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Author Topic: TinMans magnet experiments  (Read 15170 times)
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« Last Edit: 2014-07-21, 21:50:44 by Chet K »
   

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Dear Chet.

OMG !!  That thread is one hell of a mess !!

I know first hand that Aussies are thick skinned but I personally would have thrown in the towel a long time back !!   :)  Tinman my hat is off to you !!  O0

I had a little play about earlier on and floated a small disc Neo magnet on a pool of Mercury. Got it to spin beautifully. Does that prove anything ??

I read that the rotation was being "supposedly" caused because the magnet was conducting current. It was suggested to use a ceramic magnet ??  What are the thoughts on applying an electrostatic/HV source to a ceramic magnet suspended in Mercury ??   

Musings !!??

Cheers Grum.


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Lol-yes ,quite messy over there Grum,but i keep going because i hold great interest in this spin theory. It would be nice to get the opinions of you guys here on your thought's. I have a lot more experiments to do yet,and some of the one's i have already done need to be gone over again-like the electromagnet one. I just dont see why the vortex wont form with the electromagnet like it dose with the PM  ???

The other thing that has me a bit stumped is-if the homopolar works on the right hand rule deal,then how come it works in water,when the current flow is from all directions-via the water.

Next we try for a full wireless spinning magnet lol.


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Quote
I had a little play about earlier on and floated a small disc Neo magnet on a pool of Mercury. Got it to spin beautifully

------------------------------------
Mercury Huh?
Lots of Lore around about Mercury ...

gotta Vid on that settup?
thx
Chet
   

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So, the rotating magnet in the water is not a homopolar motor?
   
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The other thing that has me a bit stumped is-if the homopolar works on the right hand rule deal,then how come it works in water,when the current flow is from all directions-via the water.

You are confirming to me with these kind of experiments that what W.B. Smith said about spin is dead on.  Ken Wheeler elaborates on the concept, but I'm having a heck of a time understanding it.  The part I do understand from Ken is that the poles of a magnet appear the way they do based on your point of reference; the direction of spin is the same at both ends, but what you perceive from one side is clockwise and what you see at the other is counter-clockwise, but the spin through the magnet is in one direction.

Being down under, did you reference which pole of the magnet is touching the screw?  And do we know if this gizmo will run the same direction here North?  I would presume it would, but these days...  I would no longer bet money on it.
   

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You are confirming to me with these kind of experiments that what W.B. Smith said about spin is dead on.  Ken Wheeler elaborates on the concept, but I'm having a heck of a time understanding it.  The part I do understand from Ken is that the poles of a magnet appear the way they do based on your point of reference; the direction of spin is the same at both ends, but what you perceive from one side is clockwise and what you see at the other is counter-clockwise, but the spin through the magnet is in one direction.

Being down under, did you reference which pole of the magnet is touching the screw?  And do we know if this gizmo will run the same direction here North?  I would presume it would, but these days...  I would no longer bet money on it.
Hi Matt
In regards to the spin-Quote:  The part I do understand from Ken is that the poles of a magnet appear the way they do based on your point of reference; the direction of spin is the same at both ends, but what you perceive from one side is clockwise and what you see at the other is counter-clockwise, but the spin through the magnet is in one direction.

That is correct. When looking at the magnet from side on,the spin from bottom to top is the same ,but if you turn the magnet upside down,or look from undernieth,it is spinning in the opposite direction-that is whats ment by !! your point of reference
Take a square piece of clear glass,and draw a spiral on it-say clockwise. Now flip the sheet of glass over,and the spiral is now counter clockwise. Frame of reference= from where your viewing. You know those little toy car's with the flywheel drives-that you give a few pushes,and then let go,and off they go. Well when you send it on it's way,let it go a few feet,then pick it up,turn it 180* then set it back down-and off it go's in the opposite direction,even though the wheels are still spining in the same direction.

Here is another perfect example. We know a wood drill bit only drills in one direction.Now if we hold the drill with the drill bit faceing up,and rotate the drill bit slowly,we can see the spiral bit looking like it's running down the drill bit to the chuck. If we face the drill down to the ground,the spiral on the drill bit looks like it's going up towards the chuck-and yet the drill is still running in the same direction.


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Here i done a test as requested by picowatt on OU.I have electrically insulated the side of the magnet,and yet the magnet still spin's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xmwnsCw2BI&list=UUsLiBC2cL5GsZGLcj2rm-4w


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Hi TinMan,

What I see is a sipinning electrolysis that will destroy the magnet is due time.

The resistance of the electrolyte would depend on the amount of energy needed, also you will be creating HHO.

Did I miss anything?

Tom.
   

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Hi TinMan,

What I see is a sipinning electrolysis that will destroy the magnet is due time.

The resistance of the electrolyte would depend on the amount of energy needed, also you will be creating HHO.

Did I miss anything?

Tom.
yes-that is what i said in all the video's.


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Hi Brad

Yeh that forum is the pitt's. Remember that vid you have seen of HHO that I sent you? think about it, the electromagnet is AC or pulsed as in RF. I have a theory that a perminent magnet emitts pulses which no one has really thought about it doing that, lets face it it is a field of waves.

Try this with your electro magnet, my experiments in this field are for hydrogen production and uses both the electro magnet pulsed and also the electrodes at nano second pulses. A perminent magnet in my setup also works, hence my theory of a perminent magnet is a pulsating field, a DC electro magnet is not ;) a difference that could change the way we look at things :D

Great videos as always :)

regards

Mike 8)


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Lol-yes ,quite messy over there Grum,but i keep going because i hold great interest in this spin theory. It would be nice to get the opinions of you guys here on your thought's. I have a lot more experiments to do yet,and some of the one's i have already done need to be gone over again-like the electromagnet one. I just dont see why the vortex wont form with the electromagnet like it dose with the PM  ???

The other thing that has me a bit stumped is-if the homopolar works on the right hand rule deal,then how come it works in water,when the current flow is from all directions-via the water.

Next we try for a full wireless spinning magnet lol.


Maybe I'm missing something but your experiment seems to be doing exactly what it should.
You explained it perfectly except it should work.  Keep in mind a homopolar generator
creates a radial current.  A disc has an infinite amount of radii thus every point on the
edge of the disc is capable of generating  a current. Reverse  that, i.e, create a motor,
 and every point is capable of drawing a current.

Oldtimers used to use mercury to function as slip rings when drawing current from their HPG's
to ensure good contact at the edges, fully immersing the  the edge.
Your  conductive water is basically the mercury and instead of using the  it to capture
current you are using it to transfer current to the disc.  Your experiment works beautifully.
   

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Oldtimers used to use mercury to function as slip rings when drawing current from their HPG's
to ensure good contact at the edges, fully immersing the  the edge.

Yes,that is correct. But what would happen if they immersed the whole disc(including the shaft) in mercury,as i have done with the water?


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This is what I should have put at the top of the Page.

What is causing this Vortex ?

why is this not common knowledge [or is it]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfqNkmqXfn4
   
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Yes,that is correct. But what would happen if they immersed the whole disc(including the shaft) in mercury,as i have done with the water?

From the video it looks as if your shaft extends out of the tank.
I think the rod becomes an extension of the screw. 
   
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From the video it looks as if your shaft extends out of the tank.
I think the rod becomes an extension of the screw. 

It seems you have essentially  built what in this pic.
   
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@tinman

Welcome to the OUR forum where free energy sanity may reside and where discussion is "usually" based on a higher modicum of mutual respect. hahaha

I had put up a drawing at OU to show you the dynamic difference in form between your coil test and the magnet test. There was no comments. Fine.

Look, just take a tall glass of water. Place your magnet on a small base so it is about 1" above the bottom. Then drop a BromoSeltzer in the water that will produce air bubbles that should saturate the volume of water. Then tell us if the bubbles spin on their own over the magnet like you showed in your first vids.

Calcium Hypochlorite (swimming pool shock treatment) will also produce only fine air bubbles since this reverts to oxygen when in contact with water, but it has a very stringent smell so your room has to be well aerated. (Actually I use that to make pills that I ingest once in a while to increase oxygen content to fight of bacteria, virus and parasites. It's called MMS2 - hahaha). Works great.

The other methods for producing bubbles without using any electrical impulse on plates that may be leaving behind a remnant charge on the bubbles that then reacts to the magnet while rising up the sidewall are,

- Small air pump pushes air through a submerged air diffuser to produce micro bubbles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6pGXlrrzjY

This video is great because it also shows the difference between regular water and salted water at 2% (sea water is about 3.2% or 32,000 ppm salt content). When the salt water tank if fully saturated and the bubbles are almost standing still in the water, that is the only time a magnet should be submerged into the tank to see if there is a vortex on the top that occurs on its own, without any direct source of atom splitting producing rising bubbles as experimented thus far. Notice the right tank is producing some vortexes.

- Small water pump with a small venturi that creates micro bubbles as water flows through the venturi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4czczYnuM_w

I tried to explain to @TA about the bubbles and how to test. I tried to explain to him about his TV screen and how a magnet effects the screen but the visible fine patterns he sees are not indicative of any same fine patterns exiting the magnet. I tried to explain to him about ferrofluid and the dynamics of fluid surface tension and that his ideas have to hold against a myriad of natural conditions and they do not, but despite all this, not one direct comment was produced by him that held any logic save his same responses. That says it all man, this guy is like a diode, one way in, one way out. There is no going back, no possible change of notions, no possible consideration of alternative perspectives, only his and only his way. That only leads to dead ends for everyone. You see, if he would have rebutted my comments with some perfectly understandable and logical notions, I am more then open to change and not afraid of modifying my own ideas when they better fit nature. But he cannot, so his best strategy is to just continue on as he is doing while insulting people left right and center.  

So tell me, when you see the sand in the dessert producing fine sandy waves, is it the wind that is doing this alone as a top impinged wave pattern or is it the wind direction based on the given sand particle size that are reacting to the wind and producing those waves. @TA would say the wind just created the sandy waves from one vertical drop of wavy air patterns. Go figure.

So..............I won't be posting any more on his OU thread simply because @TA does not want to talk. All he is doing is repeating the same talking points, same words, same sentences, same lingo, all to say nothing and ultimately, all I am doing is wasting my time. This origin topic is top on my study list since many years and I was really looking forward to scramble brainwaves with someone I thought had something to say. If I wanted to engage in such "diodeisms", I'd buy a parrot and teach it my own words and sentences to be repeated back to me 100 times a day. I don't need @TA for that. All @TA is doing is describing what he sees and not what the reasons of the effects are. So he says there is a big dance around the magnets, one side hoot'in, the other side holler'in and all this creates a mass interplay of fields upon fields upon fields that is PROVEN by the patterns on the TV screen. hahaha. What a total joke. I am very disappointed because I thought he had more substance then that.

But at least while preparing my second to last post over there, I finally discovered where the problem was, now as clear as wiping a dusty window to see through it at last and I will be developing my final exposure of what I consider is the central pivot to all EE, and that is Spin Conveyance. Remember these two words man. They will change how we see EE. Man have we been wrong, we have managed to over complicate the simple and it's time to bring simple back, like when Tesla was around.

In actual fact, I don't give two f&*ks what @TA thinks or does because I know the actual readers out there, after so many years many have learned how to "read between the lines" while others will just gobble up anything. I cannot change the latter and will not even try. hahaha

wattsup

PS: @GK, thanks for the PMs. I really needed them at this time. I'm checking your back man, always. I'll be on your thread soon and have some great stuff to explain there about SM. Maybe just to say, I've always wanted SM to be real. But my pragmatic and logical side only wants the truth and has no place for hope, so all I can do is be real to who I am, as I am and just roll with the punches. If we wind up discovering both OU and also that SM was a fake (or not), then SM would indeed still have played a role in all of it either directly or indirectly, by the force of things, he would have some influence either as a direction or misdirection leading to the end result.  In an way, SM forced us to leave our standard mindset and learn to think out of the box. Thanks again.



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Wattsup
Kens ["TA"}  NO Bubbles, No wires. No power,   just a static stationary magnet creating a multiple Vortex

 Vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfqNkmqXfn4

he says he is also making a better Vid

thx
Chet
« Last Edit: 2014-07-22, 20:42:58 by Chet K »
   

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@tinman

Welcome to the OUR forum where free energy sanity may reside and where discussion is "usually" based on a higher modicum of mutual respect. hahaha

I had put up a drawing at OU to show you the dynamic difference in form between your coil test and the magnet test. There was no comments. Fine.

Look, just take a tall glass of water. Place your magnet on a small base so it is about 1" above the bottom. Then drop a BromoSeltzer in the water that will produce air bubbles that should saturate the volume of water. Then tell us if the bubbles spin on their own over the magnet like you showed in your first vids.

Calcium Hypochlorite (swimming pool shock treatment) will also produce only fine air bubbles since this reverts to oxygen when in contact with water, but it has a very stringent smell so your room has to be well aerated. (Actually I use that to make pills that I ingest once in a while to increase oxygen content to fight of bacteria, virus and parasites. It's called MMS2 - hahaha). Works great.

The other methods for producing bubbles without using any electrical impulse on plates that may be leaving behind a remnant charge on the bubbles that then reacts to the magnet while rising up the sidewall are,

- Small air pump pushes air through a submerged air diffuser to produce micro bubbles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6pGXlrrzjY

This video is great because it also shows the difference between regular water and salted water at 2% (sea water is about 3.2% or 32,000 ppm salt content). When the salt water tank if fully saturated and the bubbles are almost standing still in the water, that is the only time a magnet should be submerged into the tank to see if there is a vortex on the top that occurs on its own, without any direct source of atom splitting producing rising bubbles as experimented thus far. Notice the right tank is producing some vortexes.

- Small water pump with a small venturi that creates micro bubbles as water flows through the venturi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4czczYnuM_w

I tried to explain to @TA about the bubbles and how to test. I tried to explain to him about his TV screen and how a magnet effects the screen but the visible fine patterns he sees are not indicative of any same fine patterns exiting the magnet. I tried to explain to him about ferrofluid and the dynamics of fluid surface tension and that his ideas have to hold against a myriad of natural conditions and they do not, but despite all this, not one direct comment was produced by him that held any logic save his same responses. That says it all man, this guy is like a diode, one way in, one way out. There is no going back, no possible change of notions, no possible consideration of alternative perspectives, only his and only his way. That only leads to dead ends for everyone. You see, if he would have rebutted my comments with some perfectly understandable and logical notions, I am more then open to change and not afraid of modifying my own ideas when they better fit nature. But he cannot, so his best strategy is to just continue on as he is doing while insulting people left right and center.  

So tell me, when you see the sand in the dessert producing fine sandy waves, is it the wind that is doing this alone as a top impinged wave pattern or is it the wind direction based on the given sand particle size that are reacting to the wind and producing those waves. @TA would say the wind just created the sandy waves from one vertical drop of wavy air patterns. Go figure.

So..............I won't be posting any more on his OU thread simply because @TA does not want to talk. All he is doing is repeating the same talking points, same words, same sentences, same lingo, all to say nothing and ultimately, all I am doing is wasting my time. This origin topic is top on my study list since many years and I was really looking forward to scramble brainwaves with someone I thought had something to say. If I wanted to engage in such "diodeisms", I'd buy a parrot and teach it my own words and sentences to be repeated back to me 100 times a day. I don't need @TA for that. All @TA is doing is describing what he sees and not what the reasons of the effects are. So he says there is a big dance around the magnets, one side hoot'in, the other side holler'in and all this creates a mass interplay of fields upon fields upon fields that is PROVEN by the patterns on the TV screen. hahaha. What a total joke. I am very disappointed because I thought he had more substance then that.

But at least while preparing my second to last post over there, I finally discovered where the problem was, now as clear as wiping a dusty window to see through it at last and I will be developing my final exposure of what I consider is the central pivot to all EE, and that is Spin Conveyance. Remember these two words man. They will change how we see EE. Man have we been wrong, we have managed to over complicate the simple and it's time to bring simple back, like when Tesla was around.

In actual fact, I don't give two f&*ks what @TA thinks or does because I know the actual readers out there, after so many years many have learned how to "read between the lines" while others will just gobble up anything. I cannot change the latter and will not even try. hahaha

wattsup

PS: @GK, thanks for the PMs. I really needed them at this time. I'm checking your back man, always. I'll be on your thread soon and have some great stuff to explain there about SM. Maybe just to say, I've always wanted SM to be real. But my pragmatic and logical side only wants the truth and has no place for hope, so all I can do is be real to who I am, as I am and just roll with the punches. If we wind up discovering both OU and also that SM was a fake (or not), then SM would indeed still have played a role in all of it either directly or indirectly, by the force of things, he would have some influence either as a direction or misdirection leading to the end result.  In an way, SM forced us to leave our standard mindset and learn to think out of the box. Thanks again.


Hi Wattsup
I was just about to PM you at OU,and see if you could slip over to this thread,but here you are already-cool.
Looking forward to some calm in the storm  O0. But now it's 4.30am, and im off to work for another 14 hour shift.


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Before we get started here on this subject,i would like to get something cleared up in regards to the homopolar motor(pictured bellow) First up-do PM's have field lines running out the north,and back into the south end,or is it just a solid force with no such line's?(using terms here that most associate with magnets) Some say yes,and some say no.

Second-looking at the motor  below,can some one please tell me if it is the magnets field acting apon the magnetic field around the orange wire,when current starts to flow,that causes rotation. If so,how is a directional force obtained from a uniform magnetic field of the PM,and the uniform magnetic field from the wire-and please dont say the !right hand rule! thing either,as that dosnt give me an answer.

Once this is cleared up,then we can go onto the next question i have,regarding my motor working in the water.


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Dear Brad.

May I ask a simple question ??

If there was a spiral field being generated by the PM, why does it not manifest itself whilst sitting on a Mercury pool, or for that matter simply suspended on a thin string ?

It seems that an electrical current passed through is the only way this phenomena comes to life.  Does this current enhance the effect ? Slow it down to a point where it can be seen visually ? Some months back I did the opposite of you, fixed a Neo in an electrolyte and created the whirlpool in a glass. Oh, and quite a mess !! As the magnets plating eroded.  ;D

To me, that is the first goal !!

Cheers Graham.



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Before we get started here on this subject,i would like to get something cleared up in regards to the homopolar motor(pictured bellow) First up-do PM's have field lines running out the north,and back into the south end,or is it just a solid force with no such line's?(using terms here that most associate with magnets) Some say yes,and some say no.

I don't think we can use magnetic field lines as a proper description of what is really happening here.  I made it past half of Ken Wheeler's e-book and the thoughts that are crossing my mind are that the planar dielectric field is being shifted Northerly or Southernly by the electric current.  This planar disc wants to center itself to steady state in the middle.  The permanent magnet IS SPIN in its steady state.  So the phenomena you are seeing is the planar disc of dielectric trying to center itself and as it does so, it climbs up or down the vortex spin of the PM.  This is why the direction of current offsets the planar disc a specific direction causing a specific direction of rotation in the permanent magnet.

I could be completely off my rocker, but if I am, it's Ken's fault.   :)
   

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Dear Brad.

May I ask a simple question ??

If there was a spiral field being generated by the PM, why does it not manifest itself whilst sitting on a Mercury pool, or for that matter simply suspended on a thin string ?

It seems that an electrical current passed through is the only way this phenomena comes to life.  Does this current enhance the effect ? Slow it down to a point where it can be seen visually ? Some months back I did the opposite of you, fixed a Neo in an electrolyte and created the whirlpool in a glass. Oh, and quite a mess !! As the magnets plating eroded.  ;D

To me, that is the first goal !!

Cheers Graham.


Hi Graham.
Yes,these are the first test i did,with the magnet fixed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-37Ecjd7FQQ&list=UUsLiBC2cL5GsZGLcj2rm-4w

I am trying to figure out a way to watch the fields form as a magnetic field slowly intensifies.


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Matt
I have not had time to read Ken's book  [traveling and working]
I appreciate your thoughts and interpretation...

helps me understand a bit

thx
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The PM is conductive maybe some ionic interaction carrying current causes the spin. Have you tried this with a non conductive magnet or perhaps seal the whole holder used in cling film to insulate it.
 The electromagnet is copper wire I assume, have you tried steel yet?
It may only work with ferromagnetic materials.

A suggested couple of ideas if you have the time to rule out these possibilities.
 It's already fascinating seeing the vortex only appear with a PM.

Great work. O0
   
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