Just thinking aloud - TPU

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Grumpy	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #75 on: 2013-10-09, 18:10:42 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	As I recall, SM did not comment on the spherics explanation. I would think he would have declared it false if it was.

EMdevices	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #76 on: 2013-12-07, 17:38:35 »
Hero Member Posts: 805	In the newer video, where Brian Collins talks extensively to the two visiting gentlemen, one from Zurich and the other a Japanese, he mentioned that the two toroids in the center of the TPU are used for tuning. Well, I've been meaning to calculate the approximate inductance of the toroid coils and finally did it. Here's my assumptions N = 30 turns (one side of the toroid coils, 60 total) Ro = 3.5 cm (outer radius) Ri = 1.5 cm (inner radius) h = 2 cm (height) u = 10 000 (the tape wound cores have high permeability, could even be 10 x larger) L = N^2 u A/ le, (where le is the average flux path length) I calculate an approximate value of L = 0.029 H Now let's calculate the inductance for a tank circuit needed to tune at 1 kHz C = 1/(w^2 L) , where w=2 pi f I calculate an approximate value of C = 0.88 uF (for f=180 Hz, the 3rd harmonic of the 60 Hz, C = 27 uF) So we see that these are not unreasonable values to tune into the low kHz, even into the Hz range of magnetic frequencies. EM ------------------------ Just thinking aloud - TPU 17 incher.jpg (128 kB, 705x550 - viewed 938 times.) « Last Edit: 2013-12-07, 18:14:32 by EMdevices »

BEP	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #77 on: 2013-12-07, 18:32:35 »
Group: Guest	I agree about their likely use in tuning. My opinion won't change on them being simple inductive devices, CMC or common toroidal core. IMO, they clearly are not. BTW... The visible connections of the low ESR electrolytic caps and associated devices indicates those caps are simple DC storage/filtering on the output of a simple rectifier. They are not part of an L/C tank.

Peterae	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #78 on: 2013-12-07, 18:38:04 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Magnetic tuner's during a burst of energy the iron ring's acoustic resonant frequency shifts, to maintain the output power the magnetic tuner is required to keep the main LC oscillator tuned just off dead centre. SM was either operating at f/2, f/4 or f/6 if the ring was iron then we would use 5130 m/s velocity of sound fr = VL/(pid ) if the TPU is 17 Inches diameter then that's 430mm fr = 5130/(pi .430) = 3.79751KHz he would probably be using f/6 giving an operating frequency of 632 Hz Probably a bit higher than that because the ring would be less than 17 inches. I guess he may have also used a multi turn ring if so the freq would be a lot less for instance a 3 turn ring would be fr=VL/(npid) fr = 5130/(3pi.430) = 1.265KHz f/6 = 210.9728Hz offcourse he could have used f/2 or f/4 as well giving higher frequencies and the smaller the TPU the high the operating freq. We know that the TPU works using beta decay right, there is no doubt about this. McFreey told us how to build the magnetic tuner also. EDIT If a sound analysis was done on the video then you would be able to work which fuel he used and what mode of acoustic resonance was used, theres no magic here there's enough energy in 1kg of iron or copper to make a town vanish, there's enough energy in 1g of copper or iron to make a row of houses vanish. and we know it works. The fuse needs to be in series with the ring « Last Edit: 2013-12-07, 20:33:34 by Peterae »

BEP	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #79 on: 2013-12-07, 20:38:24 »
Group: Guest	There was a sound analysis done. I have a copy somewhere and so should many of the long-timer TPU fans. Portions of the frequencies coincided with electron drift and acoustic velocity around the diameters and varied with each TPU type. If I remember correctly, the two strongest frequencies for all types was around 4800 Hz and 15.(??)kHz. From those, my determination was that the 'cores' were not iron but copper or some copper containing alloy with no more than a couple of turns per core. You can increase the acoustic and decrease the EM resonance of a simple conductive loop by wrapping the loop with segments of coils and driving those coils with control frequencies. I don't think iron was part of any TPU but do believe amplification and redirection of radial beta emissions was key.

Peterae	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #80 on: 2013-12-07, 21:42:50 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	I've been using copper and experimentally i am getting a speed of around 3500 m/s for 2.5mm^2 mains copper wire for my ring. We need to remember that hardness makes a difference as well. He will deliberately be working outside human ear pitches, in the low KHz it has been driving me nuts and probably deaf as well, so low Hz is my likely guess, although the small rings will be working probably 14-20 KHz at least then it would only drive the youngsters nuts. With copper i need a very sensitive microphone with added preamp to hear and characterize the ring, with iron i could place my microphone on the other side of the room it was so loud. « Last Edit: 2013-12-08, 09:09:42 by Peterae »

wings	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #81 on: 2013-12-07, 23:42:01 »
Group: Guest	interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kPOw0d0j4E

giantkiller	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #82 on: 2013-12-08, 02:11:45 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1593 Frequency equals matter...	He is using standard core size. I have always contended that a small mass is all that is needed. The small mass denotes a weak field which is easy to flex. This coincides with the Kunel patent. Not only did he use a weak force but then used the field in an air gap. What is interesting is the application of an orthogonally placed field. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDcuEDL6_XM[/youtube] --------------------------- http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/

GFT	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #83 on: 2014-07-16, 20:42:54 »
Group: Guest	Grumpy I want to thank you and Peter for the invite. There appears to be a lot of interesting topics. First off I am by no means familiar with the TPU but a quick read says it is an offshoot of the Emery coil is a newer version of Leedskalnin's perpetual motion holder. I've always contended that both are just LCR circuits, the coils are the inductor and the gap across the horseshoe magnet the spark gap. When the bar is removed this causes a change in the magnetic flux which induces a current which lights the light bulb. Thanks again for referencing my induction equations. For those not familiar with quaternion algebra ExB=qr/t may look completely algebraically incorrect. Let me explain The Lorentz force says E=(qr/t)xB Divide both sides by B and you get E/B=qr/t But in quaternion algebra 1/N=-N. That is, the reciprocal of a number can be designated as the negative of that number. Therefore Ex(-B)=qr/t Again, I thank you and Peter for the invite.

Grumpy	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #84 on: 2014-07-16, 21:15:05 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Hello GFT, Thanks for clarifying that equation. I am years away from understanding quaternions and any other high level mathematics. However, I have an eye for things that appear to be related. The infamous "TPU": 1. Is an electrical generator with no moving parts, that produces usable amounts of electric power (i.e over 700 volts and 20 amps in the large demonstration units. 2. Output is DC with some "hash". 3. When in operation they produce an inertial effect where they resist (slight) movement when held, and exhibit a washboard effect when slid on a table. 4. all version are ring-shaped (i.e. round), most look like a tall torus. 5. the device require no input, and are claimed to run continuously once initially started. 6. the devices have no ferrous core like a transformer does, and operate due to the orientations and interactions of the coils in the devices, and possibly with gravity or the earth's magnetic field, or no external fields. 7. the windings are purportedly: three loops layed flat, several segmented sections around each loop, a single winding around all segments and loops (toroidal winding) 8. output of early units would slowly go to zero when flipped over, later units with toroidal windings do not change if flipped over. 9. Output voltage goes down when the devices are powering a load. 10. The inventor DID confirm that the devices have a rotating field, but not what type of field it is. 11. the inventor also acknowledged that the "secret" was related to Tesla's radiant electricity experiments in which hv pulses are quenched abruptly. After several years, I've come to the conclusion that the devices exhibit GFT induction, rotating a time-dependent electric field (qr/t) perpendicular to a magnetic field, inside or around a collector wire(s) in which current is induced. I suspect that the voltage drop is due to the back-torque associated with homopolar generators.

GFT	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #85 on: 2014-07-16, 22:22:34 »
Group: Guest	I will definitely look further into this device. Of course the DC output caught my eye. To my knowledge the HPG is the only device that produces true DC current so I can see how you came to your conclusion about it being a type of HPG.

Grumpy	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #86 on: 2014-07-16, 22:24:26 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	a good place to start: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.0

Peterae	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #87 on: 2014-07-16, 22:36:17 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Hi GFT Welcome, good to have you as a member. Thanks Peter

gyula	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #88 on: 2014-07-16, 23:05:13 »
Group: Tech Wizard Hero Member Posts: 1194	Quote from: Grumpy on 2014-07-16, 21:15:05 ... After several years, I've come to the conclusion that the devices exhibit GFT induction, rotating a time-dependent electric field (qr/t) perpendicular to a magnetic field, inside or around a collector wire(s) in which current is induced. I suspect that the voltage drop is due to the back-torque associated with homopolar generators. Hi, Where can I read some more info on the 'GFT' induction? Thanks, Gyula

GFT	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #89 on: 2014-07-16, 23:33:40 »
Group: Guest	GFT induction is one of several current induction equations that is proposed in my book The Gyroscopic Force Theory. Starting with the Lorentz force you can manipulate E,B and qv algebraically using good old fashion high school math and according to my theory and faith in mathematics the physics must MUST obey the algebraic equations. Also E,B, and qv can also be considered as quaternions and they also follow the rules of quaternions. One of the basic principles of quaternion algebra is that 1/N=-N. That's why we can write Ex-B=qv as well as E/B=qv. The physics obeys both. I just responded to the post about rediscovering the TPU and I was pleasantly surprised to see a YouTube video demonstrating the principles of Ex-B=qv. The Gyroscopic Force Theory (bw version) can be purchased online at Lulu for about 30 bucks. I have purposely set it at the at cost price so that it can get into the hands of several people so that they might critique it. I don't make a cent from it. Unfortunately in order to meet the size requirements for printing bw books I was forced to severely edit a few chapters. Most of the theoretical examination of the HPG was edited out and can only be found in the color version. If you get a copy I'd be happy to know what you think.

GFT	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #90 on: 2014-07-16, 23:36:16 »
Group: Guest	Thanks. Good to be aboard.

Grumpy	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #91 on: 2014-07-17, 00:18:26 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	attached is a quick sketch of the wiring of the later version of TPU devices per the inventor Steven Mark. The interpretation of how the coils are powered is from a user named "spherics" that made several posts on another forum and then left and had never been heard from since. He claimed to know how the TPU's worked and to have been involved in their further development. He also released details of other ways to achieve the same goal. ------------------------ Just thinking aloud - TPU TPU wiring and interpretation.png (27.11 kB, 549x605 - viewed 714 times.)

ion	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #92 on: 2014-07-17, 13:50:37 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Great to have you aboard,! GFT Grumpy: Just wondering where you got that TPU drawing? Was it directly from Spherics or an interpretation by someone. Pulsing the coils sequentially is an interesting idea and conforms to the " squeezing and lifting of the hose". If you extend this idea to a very large number of segments, you can then wind up with a simple bifilar wrap with alternate HV pulsing. (lamp cord or speaker wire) This would create a large number of poles to the electrostatic motive force. Just a thought. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Smudge	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #93 on: 2014-07-17, 15:02:16 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1940	Here are some thoughts about the bunching of charges and the possibility that this can drag electrons along. It reminds me of magnetic "bunches" (think of this as a series of magnets all in line but with some separation between them). Now magnets are known to attract iron filings and this effect is usually taught as poles induced into the filings and unlike poles attract. That is not quite a correct interpretation, you get a polarization induced into the filings so each one becomes a tiny magnet, a magnetic dipole, and the only thing that creates force on a dipole is a non-uniform field. It is the highly non-uniform field near the poles of the magnet that does the attraction. If the induced dipole in the iron grain has a moment u lying along the x direction due to the magnetic field B also along the x direction, the force can be expressed by Fx=udB/dx, i.e. the force is the product of the field gradient and the dipole moment. If the dipole is not an induced one but is a permanent one (i.e. the grain as a tiny PM) then it can have a moment not aligned with the field, whence the force is Fx=ucostheta*dB/dx where theta is the angle between the dipole and the field. This is the basic force law for magnetic attraction or repulsion. Static fields can supply force via their field gradient. Now electrons have spin and as such are tiny magnets, they have a dipole moment related to the Bohr magneton. So electrons can be pulled along by a magnetic field gradient if their spin has the correct alignment (the theta angle above). In iron wire (or any conducting ferromagnetic wire) the conduction electron spins can be aligned along the wire by magnetizing the wire along its length. If we have a sequence of spaced magnetizing coils wound around our long iron wire we can create not only spin alignment but also a sequence of magnetized regions, like the bunches mentioned at the start of this post. Conduction electrons will be attracted toward the centre of each magnetized region, genuinely creating charge bunches. By driving the coils with pulses having some sequential timings we can cause the bunches to travel along the wire (that's like linear motor technology), and that will constitute a DC current. I think this could be a good candidate for the TPU if the single loop of wire shown in the image Grumpy has just posted is indeed iron wire or something similar. I'll try to elaborate on this idea with a sketch. Smudge

Grumpy	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #94 on: 2014-07-17, 15:04:09 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: ION on 2014-07-17, 13:50:37 Great to have you aboard,! GFT Grumpy: Just wondering where you got that TPU drawing? Was it directly from Spherics or an interpretation by someone. Pulsing the coils sequentially is an interesting idea and conforms to the " squeezing and lifting of the hose". If you extend this idea to a very large number of segments, you can then wind up with a simple bifilar wrap with alternate HV pulsing. (lamp cord or speaker wire) This would create a large number of poles to the electrostatic motive force. Just a thought. I sketched that drawing based on Steven Mark's comments to Lindsay Mannix on how the TPU's are wound: About the collector: It is three separate coils of multi strand copper wire laid one on top of the other, not interleaved. Three is important. You can do many things with three coils. You can run them in parallel, you can run two in series and one in parallel, or etc. You can run a separate frequency into each coil for better control on large power units if need be. The control wiring is vertically wound in several segments around each of the horizontal collector coils. Other control wires are wound around all of the horizontal collector coils together. Through the different control wire and coil wire arrangements you can keep complete control of the unit most of the time. However, you must have an emergency KILL switch. A way of cutting off all the control frequencies simultaneity. This kill switch must be, manual and also connected through a heat sensor buried within the collector coil. it should automatically stop the function of the unit before it self destructs on it's own. This is important for obvious reasons. Also the kill switch should also be connected to cut off whenever it measures over voltage. If that should ever happen, you would never have enough time to hit the kill switch before the inevitable explosion occurred. You know, it is very similar to the idea of a long garden hose. Picture a hose with water in it. If you pick up one end and move along the length of the hose you will move the water constantly along in the direction you are moving. You could also squeeze the hose in the direction to move the water along as well. And you could do both to control the movement of the water more precisely. You can think of the movement of water as the movement of electrons through the collector coils. I hope the things I share with you give you ideas about how my unit works. As you know, I am a great believer in understanding, not copying. Sincerely, SM.

ion	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #95 on: 2014-07-17, 15:42:48 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Thanks for clarifying that G From Smudge: Quote Now electrons have spin and as such are tiny magnets, they have a dipole moment related to the Bohr magneton. So electrons can be pulled along by a magnetic field gradient if their spin has the correct alignment (the theta angle above). In iron wire (or any conducting ferromagnetic wire) the conduction electron spins can be aligned along the wire by magnetizing the wire along its length. If we have a sequence of spaced magnetizing coils wound around our long iron wire we can create not only spin alignment but also a sequence of magnetized regions, like the bunches mentioned at the start of this post. Conduction electrons will be attracted toward the centre of each magnetized region, genuinely creating charge bunches. By driving the coils with pulses having some sequential timings we can cause the bunches to travel along the wire (that's like linear motor technology), and that will constitute a DC current. I think this could be a good candidate for the TPU if the single loop of wire shown in the image Grumpy has just posted is indeed iron wire or something similar. I'll try to elaborate on this idea with a sketch. This has also been my understanding for some time now, and verified when I saw the video of SM pre-orienting the dipoles in the ferrous wire with the magnet swiping. He did the magnet swiping of the ferrous wire very quickly with no explanation, and never drew attention to this. It gives away part of the secret,(which he was afraid of) so he later put bias windings over the horizontal loops so he would not call attention to the magnet swiping. A lot of folks have played with pulsing segments of coils wrapped over a horizontal loop by inducing a current into those segments to no avail. Very few have tried an electrostatic field sequentially applied to each each segment. The electrostatic field may produce the necessary constriction (squeezing of the hose) that induces movement, whereas induction in a coil segments creates also a BEMF when the field collapses that negates positive forward motion. Sequential pulsing of coils works in e.g.motors because of the mass, hence inertia of the rotor. Maybe electrons are quickly drawn back due to the collapsing field, they having much lower inertia, the dipole preferred orientation is reversed. Electrostatic squeezing could be the key. I could be completely wrong on this and very open to correction. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Smudge	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #96 on: 2014-07-17, 15:59:09 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1940	OK here is a quick sketch showing electron bunching in an iron wire. The potential difference induced by the electrons being dragged along via the magnetic gradient has a value close to 80 microvolts per Tesla of field change, so it is not very great. But it will certainly bunch up the electrons and AFAIK no one (except perhaps SM) has used this to any effect. Smudge ------------------------ Electron bunching.pdf (16.32 kB - downloaded 383 times.)

Smudge	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #97 on: 2014-07-17, 16:21:33 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1940	Quote from: ION on 2014-07-17, 15:42:48 Thanks for clarifying that G From Smudge: This has also been my understanding for some time now, and verified when I saw the video of SM pre-orienting the dipoles in the ferrous wire with the magnet swiping. He did the magnet swiping of the ferrous wire very quickly with no explanation, and never drew attention to this. It gives away part of the secret,(which he was afraid of) so he later put bias windings over the horizontal loops so he would not call attention to the magnet swiping. A lot of folks have played with pulsing segments of coils wrapped over a horizontal loop by inducing a current into those segments to no avail. Very few have tried an electrostatic field sequentially applied to each each segment. The electrostatic field may produce the necessary constriction (squeezing of the hose) that induces movement, whereas induction in a coil segments creates also a BEMF when the field collapses that negates positive forward motion. Sequential pulsing of coils works in e.g.motors because of the mass, hence inertia of the rotor. Maybe electrons are quickly drawn back due to the collapsing field, they having much lower inertia, the dipole preferred orientation is reversed. Electrostatic squeezing could be the key. I could be completely wrong on this and very open to correction. The problem with electrostatic fields is they will not penetrate a conductor, so you can't get bunching within a conductor that way. You can get bunching of surface charge but the linear charge density (Coulombs/m) is many orders of magnitude down compared with that of the volume charge. The magnetic gradient bunching has the equivalent effect of an electrostatic field inside the material and I have given the effective voltage that does the internal pulling. Although small it is acting within a highly conductive region so can IMO pull a significant charge bunch. I'll do some more calculations to get a handle on the magnitude of the charge bunch (linear charge density). I have written a number of papers attempting to use that gradient-pulling effect to get useful electricity, but the low voltage has always been the killer. Now I can see a way of moving those bunches at a much greater velocity than the usual drift velocity of electrons. It is dead easy to get the bunched magnetic field to move along at any velocity we like, so the charge bunch must move with it. That movement has nothing to do with mass. The collapsing longitudinal field (along the wire) as the bunch moves induces radially, not along the wire. The collapsing radial component of field induces torsionally, again not along the wire. I think this could really lead somewhere. Smudge

Smudge	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #98 on: 2014-07-17, 17:01:20 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1940	OK, here is another picture showing the movement of the electron bunches. This is all do-able both in the linear version shown but also in a circular racetrack version and the racetrack can have more than one turn. Smudge ------------------------ Electron bunching2.pdf (19.69 kB - downloaded 317 times.)

Grumpy	Re: Just thinking aloud - TPU « Reply #99 on: 2014-07-17, 17:28:58 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Imagine a homopolar generator using just fields and forces rather than a solid conductive rotor. Here is an excerpt from a lengthy conversation I had with GFT about this method of induction: The more interesting result is the GFT induction equation where tExB=qr or (E/omega)xB=qr where t=1/omega= 1/frequency. Frequency implies spin or precession. Again, I stress implies not proves. However if that is the case look at what the equation implies. If we apply a magnetic field perpendicularly to a spinning or precessing electric field then we induce the creation of qr or polarized charge. This sound very similar to what I predicted for the homopolar generator (see 11/04/2012 12:49 reply) VI:27:5 The Gravitational Effects on the HPG: Simulation of the Magnetic Field Through Precession. In that case we simulated a magnetic field by precessing the disc. In this case we simulate torque by rotating the field thus inducing qr, the electric dipole, as polarized charge. I actually found an article that supports this: http://phys.org/news113146441.html. Note that the article says “At first glance it is surprising that the spin can be rotated by an electric field. However, we know from the Theory of Relativity that a moving electron can ‘feel’ an electric field as though it were a magnetic field. Researchers …forced an electron to move through a rapidly-changing electric field…they showed that it was indeed possible to turn the spin of the electron by doing so.”

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