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Author Topic: Colman_Gillespie Device  (Read 31003 times)
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I am posting the patent application for discussion here, and administrators may move it to the appropriate category.

I urge you all to study the patent application carefully, then make comments.

I have taken the liberty to draw an electrical schematic from the pictorial in the patent.

Notice the oscillating current through the mixture and oscillating magnetic field perpendicular to it. There may also be an oscillating electrostatic field formed by the proximity of antenna.

Some interesting points mentioned in the patent application:

The output is DC at approximately 100 to 110 volts at 10 amps for one hour.  (over 1 kW ) Can be re-excited.

Excitation frequency of 300 MHz.

Excitation energy needs only be used for 15 to 30 seconds, then can be removed as unit outputs the DC current and voltage.

Lots of heat / harmful radiation alpha, beta, gamma emitted.

Can explode if short circuited.

25% the weight of conventional accumulators of equivalent power. (assumed lead acid or alkaline batteries)

Note: Any comments on the use of Cobalt,Cadmium, and Phosphorus??

After one page at OU.com around 2007/8, new activity second page in 2013.  Video's have been posted at the end of last month by user "stivep" on youtube in four parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PMMK4KHXYU

« Last Edit: 2013-04-16, 03:22:52 by ION »


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Note: Any comments on the use of Cobalt,Cadmium, and Phosphorus??

All three are known for or have isotopes relating to absorption or emission. Half-lives of the more exotic and energetic isotopes are in the few hours range. 

From an unrelated read (I don't recall the details, yet) Cobalt and Cadmium can be excited into a state where radiation is a result. I believe Phosphorus responds to the same excitation by absorbing nuclear radiation. That excitation was high powered RF carrier in the upper UHF region.

One example given was when cave walls illuminated when spelunkers used their two-way radios.

This devices resembles early nuclear batteries for satellites.

I think the concept is valid but probably very dangerous.
   

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Looking at the electromagnet, it appears to be connected directly across the tube, and the field is at right angles to the oscillating current direction through the tube, at least during excitation.

After excitation, the electromagnets are now part of the DC output. and as such would require a very high resistance coil to withstand 100 volts DC.

This brings up some important questions regarding the use of these (electromagnet) coils, for if they have a high enough DC resistance to withstand 100 Volts, their inductance would  no longer result in any significant current flow during the excitation phase of 300 MHz, so the oscillating magnetic field would be very weak and probably totally absorbed by the eddy current losses in their metal pole pieces.

Stivep seems to have misinterpreted the patent and merely wrapped a coil around the tube and excited it with over 400 MHz, producing a magnetic field parallel to the tube current.

Stivep may also be misinterpreting his radiation meter. Often those units have plastic cases, and power RF can penetrate and perturb the meter readout circuit by localized RF heating of a transistor. This would cause the slow rise and fall of the meter that we see in the videos. It would be good to hear the "clicks" in the speaker to be sure there is radiation. I hope he can clear this up with positive proof of emitted radiation.
« Last Edit: 2013-04-16, 03:18:04 by ION »


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The inventor supposes that it's a nuclear reaction but all elements that we have show a chemical reaction.

  • The mixture is not Cd+P+Co powder but Co(NO3)2 6H2O + CdCl2 + 3Ca(PO3)2+10C. There is H2O so the mixture must be moisty and constitute an electrolyte.
  • The electrodes are Cu and Zn like in chemical cells.
  • The tube is discharged after only an hour's operation. This is far from what can be expected for with nuclear reactions.
  • The estimated weight represents approximately 25% of any known standard type of accumulator of the time of the patent. This is not so far from conventional means. Moreover since this time, we know that Cd has been efficiently used in batteries.
  • No quantified details are given about the radiations, and we have no indication about possible by-products obtained after the reaction which would have been a clear sign of nuclear reactions.

Imho the VHF current allied to the transverse magnetic field is triggering a chemical reaction, possibly by mechanical vibrations at 300Mhz and/or heating of the mixture and/or by a resistance change like in a Branly's coherer.
An energy per mass unit representing 4 times the known best results of the time of the inventor (1956) has been now exceeded by tens of times, with NiMh or lithium batteries. Sorry to remove enthusiasm for this invention...    :-\

   
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EX
The interest here is the result of some Tests  done by Stivep with a GM tube meter whilst chasing an NMR event ,tests where the meter was Screaming like a banchee and pegged off the scale.
All of this whilst playing with your aforementioned  "Electrolyte"
-----------.

While some battery salesmen might say "So what we do that stuff much better today".

I don't agree......
thx
Chet
PS
And yes it has been mentioned over there ,that these GM meters can be fooled too ,However at MUCH higher RF levels than in this case


« Last Edit: 2013-04-16, 09:43:28 by ramset »
   
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EX
The interest here is the result of some Tests  done by Stivep with a GM tube meter whilst chasing an NMR event ,tests where the meter was Screaming like a banchee and pegged off the scale.
All of this whilst playing with your aforementioned  "Electrolyte"
...

This thread being entitled "Colman_Gillespie Device" and beginning by "I am posting the patent application for discussion here", the subject is the patent and I was referring to the patent, not to replication attempts.

The Stivep's experiment is not this one described in the patent, especially due to a different magnetic field direction, as Ion said it.  And when one knows all the possible experimental artifacts coming from measurements made in HF fields with unsuited or unprotected apparatus by people unexperienced in the domain, we really need a fully description of the equipments and methods involved in the measurement (a video is not enough), otherwise the topic is not debatable, or vainly.

   
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I agree with Ex in regards to Wesley's replication reporting. There are too many reasons for the meter to swing without considering nuclear radiation. I suffered watching the youtube series and found nothing worth replicating. He is simply bent on finding free energy everywhere he looks.

Re: the patent

I believe the electromagnets are intended to aid in minimizing the stated byproducts(energetic particles), not as part of the generation process. As ION stated, the resistance needed to function with 100VDC applied forbids any usefulness of the coils at RF frequencies. The patent shows preference of an electromagnet. This may be due to some common permanent magnets of that era having a short life when exposed to certain nuclear radiation.
I suspect the function of these magnets to be the creation of a magnetic field that causes high velocity charged particles to be redirected to the shield for absorption.

As for cell reactivity, there should be some galvanic activity but it would not be great enough to provide the results claimed, even when water is considered.

Should a nuclear reaction be initiated, there would be no difference between this design and old nuclear batteries still floating out there in space as part of early satellites/probes except the half-life.

As far as usable life between excitations, as I stated before, there are known isotopes of Cobalt and Cadmium with periods in hours. Nuclear reactions need not be longer to be considered nuclear.
 
   
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WW
I had not watched any movies,just some claims ,as well as some very interesting comments at OU.com.
Sorry if my comments are not on topic ,I am traveling still, and reading thru a binocular and typing with a tooth pic,whilst juggling a hot cuppa Mogo
gets quite busy at times...[and distracting]

@Ex
On that note ,I would beg this observation,  If "The Stivep" is getting anything whatsoever from the involvement of these materials and these fields as
configured at such low input.
It should be examined a bit closer......

thx
Chet
« Last Edit: 2013-04-16, 13:38:05 by ramset »
   
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Thanks for all input thus far.

 My position is in two parts:

First, the measurements can be suspect as the meters can be fooled by high power RF fields. We need to hear those "clicks" slowly increasing in number, or watch the tube ionization strikes with a scope.

Second: Even if this device proved to be real through careful measurement, it would probably be very illegal to own one, as these type devices are strictly regulated.

The supposed power density IMHO would be far greater than batteries of the period or even today, if we just consider the weight of the expendable material. 1 Kw+ would be respectable for such a small tube of powder, and probably rule out standard chemical reactions, considering that it is supposedly able to be reactivated repeatedly, with each application of 15 to 30 seconds RF for up to 70 years. I don't think chemistry alone can do that (if again the applicants have been truthful).

Attached is a manual for a similar radiation meter as the one used by Wesley. Note the use of transistor and tube sockets, which are notorious for oxidation and which can produce rectification, in an RF field can be a "detector". Can't tell if the case is plastic or not, but the PC board is not shielded, and no local RF bypass caps on incoming wires from the ionization tube.


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I believe this could be approached from the LENR context. There are several possible isotopes or metastable states of Co and Cd that fit the half-life profile cited in the patent, though this is beyond my expertise and getting it wrong is not an option.

If I were to take anything from Stivep's wild enthusiasm as most thought provoking - it is the claim that Colman-Gillespie is Rossi's source of excess heat energy. That does at least connect a few dots, albeit pure speculation.

As far as the magnets, any NMR frequency is dependent on the specific strength of the static field. It is however not specified in (nor possible to determine within) the patent the specific field strength. Since empirical science is probably not a safe way to determine this, are there any suggestions on a modeling sw to help resolve these unknowns (from what is known) or approach validation?

   
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From schott key
Quote
As far as the magnets, any NMR frequency is dependent on the specific strength of the static field. It is however not specified in (nor possible to determine within) the patent the specific field strength.

As shown in the patent, the electromagnets are at first energized by the 300 MHz oscillation, so initially there is no static field. It is only until DC current through the tube builds that a static field will be created by the electromagnets. I see no rectifiers in series with the electromagnet coil and oscillating frequency source.

This part is still a puzzle to be unraveled. It could be that the patent application is a simplification of some lab setup whereby DC was used on the electromagnet to create a static magnetic field for NMR.

 It could also be that there is something to be gained by oscillating the current in the vertical electromagnet windings, hence a field reversal at the same rate as the current reversal in the device tube during excitation.

Too many unknowns for such a simple device.


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100 volts at 10 amps is not yor typical atomic battery, which would be at much higher voltage and lower current.

Antenna 28 replace antenna 21 if provided.  Power is take off at either pair.

The capacitor is lead and can be in the base of the unit.  the emissions must affect a capacitor made from other materials.

Do the electromagnets facilitate the reaction or the resulting current?  They are only in the middle and not the full length of the tube, and they are curved like a reflector.  He states that the magnet controls the alpha and beta emission.

The transmitter is powered from betteries or mains, not the unit.  (15 to 30 seconds required per "cycle").  So, the magnets provide no field until there is an output from the device.   So, you should get a reaction without the magnets, and the magnets appear to be able to maintain the action for 1 hour.  Perhaps it "slowly winds down".

The galvanic materials at the ends imply that the middle materials perform some sort of electrolytic action, that is not exhausted chemically.

Could you maintain the 300 MHz field, or pulse it at some rate to keep the device generating continuously?  If 30 seconds excites for 1 hour, does a short pulse excite for a second?  If so, keep pulsing and the device keeps generating.

Heat is generated during the excitation period of 1 hour.




   
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...
and probably rule out standard chemical reactions, considering that it is supposedly able to be reactivated repeatedly, with each application of 15 to 30 seconds RF for up to 70 years
...

Sorry to have missed this key point in my previous reply!   :-[

Quote
Second: Even if this device proved to be real through careful measurement, it would probably be very illegal to own one, as these type devices are strictly regulated.

But we won't hesitate to take risks as Marie Curie   ;)

« Last Edit: 2013-04-17, 10:38:47 by exnihiloest »
   
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@ ION:
"As shown in the patent, the electromagnets are at first energized by the 300 MHz oscillation, so initially there is no static field. It is only until DC current through the tube builds that a static field will be created by the electromagnets."

@Grumpy:
"So, the magnets provide no field until there is an output from the device.   So, you should get a reaction without the magnets…"

Thank you ION and Grumpy - indeed…nice catch. Conclusion: The process bootstrap does NOT require a static field as in NMR.

@exn:
"But we won't hesitate to take risks as Marie Curie   "

Indeed, though LENR can be made safely by simple means - well shielded short half-life or metastable reactions.

So..Whose first with a laboratory controlled validation and more specifics on chemical mix, activation RF power/frequency, and reaction data ???
   

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Investigation of the materials used may yield another way to achieve the same results.
   
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Hey Mary [@EX}

Google Ken Shoulders Charge Clusters
before you climb up on that "Martyr" cross.............

Thx
Chet
« Last Edit: 2013-04-18, 15:14:36 by ramset »
   
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Investigation of the materials used may yield another way to achieve the same results.

I agree, there needs to be a thorough investigations regarding why these specific materials were chosen. This will put some light on operational mechanism and other possible combinations. I have not the expertise to do this.

I am surprised at the silence of PhysicsProf on this subject, as I would think this is his area of past expertise.


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  I would appreciate answers to questions such as I've asked also at EF:
Quote

How do they (any of the researchers in this area) MEASURE the beta / gamma/ neutron emissions? Do they just use dosimeters or Geiger counters, or do they actually measure the energy SPECTRA of the emitted particles? (The latter will give much more information than a dosimeter or Geiger counter can do.)



   

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EX mentioned above, that the mixture is:

The mixture is not Cd+P+Co powder but Co(NO3)2 6H2O + CdCl2 + 3Ca(PO3)2+10C.
The electrodes are Cu and Zn like in chemical cells.

================================================
Co(NO3)2 6H2O
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt(II)_nitrate
http://www.webqc.org/molecular-weight-of-Co(NO3)2*6H2O.html

Cobalt(II) nitrate hexahydrate
Used to make cobalt pigments, invisible inks, catalysts, and vitamin B12 supplements, and for decorating stoneware and porcelain;

Cobalt nitrate, 10026-22-9, Co(NO3)2 ∙ 6H2O, MW 291.032 are reddish-brown crystals, deliquescent in moist air.
Cobalt nitrate has a melting point of 56 °C and decomposes at 75 °C.
Cobaltous nitrate is used in cobalt pigments, catalysts, additive to soils and animal feeds, vitamin preparations, hair dyes and porcelain decoration.
Cobalt nitrate is used for black patinas when applied hot.
Synonyms : Cobaltous nitrate, Cobalt (II) nitrate hexahydrate
 

==============================================
CdCl2
Cadmium chloride

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_chloride

==============================================
3Ca(PO3)2+10C
CALCIUM METAPHOSPHATE, Ca(PO3)2
"C" is carbon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_phosphate

==============================================

all have a central atom surrounded by ions
   
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Grumpy, Ex and others have pointed out the compounds used in the Colman Gillespie device per the patent.

Let us now look at the actual isotopes of the main elements and their half life's.

Isotopes of Cobalt:

Naturally occurring cobalt (Co) is composed of 1 stable isotope, 59Co. 28 radioisotopes have been characterized with the most stable being 60Co with a half-life of 5.2714 years, 57Co with a half-life of 271.79 days, 56Co with a half-life of 77.27 days, and 58Co with a half-life of 70.86 days. All of the remaining radioactive isotopes have half-lives that are less than 18 hours and the majority of these have half-lives that are less than 1 second. This element also has 11 meta states, all of which have half-lives less than 15 minutes.

The isotopes of cobalt range in atomic weight from 47Co to 75Co. The primary decay mode for isotopes with atomic mass unit values less than that of the most abundant stable isotope, 59Co, is electron capture and the primary mode of decay for those of greater than 59 atomic mass units is beta decay. The primary decay products before 59Co are iron isotopes and the primary products after are nickel isotopes.

Standard atomic mass: 58.933195(5) u

Isotopes of Cadmium:

Naturally occurring cadmium (Cd) is composed of 8 isotopes. For two of them, natural radioactivity was observed, and three others are predicted to be radioactive but their decays were never observed, due to extremely long half-life times. The two natural radioactive isotopes are 113Cd (beta decay, half-life is 7.7 × 1015 years) and 116Cd (two-neutrino double beta decay, half-life is 2.9 × 1019 years). The other three are 106Cd, 108Cd (double electron capture), and 114Cd (double beta decay); only lower limits on their half-life times have been set. At least three isotopes - 110Cd, 111Cd, and 112Cd - are absolutely stable (except, theoretically, to spontaneous fission). Among the isotopes absent in the natural cadmium, the most long-lived are 109Cd with a half-life of 462.6 days, and 115Cd with a half-life of 53.46 hours. All of the remaining radioactive isotopes have half-lives that are less than 2.5 hours and the majority of these have half-lives that are less than 5 minutes. This element also has 8 known meta states with the most stable being 113mCd (t½ 14.1 years), 115mCd (t½ 44.6 days) and 117mCd (t½ 3.36 hours).

The known isotopes of cadmium range in atomic mass from 94.950 u (95Cd) to 131.946 u (132Cd). The primary decay mode before the second most abundant stable isotope, 112Cd, is electron capture and the primary modes after are beta emission and electron capture. The primary decay product before 112Cd is element 47 (silver) and the primary product after is element 49 (indium).
Standard atomic mass: 112.411_ 8_ u

Isotopes of Phosphorus:

Although phosphorus (P) has 23 isotopes from 24P to 46P, only one of these isotopes is stable 31P; as such, it is considered a monoisotopic element. The longest-lived radioactive isotopes are 33P with a half-life of 25.34 days and 32P with a half-life of 14.263 days. All other have half-lives under 2.5 minutes, most under a second. The least stable is 25P with a half-life shorter than 30 nanoseconds—the half-life of 24P is unknown.

Standard atomic mass: 30.973762(2) u

Radioactive isotopes of phosphorus include:

    32P; a beta-emitter (1.71 MeV) with a half-life of 14.3 days which is used routinely in life-science laboratories, primarily to produce radiolabeled DNA and RNA probe, e.g. for use in Northern blots or Southern blots. Because the high energy beta particles produced penetrate skin and corneas, and because any 32P ingested, inhaled, or absorbed is readily incorporated into bone and nucleic acids, OSHA requires that a lab coat, disposable gloves, and safety glasses or goggles be worn when working with 32P, and that working directly over an open container be avoided in order to protect the eyes.[citation needed] Monitoring personal, clothing, and surface contamination is also required. In addition, due to the high energy of the beta particles, shielding this radiation with the normally used dense materials (e.g. lead), gives rise to secondary emission of X-rays via a process known as Bremsstrahlung, meaning braking radiation. Therefore shielding must be accomplished with low density materials, e.g. Plexiglas, Lucite, plastic, wood, or water.
    33P; a beta-emitter (0.25 MeV) with a half-life of 25.4 days. It is used in life-science laboratories in applications in which lower energy beta emissions are advantageous such as DNA sequencing. Phosphorus-33 can be used to label nucleotides. It is less energetic than 32P, giving a better resolution. A disadvantage is its higher cost compared to 32P, as most of the bombarded 31P will have acquired only one neutron, while only some will have acquired two or more. Its maximum specific activity is 5118 Ci/mol.

=============================================================================

Food for thought (cut and pasted from web search):
Quote
"Metastable isomers can be produced through nuclear fusion or other nuclear reactions. A nucleus thus produced generally starts its existence in an excited state that de-excites through the emission of one or more gamma rays (or, equivalently, conversion electrons), usually in a time far shorter than a picosecond. However, sometimes it happens that the de-excitation does not proceed rapidly all the way to the nuclear ground state. This usually occurs because of the formation of an intermediate excited state with a spin far different from that of the ground state. Gamma-ray emission is far slower (is "hindered") if the spin of the post-emission state is very different from that of the emitting state, particularly if the excitation energy is low, than if the two states are of similar spin. The excited state in this situation is therefore a good candidate to be metastable, if there are no other states of intermediate spin with excitation energies less than that of the metastable state.Metastable isomers of a particular isotope are usually designated with an "m" (or, in the case of isotopes with more than one isomer, m2, m3, and so on). This designation is usually placed after the atomic symbol and number of the atom (e.g., Co-58m), but is sometimes placed as a superscript before (e.g., 58mCo). Increasing indices, m, m2, etc. correlate with increasing levels of excitation energy stored in each of the isomeric states (e.g., Hf-177m2 or 177m2Hf).A different kind of metastable nuclear state (isomer) is the fission isomer or shape isomer. Most actinide nuclei, in their ground states, are not spherical, but rather spheroidal — specifically, prolate, with an axis of symmetry longer than the other axes (similar to an American football or rugby ball, although with a less pronounced departure from spherical symmetry). In some of these, quantum-mechanical states can exist in which the distribution of protons and neutrons is farther yet from spherical (in fact, about as non-spherical as an American football), so much so that de-excitation to the nuclear ground state is strongly hindered. In general these states either de-excite to the ground state (albeit far more slowly than a "usual" excited state) or undergo spontaneous fission with half lives of the order of nanoseconds or microseconds— a very short time, but many orders of magnitude longer than the half life of a more usual nuclear excited state."

"Metastable isomers may also decay by internal conversion — a process in which the energy of nuclear de-excitation is not emitted as a gamma ray, but instead used to accelerate one of the inner electrons of the atom, so that it leaves at high speed and energy. This process is only possible because inner atomic electrons penetrate the nucleus, where they are subject to the intense electric fields which result when the protons of the nucleus re-arrange in a different way. In nuclei which are far from stability in energy, still other decay modes are known."

Anyone guess if this is relevant?
« Last Edit: 2013-04-19, 19:11:57 by ION »


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I don't think a conventional nuclear reaction would produce the high current and low voltage that this device is claimed to produce. 

Whne I have time, I'll see what I can find on the ion in each of those compounds.
   
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Thanks for the research, ION.

It sounds like most of the chemical components may 'fizz' when shaken correctly. Shaken together (at UHF?) may be cause for the excitation required.

Interesting about lead shielding being a problem for some. Perhaps, the lead shield is there to act as a catalyst vs. protection?
   
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Thanks for the research, ION.

It sounds like most of the chemical components may 'fizz' when shaken correctly. Shaken together (at UHF?) may be cause for the excitation required.

Interesting about lead shielding being a problem for some. Perhaps, the lead shield is there to act as a catalyst vs. protection?

Welcome, glad someone read it.

I like the "fizz" idea. Now it would not be difficult to build a 25 Watt RF oscillator tunable in the 300 MHz range.

And yes, after reading about the "bremsstrahlung" those were my thoughts exactly on the lead shield, although it is touted as a protection shield in the patent app.

G said:
Quote
I don't think a conventional nuclear reaction would produce the high current and low voltage that this device is claimed to produce. 

Does not have to be conventional, there may be other possibilities.


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Page 5, line 65 of the patent app says something very interesting:

Quote
The current which is given off by the tube during it's discharge is in the form of half waved direct current.

I can understand that it might be direct current, but half waved? At what frequency? If at the excitation frequency, what is the nature of the output when the excitation is removed? Why would it continue to be half waved? High energy pulses of one polarity would  seem more likely.


On a related topic is a paper that might be of interest:
« Last Edit: 2013-04-21, 01:06:54 by ION »


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