This posting is a big shout-out to Paul Lowrance:
I just can't keep reading you without responding. What a contorted discussion there is going on at OU! It's like scratching your nails across a dirty chalk board while listening to Yoko Ono singing. Ewwww! Somebody has to say something! Think of the children!!!
Has anyone considered using a relay like Steorn? It seems Steorn likes a few turns, ~ 37, maybe to lower the inductance so as to reduce resonance from the battery. So few turns = ultra low DC resistance. I'm sure there are relays, and then there are relays, right? All relays have ultra low on resistance, but some might have even lower resistance. Also, how about switching speed, as it should be very fast, probably faster than 100 microseconds.
100 microseconds! Where is your common sense dude?! 100 microseconds is 0.1 milliseconds. You ain't never gonna see a relay that switches that fast.
Quote Sean: "Faster in what way - clearly you seem to understand the requirements for current into in Orbo - so let me ask you this - a capacitor can provide a perfectly flat current output - right?"
I think Sean could not be clearer. Although IMO Sean has not clarified the reason. We know that the core has inductance, and we know that if you connect acapacitor to an inductor it resonates. Well, resonance is not a "flat current." A battery does not resonate no where near like a capacitor, as a battery tries to be a constant voltage source.
"we know that if you connect a capacitor to an inductor it resonates" - There you go Paul pushing yourself beyond your capabilities yet again. I have read similar statements by you dozens and dozens of times. You will only get resonance if the capacitor can discharge fully into the inductor so that all of the energy is then sitting in the inductor. Then the inductor will discharge back into the capacitor. So you are completely wrong, there is no resonance that takes place in this case. The capacitor will energize the inductor and incur a very small voltage drop before the circuit is switched off - no resonance.
Sean could not be more incorrect and he is blatantly attempting to weasel out of the capacitor test. So what if the capacitor experiences a marginal voltage drop when it energizes the inductor? How will that adversely affect the operation of the pulse motor? The answer is that it will not affect the operation of the pulse motor at all. Then of course the energy return from the pick-up coils is supposed to replenish the marginal voltage drop in the capacitor and Steorn claims that there is an excess energy return to boot, so you would need to have a resistor across the capacitor to drain off the excess energy and prevent the voltage on the capacitor from getting too high. There is a big problem though - common sense tells you that the energy return will be much less than the energy drain and the voltage on the capacitor will drop over time, and you wont even need the extra energy draining resistor. Don't be surprised if Steorn does everything in their power to prevent someone from swapping out the battery for a large capacitor.
Capacitors are very linear, and the energy is 0.5*C*V^2. The battery that Steorn uses is considered drained at 1.2V. Huge difference. It's well known that batteries are non-linear and do not resonant nearly as much as acapacitor.
Broli is making perfect sense when he suggests using an ultracapacitor. It doesn't necessarily have to be as huge as an ultracapacitor, but it doesn't really matter. In a matter of minutes the ultracapacitor would reveal if Steorn is a fraud or if they have changed the world.
"It's well known that batteries are non-linear and do not resonant nearly as much as acapacitor." - Batteries don't resonate at all, no mater what John Bedini wants you to believe.
A $50 bcap1500 ultracapacitor has 1500 farads and has as much energy as a 1500mAh battery. People would complain. Maybe if they had a smallercapacitor, say 100000 uF, not that many people would complain, but then again we have the resonance issue.
Poynt crunched some numbers recently for an ultracapacitor and a battery. The battery in his case stored about 18 times as much energy as the ultracapacitor. People that understand capacitors would not complain Paul. You are reducing yourself to a shill for Steorn. No resonance issue - go and learn something new about electronics. You can't keep on leveraging your limited knowledge about electronics and try talking the big talk to elevate your stature. Sometimes you are right in your leveraging, sometimes you fall flat on your face and make yourself look really really bad. In the latter case you are giving everyone else in the thread disinformation and misguiding them. It's time to stop overreaching past the limits of your knowledge and go back to basics and continue your own learning process. Try going on YouTube and watching the MIT electronics courses, they are the real thing.
The only reason people are saying to use a capacitor is because it does not hold a lot of energy like a battery. A 350F cap @ 1.3V holds a lot of energy.
Incorrect. Monitoring the capacitor voltage will tell you if the Steorn device is over unity or under unity in a matter of minutes. It has nothing to do with the amount of energy in the capacitor.
It would be interesting to do a side by side comparison of a 650 farad ultracap vs. a 650mAh rechargeable battery. I know from my detailed data logging of the bcap0650 (650 farads) that it has a crazy amount of dielectric absorption. That's also seen in electrolytic capacitors. So it's not really true that capacitorsvoltage is an accurate representation of anything until the capacitor has had a long time to rest. For the bcap0650, we're talking about up to ~ 1/2 day of rest time before you can accurately use thevoltage as something meaningful.
Wrong again Paul. You can ignore the dielectric absorption effects here, they do not affect the monitoring of the capacitor voltage in real time as the capacitor powers the Orbo. You are demonstrating that you don't really understand what dielectric absorption really means and are incorrectly applying it to the proposed test because you don't want the capacitor test to be done. You are so anxious to see Steorn succeed that you are putting on blinders and becoming a shill for Steorn.
You don't need to wait half a day. Your statements above are complete and utter nonsense. You can monitor the cap voltage in real time and in minutes Steorn's world will collapse all around them and there will be no more investment funds coming in to sustain the cash burn for another three years.
There you go Paul. Sorry but it was time to put you in your place. Just like a few pages back I rebutted some of your other points and I noticed that you never mentioned them again. Before you push the limits of your knowledge way past your true capabilities and make confusing and misleading statements that will be a huge disservice to others reading the thread I suggest you take a huge step back. Read some books or go to school so that you really know what you are talking about. The same thing applies to your buddy Gravityblock. I could rebut his points also and it would be something very similar.
You also need to swallow a huge humility pill for all your swagger about me when I was on OU. I can't guess the number of times that you laughed with Bill and said "Put MileHigh on ignore, he is clueless and knows nothing." That was all bullshit and I think deep down inside you knew it when you were saying it. I asked Bill how his Joule Thief circuit worked and he was unable to answer the question. I offered to explain it to him and he flatly refused.
These are the kinds of nonsensical shenanigans that everybody would be better off staying away from. The most legitimate and easy test that Steorn could do for their eOrbo with generator coils setup would be to swap out the battery for a large capacitor. If the capacitor voltage goes up then they have proved over unity. No amount of rebutting from Sean or you will detract from this simple fact.
MileHigh
Author
Topic: Steorns December 2009 Demo (Read 102191 times)
