Marinov Generator

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2024-11-26, 18:27:13
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Author Topic: Marinov Generator (Read 54675 times)

TinMan	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #100 on: 2019-06-05, 17:20:00 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: F6FLT on 2019-06-05, 16:20:06 Bright idea! Especially if you pick the current right in the middle. If you have a long bar magnet, you could also try this: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2470.msg74662#msg74662 (if there is a voltage, this would be the first experimental evidence of a HPG with the rotating conductor outside the magnetic field). Not sure i understand there F6,as the B field exists all along the length of a magnet or solenoid,and so a voltage would indeed be produced across the disc. The magnetic field would cut the disc just as that of a HPG. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

F6FLT	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #101 on: 2019-06-06, 08:18:33 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: TinMan on 2019-06-05, 17:20:00 Not sure i understand there F6,as the B field exists all along the length of a magnet or solenoid,and so a voltage would indeed be produced across the disc. The magnetic field would cut the disc just as that of a HPG. Brad There is no B field outside a long solenoid (in fact there is a weak residual field if the solenoid is not infinite). See here explanation, § "Outside". A long cylinder magnet is exactly like a long solenoid carrying a DC current. In the proposed experiment, the disk has a hole, and B=0 at the position of the remaining part. The magnetic flux is only crossing the hole, there is no flux through the metal part. The Lorentz force applying to the disk electrons is the explanation of the Faraday disk. Here it can't apply. Nevertheless I expect a current. A HPG without magnetic flux through the rotating conductor would be a great innovation. I haven't seen it anywhere else except in the Marinov's setup which is a proof of concept more complicated than mine. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

TinMan	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #102 on: 2019-06-06, 10:38:14 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: F6FLT on 2019-06-06, 08:18:33 There is no B field outside a long solenoid (in fact there is a weak residual field if the solenoid is not infinite). See here explanation, § "Outside". A long cylinder magnet is exactly like a long solenoid carrying a DC current. In the proposed experiment, the disk has a hole, and B=0 at the position of the remaining part. The magnetic flux is only crossing the hole, there is no flux through the metal part. The Lorentz force applying to the disk electrons is the explanation of the Faraday disk. Here it can't apply. Nevertheless I expect a current. A HPG without magnetic flux through the rotating conductor would be a great innovation. I haven't seen it anywhere else except in the Marinov's setup which is a proof of concept more complicated than mine. Ah,ok Looking at your sketch again,i see the magnet has to be a cylinder and not a solid rod magnet. I assume this is the difference ?. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

F6FLT	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #103 on: 2019-06-06, 12:13:44 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: TinMan on 2019-06-06, 10:38:14 Ah,ok Looking at your sketch again,i see the magnet has to be a cylinder and not a solid rod magnet. I assume this is the difference ?. Brad The magnet is a solid rod magnet. By "cylinder" I meant a cylinder that was not hollow, that was not just a drum. But maybe I didn't understand your question. Actually, it doesn't matter if there's a hole in the magnet. For example, the rod could be composed of many disc magnets or ring magnets. The important point is that the magnetization is along the axis. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

TinMan	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #104 on: 2019-06-06, 13:24:16 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: F6FLT on 2019-06-06, 12:13:44 The magnet is a solid rod magnet. By "cylinder" I meant a cylinder that was not hollow, that was not just a drum. But maybe I didn't understand your question. Actually, it doesn't matter if there's a hole in the magnet. For example, the rod could be composed of many disc magnets or ring magnets. The important point is that the magnetization is along the axis. Ok,well then i still do not understand as to why this setup of yours will not work just like a HPG,as the magnetic flux will still be cutting through the disk. I can tell you right now that it will work as a HPM,so therefor it should also work as a generator. If we were to use a long solenoid,and where the copper disk was a thin secondary coil,then passing an AC current through the solenoid will result in the thin secondary being induced. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

F6FLT	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #105 on: 2019-06-06, 14:06:43 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: TinMan on 2019-06-06, 13:24:16 Ok,well then i still do not understand as to why this setup of yours will not work just like a HPG,as the magnetic flux will still be cutting through the disk. ... However, I gave the key to this understanding: Lorentz's force. Electrons are only subjected to this force if they bathe in the magnetic field. No B field through the disc between the two sliding contacts, so no radial Lorentz's force on the electrons. And yet there should be one. Quote If we were to use a long solenoid,and where the copper disk was a thin secondary coil,then passing an AC current through the solenoid will result in the thin secondary being induced. In this case the force on the electrons is tangential, not radial, and due to dA/dt, not to the Lorentz force. Nevertheless it's the equivalent for the mechanical case that my setup should show: force without a B field at the position of the electrons. --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

TinMan	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #106 on: 2019-06-06, 17:58:03 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: F6FLT on 2019-06-06, 14:06:43 However, I gave the key to this understanding: Lorentz's force. Electrons are only subjected to this force if they bathe in the magnetic field. No B field through the disc between the two sliding contacts, so no radial Lorentz's force on the electrons. Well you've lost me,as i see a clear B field through the disk,and the Lorents force will be at right angles to the B field. It seems no different to that of a HPG to me. See pic below. ------------------------ Marinov Generator magnet B field through copper disk.JPG (18.93 kB, 318x307 - viewed 649 times.) --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

F6FLT	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #107 on: 2019-06-07, 09:00:55 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: TinMan on 2019-06-06, 17:58:03 Well you've lost me,as i see a clear B field through the disk,and the Lorents force will be at right angles to the B field. It seems no different to that of a HPG to me. See pic below. You have shown a poor representation, probably from weak magnets (AlNiCo or ferrite which have more leaks), and the rod is not long enough compared to the size of the disc. See what you will have with a long neodymium rod: See also : https://www.quora.com/Why-is-there-no-magnetic-field-outside-the-current-carrying-solenoid ------------------------ Marinov Generator magnetField.jpg (188.05 kB, 750x1102 - viewed 637 times.) --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

TinMan	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #108 on: 2019-06-08, 12:19:13 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: F6FLT on 2019-06-07, 09:00:55 You have shown a poor representation, probably from weak magnets (AlNiCo or ferrite which have more leaks), and the rod is not long enough compared to the size of the disc. See what you will have with a long neodymium rod: See also : https://www.quora.com/Why-is-there-no-magnetic-field-outside-the-current-carrying-solenoid Ah,ok. Well we would need a really long magnet for that,1 which i do not have. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

partzman	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #109 on: 2019-06-08, 13:36:48 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1808	For those here with an understanding of the flux field around a solenoid or long cylindrical PM, where will the energized wire go shown in the illustration below and why? Regards, Pm ------------------------ Marinov Generator PM Field2.png (12.29 kB, 329x272 - viewed 527 times.)

TinMan	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #110 on: 2019-06-08, 14:40:51 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: partzman on 2019-06-08, 13:36:48 For those here with an understanding of the flux field around a solenoid or long cylindrical PM, where will the energized wire go shown in the illustration below and why? Regards, Pm What do you mean by !energized wire! ? --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Smudge	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #111 on: 2019-06-08, 15:08:54 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1940	I think he means a wire carrying a current into the page as denoted by the cross or plus sign in the circle. The wire will follow Fleming's LH rule. Smudge

TinMan	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #112 on: 2019-06-09, 01:52:13 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: Smudge on 2019-06-08, 15:08:54 I think he means a wire carrying a current into the page as denoted by the cross or plus sign in the circle. The wire will follow Fleming's LH rule. Smudge Well in that case we need to know-- 1-what is it that is trying to be achieved ? 2-where is the position of the second current carrying wire ? --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

F6FLT	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #113 on: 2019-06-09, 10:27:02 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2072	Quote from: TinMan on 2019-06-08, 12:19:13 Ah,ok. Well we would need a really long magnet for that,1 which i do not have. Brad Your magnet is long enough. Simply use a smaller disc, for example with a rim around the magnet at a distance approximately equal to the radius of the rod. The proof of concept is obtained if you measured about the same voltage between the center of the magnet and its periphery (functioning with the magnetic field through the disk, classical "Faraday's disk generator"), as between the periphery of the magnet at the position of the disk and the rim of the disk (functioning with the vector potential and without magnetic field through the disk). --------------------------- "Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

partzman	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #114 on: 2019-06-09, 15:43:07 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1808	Quote from: TinMan on 2019-06-09, 01:52:13 Well in that case we need to know-- 1-what is it that is trying to be achieved ? 2-where is the position of the second current carrying wire ? I find it interesting that no one to date has ventured a guess! Or done the experiment! With all due respect, I see much theory being discussed here so I would think this should be easy to analyze or answer. My point in posting this was to have the results explained. I have my own idea but maybe it's so simple that I just don't "get it". There is only one current carrying wire positioned in close proximity of the PM with the ability to move somewhat freely. The ends of this wire simply connect to a DC power supply. Regards, Pm

Itsu	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #115 on: 2019-06-09, 16:21:08 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	I did the experiment and like mentioned by Smudge, the wire will follow Fleming's LH rule, so the field will be like drawn and the both fields will repel causing the wire to move to the right. Itsu ------------------------ Marinov Generator PM field.png (138.5 kB, 450x372 - viewed 493 times.)

ronee	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #116 on: 2019-06-09, 20:05:03 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 841	Quote from: Itsu on 2019-06-09, 16:21:08 I did the experiment and like mentioned by Smudge, the wire will follow Fleming's LH rule, so the field will be like drawn and the both fields will repel causing the wire to move to the right. Itsu Will the wire also move up or down? Am I out out of the park here to suggest the magnet will move in relationship to the wire, like in John Bedini's zero force motor? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-GZerEwObo Ron

Itsu	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #117 on: 2019-06-09, 21:18:40 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	Quote from: Itsu on 2019-06-09, 16:21:08 I did the experiment and like mentioned by Smudge, the wire will follow Fleming's LH rule, so the field will be like drawn and the both fields will repel causing the wire to move to the right. Itsu ooops, my bad, i did not check the polarity of the magnet, turns out in the above post it was South up instead of North. Doing it again making sure North is up, the wire is attracted to the magnet, so to the left...... Laying the magnets flat (horizontal) on the bench does not show any movement left or right, meaning up or down when put vertical. Sorry for the mistake, Itsu ------------------------ Marinov Generator PM field right.png (138.66 kB, 450x372 - viewed 501 times.)

partzman	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #118 on: 2019-06-09, 21:25:48 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1808	Quote from: Itsu on 2019-06-09, 16:21:08 I did the experiment and like mentioned by Smudge, the wire will follow Fleming's LH rule, so the field will be like drawn and the both fields will repel causing the wire to move to the right. Itsu Itsu, Was your wire movement restricted? Did the wire only move to the right? Pm

partzman	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #119 on: 2019-06-09, 21:29:12 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1808	Quote from: Itsu on 2019-06-09, 21:18:40 ooops, my bad, i did not check the polarity of the magnet, turns out in the above post it was South up instead of North. Doing it again making sure North is up, the wire is attracted to the magnet, so to the left...... Laying the magnets flat (horizontal) on the bench does not show any movement left or right, meaning up or down when put vertical. Sorry for the mistake, Itsu Itsu, I missed this post of yours while I was creating my previous post so my question now is, where did the wire end up in relation to the magnet or where did it attach to the magnet? Pm

Itsu	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #120 on: 2019-06-09, 21:40:02 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	PM, the wire is a cliplead wire about 30cm long fixed on both sides hanging in a loop. Magnet is a stack of ceramic disk magnets 5cm long. at about 0.5cm from the magnet stack, the wire will move about 3mm, almost touching the magnet. Redoing the horizontal test shows a very slight movement to the left (north at left). Using about 7V from my PS going into current limitation. Itsu

partzman	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #121 on: 2019-06-09, 23:00:26 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1808	Quote from: Itsu on 2019-06-09, 21:40:02 PM, the wire is a cliplead wire about 30cm long fixed on both sides hanging in a loop. Magnet is a stack of ceramic disk magnets 5cm long. at about 0.5cm from the magnet stack, the wire will move about 3mm, almost touching the magnet. Redoing the horizontal test shows a very slight movement to the left (north at left). Using about 7V from my PS going into current limitation. Itsu Itsu, Thanks for doing the experiment. I have included a link to a video of my results done a few years back and I'm curious to see if you get the same results with your PM assembly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2JFDpTE_ls My question is, why the apparent attraction to the bloch wall? Pm

TinMan	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #122 on: 2019-06-10, 00:27:03 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: ronee on 2019-06-09, 20:05:03 Will the wire also move up or down? Am I out out of the park here to suggest the magnet will move in relationship to the wire, like in John ######'s zero force motor? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-GZerEwObo Ron There is nothing special about the zero force motor. It's simply the magnet being repelled from the like field of the solenoid,and attracted to the unlike field of the solenoid. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #123 on: 2019-06-10, 06:11:12 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: partzman on 2019-06-09, 23:00:26 Itsu, Thanks for doing the experiment. I have included a link to a video of my results done a few years back and I'm curious to see if you get the same results with your PM assembly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2JFDpTE_ls My question is, why the apparent attraction to the bloch wall? Pm First off,there is no !bloch wall! as you call it. As far as your current carrying conductor go's-- Im not sure as to why it would choose a set side of the magnet,depending on which way the current flows through the conductor. I will have to experiment with that tonight. I would think it has something to do with the field spin of the PM,and the field spin around the conductor. A PMs field spin is concentrated at the center of the two poles,so this may answer that. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: Marinov Generator « Reply #124 on: 2019-06-10, 13:10:47 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: partzman on 2019-06-09, 23:00:26 Itsu, Thanks for doing the experiment. I have included a link to a video of my results done a few years back and I'm curious to see if you get the same results with your PM assembly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2JFDpTE_ls My question is, why the apparent attraction to the bloch wall? Pm Ok,this is indeed odd,and maybe some one here can explain it,but i cant. Quote My question is, why the apparent attraction to the bloch wall? I have found it depends on which way your PM is facing as to whether the current carrying conductor is attracted to the center of the magnet,or repelled away from it. So far i have found the following 1-the current carrying conductor is repelled by both the north and south fields of the PM,even though the current flow direction remains the same. 2-if the current carrying conductor is attracted to the center of the magnet,you can either invert the current flow through the inductor,or spin the magnet 180* to make the conductor become repelled by the center of the magnet. 3-The conductor is always repelled by the center on one side of the PM,but attracted to the center on the other side of the PM. I think this effect is caused by the field within the center of the PM,and not the outer field of the PM. If we look at the picture below,where we see the field of the PM,and the field of a current carrying conductor,and we take note of the PMs field inside the magnet,and disregard the field around the PM,we see that if the conductor is on one side of the PM,the magnetic field flow is the same direction. If we place the conductor on the other side of the PM,we see the fields flow is in the opposite direction. So on one side of the PM the conductor would be attracted to the magnet,and on the other side it would be repelled. And as i have stated before,the magnetic field is at it's most concentrated at the center of the magnet,not at each pole. This would explain what we see in my video below. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5SKYiSxSBk Im calling this the Partzman effect Brad ------------------------ Marinov Generator The Partzman effect.JPG (13.53 kB, 447x293 - viewed 396 times.) --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

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