Cool joule ss/ssg

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2024-11-28, 02:54:46
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Author Topic: Cool joule ss/ssg (Read 93258 times)

Itsu	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #50 on: 2013-05-05, 00:46:24 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	Hi Tinman, i toke another shot at your cool joule, now using 2 inductors (150uH) instead of the coils. I also used a breadboard and some excess wiring to increase the stray capacitance/inductance in the circuit. Transistor is a 2n2222a metal cased. But again the same behaviour was noticed, increase of the charging battery voltage and (more) decrease of the run battery :-( I will let it run overnight to see if things change for the better. Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl8O0_en8gA&feature=youtu.be Regards Itsu

Magluvin	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #51 on: 2013-05-05, 02:03:32 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Itsu on 2013-05-05, 00:46:24 Hi Tinman, i toke another shot at your cool joule, now using 2 inductors (150uH) instead of the coils. I also used a breadboard and some excess wiring to increase the stray capacitance/inductance in the circuit. Transistor is a 2n2222a metal cased. But again the same behaviour was noticed, increase of the charging battery voltage and (more) decrease of the run battery :-( I will let it run overnight to see if things change for the better. Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl8O0_en8gA&feature=youtu.be Regards Itsu It would be best to use 2 batteries of the same charge level to start. If the run battery is at its highest resting level, it is in a range of not decreasing in voltage level as much as a battery that is much lower when current is taken or given from them. A very 'similar' thing happens with caps, where the run cap is full and the charge cap is empty in a situation such as this. But with a different map of how it goes down. The cap to cap experiment will look like good results when getting toward where the caps are becoming equal in voltage because they are both higher than half of the initial run cap voltage. It gives you the feeling that you've got it! You will think that you have filled the charge cap more than half way and the run cap still has more than half to pump the charge cap to full and have some left seemingly. But the end result is that the run cap, still declining is now limited to emf and trying to pump up a more than half full cap that is above the run cap voltage. And even then, using 2 batteries of the same starting charge, the batteries should be switched over every so 'often'. Then after the testing period is over, leave the batteries to rest and check them to see if the voltage has gone up or down for both batteries. This will eliminate non linear conditions that seem like a good thing. Mags

BEP	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #52 on: 2013-05-05, 04:13:18 »
Group: Guest	tinman, On the next battery swap, please measure the voltage between either the emitter or base and the collector of that large metal can transistor you are using, with no batteries installed. I get ~300mV on one of my 2N3055's unless I apply some heat to it then the voltage goes up a bit.

PhysicsProf	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #53 on: 2013-05-05, 05:42:53 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3017	Good approach, Mags: Quote And even then, using 2 batteries of the same starting charge, the batteries should be switched over every so 'often'. Then after the testing period is over, leave the batteries to rest and check them to see if the voltage has gone up or down for both batteries. This will eliminate non linear conditions that seem like a good thing. Wink Mags This would be impressive, if the charge battery rose significantly higher than the SAME starting value of the two batteries, while the run batt dropped less...

stprue	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #54 on: 2013-05-05, 13:22:46 »
Full Member Posts: 209	Update My replication is on day 3. Light level looks the same. Run battery is at about 1.392 and the charge battery is at about 1.321. It will be interesting to see what happens when both batteries have equal charge.

EMdevices	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #55 on: 2013-05-05, 15:13:19 »
Hero Member Posts: 805	Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013-05-05, 04:13:18 tinman, On the next battery swap, please measure the voltage between either the emitter or base and the collector of that large metal can transistor you are using, with no batteries installed. I get ~300mV on one of my 2N3055's unless I apply some heat to it then the voltage goes up a bit. That's interesting, where is it coming from? Are you measuring in circuit or disconnected? Tinman Is it possible for you to measure the inductance of the coils? and also find the first frequency where the current goes to zero, so we can calculate the parallel capacitance of the coil? I hope you have a frequency generator. I'm trying to accurately model the circuit, and I have a sim that works better now, but I want to refine it. Thanks EM

EMdevices	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #56 on: 2013-05-05, 15:54:06 »
Hero Member Posts: 805	WW, I just measured an LED in sunlight, and I get close to 1 volt! I did not know they work in reverse, thanks for mentioning that. But there is a trick, since they don't have much capacitance or current, the mere fact of connecting the voltmeter probes reduces the voltage to 0.01 or less, but with a capacitor in parallel, when I connect the probes I see 1 volt and it starts to drop rapidly (cap is not electrolytic, and my digital voltmeter is not the best) So here's a fun challenge for everyone: build a self flashing LED with no batteries, just a capacitor to accumulate the charge and then dump it back through it in a quick higher current pulse. EM PS. I tried one of those clear white LEDs, in sunlight coming through my window, and I get over 2 volts on my oscilloscope. No capacitor. « Last Edit: 2013-05-05, 17:28:23 by EMdevices »

BEP	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #57 on: 2013-05-05, 19:39:14 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: EMdevices on 2013-05-05, 15:54:06 WW, I just measured an LED in sunlight, and I get close to 1 volt! I did not know they work in reverse, thanks for mentioning that. But there is a trick, since they don't have much capacitance or current, the mere fact of connecting the voltmeter probes reduces the voltage to 0.01 or less, but with a capacitor in parallel, when I connect the probes I see 1 volt and it starts to drop rapidly (cap is not electrolytic, and my digital voltmeter is not the best) So here's a fun challenge for everyone: build a self flashing LED with no batteries, just a capacitor to accumulate the charge and then dump it back through it in a quick higher current pulse. EM PS. I tried one of those clear white LEDs, in sunlight coming through my window, and I get over 2 volts on my oscilloscope. No capacitor. LEDs can't handle much load unless you series/parallel them. Then, you can power almost anything if you have the inkling to die of solder smoke. The UV and IR ones work just as well but not so well with visible light The 2N3055..... Any PN junction is a Seebeck generator when the heat energy flow is the correct direction. There was someone selling emergency power supplies to top your wood burning stove or kerosene lamp. (survivalist kook). You could charge your car battery with it or power a radio and small lamp. It was made with arrays of modified 2N3055's. Your challenge.... I wasn't able to find a source but all but the flashing part can be found in perpetual grave markers. No battery or solar cell but I'm sure it had a whopping super-cap.

Peterae	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #58 on: 2013-05-05, 20:26:10 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	EM I wonder what the efficiency of the LED is when receiving sunlight, if it's over 17% people have been buying the wrong devices to go on the roof I wonder how a 3watt or even a 20W, LED performs and most come with a nice Lens on top albeit a narrow angle

Itsu	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #59 on: 2013-05-05, 21:50:50 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4159	ok, after 24 hours of my last video, we now see the same behaviour as reported by tinman and slider. Run battery decrease of 62mV charge batt increase of 145mV But as ION already mentioned in the other threat: Quote Big error to compare battery voltages at two different points on the charge / discharge curve and think that it is a meaningful comparison of energy used / recovered. But its fun to see it happen, video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlC1z_i8_Lk&feature=youtu.be Regards Itsu

stprue	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #60 on: 2013-05-05, 21:52:44 »
Full Member Posts: 209	@ ww the 2N3055 is a NPN junction. ? think........PNP probably can also @EM this task is possible with enough 2N3055's. Take the cap of and you have an NPN that can utilize solar and heat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bUc8RqSFXs

tinman	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #61 on: 2013-05-05, 23:14:57 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: EMdevices on 2013-05-05, 15:13:19 That's interesting, where is it coming from? Are you measuring in circuit or disconnected? Tinman Is it possible for you to measure the inductance of the coils? and also find the first frequency where the current goes to zero, so we can calculate the parallel capacitance of the coil? I hope you have a frequency generator. I'm trying to accurately model the circuit, and I have a sim that works better now, but I want to refine it. Thanks EM Hi EM I just orded a new scope,benchtop power supply and SG on friday-all atten gear.The new lab(inside the warm house) is also under construction,so as soon as im up and running i will get those figures for you. It has come apparent that half blind measurements are no longer going to cut the cake.The one thing i still need to get is a benchtop DMM that has atleast a 5 decimal point reading-but that will take another month or two of saving lol.

PhysicsProf	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #62 on: 2013-05-06, 01:32:51 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3017	Quote from: tinman on 2013-05-05, 23:14:57 Hi EM I just orded a new scope,benchtop power supply and SG on friday-all atten gear.The new lab(inside the warm house) is also under construction,so as soon as im up and running i will get those figures for you. It has come apparent that half blind measurements are no longer going to cut the cake.The one thing i still need to get is a benchtop DMM that has atleast a 5 decimal point reading-but that will take another month or two of saving lol. Good -- better measuring instruments are always welcomed! In particular, what SG model did you get? I need a new SG myself... Thx, Tinman.

BEP	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #63 on: 2013-05-06, 02:09:59 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: stprue on 2013-05-05, 21:52:44 think........PNP probably can also think......PNPNPNPNPNPNPNPNPNPNPNPNPNPNPNPN........................ Then, all you need to worry about is where you connect the heat & cold sinks Quote this task is possible with enough 2N3055's. Take the cap of and you have an NPN that can utilize solar and heat. They aren't sensitive to visible light but are sensitive to IR even more when the body caps are removed. More current may be obtained by jumpering the base and emitter together. There are a couple of u-tubers who think they work like a visible light solar cell but are incorrect.

EMdevices	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #64 on: 2013-05-06, 02:19:48 »
Hero Member Posts: 805	Solar power flux is about 1000 watts/m^2, on a sunny day. For a tiny 3x3 mm LED area, the available power is about 10 mili watts. However, the semiconductor efficiency is low, lets say 10%, so I expect about 1 milli watt the most. I'm assembling my tiny blocking oscillator circuit to give this a try. we need to engineer these circuits for micro amp operation, because there is so little power coming in through the LED that a poor choice of capacitor, that has high leakage will prevent the voltage from building up to operational voltages ( 0.7 v or greater) EM

stprue	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #65 on: 2013-05-06, 12:59:17 »
Full Member Posts: 209	Only IR rings a bell. This would be better because they would work at night as well. Thanks for the info WW.

BEP	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #66 on: 2013-05-06, 18:12:35 »
Group: Guest	Be aware. Not all of these transistors work the same way. I imagine that sensitivity to IR could be a problem in some circuits. It was probably an unadvertised 'feature' for the cheaper parts.

stprue	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #67 on: 2013-05-07, 15:11:46 »
Full Member Posts: 209	Day 5 and my replication is still going strong. LED is bright. Voltage in both batteries is somewhere around 1.33v. Hopefully today I will see if they stay level with each other. @Tinman Any updates?

tinman	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #68 on: 2013-05-08, 09:02:30 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: stprue on 2013-05-07, 15:11:46 Day 5 and my replication is still going strong. LED is bright. Voltage in both batteries is somewhere around 1.33v. Hopefully today I will see if they stay level with each other. @Tinman Any updates? Just trying a few different circuit mod's at the moment,so will let you know how they go.The original one is still running away charging the original run battery from a battery that the original run battery itself charged.

stprue	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #69 on: 2013-05-08, 12:33:15 »
Full Member Posts: 209	@Tinman, In the original circuit, did both the run and charge batteries level out around the same voltage?

tinman	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #70 on: 2013-05-08, 13:52:13 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: stprue on 2013-05-08, 12:33:15 @Tinman, In the original circuit, did both the run and charge batteries level out around the same voltage? no-in all my circuits the charge battery rose higher than the run battery starting voltage

stprue	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #71 on: 2013-05-08, 13:59:26 »
Full Member Posts: 209	So are you occasional switching the run and charge batteries or just leaving them in their respective spots? IF thats the case did your run battery level off in voltage or is it still slowly draining?

tinman	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #72 on: 2013-05-08, 14:32:03 »
Group: Guest	The run battery will drain down eventually,as there is no return been given to the run battery.This is where you have to see if the charge battery received more charge than the run battery lost.I have now set up a resistor drain board.Here i place the charge battery on the resistive load,and document voltage drop over time.I can then plot a graph with these reading's,and compair them with a battery that was charged in a conventional way to the same starting voltage.

stprue	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #73 on: 2013-05-08, 14:41:47 »
Full Member Posts: 209	That seems like it is a good test. I look forward to your results.

stprue	Re: Cool joule ss/ssg « Reply #74 on: 2013-05-22, 17:31:41 »
Full Member Posts: 209	Day 20 still going. I have modified a few things at this point to see if I can recover more energy. I replaced the 1N4004 with a filter through capacitor and the 150ohm resistor with a 5K pot. I think it is adjusted to around 1.5K, which makes the LED more dim. I have also added a small solar cell from a calculator to the run battery to see if this can charge the battery up beyond what it uses on a daily basis. We will see.

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