Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel

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Author Topic: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel (Read 11555 times)

poynt99	Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « on: 2013-10-05, 16:39:23 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	FYI. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Defamation+of+character http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/libel http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/right-of-free-expression/defamation/defamation-elements-of-a-claim.html Open for discussion: - What constitutes libel in a forum setting? Are we being too sensitive....not sensitive enough? - When we talk trash, are we making untrue statements or just opinions about someone? - Did you know that true statements, no matter how damaging, does NOT constitute defamation? - Private individuals have more protection from Libel than do public figures. - In the United States, the person (alleged victim) must prove that the statement was false, caused harm, and was made without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement. etc. --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

muDped	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #1 on: 2013-10-05, 22:46:13 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3055	Excellent topic for discussion Poynt! It is my belief that considerable freedom of expression is essential to the success of any forum. As discussion progresses there are occasions when emotions may become inflamed and truth may suffer in the heat of conflict. But, it is possible to, with finesse, express emotion and truth without entering into the realm of nastiness. --------------------------- For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

Chet K	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #2 on: 2013-10-06, 17:13:51 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	well I prefer a more "Institutional" approach with my Behavior on these public forums. I am a guest in another mans house [forum] and would never do or say anything that would represent a liability to him or his interests.[Nor mine for that matter] Seems common sense to me! some presume they have true anonymity when they post in these venues? As long as they Honor the rule of law this is true, No matter how passionate Or "right" they believe they might be ...........! Thx Chet

poynt99	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #3 on: 2013-10-06, 17:48:54 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Chet, I agree we should all try to be respectful and sensible when using these forums. We must also accept that communicating on these forums is a two-way street. Meaning one form of communication (or lack thereof) often calls for an appropriate counter-response. I often see folks getting upset when others won't take their word as fact. Especially when it comes to making claims of extraordinary nature. IMHO, proof must flow in both directions (i.e. proof vs. disproof), and be given the opportunity to do so. --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

GibbsHelmholtz	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #4 on: 2013-10-06, 18:11:37 »
Group: Guest	It's a complex problem with truth. If company A say they make pure Sodium. (say 99.91%) Company B make a statement saying "Company A makes Sodium greater than 50% impurity". Company B makes 99.96% Sodium. So company B say that company A have 50% more impurity than company B Sodium. Company B is speaking the truth. Let's say the market both companies target fall largely in the range of 95% pure Sodium, we can see that there is politic going on here. It takes intelligent and honesty in these issues. Worry not, even Congress people who do this for a living subject to bias. The problem is not lack of intelligent. Or is it?

Farrah Day	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #5 on: 2013-10-07, 11:54:55 »
Group: Guest	If I were the paranoid type, I might think that I was largely responsible for this topic... but I'm not, so I consider Chet to be the culprit with his ungracious comments in calling my curtains 'tatty'. Do I have a case for suing him? The thing is, if we let people say what they want to say and claim what they want to claim, and indeed in many circumstances profit from such claims without ever even proffering one jot of proof, what does that make us? I'll tell you what it makes us... mindless fools! Yes things can get rather unpleasant at times, but in truth this is usually only when someone continually posts nonsense or continuously makes claims they are not willing to support in any way. There has to be a point where the gloves come off and they either put-up or shut-up! It's all very well being nice and polite, but this doesn't always cut through the crap very efficiently, does it? Sometimes you have to be blunt in order to make a point. Quote from: ramset on 2013-10-06, 17:13:51 well I prefer a more "Institutional" approach with my Behavior on these public forums. I am a guest in another mans house [forum] and would never do or say anything that would represent a liability to him or his interests.[Nor mine for that matter] You are not a guest in another man's house, you are a member of a club, so take your boots off and make yourself at home. The guests are the people that stick their noses through the door every now and then to see what's going on, but never actually join the party. Have you tried the bible forums Chet? I hear they're ever so polite and never say any rude words! Quote Seems common sense to me! Chet, with all due respect, the infamous Sonic Boiler seemed like common sense to you! How is that project going by the way? Quote As long as they Honor the rule of law this is true, No matter how passionate Or "right" they believe they might be ...........! It not about right and wrong, it's about truth. How much honour do you think the conmen and scam merchants have when they will happily take money from the gullible? Like I always tell you, the real world is not all soft and fluffy.

Chet K	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #6 on: 2013-10-07, 13:08:59 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Farrah Throwing stones from behind the curtain of anonymity at a known public person whilst "calling" his name and the attention of others to join in ? Well as they say in the Penitentiaries accross the land . ""You do you !!"" Its not what I do ,life is to short and the world is much to small to take such a stand with so little evidence, it's a hugh [Huge for some:'} leap of faith. I don't like looking over my shoulder ,and I sleep much better at night. ------------ There are people in this world who have done things in these fields of science for their own benefit that could benefit all,some times they get a conscience for the rest of the world and try to give back things which are no longer theirs to give,or in some cases not even Legal to discuss in public. That always looks messy from the other side of the fence. I have learned to never judge ,I have learned to be grateful ! Life is too short and the need is to great! thx Chet

tinman	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #7 on: 2013-10-07, 14:25:00 »
Group: Guest	Ok Chet And Farrah Whats a sonic boiler?

Chet K	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #8 on: 2013-10-07, 14:32:00 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	OOHHHH you shoulden't have............! Gas on the embers..... THANKS BRAD !! Chet ps A sonic boiler is a cavity resonator immersed in water which makes more heat then the energy used to run it. [very hard to get right]

Farrah Day	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #9 on: 2013-10-07, 15:12:39 »
Group: Guest	Chet, your somewhat lame attempts at these philosophical posts don't quite cut the mustard really... do they? I'm sure you post just for the hell of it most of the time, hoping that random words will just fall in place to make a meaningful sentence. I never really understand what you're going on about, but on the bright side, you keep me amused. Tinman, out of the goodness of his heart, Chet bought the patent and was making 100's of Sonic Boilers for third world countries across the globe. His little sonic boiler, that could fit inside a tea cup, was like a mini power station! The world is a much better place because of the sonic boiler and none of us need ever worry about heating our houses again. Quote ps A sonic boiler is a cavity resonator immersed in water which makes more heat then the energy used to run it. [very hard to get right] Yep, so hard to get right that no one has actually ever done it!! lol You just can't help yourself, can you, Chet!

tinman	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #10 on: 2013-10-07, 15:17:30 »
Group: Guest	Mmm-i seem to remember a small device that fits that description. I will see if i can hunt it out.

Chet K	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #11 on: 2013-10-07, 15:41:52 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Farrah I know my Brooklyn accent doesn't manifest very well into Your Queens Written English ......... However , I have also learned to never hand a man a stick to beat me with [An OU patent] And I always try to do the next right thing,which saves me quite a bit of time that otherwise would have been wasted looking for stones to throw......... So Lunch is off then?? Later Chet « Last Edit: 2013-10-07, 16:10:58 by ramset »

giantkiller	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #12 on: 2013-10-07, 17:04:05 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1593 Frequency equals matter...	Chet & Farrah, you two as a joint team have found Underunity! You two keep going at each other with no positive return. Amazing and its so easy. In fact you two have actually circumvented all known laws of logic too. You both go at it like divorcees in the ring with no referees and with all your efforts nothing but aggravated sniveling abounds. Rabid clowns... The sad part is the one who claims those most scientific prowess slings the most fecal mud. And the other party obliges with diabolical aim. So who now smells the best? Tis I who sports the best odoure with tenure of encrustmentment? If we were back on the farm i would pit both of you against each other in a flooded pigsty with cattle prods. A true battle to stench. --------------------------- http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/

BEP	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #13 on: 2013-10-07, 17:19:50 »
Group: Guest	GK, I hope there would be no charge for onlookers. Pun intended

Chet K	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #14 on: 2013-10-07, 17:31:51 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	GK As Curly used to say [3 stooges] ""Hey ,I resemble that remark"". I will try to be less disruptive! thx Chet

Farrah Day	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #15 on: 2013-10-07, 18:33:57 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: ramset on 2013-10-07, 15:41:52 So Lunch is off then?? No, not if you're paying. We might not see eye to eye very often (or even, ever), but I'm not one to turn down a free lunch! Take no notice of GK's hurtful comments, he just doesn't understand our complex relationship.

muDped	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #16 on: 2013-10-08, 02:00:01 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3055	Quote from: ramset I know my Brooklyn accent doesn't manifest very well into Your Queens Written English ......... Well, how about that? Fenimore Street near Flatbush Ave. in the Prospect Park area. Long, long ago. B-lyn and NYC as a whole is a jumpin' place! --------------------------- For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

Chet K	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #17 on: 2013-10-08, 02:49:05 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Dumped A very nice part of Brooklyn !! Thx Chet

tinman	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #18 on: 2013-10-08, 12:18:41 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: ramset on 2013-10-08, 02:49:05 Dumped A very nice part of Brooklyn !! Thx Chet Mmm, think i will stick to the kangaroos digging up the grass in the back yard. Im up for lunch to Chet,but you'll have to post the plane ticket,so as i can get there.

PhysicsProf	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #19 on: 2013-10-08, 15:37:10 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3017	An important topic, Poynt. Quote Defamation - Elements of a Claim Under Article 10(2) of the Convention, the protection of the reputation of others is a legitimate ground for restricting the right to freedom of expression. Libel and slander are legal claims that protect an individual’s reputation against defamation. An individual is defamed when a person publishes to a third party words or matter containing an untrue imputation against his or her reputation. Libel and Slander If the publication is in a permanent form (for example in a book, magazine or film), then the defamation is libel. It is slander if the publication is in a transient form (speech). Signs, gestures, photographs, pictures, statues, cartoons etc. can also give rise to a claim for defamation, but the most obvious types of defamatory statements are written or spoken words. The principal practical difference between claims for libel and claims for slander is what a claimant must prove to succeed in his or her claim. In libel claims, the claimant does not have to prove that he or she has suffered loss or damage as a result of the publication. In contrast, in claims for slander, the claimant must prove actual damage. There are however several exceptions to the rule that actual damage must be proved in claims for slander. For example, if the spoken words accuse the claimant of committing a crime; of having a contagious disease; of being unfit for his or her office, business or profession; or if the communication is an attack of the credit of trades people; or an accusation of being unchaste or adulterous against a woman or girl. In these cases damage is presumed and need not be proved. If person A accuses person B of MURDER on the internet, with little or no basis and certainly contrary to the TRUTH, is person A accountable for libel or for slander? And if both persons live in the US but in different states, what recourse for redress does B have? « Last Edit: 2013-10-08, 16:21:59 by PhysicsProf »

Chet K	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #20 on: 2013-10-08, 15:44:21 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	TinMan Quote ""Mmm, think i will stick to the kangaroos digging up the grass in the back yard."" ---------------------------------------------------- HMmmm He's diggin up the garden Huh...... Seems we're half way to Lunch already ,I hear they taste like Chicken !! @Physics Prof Thx for the back on Topic post !! Chet

muDped	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #21 on: 2013-10-08, 19:15:41 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3055	Quote from: Definitions For example, if the spoken words accuse the claimant of committing a crime; of having a contagious disease; of being unfit for his or her office, business or profession; or if the communication is an attack of the credit of trades people; or an accusation of being unchaste or adulterous against a woman or girl. In these cases damage is presumed and need not be proved. Within the Legal System barriers have been erected to discourage truth which may be critical of political office or appointment. Some folks really do need protection from slander or libel but politicians (professional liars) should be fair game, as should be anyone else who engages in deception. --------------------------- For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

Farrah Day	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #22 on: 2013-10-08, 22:24:57 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2013-10-08, 15:37:10 An important topic, Poynt. If person A accuses person B of MURDER on the internet, with little or no basis and certainly contrary to the TRUTH, is person A accountable for libel or for slander? And if both persons live in the US but in different states, what recourse for redress does B have? 'Contrary to the truth'? The key word here Prof, is 'TRUTH'. Make numerous, unsubstantiated claims and provide no evidence to the contrary and who really is the guilty party? And I don't always agree with Dumped, but here he puts it in a nutshell. Quote Some folks really do need protection from slander or libel but politicians (professional liars) should be fair game, as should be anyone else who engages in deception.

Allcanadian	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #23 on: 2013-10-08, 22:25:39 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	@Dumped Quote Some folks really do need protection from slander or libel but politicians (professional liars) should be fair game, as should be anyone else who engages in deception. There is an easier option and it depends on the context of the statement. A) This person is a liar and a cheat B) In my opinion, This person is a liar and a cheat In statement B we are not directly accusing anyone of anything we are simply stating our opinion. To my knowledge their is no court of Law in the free world which could fault anyone for having an opinion on anything nor expressing said opinion in public or otherwise. Which is kind of like the game show Jeopardy where the answer must be in the form of a question however in this case our statement is in the form of an opinion and nobody can be at fault for having an opinion, lol. Words are very much an art and can mean almost anything to anyone depending on their perspective. As you may know I like to be make ambiguous statements and I do this on purpose because life is ambiguous and almost nothing is ever as it seems. If ever we find it is not then were just not thinking on the correct level or not thinking at all, such is life. AC « Last Edit: 2013-10-09, 03:08:07 by allcanadian » --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

Allcanadian	Re: Defamation of Character - i.e. Libel « Reply #24 on: 2013-10-08, 22:46:39 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2735	@FarrahDay Quote 'Contrary to the truth'? The key word here Prof, is 'TRUTH'. Make numerous, unsubstantiated claims and provide no evidence to the contrary and who is the guilty party? And I don't always agree with Dumped, but here he puts it in a nutshell. "What is the truth when the truth is unacceptable" T.H.Moray The problem I see with the truth is that there are so many of them, two scientists of impeccable credentials enter a room and one has absolute proof global warming is a fact and the other absolute proof it is not... now what is the truth?. You see the truth must always digress to an opinion and the opinion a belief. Why I could lay out a number of facts to any number of people and get any number of different opinions on them in which case our truth isn't actually a truth at all it is simply our opinion isn't it?. You see the truth by definition cannot change, it is constant in a universal sense, so why is it every time we learn something the truth does change. In any case to retain my sanity I have come to the conclusion there is no black nor white only infinite shades of gray. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

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