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OverUnity Research > Motors > Permanent Magnet Motors > ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets)
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Author Topic: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets)  (Read 20949 times)
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img  PhysicsProf
?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « on: 2013-10-09, 19:54:07 »
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Discussion began yesterday at OU.com.  Vid up NOW, down within 24 hours -


Quote
Quote
Elecar:  This video will self destruct in 24 hours  Shocked

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--3rugO_RMg&feature=youtu.be

Suggest you at least watch the vid, and the description of the tests on this thread:
http://www.overunity.com/13879/building-a-self-looping-smot/msg372930/topicseen/#new

Looks like it works, in the Video, test 2.

Attached shows the prototype, and describes the three tests done in the Video.  Test 2 is the most intriguing IMO.
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #1 on: 2013-10-09, 22:52:29 »
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@Prof
If it did a complete loop I would be impressed however looks can be deceiving. I designed and built my last three homes(1550-1650 sq/ft), I did 90% of the labor on everything except the concrete work(foundation and slabs). My point is that the house was perfectly square and level to within 1/4" even over the long span of 50 feet. The rough-in plumbing was also graded or sloped to within less than 1/8" of spec over 30 foot runs.

Having worked with fairly precise measures I would have no trouble having the marble in question make a loop of 10 feet or more however making it loop... that I have yet to see. As well we can see the marble stop near the point of origin suggesting the elevation at the end is in fact lower. It is interesting and I want it to work as much as anyone however I just can't see it happening in this case.

AC



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Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #2 on: 2013-10-09, 23:06:28 »
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  Fair enough.  Researcher says it loops, and runs for hours (when he lets it go past the start point, back down the loop).
He says,
   "I will start by saying I will not be showing my finished design for a while" -- his choice.

 He also said,
"What I will do however is tell you how to go about building a self looping “SMOT” of your own using the principles employed in my design. "
So we'll see.
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #3 on: 2013-10-09, 23:39:08 »
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Fair enough.  Researcher says it loops, and runs for hours (when he lets it go past the start point, back down the loop).
He says,
   "I will start by saying I will not be showing my finished design for a while" -- his choice.

 He also said,
"What I will do however is tell you how to go about building a self looping “SMOT” of your own using the principles employed in my design. "
So we'll see.

What..... :D, No I didn't hear that part and in that case it would be huge. I think something like this is exactly what is needed and I have changed my stance somewhat in this respect over the last few months. I think we need something that works and can be repeated, not generating KW just something very very simple that works every single time. If we can do that then I believe all hell will break loose because it is now beyond all criticism as to whether it is real or not. ie... you cannot deny what you have built and is working right in front of you.
I hope it works but as you say it remains to be seen, I guess the real question is why wouldn't he post the self-looping video to remove all the doubt associated with something like this?. Or am I completely off base again,lol.

AC


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #4 on: 2013-10-10, 12:54:40 »
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  He has shared quite a lot of information, but said he would not show the self-looping (video) until later.
I think this has to do with his effort to work something out with a toy company...  Interesting approach, to market this as a toy...  What do you think of that?
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #5 on: 2013-10-10, 14:03:35 »
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I think it is brilliant to introduce something of this nature in a benign way to the people who matter the most... our children our future.

AC


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #6 on: 2013-10-10, 14:53:02 »
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Good point,AC. 
Latest from this interesting inventor, over at ou:

Quote
HI Pirate, I did consider not posting anything at all yet, but I have a patent pending and I am having exchanges with a toy manufacture who is interested. There are parts of the patent that I do not wish to disclose in full as it would not be right in light of the talks I am having. It really is that simple.

I believe there are many ways of doing it using any number of materials I have a number of my own designs drawn up. I also believe the simple tests that I put together in the video absolutely show that it is for real. Get the ramp right and get the junction right and you will have built a self looping "SMOT" using the principles I have shared.
   
img  ion
Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #7 on: 2013-10-10, 15:00:57 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Assume a perfectly frictionless environment and you could get the system to loop, then as soon as you try to extract power, you kill it.

While fun to play with, this does not seem to be the direction to solve our energy needs, IMHO. There are bigger fish to fry.

From Steve:
Quote
Interesting approach, to market this as a toy...  What do you think of that?

This would not be the first time. See Otis Carr patent.

Quote
Although Carr's business affairs were generally considered to be fraudulent, he was granted a patent at the US Patents Office for an "Amusement Device" US Patent #2,912,224 (filed January 22, 1959)


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Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #8 on: 2013-10-10, 16:17:17 »
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Assume a perfectly frictionless environment and you could get the system to loop, then as soon as you try to extract power, you kill it.

I think it's important to remember the rules always apply both ways and my argument for it would be simple. Any device operating for more than a few hours must extract energy from somewhere to overcome the drag forces involved namely Air Drag. The rules state it is impossible to loop more than a few times unless two conditions are present 1) energy is coming from somewhere or 2)an initial motive force is applied which obviously diminish due to drag forces.

Simply put, if it runs then either energy is coming from somewhere or it has negated all drag forces under ambient conditions and both are equally impossible in mainstream science... catch 22.

Basically this is what I call a game changer because the rules as we know them have been violated on various levels. As such when one rule comes into question then so must all of them. It is not the fact that it works it is the fact that most everyone in the known world was wrong and if they are wrong about something this simple then what else could they be wrong about?. You see they lose all credibility and people start thinking Hmm what else may be possible?.... game changer.

AC


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  gyula
Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #9 on: 2013-10-10, 21:48:52 »
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Yes, I also think this can be a game changer because sooner or later when it turns out that the toy (what its inventor Elecar plans to market with his chosen manufacturer) will have no any input energy from its user,  then the 'mainstream science' cannot dig its head into the sand... 
It does not matter if such toy or setup has no useful output energy and all it is able to do is keeping the mass of a 19mm steel ball in motion just by the attraction force of permanent magnets and by the force of gravity. IT matters only that it is able to do that.

Gyula
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #10 on: 2013-10-10, 23:52:41 »
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  Agreeing it could be a game-changer, if it self-loops repeatedly!  Clearly, ION, this track causes frictional losses, and there is also air drag.

  Attached:  a sincere question I asked Elencar, and his definitive response - encouraging.  Of course, I still would like to see the vid of it looping several times, WHEN inventor is ready.

Poynt -- is there any category for the OUR award for a self-looping device LIKE THIS if it works, but which does not output power in WATTS?  but which can be replicated?  can we re-visit the rules to include such a self-looping device?  In general, do mechanical devices merit an award?  I would think so.
  I think it could be called a "permanent magnet motor" since  if it works, one does  get motion out of it, hence a type of motor (which could in principle be refined to drive a generator etc).  For now, its "JUST a toy" - but still might be considered for the OUR award IMHO.
  
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #11 on: 2013-10-11, 05:34:27 »
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We could look at it this way, the first powered flight by the Wright brothers was not practical and in fact the military and governments stated it had no practical application... but look where it led us. If it works and the primary process is nailed down I would expect it would be improved upon leading to progressively better technology, that is how evolution works.

AC


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“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #12 on: 2013-10-11, 06:59:22 »
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Quote from: allcanadian on 2013-10-11, 05:34:27
@Prof
We could look at it this way, the first powered flight by the Wright brothers was not practical and in fact the military and governments stated it had no practical application... but look where it led us. If it works and the primary process is nailed down I would expect it would be improved upon leading to progressively better technology, that is how evolution works.

AC

Well said, AC.  And would not the FIRST bona fide powered flight merit an award of some sort, at that moment of success?  I think so.
   
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Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #13 on: 2013-10-11, 07:11:48 »
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  Now, if a stand-alone mechanical device can be demonstrated to ACCELERATE from one cycle to a few subsequent cycles, then that would be compelling.  IMO, this acceleration would show that a previously unknown or untapped source of energy was entering in.  In any case, such an experiment would be exciting!

« Last Edit: 2013-10-16, 13:31:19 by PhysicsProf »
   
img  Grumpy
Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #14 on: 2013-10-11, 14:36:26 »

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tExB=qr
Any device deserving an award should have a useful application.  While interesting, this device does not appear to have a useful application.
   
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Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #15 on: 2013-10-11, 14:59:29 »
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I recommend changes to accommodate a self-looping mechanical (non-electric, non-heat) device which does not produce readily measurable watts of power, but which is stand-alone and self-looping.  Here is a first try:

Quote
A mechanical device must be stand-alone and show continuous operation for five hours (minimum).

I can see this is a slippery slope because we already have some devices which may qualify. A pendulum under vacuum may qualify as well as spin stabilized magnetic levitation. The device as it stands may qualify because if it is self-looping then it must produce a gain to overcome the drag forces present. If we remove the drag forces then the gain should become apparent as a gain in momentum(mass-velocity).

AC


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #16 on: 2013-10-11, 15:27:10 »
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Grumpy and AC, you raise valid concerns...  It may be then that the device would need to evolve to giving output power (around 15 W say), and that may take some time...
   
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Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #17 on: 2013-10-16, 13:32:41 »
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  Now, if a stand-alone mechanical device can be demonstrated to ACCELERATE from one cycle to a few subsequent cycles, then that would be compelling.  IMO, this acceleration would show that a previously unknown or untapped source of energy was entering in.  In any case, such an experiment would be exciting!
   
img  BEP
Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #18 on: 2013-10-18, 11:15:12 »
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I've been checking when possible but haven't found evidence of 'self-looping'.

Is there any? A video?

tks
   
img  tinman
Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #19 on: 2013-10-18, 11:29:58 »
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well im still waiting for my internet to be conected at our new home,so using my mobile phone as a modem ATM-but very expencive.
Once my internet is conected,i will find a few video's of a smot that allows the ball to roll up hill,then be released at the end,and continue along another smot track-up hill once again. First and only time i have seen this-so hope i can locate the vidio's again.
After some reserch ,and building,i found something interesting in the way magnets and a steel ball react with each other. I havnt yet put it into practice as far as a SMOT go's,but will be doing just that very soon.

I havnt seen any looped systems yet WW.
   
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Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #20 on: 2013-10-18, 15:24:37 »
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Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2013-10-16, 13:32:41
  Now, if a stand-alone mechanical device can be demonstrated to ACCELERATE !
The conditions at the top of the system are critical.

If the ball arrives too fast, it will go wrong at this point, won't it?

Therefore, if there is acceleration, the Professor's prediction of excitement will be realised BUT the ball may come unstuck at the top.

If the ball is magnetic, it will therefore need to be slowed down with a coil around the track with a variable resistance output so that the ball behaves right at the top.

This coil gives us our power out.
   
img  tinman
Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #21 on: 2013-10-25, 02:52:37 »
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Here is the video i was talking about.Seem that the release is quite possable at the top of the ramp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEOit3ff4Hg
   
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Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #22 on: 2013-10-25, 05:08:54 »
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Quote from: tinman on 2013-10-25, 02:52:37
Here is the video i was talking about.Seem that the release is quite possable at the top of the ramp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEOit3ff4Hg
Very interesting.  His next vid continues the demo,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUFhv-QsDvA
This was March 2012.  Then he said he had military duty (see comments).
Up one ramp, drops out successfully, then onto and UP a second ramp.  He says wants to do four ramps in a square.
In comments, he says he is out of money (6 months ago)...  If anyone can contact him, I could provide some funding (no strings attached, except that he buy needed materials!)
   
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Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #23 on: 2013-10-25, 12:57:26 »
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Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2013-10-25, 05:08:54

Up one ramp, drops out successfully, then onto and UP a second ramp.
I have only glanced at the videos but it looks to me that he wastes the potential energy gained by letting the ball bearing drop, with a bang, to the level below.

It should be magnetic, and fall through a set of coils, generating power so that it comes to rest quietly. The load on the coils should control this falling process.
   
img  EMdevices
Re: ?? "Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets) « Reply #24 on: 2013-10-26, 14:17:07 »
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Prof, interesting video he has, looks like serious quality work, but I suspect it does not work in a looped fashion.  The ending height is lower than the starting one.

Now if he can demonstrate a drop of say 90% the height gained by one ramp, onto another ramp, then it should work.
   
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