layout for the DRIVER, 'nanopps4.pcb' is also attached. This board needs no further modifications. As for Gerber files, please note the following: ALL Protel pcb files I publish are complete. Yes, Gerber files need to be extracted from them but I NEVER had to do that since my pcb suppliers have ALWAYS done that as part of their service! Nowadays though, most of them are reluctant or unwilling to do that because they are too lazy and want maximum profit for minimum work! You just have to find the RIGHT one.....! (My present pcb supplier is the BEST I ever had! In China!) So if you are not 'tied' to a particular pcb manufacturer, I could put you onto my supplier! Their QUALITY and SERVICE is second to none and their prices are HALF of everyone else'! No kidding! Just to show you the kind of quality they produce, I have attached a photo of the first nano-board I designed a couple of months ago and they made 10 pieces for me for $36.00, including postage! Cheers, Les Banki ------------------------ nanopup6.sch.pdf (14.32 kB - downloaded 620 times.) NANOPPS4.PCB (12 kB - downloaded 374 times.) electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply nppcb1.JPG (440.66 kB, 1280x960 - viewed 1381 times.) electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply nppcbt.JPG (437.59 kB, 1280x960 - viewed 1348 times.)

Peterae	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #120 on: 2014-09-16, 19:03:06 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	Hi Les No problem with the supplier, i think the one i used before would probably of used the .PCB as it was but just wanted to check with you. So in that case you can indeed pass your Manufacturers details onto me via PM and i will use them Thanks for the additional layout work Les I have had 3 requests for boards so far So if i were to send you 3 sets, i would then have 1 set for me 3 spare if i get 10 sets made, and if we need more then that is easy to order another 10, and there maybe alterations of the 2ND board anyway once we do some tests. PS i could not see the component reference when i loaded the .PCB in protel, is that because i did not load a .sch as well or do i need to turn something on to make that visible, if you look at my post above with the PCB view it shows where the details should be but does not seem to have the information like R1,R2 etc. Regards Peter

Les Banki	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #121 on: 2014-09-17, 04:38:01 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2014-09-16, 19:03:06 Hi Les No problem with the supplier, i think the one i used before would probably of used the .PCB as it was but just wanted to check with you. So in that case you can indeed pass your Manufacturers details onto me via PM and i will use them Thanks for the additional layout work Les I have had 3 requests for boards so far So if i were to send you 3 sets, i would then have 1 set for me 3 spare if i get 10 sets made, and if we need more then that is easy to order another 10, and there maybe alterations of the 2ND board anyway once we do some tests. Regards Peter Hi Peter & all, I have just received permission to publish all contact details of my pcb manufacturer: I would like to suggest publish my contact details as follows: Name: Grace Liu Website: http://pcb.hqew.net/?s=545651 Email: hqewpcb1@gmail.com Mobile: 86-15220275629 Skype: hqew-three So, if and when you wish to order, just email Grace (a delightfully helpful and pleasant young lady!), mention my name and attach the pcb file(s) you want made. You can also use their web site directly to get instant quotes, without even having to "register"! (So far, I have not found any other web site where you don't have to "register" just for getting a quote!) As for the second board, give me a couple of days to do the layout and I will publish (attach) the pcb file. Quote from: Peterae on 2014-09-16, 19:03:06 PS i could not see the component reference when i loaded the .PCB in protel, is that because i did not load a .sch as well or do i need to turn something on to make that visible, if you look at my post above with the PCB view it shows where the details should be but does not seem to have the information like R1,R2 etc. Regards Peter You don't need to load .sch file to see the component details. When you have the pcb layout displayed on the screen, you just ENLARGE it (using the "Page Up" button, for example). Keep pushing the "Page Up" button until the component details are displayed! By the way, in my personal opinion, the early Protel For Windows (PFW) software is the BEST CAD program ever written for pcb! The original Protel pcb software was delivered on a SINGLE Floppy disc! (You remember those?, with the capacity of 1.44Mb!?) The sch software was on 5 Floppy disks. Thus, the entire PFW software package was on 6 Floppies! "They" just don't/can't write software like that any more! Just have a look at the size of my pcb files! For example, the LARGEST board in my WFGP ('autorpm.pcb') is only 40kb! Anyway, enough 'raving'......! Cheers, Les Banki

Les Banki	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #122 on: 2014-09-18, 08:18:23 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Grumage on 2014-09-15, 11:45:37 Dear Les. You mentioned the transformer in your latest post. Have I missed something? I have not seen any reference to construction/ratio ! Please forgive me if I have missed it? On a different note, my son and I have tried to run a larger 4 stroke engine, 3 inch bore 4 inch stroke fitted with a Platinum tipped sparkplug. All we got was a catastrophic backfire !! Safety equipment is a definite MUST !! My ears are still ringing. Cheers Graham. Graham, You have not missed anything since there was/is not much point discussing the transformer until the SIThy substitution has been solved. However, I am including an ETD49 ferrite transformer on the second board I am doing now. As for your 'ringing' ears, can you imagine me doing several explosions a day (NOT with engines) every time someone interested 'dropped in'? All that was about 18 or so years ago.... It was great fun at the time but I did not wake up to the long term damage. That is the main reason why I am half deaf! (excessive hearing loss for my age) Never mind.... Cheers, Les Banki

Peterae	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #123 on: 2014-09-18, 19:51:55 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3960	Hi Les Lets wait for the second board and i will order both at the same time Cheers Peter

TinMan	Re: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply « Reply #124 on: 2014-09-20, 08:20:54 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: Les Banki on 2014-09-14, 08:58:56 Chet, “RE : the huge disparity in fuel and Ambient air here, “ You seem to be fascinated with the AIR/FUEL ratio of 99:1. Why? I don't know if the above is your expression or someone else's but it doesn't matter. The only “huge” thing about it is that it is a *gross misconception* and if I don't “knock it on the head”, it is going to spread just like other misconceptions! No offense but it seems that some people have lost their ability of logical thinking and observation! Whoever thinks that a 99:1 ratio of AIR and FUEL (HydrOxy in this case) is a “huge disparity”, should do the following experiment: Get an ordinary, standard fuel injector for petrol (gasoline, for the folks in the US) and set up your equipment. You don't need petrol for this test, you can use water. Pressurize the water to about 40psi. (most injectors work in the range of 36-42psi range) Set your injector power supply pulse TIMING to 10ms. Direct the output of your injector into a closed container. Fire (activate) your injector 100 times. (your TOTAL injection time is 1 second.) Now remove your container and measure (either by volume or by weight) the water collected! Divide the result by 100 to get the volume (or weight) of ONE 'squirt'! Well, I am not going to spoil your 'fun' by giving you the result! However, just to “tease” you a little: do you think it will be 3.9cc, injected in just 10ms You can report back here with your result and also tell us if you still think a 99:1 ratio is such a “huge disparity”!?!? Oh, alright, I know that not a single one of you will ever do the above experiment so here is an easy to understand explanation: Question: HOW MUCH water did you electrolyze to get 3.9cc HydrOxy? Answer: Divide 3.9 by 2000 = 0.00195cc!, or 1.95 mm³, or 0.04 drop, or 1/25 of a drop!!! Well, then, when you inject 0.00195cc of water into the 420cc cavity (cylinder) of your generator, what is the Air/Fuel ratio? Try 215384:1 THAT you could call a HUGE “disparity”!! Some of you might think I am “splitting hairs” here but hey, this is happening in everyday life with every fuel injected engine all around the world! The numbers may be a bit different with liquid fuels but the basic principle is the same! (Sure, there is a BIG difference between liquid and gaseous fuels but that is not the point here.) Actually, you might be surprised to know that depending on the QUALITY of the HydrOxy (its mono-atomic contents of H and O), it might be LESS than 1% required! Cheers, Les Banki Les I find it hard to believe that any engine on any fuel will run at a 99:1 ratio. Lets take LPG for an example.The air fuel(gas) ratio using this fuel is around 12.5 to 14:1-->any higher and your engine runs lean and hot,not to mention the power loss,and the damage that follows. Looking at your claim of 99:1 fuel/air ratio. Lets take a 6hp honda stationary motor(im using this motor because i know how much HHO it take per minute to get it to idle),which are close to 200cc. So using your ratio,we need close to 1cc every stroke of the engine(engine is 200cc,but only fires once every 2 revolutions) 200/99=2.02/2=1.01cc per revolution. So at 3500rpm,we need only 3.535LPM of HHO . Now,when i run my 200cc motor at 900RPM(idle),i need 7.2LPM of HHO-or it just wont run. So from this,i am very interested to know how exactly you manage a 99:1 fuel ratio to get an ICE to run. No fuel that i know of will run an ICE at this ratio. Cheers Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

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