Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires

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OverUnity Research > Benches > Peterae (Moderator: Peterae) > Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires

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Author Topic: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires (Read 59560 times)

BEP	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #125 on: 2010-05-14, 10:53:35 »
Group: Guest	Equipment I use in my real life. Some of my duties include vibration analysis, ultrasonic assessments, thermography, MCA (motor circuit analysis) and power quality analysis. I am a WaveWatcher

Peterae	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #126 on: 2010-05-14, 20:35:39 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Hi WW Let me know when you are close to building the pic board, there is an error on the pcb and you will need to put a link on the back, i will also email you the software to burn into the pic. I did think about correcting the pcb error, but i think it maybe a good idea to build it exactly as i have to be a close rep just incase it makes a difference, and it's only one link anyway. Peter

Peterae	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #127 on: 2010-05-15, 12:02:34 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Ok guys A few interesting things, i have replaced both fets with the new IRF840A's and i have lengthened the wires to the coil and also the fet sources. Anyway it seems to have worked i can now get crackles at about 50volts which seems to be a pretty safe voltage to make the fet's survive. I have been having trouble in my first tests this morning to find a spot where i could maintain a delay position and keep the crackles coming so i can grab some shots, but during this process i made a discovery, at my current setup settings, without using the pic board to drive the 2nd channel(I now have 2 mono boards all set using dip switches) When i flick the 2nd channel between a delay setting of 63nS and 31nS i get a single crackle every time i flick the dip switch. When the dip switch is set for 63nS i get 2 pulses appear across the coil and when i set the dip switch to 31nS i have only 1 pulse. So what i am saying is the sudden change between a delayed pulse of 63nS to 31nS causes a single crackle from the coil and i can produce it every time i flick the 6th bit on the dip switches. So what now, i set out to find a way to produce the crackles on demand and i seem now to be able to create a single one on demand Although i am not using my pic board for this test to drive the dip switches, i still have it powered up and every time i flick the dip switch to create the crackle it crashes

Peterae	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #128 on: 2010-05-15, 12:27:46 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	OK the 2 values i have been switching between are not unique i have found others, it seems important to go from a short delayed pulse to a longer delayed pulse very fast, i have seen other effects so far, including a sort of mains hum come from the coil instead of a crackle, this lasted only a couple of seconds, because i was randomly flicking switches i have only managed to do this a couple of times. One other thing i tried was increasing the pulse width of the 2nd pulse and this nearly caused something to melt, i could hear a sort of mains hum from the coil and smelt something getting very hot very fast so quickly turned of the coil supply, the current went upto about 200mA's to the coil during this, luckily everything seems ok still. When i flick from 63nS to 31nS my coil draws 25mA and 35mA in each switch position. I need to hold myself back from flicking too much i dont want to kill this system as i did previously until i have some data stored.

Peterae	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #129 on: 2010-05-15, 12:42:15 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Note to self never switch the signal generator on while the rest of the system is powered up, it just killed both fets and a hell of a noise came from the coil, i guess my signal generator tends to wind up in frequency when switched on and therefore must have done a frequency sweep until it stabilized. The tests above were carried out at around 450khz.

Peterae	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #130 on: 2010-05-15, 13:12:31 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Having thought about this for a while maybe i have this wrong, it's a click more than a crackle. Maybe it is this that creates the white noise i hear which is more frequent in occurrence where as the crackle or explosion only happens once in a while. I think it's much more likely that what i am hearing would cause the white noise within the coil system during random triggering of the fets, it's still interesting that i can crash the pic cpu when i flick the switches so there must be a sudden release of energy either way, just may mean the conditions have to be correct to release a lot more of it. « Last Edit: 2010-05-15, 13:54:57 by Peterae »

BEP	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #131 on: 2010-05-15, 14:51:24 »
Group: Guest	Is there any way you can place a radiation barrier between the PIC and the coil? For the type I suggest using something that could stop weak beta. A sheet of thick plastic - aluminum foil... whatever. It does not need grounding but should be electrically isolated from the circuit of the circuit common points. I'm not suggesting you have beta radiation.

Peterae	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #132 on: 2010-05-15, 14:53:45 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Here's a sound file recorded with a mike attached to a magnet sitting on top of the coil, note using my ear i can only hear a click when i switch from one delay setting to the other, but the microphone picks up a sort of humming noise in one delay setting but nothing on the other, very strange indeed, i was hoping you could pick up the click as i flicked between the two. ------------------------ sounds104.zip (1123.01 kB - downloaded 278 times.)

Peterae	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #133 on: 2010-05-15, 15:26:21 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Ahh blown it up again this time i switched on without my laptop connected to the serial port of the scope, when i switched on there was a loud high pitched noise from the coils and the fet's went instantly. $:-\$ 16 fet's left and counting DOH

Ken	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #134 on: 2010-05-15, 16:17:44 »
Group: Guest	Peter, Maybe you need to start a new thread. How to blow fet's 25 different ways. I have been wanting to ask if you can tell whats happening by the KABOOM.

BEP	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #135 on: 2010-05-15, 17:30:07 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Ken on 2010-05-15, 16:17:44 Peter, Maybe you need to start a new thread. How to blow fet's 25 different ways. I have been wanting to ask if you can tell whats happening by the KABOOM. You can't tell what is happening by the KABOOM but you can tell the exact amplitude That is, unless you are such a good KABOOMER you can differentiate between the flavors of KABOOM! WATZAMATTA? Uz guys don't speak KABOOM?

BEP	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #136 on: 2010-05-15, 17:43:03 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2010-05-15, 14:53:45 Here's a sound file recorded with a mike attached to a magnet sitting on top of the coil, note using my ear i can only hear a click when i switch from one delay setting to the other, but the microphone picks up a sort of humming noise in one delay setting but nothing on the other, very strange indeed, i was hoping you could pick up the click as i flicked between the two. It sounds like you are coupling with a 50Hz power source and hearing the second and third harmonic. Causing misfire in your power supply? Try battery power. You've invented a random energy sucking antenna? Try reorienting the magnet/coil combination. See if you can locate the source. It may not be in the coil. Maybe your 5U4GB rectifier in your UK Tele is gassy and the filament voltage is superimposed upon the output voltage

Ken	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #137 on: 2010-05-15, 19:25:21 »
Group: Guest	LMAO@WW

BEP	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #138 on: 2010-05-15, 20:04:17 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Ken on 2010-05-15, 19:25:21 LMAO@WW Yea, I hope to find out just how funny Peterae's experience is. I have the missing parts on order. I'm hoping for some serious bench time next weekend

Peterae	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #139 on: 2010-05-15, 20:31:00 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Sounds great WaveW cant wait to have someone else join in, hopefully not too many people as the price of fet's could go through the roof : I can swallow the dying fets a lot easier if i knew they were dying because of free energy Here's an audio spectrum video of the above audio file. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO2WaAH7FYk[/youtube]

Peterae	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #140 on: 2010-05-15, 21:17:44 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Quote Maybe your 5U4GB rectifier in your UK Tele is gassy and the filament voltage is superimposed upon the output voltage Grin Now come on WW i have invented a a random energy sucking antenna Not a time machine

darkspeed	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #141 on: 2010-05-15, 23:07:07 »
Group: Guest	Speaking of the cost of fets.... i have not blown the new ones yet! they have lasted the longest... " London calling ... KABOOM "

Ken	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #142 on: 2010-05-16, 01:45:14 »
Group: Guest	lol@kaboom. You guys make me laugh.

Lindsay Mannix	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #143 on: 2010-05-16, 02:12:38 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2010-05-15, 17:43:03 Maybe your 5U4GB rectifier in your UK Tele is gassy and the filament voltage is superimposed upon the output voltage That would more likely be the filament current if Stevens clue is worth while there . Fantastic thread !

BEP	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #144 on: 2010-05-16, 04:51:46 »
Group: Guest	Filament current aiding plate current? That is how it works, kinda. Lindsay, please check your PMs.

Peterae	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #145 on: 2010-05-16, 10:42:59 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Hang on with one fet setting i get nothing on the mike and on the other delay setting i get hum, surely i have just built an isolated hum switch not to mention a KABOOM switch, i think the KABOOM switch is marketable but not sure what to do with the warranty policy

Ken	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #146 on: 2010-05-16, 11:21:18 »
Group: Guest	Peter, The warranty is easy. Just put one of those stickers across the on/off switch that says, "removal of this sticker will void all warranties."

Peterae	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #147 on: 2010-05-16, 12:06:02 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Well the KABOOM of my fet's is being caused by feedback which i think has been pretty obvious, i started isolating things. First Test was with the mike against the coil and the scope connected as in previous tests, now when i flick the delay setting i would get a click in the mike and some of this hum noise when the mike was near the coil, first i removed the magnet from the coil and the hum was still there and also it still clicked when i flicked the dip switches. I tried moving the mike away from the coil and i still had the click and varying amounts of hum, so i powered down and disconnected the scope probe from the coil and disconnected the scope totally from the laptop that was monitoring the mike output. I then powered up and found it no longer clicked or had the hum on the mike. But the coil still clicked when i switched the dips, this was all on a lowish voltage. Once i started winding the voltage up again with the scope disconnected and just the mike connected to the lap top, i reached a voltage where everything became unstable, my laptop mouse pad stopped working and i had a really loud noise coming from the coil, so i am still getting feedback but this time it's from the coil which is feeding back to the fet drivers or delay boards, if the voltage was higher then i probably would have had a KABOOM event but instead i managed to record the noise on the mike without damaging the fets. ------------------------ sounds106.zip (1352.91 kB - downloaded 254 times.)

Peterae	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #148 on: 2010-05-16, 13:17:23 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Up to now i have always run above 5khz master frequency, but i have just discovered running under 5khz is progressively deadly and causes the coil to take large amounts of current, this explains why i got KABOOM's when i switched on my signal generator, it slowly wound up from below 5khz and as you will see from the following videos is lethal. For this test i disconnected the scope totally from the system. I found with a coil voltage as low as 1.5 volts with a magnet near the coil i could get loud noises from the coil If the magnet is placed near a tail wire to the coil the wire moves around dependent on the phase delay setting, during this video i had the delay phase on auto sweep from 0-255nS and back round constantly. After this video test i started altering the master drive frequency, and this effect only starts occurring at 5khz and below, when i start at 5khz it only makes the noises occasionally with certain delay settings, as the master frequency gets wound down the coil starts making progressively more noise in more delay settings until when i get real low in master frequency the coil is making the noises all the time. No wonder i get random KABOOM's if i can draw current at 1.5volts coil supply god knows what sort of peak current i get at 50 volts supply under these random feedback conditions. Things are turning really weird now. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBpPWwcp9OE[/youtube]

BEP	Re: Controller No 4 - Dual Fet Driver - Looking for Explosions in Wires « Reply #149 on: 2010-05-16, 13:54:19 »
Group: Guest	Any way for you to limit 'ON' time to a very short period, regardless of frequency? Bursts of <5kHz can happen during connection/disconnection of nearby devices. This may also trigger your pulse & delay boards.

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