Potential Energy

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2024-11-27, 10:00:19
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Author Topic: Potential Energy (Read 23690 times)

bte	Re: Potential Energy « Reply #25 on: 2013-01-26, 17:17:58 »
Full Member Posts: 208	Thanks for clearing this up guys. Any good books on this subject?

Allcanadian	Re: Potential Energy « Reply #26 on: 2013-01-26, 17:58:58 »
Hero Member Posts: 2735	@GK Quote Starting at 23:50 we see the agitation or action at a distance where a new electron is added and the whole valence accumulation adjusts like a ringing bell or ripples in water. As well if each electron when jumping from atom to atom could cause a wave like disturbance or oscillation then the whole of the object could oscillate not unlike the phenomena of the Barkhausen effect. If these fundamental oscillations then coupled to external EM oscillations then the external interference pattern could easily be interpreted as a "field". It would be nice to have a rational explanation for the primary fields instead of magical particles popping in and out of existence from other parallel universes. In fact if this were the case then most of the complex phenomena we see could be explained in a simple manner that actually made sense. This is the model I am working on however I can't see it ever being accepted because it may be too easy and realistic, we can't have just anybody understanding everything or all those scientists would be out of work. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

Centraflow	Re: Potential Energy « Reply #27 on: 2013-01-26, 18:18:17 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Quote from: exnihiloest on 2013-01-26, 16:46:07 That's false. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbs_free_energy Disagree Gibb's free energy is the "available" energy and not the actual energy without change it is not until you change it that it developes the energy Quote the greatest amount of mechanical work which can be obtained from a given quantity of a certain substance in a given initial state, without increasing its total volume or allowing heat to pass to or from external bodies, except such as at the close of the processes are left in their initial condition.[3] Regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Centraflow	Re: Potential Energy « Reply #28 on: 2013-01-26, 18:29:43 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	@ Giantkiller Nice video Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

exnihiloest	Re: Potential Energy « Reply #29 on: 2013-01-26, 20:26:30 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Centraflow on 2013-01-26, 18:18:17 ... Gibb's free energy is the "available" energy and not the actual energy without change it is not until you change it that it developes the energy ... That's always true. "Potential" means that there is nothing until the realization of the potentiality! But this potentiality is as a reservoir. That's why what you said is false: "the atoms are stable there is NO energy, NO potential difference, when it is unstable we have energy". E=Mc². The fact that you don't use it, doesn't mean "NO energy". E=Mc² is a potential energy of matter that you can extract by disintegrating it. You can get energy at a given time, only because it was stored somewhere in some form.

Centraflow	Re: Potential Energy « Reply #30 on: 2013-01-26, 20:59:55 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Quote from: exnihiloest on 2013-01-26, 20:26:30 That's always true. "Potential" means that there is nothing until the realization of the potentiality! But this potentiality is as a reservoir. That's why what you said is false: "the atoms are stable there is NO energy, NO potential difference, when it is unstable we have energy". E=Mc². The fact that you don't use it, doesn't mean "NO energy". E=Mc² is a potential energy of matter that you can extract by disintegrating it. You can get energy at a given time, only because it was stored somewhere in some form. OK hands up we are splitting words here and I did write it badly, usually a problem of mine , I should have said no energy materialised until an event takes place, it's a store of energy but sleeping until we can unbalance it and not that there is no energy what an idiot I am. Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

tinman	Re: Potential Energy « Reply #31 on: 2013-01-27, 01:36:37 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: exnihiloest on 2013-01-26, 11:10:17 That is why Armagdn03's post makes good sense while the question of "potential maximum amount of energy be per unit of space" means nothing: there is no absolute potential. A "potential difference" of what? Energy? Voltage? What are you talking about? A charge is not a potential. You may even have separated positive and negative charges and no potential difference between them. "Potential" means "capable of being but not yet in existence". A "potential difference" is not a physical object that we could pretend to be in motion. SO are we after the meaning of potential or potential difference?Two different meaning's. Potential is as you say,but potential difference is simply this :potential difference is the difference in energy of two location. The atom has an electrical,chemical and magnetic potential difference. That potential difference is there to use,when you can work out how to use it without destroying the atom itself. Only just now have they worked out how to split the atom and then put it back together. And there is no pretending about motion,everything is in motion.

exnihiloest	Re: Potential Energy « Reply #32 on: 2013-01-27, 13:48:58 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Centraflow on 2013-01-26, 20:59:55 OK hands up we are splitting words here and I did write it badly, usually a problem of mine , I should have said no energy materialised until an event takes place, it's a store of energy but sleeping until we can unbalance it and not that there is no energy what an idiot I am. Mike Not a question of splitting words, Mike. This thread is about "potential energy" and it's indispensable to correctly handle the concept. When you know that "potential" means nothing real, the underlying implication is that "potential energy" is not a physical reality, unlike the electron or the electric field. It's just our idea of a condition, a state of physical objects, that could possibly produce a work, or not at all if we have not the means to use it. I often hear "free energy is real because there is energy everywhere" and I always think that this statement is particularly stupid: the problem is not that of the potentiality of the "everywhere" energy that nobody denies, but of its transformation into usable work. It's a truism to say it, however it is obviously not understood by those saying "free energy is real because there is energy everywhere".

exnihiloest	Re: Potential Energy « Reply #33 on: 2013-01-27, 14:17:15 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: tinman on 2013-01-27, 01:36:37 ... The atom has an electrical,chemical and magnetic potential difference. That potential difference is there to use,when you can work out how to use it without destroying the atom itself. ... These are banalities. There are thousands of transformations from a state of matter to another one that could provide a usable work, see the condensed matter physics. The first question is how to do it. But there is another one. A work done by a change from potential A to potential B is the same as from potential B to potential A (except the sign). Therefore the process can't be self-looped. So after having answer the question of how to get work by changing from potential A to potential B, the second question is either 'how the potential A could be restored from the potential B in order to repeat the cycle' (for instance input from the ZPE, the heat and so on...) or 'what potential couple A, B could be used at will without having to care the inverse transformation' (because in very in large quantities).

tinman	Re: Potential Energy « Reply #34 on: 2013-01-27, 14:34:07 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: exnihiloest on 2013-01-27, 14:17:15 These are banalities. There are thousands of transformations from a state of matter to another one that could provide a usable work, see the condensed matter physics. The first question is how to do it. But there is another one. A work done by a change from potential A to potential B is the same as from potential B to potential A (except the sign). Therefore the process can't be self-looped. So after having answer the question of how to get work by changing from potential A to potential B, the second question is either 'how the potential A could be restored from the potential B in order to repeat the cycle' (for instance input from the ZPE, the heat and so on...) or 'what potential couple A, B could be used at will without having to care the inverse transformation' (because in very in large quantities). I think if we could answer the(how to do it bit)then we would have a way to use that potential. But you are right-that is the hard bit. But i guess that if we were the ones to tell others 100 years ago that we could turn the suns rays into electricity,we would have been seen as wacko's. But the solar pannel is now a main streem free energy device-in the sence that we dont have to pay for the energy that it can deliver. I guess it is only a matter of time until we can convert this free energy into a usable energy.

Centraflow	Re: Potential Energy « Reply #35 on: 2013-01-27, 15:01:04 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Quote from: exnihiloest on 2013-01-27, 13:48:58 Not a question of splitting words, Mike. This thread is about "potential energy" and it's indispensable to correctly handle the concept. When you know that "potential" means nothing real, the underlying implication is that "potential energy" is not a physical reality, unlike the electron or the electric field. It's just our idea of a condition, a state of physical objects, that could possibly produce a work, or not at all if we have not the means to use it. I often hear "free energy is real because there is energy everywhere" and I always think that this statement is particularly stupid: the problem is not that of the potentiality of the "everywhere" energy that nobody denies, but of its transformation into usable work. It's a truism to say it, however it is obviously not understood by those saying "free energy is real because there is energy everywhere". Exactly on what you have written I am 100%. Of course there is energy everywhere, it is like the phrase, water water everywhere and not a drop to drink, I for one don't have much of an ego, the ones that do are the ones who normally try to shoot me down. I am now giving information of many years of work to a small group who are replicating and finding there way with the replications and opening their minds to what they see. What I give is the basics, no claims, the claims they can make themselves afterwards, what is in the future for me "been there done that and it is my living at the moment on an industrial scale" but they are in the learning curve and it is not an easy one to learn. Involved in my work is chemistry and physics as well as electronics to make the thing run, but I am an industrial engineer and my knowledge has a limit in each but is gold when combined Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

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