Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf)

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Author Topic: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) (Read 41279 times)

Mehmet	Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « on: 2014-05-11, 23:15:59 »
Group: Guest	About a two weeks go, two guys successfully were able to convert gasoline powered generator engine to run with a refrigerant fluid/gas. This was done in a fully looped closed system. After initial start up, generator was totally self powered and was able to run 3 times more load that generator was designed power it so. Probably a short period of time, or else generator would burn up a fuse etc. Another guy "Bill" who knows these two guys wrote this pdf file. Seems good and clear instructions and part numbers and all that but there is no drawings or pictures yet. To what is worth, I am sharing with you. ------------------------ ATE engine mod 5 11 14.pdf (236.52 kB - downloaded 760 times.)

Chet K	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #1 on: 2014-05-11, 23:43:14 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Mehmet Is this "Alaska star" Chris Hunter?? must be, it has been a quite a few years since I last spoke with Chris a truly wonderful and gifted young man ......... think I'll give him a ring when I get back home next week. thx for sharing this , Chet K

Mehmet	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #2 on: 2014-05-12, 00:49:51 »
Group: Guest	Hi Chet, I think so, but never spoke to him myself. But I know the Bill that he is touch with him (two them). Hopefully some one can make a simple drawing to ad to these instructions. Nice to have a drawing that goes with it. Apparently there is somebody else that started to test this idea, you can the read the rest here. http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/84740/Refrigerant-for-engine-power-not-freon-for-Solar-generator . Years a go the "Famous Dennis Lee" proclaimed that they create a similar generator that draw the power from environment. He called "Fisher Engine" you can see that engine picture here http://www.abodia.com/f/Images/Dennis1.gif Mehmet.

ion	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #3 on: 2014-05-12, 02:33:50 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	l'd think there will be some piston blow by, allowing the working gas to bleed into the crankcase. The crankcase will have to be sealed or the working fluid will be lost. This means probably having to seal off the PCV orifice and maybe even add some positive pressure to the crankcase. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

muDped	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #4 on: 2014-05-12, 08:42:22 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3055	I am very glad to see that Alaska Star has apparently succeeded in his effort to make such an engine. He began work on it several years ago and kind of "disappeared" from the forums. Mrgalleria has done a lot of work with electrolyzers. Good to see that the two of them have teamed up on this project. --------------------------- For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

TinMan	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #5 on: 2014-05-12, 13:52:33 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Chet Here is that video i was talking about. Not to sure about this guy?. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt_hqmgwMBU --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #6 on: 2014-05-12, 14:14:34 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: ION on 2014-05-12, 02:33:50 l'd think there will be some piston blow by, allowing the working gas to bleed into the crankcase. The crankcase will have to be sealed or the working fluid will be lost. This means probably having to seal off the PCV orifice and maybe even add some positive pressure to the crankcase. Hi ION You dont want a positive pressure in the crank case,as this will act against the piston when it is in the power and inlet stroke.The simple fix is to let the PCV valve do it's job,and that is to relieve crank case pressure.In almost every engine(4 stroke) the crank case pressure go's through the PCV valve,and directly back into the inlet,via the air filter. The ICE is not the ideal engine design for this setup.You would be far better using a diaphragm based engine for this kind of system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljb7R09f-8k --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

ion	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #7 on: 2014-05-12, 15:45:47 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: TinMan on 2014-05-12, 14:14:34 Hi ION You dont want a positive pressure in the crank case,as this will act against the piston when it is in the power and inlet stroke.The simple fix is to let the PCV valve do it's job,and that is to relieve crank case pressure.In almost every engine(4 stroke) the crank case pressure go's through the PCV valve,and directly back into the inlet,via the air filter. The ICE is not the ideal engine design for this setup.You would be far better using a diaphragm based engine for this kind of system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljb7R09f-8k While your statement is true for a single cylinder engine, it is untrue for any even number of cylinders, as when one is going up another goes down, the pressure evens out. That is what I was referring to. A diaphragm pump would definitely be a better choice. Heat pumps are generally sealed systems so careful attention must be paid to shaft seals, dipsticks etc. if one is trying to convert an ICE to a heat pump or heat motor. Piston blow-by is real. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Mehmet	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #8 on: 2014-05-12, 18:07:31 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: ION on 2014-05-12, 15:45:47 While your statement is true for a single cylinder engine, it is untrue for any even number of cylinders, as when one is going up another goes down, the pressure evens out. That is what I was referring to. A diaphragm pump would definitely be a better choice. Heat pumps are generally sealed systems so careful attention must be paid to shaft seals, dipsticks etc. if one is trying to convert an ICE to a heat pump or heat motor. Piston blow-by is real. Ion, I agree with diaphragm pump idea, it's a very good choice. But what would you do with diaphragm pump? Circulate fluid to power hydraulic motor? How about air motor, would it not work?

Grumage	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #9 on: 2014-05-12, 21:15:28 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Dear All. Chet phoned me, all excited !! I have read the PDF about 3 times over, well the relevant bit's anyway and I have one pertinent question. The process seems simplicity in itself but?? Let us take a simple 100 cc Petrol / Gasoline side valve engine, perhaps from a Lawnmower. Compression pressure would reach just over 100 PSI (7Bar approx.) The suggested injector is designed to inject into the inlet manifold not directly into the cylinder. Motorcraft are rating their injector for a maximum gas pressure of 4 Bar. We immediately have a problem that when the injector is opened the gas will see 7 bar of pressure in the cylinder versus 4 Bar on the injection line !! It aint goin to work !! Apart from that one single problem the working principle seem sound. So I think we need to find a suitable direct injector with a delivery pressure greater than the compression pressure. All other worries like piston "blow by" can be easily dealt with by the use of a suitably placed NRV and returned into the low pressure side for reuse. Thoughts ?? Cheers Grum. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Peterae	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #10 on: 2014-05-12, 21:22:59 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_rail Quote Third-generation common rail diesels now feature piezoelectric injectors for increased precision, with fuel pressures up to 3,000 bar (300 MPa; 44,000 psi).[1][2]

Grumage	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #11 on: 2014-05-12, 21:57:19 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Quote from: Peterae on 2014-05-12, 21:22:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_rail Dear Peterae. I am quite familiar with the common rail Diesel engine injector and yes a great idea. But we only need, say 10 bar max !! I wonder whether the maximum ratings for the LPG injector could be exceeded ? I have had very little to do with Refrigeration equipment. How much pressure can be generated by a small Vehicle Air Con system ?? I am quite seriously interested in this one !! I have several Donor Suffolk Colt lawnmower engines to play with and I am also, luckily enough, to have a friend who's business is LPG conversions and also does Aircon repairs. Ace in the hole !! I will ring him tomorrow and ask some questions. And I hope get some answerers that I can share with us all? Cheers Grum. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Chet K	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #12 on: 2014-05-12, 22:12:46 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Grum I will try to get in contact with Chris again This is a project he was building last we spoke. http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:ArcticTek:Chris_Hunter_(Alaska_Star)'s_Axial_Flux_Motor Yes this is very intriguing . I also started a topic here [some interest here] http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/17019-chris-hunter-alaska-star-releases-o-u-pdf.html#post255631 Chet

Peterae	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #13 on: 2014-05-12, 22:18:30 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Hi Grum Here's some info about air con pump pressures https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060718155308AAjfrPU I will keep quiet now as i am sure you know a lot more than me on this subject, is interesting anyway

Chet K	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #14 on: 2014-05-13, 12:17:09 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	more to come......... I am corresponding with Chris I have invited him to assist. Will keep you posted. thx Chet « Last Edit: 2014-05-13, 13:21:07 by Chet K »

ion	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #15 on: 2014-05-13, 17:31:01 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Many say a sealed system turbine is the way to go for recovering waste heat. Here is a company that has 5 models in production. http://www.infinityturbine.com/ORC/ORC_Waste_Heat_Turbine.html I explored the patents on this and other designs and find they go way back to the 1930's Rather than try to retrofit / modify an ICE with all of it's problems, piston type refrigeration compressors might make more sense. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

evolvingape	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #16 on: 2014-05-13, 18:03:30 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2502 Everyman decries immorality	Love this... On the Horizon is PRotoMax, AHELNI, PHELIS, HRT and other integratable technologies. Cannot wait! http://www.overunity.com/10347/ahelni-advanced-hydro-electro-lytic-nozzle-insert/#.U3JPxCiUMYE ------------------------ Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) smiles.jpg (24.66 kB, 310x182 - viewed 2171 times.) Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) AHELNIR.jpg (87.04 kB, 687x1000 - viewed 1993 times.) --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs. Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security. Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.

Grumage	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #17 on: 2014-05-13, 18:10:45 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Quote from: Chet K on 2014-05-13, 12:17:09 more to come......... I am corresponding with Chris I have invited him to assist. Will keep you posted. thx Chet Dear Chet. Many thanks, but is it really this simple ?? Cheers Grum ------------------------ Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) RPE.JPG (209.29 kB, 960x720 - viewed 2173 times.) --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Chet K	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #18 on: 2014-05-13, 21:06:38 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Grum Pretty Much, and I have verification from Chris that it works "GREAT"as outlined in the PDF.... for the sake of a better replication I will see if a Pic can be shared? thx Chet

Centraflow	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #19 on: 2014-05-14, 11:58:12 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Using this below but recycling the CO2 you have what is proposed http://www.infinityturbine.com/ORC/New_-_Supercritical_CO2_System.html regards Mike PS. Their heat exchanger could be a lot better, my patented system would be up to 20% better. --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

ion	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #20 on: 2014-05-14, 12:17:04 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Actually it can be very simple, just one moving part, turbine and pump running on the same shaft in a totally sealed system with a hot end (evaporator) and cold end (condenser). See attached. A long time ago,I came up with a design that inverts the turbine and pump shown in the drawing, at opposite ends of the sealed container and circulates the working fluid through the hollow connecting shaft. ------------------------ Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) fig5BraytonClosedCycle_web.jpg (6.28 kB, 205x183 - viewed 1931 times.) --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Centraflow	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #21 on: 2014-05-14, 12:53:42 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Nice ION, I like things simple But to get a prototype built from parts easily got hold of I would suggest a turbo charger from a car engine might be adapted as the turbine, they are designed just as we want, to work off expansion of gases http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger I designed one to work on H2 and N2 many years ago This one built by Aaron of EF under my plans and direction just for that purpose regards Mike ------------------------ Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) turbojet1.jpg (69.57 kB, 253x264 - viewed 2712 times.) --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Grumage	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #22 on: 2014-05-14, 13:39:37 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Dear All. A bit of history. As there is nothing new !! Old ideas in new clothes !! See attached from 1873. Patent granted 1868. I have a 1/3 rd scale partially built model of this. Cheers Grum. ------------------------ Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) Brayton.JPG (329.52 kB, 960x720 - viewed 791 times.) --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Chet K	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #23 on: 2014-05-14, 14:04:45 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Graham good stuff there are a few other places where this thread will be "mirrored" http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/17019-chris-hunter-alaska-star-releases-o-u-pdf.html#post255715 and here http://www.overunity.com/14628/chris-hunter-alaska-star-releases-an-o-u-pdf/msg402360/#new For clarity Graham will be replicating Chris Hunter's [AlaskaStar] work with the intention of a public showing in the UK next month. For additional Clarity My use of the "OU" term in those threads is a bit "Hollywood" but has roots in Perspective....[looped closed system]. old habits die hard!! thx Chet

Grumage	Re: Refrigerant Powered Engine (gasoline replacement instructions pdf) « Reply #24 on: 2014-05-14, 20:52:53 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Dear All. I have thought of a simple possible method of overcoming the cylinder pressure. We could close couple a "Mainline" gas solenoid valve (these are designed to shut off the gas from the supply tank on LPG vehicles) to an Oil fired boiler spray nozzle !! This idea might just work in providing an atomised spray of liquid refrigerant into the cylinder. I have just finished in conversation with Chet and He is convinced we need two cylinders for this engine to work? I on the other hand think that a "Decent" flywheel should do the trick. Think about it for a moment. We are just using a material that expands within the cylinder !! Identical to igniting a fuel air mixture. That works singly, doesn't it ?? Cheers Grum. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

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