PopularFX
Home Help Search Login Register
Welcome,Guest. Please login or register.
OverUnity Research > Benches > PhysicsProf (Moderator: PhysicsProf) > Experiments and Anomalies
2024-11-27, 10:48:52
News: Forum TIP:
The SHOUT BOX deletes messages after 3 hours. It is NOT meant to have lengthy conversations in. Use the Chat feature instead.

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9
Author Topic: Experiments and Anomalies  (Read 138123 times)
Topic Options img
img  d3x0r
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #125 on: 2014-05-20, 19:34:59 »
Group: Guest
3 parts in parallel would be diodes, not caps.
   
img  ion
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #126 on: 2014-05-20, 19:57:56 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
Physics Prof asked:
Quote
How do you do this, assuming we're in the uA range?  A simple meter might give some sort of average.  Would you suggest voltage drop across a tiny test resistor, or what?
I get reasonable average numbers for LED current using my Fluke on the uA scale in series with the LED. This does not tell you the peak, but you can work backwards from duty cycle to get that.

You could use a CSR but now you are getting way down in the noise and need a very sensitive meter. You could try looking across the resistor with a scope, but the signal will be very noisy also.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using the simulation circuit and substituting a 50 to 350 pF variable mica capacitor for the fixed 200 pf, I can tune the drive capacitance to look just like the LS circuit on the bench with a real circuit. I wound the pot core  using 15 mH each, winding on a split bobbin to minimize inter winding capacitance. The circuit then draws about 20 uA avg. and delivers about 15uA avg. to the LED.

The aim was to prove that by  minimizing inter winding capacitance, I could simulate it external to the pot core winding capacitance and get the same waveform. So nothing special about the LS circuit, it is a current starved blocking oscillator.

I have not attempted to reduce power consumption further, but this can be done by raising the 1 meg resistor, however this makes the circuit hard to start. LS relies on diode leakage and sometimes his thumb appropriately placed to start.

That would mean for production he could only ship two units.  ;)


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #127 on: 2014-05-20, 20:12:32 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3017
Quote from: Hoppy on 2014-05-20, 19:20:13
Yes, except that I see two or maybe three stacked caps in parallel and possibly tantalum, not ceramics.

I asked LS.  He replied "The little ceramic caps are 100uF. There are two of them stacked in parallel."
   
img  Hoppy
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #128 on: 2014-05-20, 20:23:14 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2014-05-20, 20:12:32
I asked LS.  He replied "The little ceramic caps are 100uF. There are two of them stacked in parallel."

I think he means 2 x 100nF?
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #129 on: 2014-05-20, 20:41:19 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3017
You know, LS is actually very informative... let's give him credit!   Note: he's going on vacation soon.
His reply:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CL32A107MPVNNNE/1276-3364-1-ND/3891450

These are indeed 100uF multi-layer ceramic caps.
ION - do you need to change your SIM?
   
img  Hoppy
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #130 on: 2014-05-20, 20:51:07 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2014-05-20, 20:41:19
You know, LS is actually very informative... let's give him credit!   Note: he's going on vacation soon.
His reply:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CL32A107MPVNNNE/1276-3364-1-ND/3891450

These are indeed 100uF multi-layer ceramic caps.
ION - do you need to change your SIM?

OK, thanks for checking. If this checks out with ION's SIM, then I'm happy  we are seeing a genuine set of LED drivers from LS.
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #131 on: 2014-05-20, 21:05:21 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3017
ION's circuit and LS's latest are shown for everyone's convenience:
   
img  ion
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #132 on: 2014-05-20, 21:52:02 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2014-05-20, 20:41:19
You know, LS is actually very informative... let's give him credit!   Note: he's going on vacation soon.
His reply:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CL32A107MPVNNNE/1276-3364-1-ND/3891450

These are indeed 100uF multi-layer ceramic caps.
ION - do you need to change your SIM?

I agree,  he is informative. I give him credit for dogged persistence also.

Those caps are not shown on his earlier schematic, besides those are the power supply storage caps which are a variable depending on how long he wants to show it. Short term, he uses just the ceramics, long term he adds the external reservoir.

I don't show a storage cap since I am operating from a voltage source in the sim. I can possibly change it to 100uF or whatever and do some time measurements.


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  ion
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #133 on: 2014-05-20, 22:53:48 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
Here I simulate the light tap to the voltage source by setting the battery to a time "on" of 5 mS and coupling the battery to the 100uF using a Schottky diode. I couldn't find the switch I wanted in my library so I did it this way.

 The diode will drop about 0.2-0.3 Volts and the battery is simulated with 300 milliohms internal series resistance, like a PP3. Note the capacitor is fully charged in about 200 uS, so a 5mS "tap" is way too long.

green is cap voltage
blue is collector
red is base


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #134 on: 2014-05-20, 23:33:08 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3017
  Good stuff, ION.  I don't know if LS has taken a time measurement with just the 2x 100uF ceramic caps - but wonder if you could do a "prediction" SIM, to see how long the LEDs would glow?  that may be asking a lot of the SIM, but even a rough estimate would be interesting and something to compare with a measurement coming up  (I think).
   
img  ion
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #135 on: 2014-05-21, 01:53:10 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2014-05-20, 23:33:08
 Good stuff, ION.  I don't know if LS has taken a time measurement with just the 2x 100uF ceramic caps - but wonder if you could do a "prediction" SIM, to see how long the LEDs would glow?  that may be asking a lot of the SIM, but even a rough estimate would be interesting and something to compare with a measurement coming up  (I think).

Thanks Prof

I was doing just that when my program locked up.....guess I crashed the ram from too much number crunching......will try again with different settings. Should not be hard to do. As it was progressing you could see the slow decline in cap voltage.

I guess I could reduce the storage cap down to 1uF, then multiply the time by 200, but I like using real values.

Anyone have tricks for running the sim faster?

Need more time in a day, can anyone slow the earth down for say a 36 hour day?   C.C

Edit: Here is a run with 0.1uF storage cap. Now you need to multiply the time numbers by 1000 for 100uF actual. Note that the curve looks like a typical R-C discharge curve. Blue is Led Current , Green is Collector.
« Last Edit: 2014-05-21, 02:30:54 by ION »


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Hoppy
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #136 on: 2014-05-21, 09:08:54 »
Group: Guest
@ION,

Thanks for posting the results of your SIM.

From a practical point of view, my experimentation shows that around 200uA per LED gives the minimum light level for a 3 or 4 x white LED cluster suitable as a close-up casual reading lamp that would just be acceptable to me. So, the LS setup with 300uF or 400uF of tank cap plus a cap re-charge switch pressed every 20 seconds or so to connect a 9V battery, should do the job. However, it would be more practical (and probably cheaper to build) IMO to just have an on/off switch and run the lamp from a PWM LED chip driver on a say 3 x AAA battery pack or 9V PP3 battery or 2 x 3V lithium button cells, depending on mA/hrs and size of build required. Better still buy a cheap Chinese LED torch with chip driver.
   
img  Itsu
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #137 on: 2014-05-21, 09:36:03 »

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 4159
Quote from: ION on 2014-05-20, 22:53:48
Here I simulate the light tap to the voltage source by setting the battery to a time "on" of 5 mS and coupling the battery to the 100uF using a Schottky diode. I couldn't find the switch I wanted in my library so I did it this way.

 The diode will drop about 0.2-0.3 Volts and the battery is simulated with 300 milliohms internal series resistance, like a PP3. Note the capacitor is fully charged in about 200 uS, so a 5mS "tap" is way too long.

green is cap voltage
blue is collector
red is base

Hi ION,  

i replicated your little circuit with the parts i had, and made the same measurements , see screenshots (1st detailed look at traces, 2nd overview of the traces later in the run)

I used:

2x 10000uF in series = 5000uF
10Mohm resistor (giving still some good led output)
nanoperm toroid 2x 138mH
1 led from a solar garden light
BC547 transistor as i have burned out all my 2n2222 and germanium transistors with this little circuit  >:(  (they all destroy their base-emitter junction)
10V on the caps to start.
220pF ceramic capacitor

No time measurements done.

The problem is the led current which is very small.
I used my AC current probe in the led plus lead at its highest sensibility position (1mA/div.)  but due to the current probe terminator it should be taken times 2
(don't use the number in the box as i had some spikes in the green trace), so it shows something like 650uA,  times 2 = 1.3mA peak.

Using a lower value for the resistor (like 5MOhm and 2.2Mohm) brightens up the led, shortens the run time and increases the collector negative pulse width.

Yellow = collector voltage
Blue = Base voltage
Green = led current

Regards Itsu.
   
img  Hoppy
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #138 on: 2014-05-21, 09:46:35 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: TinMan on 2014-05-20, 14:44:24
Quote Hoppy: Its interesting that everything was telling me your device was a fake, especially the square waveform.

The wave form was real Hoppy-nice and clean as you seen it. The pic below show's a current trace aswell-blue trace. This is across a 1.5 ohm resistor-seems to have some inductance there as well-bad resistor?.

@ TinMan,

I forgot to comment that your square waveform surprised me because it was so flat topped and clean on the rising and falling edges. I thought you may have had a chip driver in the LED assembly.
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #139 on: 2014-05-21, 13:35:05 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3017
Thanks, ION.. looking forward to your results!

And thanks Itsu!
Quote
BC547 transistor as i have burned out all my 2n2222 and germanium transistors with this little circuit  Angry  (they all destroy their base-emitter junction)

LS noted that he had burned out xsistors also.
   
img  ion
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #140 on: 2014-05-21, 14:02:37 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
ITSU:

The reverse B-E voltage can destroy that junction when playing with higher values of coupling capacitance. A simple 1n4148 B-E will prevent this, and is good practice, if large reverse currents are expected.

Look at the spec sheet for the reverse B-E voltage and current capability for the transistor of your choice. It should not be exceeded. Capacitance coupling, whether it be inter winding capacitance or externally added puts a sharp negative pulse on the B-E junction that can degrade or destroy it.

LS however uses 3 1n4148 diodes to get some leakage current into the base so the circuit will start, which also offers protection. Diodes do have leakage. When that doesn't work he uses his thumb to add extra resistance. Whether your oscillator can start with 10 meg or 100 meg is based on the beta of the transistor. Super beta transistors from Zetex would probably allow such high values and more reliable start up, but the leds will be dim with less drive current be it bias resistor or capacitance value..

In my sims and on the bench, the oscillator keeps running until the cap gets to 1 or 2 volts, but converts slowly into a sine wave long after the leds have gone out.

Note that current to the leds and the light output diminishes with time according to the standard R-C time constant discharge curve.
« Last Edit: 2014-05-21, 16:57:44 by ION »


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Hoppy
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #141 on: 2014-05-21, 16:37:00 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: ION on 2014-05-19, 13:00:55
A little role reversal:

Have you ever been really frustrated  trying to decipher and replicate a device in a video, spending time away from your family or friends because you were being deceived.

Have you ever felt the anger for the wasted time when you found out it was a fake?

The video in question was picked up on the featured video page on Stefan's site OU.com. This will be viewed by tens of thousands, maybe a few hundred will spend the time trying to decipher the video and build it.

They may never see the disclaimer over here, and spend valuable time trying to replicate, only to be frustrated and angry at the end of the day.

Who bears the Karmic responsibility for such acts?

There are ripples in life, be careful what ripples you make.

Deceit is like casting a bag of feathers to the wind, will you be able to gather them all up again?.

"Oh what a tangled web you weave when first you practice to deceive"

I would caution anyone entertaining it to refrain from this type of activity.

Could there be a way around this by showing exactly how a device could be / was probably faked by filming every step of how this is achieved prior to demonstrating the device running? Take the TK Aqua2 as an example. IMO this was probably simply faked by running a thin wire through the tubular earth braid (as shown below) and used as the 'live' conductor, with the braid being used as 'neutral'. This approach should lead to no misunderstanding on the purpose & intention of the video. I ran a 2KW electric fan heater on around 5 metres of one strand of the thin red teflon coated wire shown.
   
img  ion
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #142 on: 2014-05-21, 17:07:05 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
I agree, Hoppy, the best is a disclaimer at the beginning, but better yet, imbed the disclaimer into the video saying in a banner "how x device was faked". The banner should be visible as a watermark throughout the video, so if someone copies a piece of it, this valuable info will not be deleted.

I totally agree with your take on the ground wire and came to the same conclusion early on. Unless someone can connect and disconnect the ground during operation clearly and with a single point connector, I will remain suspicious of ground wires.

Akula has a "foul" and points off for this, and because of his fakery in some videos, I also mistrust his other offerings.


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Hoppy
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #143 on: 2014-05-21, 17:24:40 »
Group: Guest
@ ION,

Yes, an excellent idea to include an embedded banner in a video. Most of the fakes we see on the fora are silly and obvious and not worth time wasted on them but its the self-running videos from the serial fakers that need to be countered.
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #144 on: 2014-05-23, 05:47:23 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3017
   
img  cheappower2012
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #145 on: 2014-05-23, 06:08:50 »
Group: Guest
Hoppy Hoppy,here you go again,a.king21 who organized the trip to see Tariel in Georgia
that led to the aquarium 2 video,stated many times,that during the 4.5 hours the 2kw heater was running
the ground was removed for a time and it still worked.Since there are no pictures of this disconnection of the ground,you could say he is a lying. ;D
Unfortunately in my opinion a.king21 is holding out on some pictures and information,
he believes he can profit on Tariels device,it can never happen as Tariels device like the tpu is a low tech device
easily made by most people once the information is known.

Ok guys

You decide ,the theory is that a ground braid carries two wires and transmits power from the concrete connection outside,
thru the window into the  box.I have included a picture of the back of the box showing where the
ground braid goes,it goes into a black box,notice that the silver braid is hooked to a copper braid.
The next picture is a picture not done by me but another member who removed all non important features,
the connection from the 2kw heater comes from blue wires they go to a coil to give it a Tesla slant,
two blue thick wires are the direct connections to the 2kw heater,one wire is connect to the copper ground braid
the other is connected to a funny green transformer.
A wire bundle comes out of the black box, it includes all connections to the  green transformer
in that bundle,there should be a return wire,if the power is coming from an external source(ground braid)
Where is that wire,why is there no connection to the thick blue wire connected to the green transformer
at all.

Do I believe this device is real, yes, unfortunately it is a very low tech device,you could not make any money with it.This is the reason Tariel puts on hes shows.
My investigation is because it appeared to be related to the tpu,but operated on ac,line frequency,the question was how and why.
A.king21's team had Tariel make this device when Tariel was very sick,normally,he modifies an unknown component then hides it in a box,
this makes it impossible to figure out what the component is.This time because he was so sick he dropped hes guard
and used a non modified component,and didn't hide it,a great deal is known about this green transformer,its original
purpose ,the year of manufacture,pinouts,ohm readings.
   
img  Hoppy
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #146 on: 2014-05-23, 08:22:50 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2014-05-23, 06:08:50
Hoppy Hoppy,here you go again,a.king21 who organized the trip to see Tariel in Georgia
that led to the aquarium 2 video,stated many times,that during the 4.5 hours the 2kw heater was running
the ground was removed for a time and it still worked.Since there are no pictures of this disconnection of the ground,you could say he is a lying. ;D
Unfortunately in my opinion a.king21 is holding out on some pictures and information,
he believes he can profit on Tariels device,it can never happen as Tariels device like the tpu is a low tech device
easily made by most people once the information is known.


C'mon, TK's no fool. He knows that we will be eyeballing all over the fish tank. He certainly would not connect the 'X' wire in camera view. Its most likely taken out of the braid and into the black box before the thin section of braid and routed to the blue wire coil out of camera view. Alternatively, it could be a couple or more strands of thin gauge ECW taken right through the braid, which would not be easily detected running through the thin section of braid.

The bottom line, is that a 2KW fire could not be run for 4.5hrs (if that report from a.king21 is to be believed) on batteries that could be hidden in that aquarium, so if its low tech as you say and there is no grid connection, then you must believe that this device is running on free energy. I certainly don't!

As for the device running with the earth wire disconnected and a.king holding out on some pictures and information, he has never shown any photographic evidence from his investigating team that this was in fact possible and I very much doubt he ever will.
« Last Edit: 2014-05-23, 09:11:09 by Hoppy »
   
img  cheappower2012
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #147 on: 2014-05-23, 10:10:20 »
Group: Guest
Tariel was near death,he didn't figure anyone could piece together
his device so really didn't hide anything,this time he dropped hes guard.
 He Used this transformer for a very specific
reason,there are also other information thats been missed ,in plain sight.
One thing that has always  boggled my mind the insistence that the understand of
things learned in college classes would apply totally to a real world free energy(converter)  device.
This device is not a free energy device,but a converter,it converts an unknown
energy source into electrical energy,the energy source is very dense this is why 2kw
 is not outrageous.
I only posted because I knew you would post a counter argument,you assume that
the x wire is out of camera view,a.king21's team were idiots,a.king21 lied,Tariel hid the x-wire.
Your argument boils down to show me a working device,then I will believe it maybe,you see an
acorn
and you say whats that,you don't see the possible end result.During my time in the tpu threads
 at
overunity.com,people tried countless things,they never got anywhere,theres no building on anything,
because you constantly
change the rules so there can be no progress,as has happened on many devices of course most
didn't work.I am not
trying to convince you Tariels device
is real any more that trying to convince members here that SM lied hes ass off to them thats
impossible,you want to believe tariels device is fake
some members want believe SM didn't lie to them,you can believe what you want.

Look at whats  being built in this forum a replication of replication where the replication
was never shown to work,and some thinking it will self run thats totally insane.
I'll stick to investigating Tariels device and SM's device, its a long shot but better odds.
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #148 on: 2014-05-23, 13:47:33 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3017
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2014-05-23, 05:47:23
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mJX5qW4ghk&feature=youtu.be

That shows the waveform obtained with LS's latest device. 
ION -- I'd say you were right -- the circuit provides pulsed power at a fairly high voltage (30 Vpp typical) but low duty cycle as shown in the vid.

Makes a decent flashlight.

Unfortunately, in probing with my DSO probe last night, I blew out the transistor... sigh.  LS says he has blown many xsistors playing with the circuit (and not to feel too bad about it).  But I'm traveling today, so no repairs until tomorrow I think.
   
img  ion
Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #149 on: 2014-05-23, 14:56:10 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2014-05-23, 13:47:33
That shows the waveform obtained with LS's latest device.  
ION -- I'd say you were right -- the circuit provides pulsed power at a fairly high voltage (30 Vpp typical) but low duty cycle as shown in the vid.

Makes a decent flashlight.

Unfortunately, in probing with my DSO probe last night, I blew out the transistor... sigh.  LS says he has blown many xsistors playing with the circuit (and not to feel too bad about it).  But I'm traveling today, so no repairs until tomorrow I think.

The transistors may be destroyed because of the peak reverse current or voltage applied to the base of the transistor. Check the data sheet for the device you are using. It will probably state the E-B reverse voltage but not current. The junction will break down at some level of current.

A simple diode B-E would prevent this and is common practice in the industry, especially in circuits where peak reverse current or voltage is expected. A low value resistor in series with the base (100 to 1k) would also reduce peak reverse current.

It might also be that the C-E voltage is being exceeded at the spike during the turn off time of the transistor, the rising edge, especially if the LED's do not turn on rapidly enough to snub the spike.

Theoretically you could reduce the burst rate to around 20 bursts per second and the retina will integrate into what appears to be a steady light.


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9
« previous next »


 

Home Help Search Login Register
Theme © PopularFX | Based on PFX Ideas! | Scripts from iScript4u 2024-11-27, 10:48:52