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Author Topic: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator  (Read 236967 times)
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #275 on: 2018-11-28, 19:20:27 »

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Good evening gentleman.

May I ask you to look back to here?

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1616.msg46492#msg46492

I'm convinced that DMC probably used " proprietary " made coils as the similarities between the patent drawings and the " Davis " book are uncanny.

There's been a lot of discussion about both the cores ( soft Iron wires ) and the Copper wire itself, probably Silk insulated IMO.

It would be great if we could get access to see an original set of Davis coils wouldn't it? Must be some in a museum somewhere in the states?

Cheers Graham.


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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #276 on: 2018-11-28, 20:33:49 »

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All of the known facts indicate that there may be a mechanism as work that has gone undiscovered, or merely unpublished, by main stream scientist who appear in our text books.

My guess is that the location and orientation of the two coils is important. 

Considering the mechanism as a unidirectional inductive pump, the coils should be laid horizontal so as to couple together at the ends. 

The coil orientation should allow for the magnetic field to be opposite in the cores so that N it to S at both ends.

The patent has specific instructions for starting the coils and utilizing the energy without halting the effect.

I'd try an arrangement with the field rotating CCW in the northern hemisphere first.  See if you can get it started first and then see if it builds up.

Some things that may be related are Aspden's virtual intertia effect, Hans Coler device, Hendershot device.  TPU/AVEC uses a rotating electric field but it should have a magnetic analog.
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #277 on: 2018-11-28, 20:48:45 »

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Quote from: partzman on 2018-11-28, 15:57:33
Smudge,

Since the mmf for the rings is 70 ampere turns, could we replace the single turn with 70 turns and drive the "shorts" with the 1 amp main coil current?

Pm
No, the whole point is the current in the short is 90  degrees phase shifted. (or some phase) from the main current.  It is that phase shift that gives the anomalous effect.
Smudge
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #278 on: 2018-11-28, 21:06:31 »

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Quote from: ion on 2018-11-28, 16:14:01
Dear Smudge;

Can you describe why using gapped "C" cores would be better than the 3' to 4' straight cores used by Cook and also why the shorted turns will be better placed at the center of the cores rather than the ends, as you believe Cook did.
I was just trying different things and I felt that it should be possible to use just one shorted coil per solenoid.  Cook's scheme may be better,  time will tell.
Quote
I'm enjoying your progression of ideas on this topic, and wonder what a FEMM model of the actual Cook coils would produce.
I will do that but of course FEMM can't do the dynamics.  We have to do various runs then stitch the data together.  It is likely that my 90 degree shift is not quite true but there has to be some shift.
Quote
Also, what gain would be required to allow oscillation with 90 or so degrees of phase shift. My gut feel is that with approx one order of magnitude reduction in gain you could at best get a damped oscillation but not a steadily increasing oscillation as the coils mirror current to each other. How did you reason this out?
Not sure what you mean by gain.  There is no gain as such, just an unusual phase shift that results in a voltage induced into the main coil that aids the current, and provided that voltage exceeds the drop due to coil resistance then it should oscillate.

Smudge
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #279 on: 2018-11-28, 22:07:15 »
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Smudge:
you said
Quote
Not sure what you mean by gain.  There is no gain as such, just an unusual phase shift that results in a voltage induced into the main coil that aids the current, and provided that voltage exceeds the drop due to coil resistance then it should oscillate.

Okay if I understand correctly, it is the added current that aids input current. I was wrongly thinking in terms of voltage gain.

So agreed.


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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #280 on: 2018-11-29, 13:51:15 »
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looking into "Pure" iron wire ?
hopefully wire which could be period correct from Cook's time

Grum mentioned soft iron Florist tie wire
I will see about getting some specs on the wires available today .

https://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/concrete-cement-masonry/concrete-accessories/rebar-tie-wire-roll-340-ft/1831060/p-1444439572991.htm

hard to find specs from early wiring suppliers ,in this case Davis company  [Grum's images attached]

I'll be making some calls today ....any help appreciated
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #281 on: 2018-11-29, 14:30:40 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Regarding iron wire, this is a good document with an overview of the nuances of manufacturing iron wire for the music instruments of the early period, an interesting read:

http://fortepianos.com/iron%20wire.pdf

Pure iron and also CuNi (Constantan) can be had from some suppliers e.g:

https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Pure_Iron_Wire.html

Bailing (Baling) wire of the period may also be interesting, I remember researching this some time ago.

Still looking for more info



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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #282 on: 2018-11-29, 14:59:32 »
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Quote from: Smudge on 2018-11-28, 20:48:45
No, the whole point is the current in the short is 90  degrees phase shifted. (or some phase) from the main current.  It is that phase shift that gives the anomalous effect.
Smudge

OK, so a 180 degree phase shift would be too much in the "short" coils at the ends of the main coils I assume.  I'm obviously missing how the bucking flux at the ends can increase the overall main coil flux.

I think I will attempt to simulate the device with GC models which would allow long solenoids to be made and analyzed with various core materials.  The shorted end turns could then be modeled with varying currents, phases, and couplings.

Pm
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #283 on: 2018-11-29, 15:05:06 »
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Quote from: Chet K on 2018-11-29, 13:51:15
looking into "Pure" iron wire ?
hopefully wire which could be period correct from Cook's time

Grum mentioned soft iron Florist tie wire
I will see about getting some specs on the wires available today .

https://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/concrete-cement-masonry/concrete-accessories/rebar-tie-wire-roll-340-ft/1831060/p-1444439572991.htm

hard to find specs from early wiring suppliers ,in this case Davis company  [Grum's images attached]

I'll be making some calls today ....any help appreciated

This device as shown from Davis' book is battery powered and would be equivalent to an isolated flyback transformer.  A rasp file is used for the intermittent primary switch by dragging a wire across it and the recipient of the secondary flyback voltage and current is holding on to the secondary leads!

Pm
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #284 on: 2018-11-29, 16:59:12 »

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Quote from: ion on 2018-11-28, 22:07:15
Smudge:
you said
Okay if I understand correctly, it is the added current that aids input current. I was wrongly thinking in terms of voltage gain.

So agreed.
Not so much added current but added induced voltage.  When we charge a ferro cored inductor with current it is best to consider doing this with a current generator, not a voltage generator.  The rising flux induces a voltage that the current has to fight against, the current generator sees a load that consumes power.  Not only does our current generator see a load, but so do the atomic current circulations that are within the ferro material.  It is that load induced onto those atomic currents circulations (electron spins and/or orbits) that accounts for the magnetic field energy within the inter-atomic space.  Note that on discharge the voltage induced feeds current back to the generator and back to those pesky atomic dipoles.  We only put and get back a tiny amount of energy depending on the mu of the material.  Note that there is now mega-mu material in the form of a metglas with a mu of 1 million!.  There we would only put in one millionth of the energy stored between the atoms.  But I digress.  I think we are onto a method for getting the voltage induction into those atomic circulations, those quantum dynamos, to supply some of their power to us.  And we do this by devising a method whereby the AC voltage induced onto the AC current generator driving our inductor has a phase component that doesn't continually take power from the generator while it alternately charges and discharges the inductor (as a lossy inductor does), but delivers power back to the generator.  That induction component will do the same thing to the atomic dipoles which on aggregate also alternate.  IMO whatever system we come up with would not work with air cores.  So I see this as an added induced voltage component.
Smudge
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #285 on: 2018-11-29, 17:26:14 »

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Quote from: partzman on 2018-11-29, 14:59:32
OK, so a 180 degree phase shift would be too much in the "short" coils at the ends of the main coils I assume.  I'm obviously missing how the bucking flux at the ends can increase the overall main coil flux.
The bucking current (70A in my FEMM run) produces an external magnetic field that couples to the
other coil system.  And there it induces a voltage that aids the current flow in that main coil.  The same applies to that other coil, it's external field couples back to the first coil to induce aiding voltage there.  Does that make sense?

Quote
I think I will attempt to simulate the device with GC models which would allow long solenoids to be made and analyzed with various core materials.  The shorted end turns could then be modeled with varying currents, phases, and couplings.
The problem is our lack of models for solving the magnetic domain dynamics.  I think it is possible to use classical electrical domain Spice models to do magnetic domain analysis, where voltage models mmf and current models flux.  For example my C cores with a shorted turn in the middle of the C could be modeled as in the attached image.  Each Rcore is the reluctance of a small section of the core and each Rair is the reluctance of the air path joining them.  Rgap is of course the reluctance of the air gap.  Each Ni is the ampere turns associated with each Rcore section, the sum of all the Ni being the input ampere turns.  Lm is the "magnetic inductance" (obeying mmf = -Lm*dPhi/dt) of the shorted turn and has a value of 1/Rshort where Rshort is the resistance of that short.  It should be possible to model both C cores and then introduce additional coupling to represent the external magnetic coupling that I allude to above.
Smudge
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #286 on: 2018-11-29, 17:32:15 »

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Sorry I used Paint to do quick images.  Here is a better quality image.
Smudge
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #287 on: 2018-11-29, 17:50:55 »

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Dr. Harold Aspden's comments on the Cook device:
http://www.aetherscience.org/www-aspden-org-uk/3.html

As an aside, Aspden later tested his capacitor proposal and found it did not work as he thought it would.
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #288 on: 2018-11-29, 19:07:34 »
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Quote from: Smudge on 2018-11-29, 17:26:14
The bucking current (70A in my FEMM run) produces an external magnetic field that couples to the
other coil system.  And there it induces a voltage that aids the current flow in that main coil.  The same applies to that other coil, it's external field couples back to the first coil to induce aiding voltage there.  Does that make sense?

OK, I understand your description above but where I'm still fuzzy is with the energy supplied to the current rings or shorted windings that will generate the magnetic field to aid the main winding.  If this energy is considered, would it not have to be accounted for in any energy increase in the main windings?   

Quote
The problem is our lack of models for solving the magnetic domain dynamics.  I think it is possible to use classical electrical domain Spice models to do magnetic domain analysis, where voltage models mmf and current models flux.  For example my C cores with a shorted turn in the middle of the C could be modeled as in the attached image.  Each Rcore is the reluctance of a small section of the core and each Rair is the reluctance of the air path joining them.  Rgap is of course the reluctance of the air gap.  Each Ni is the ampere turns associated with each Rcore section, the sum of all the Ni being the input ampere turns.  Lm is the "magnetic inductance" (obeying mmf = -Lm*dPhi/dt) of the shorted turn and has a value of 1/Rshort where Rshort is the resistance of that short.  It should be possible to model both C cores and then introduce additional coupling to represent the external magnetic coupling that I allude to above.
Smudge

OK, if the reluctance-resistance method for modeling magnetic components will work to solve this device, then the gyrator-capacitor method should work as well from what I can see.  Both can be implemented in LtSpice with some effort, but should be quicker than building physical coil arrangements.

Pm 
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #289 on: 2018-11-29, 20:19:35 »

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Quote from: partzman on 2018-11-29, 19:07:34
OK, I understand your description above but where I'm still fuzzy is with the energy supplied to the current rings or shorted windings that will generate the magnetic field to aid the main winding.  If this energy is considered, would it not have to be accounted for in any energy increase in the main windings?   
I think I answered that question in my reply to Ion.  Any time-changing flux will not only draw energy from the coil current but also from the atomic dipoles.  Normally this goes into the energy hidden in the inter-atomic space but here it gets into the outside world.
Smudge
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #290 on: 2018-11-29, 20:27:11 »
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Quote from: Smudge on 2018-11-29, 20:19:35
I think I answered that question in my reply to Ion.  Any time-changing flux will not only draw energy from the coil current but also from the atomic dipoles.  Normally this goes into the energy hidden in the inter-atomic space but here it gets into the outside world.
Smudge

OK, that clarifies it!   O0

Pm
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #291 on: 2018-11-30, 11:40:20 »

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Further considerations, the first image below shows the bucked flux FEMM result indicating that there is a small amount of flux flowing through the shorted turn but not necessarily at 90 degrees to the main flux and the main current.  FEMM can't show this flux.  It is that invisible (in FEMM) flux that drives the current around the shorted turn.  The next image shows the phases that have to apply, the resultant flux through the shorted turn is at 90 degrees to the shorted current.  Note that for a good short very low resistance short the shorted turn current is almost 180 degrees from the main input current.  That is not what we want since we want to inject a 90 degree component into the opposite system.

The next image shows the situation for a poor high resistance short where now the current in the short is almost 90 degrees to the main input current.  That is fine but now the current in that short is low.  The optimum situation that delivers the maximum 90 degree component to the opposite system is as shown in the final image where the phases form an equilateral triangle.  So this tells me the resistance in that shorted turn is critical, another variable to consider.
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #292 on: 2018-11-30, 20:04:21 »
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Smudge, you said:

Quote
"That is not what we want since we want to inject a 90 degree component into the opposite system."

What if we put a large value capacitor in series with our shorted turn (open it to insert C)? Also the # of turns could be more than one and some resistance can also be added to tailor phase shift. Would this give too much phase shift?

Also, what if the turn with the phase shift elements inserted also enclosed the opposite coil system ?
« Last Edit: 2018-12-01, 00:53:23 by ion »


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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #293 on: 2018-12-01, 09:22:13 »

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Quote from: ion on 2018-11-30, 20:04:21
Smudge, you said:

What if we put a large value capacitor in series with our shorted turn (open it to insert C)? Also the # of turns could be more than one and some resistance can also be added to tailor phase shift. Would this give too much phase shift?

Also, what if the turn with the phase shift elements inserted also enclosed the opposite coil system ?
In the magnetic domain a capacitive load appears as a negative reluctance of value N2C so it should be easy to model this.  What I haven't mastered is coupling two systems as you describe.   I'll think about this some more.
Smudge
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #294 on: 2018-12-03, 11:57:25 »

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Looking at very long systems in FEMM, here I have modeled Fe cores that are 1.8m long and 4mm diameter with full length coils of 100 turns.   In this run these coils are not energized.  I have a pair of shorted turns, one at each end of one of the solenoids.  I put 10 amps in those shorted turns and the first image shows the result.  The shorts couple well to the core they are around, and quite well to the adjacent core.  FEMM tells me that the flux linkages are 1.26015e-005 Webers in the first case and -6.36258e-006 Webers in the second case (the FEMM depth is set to 10mm).  The second image is an expanded view at one end of the system.  What I find surprising is that the external coupling to the adjacent core is as high as one half the internal coupling to their own core.  The third image is an expanded view at one end showing the FEMM data on a 1mm grid.

If as I suspect Cook's coils wound directly onto the Fe act as transmission lines, with the shorted turn at each end acting as terminations, then we can expect a standing wave there where the flux is close to zero at each end and a maxiumum in the centre, but everywhere along the line in the same phase.  That near zero at each and is due to current induced into those shorted turns which in turn then couple extremely well to the adjacent core.   The more I look into this the more likely it seems.
Smudge
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #295 on: 2018-12-03, 15:55:22 »
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Smudge, thanks for your diligent work on this. I am following your endeavor with full attention.

4mm seems a bit thin for the diameter, and modelling with linear iron may mask the domain avalanche effect I suspect may occur in large long cores but i don't know how to prove this outside of an actual test model.

Keep up the good work!


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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #296 on: 2018-12-04, 19:25:11 »

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Quote from: ion on 2018-12-03, 15:55:22
4mm seems a bit thin for the diameter, and modelling with linear iron may mask the domain avalanche effect I suspect may occur in large long cores but i don't know how to prove this outside of an actual test model.
FEMM can not model the domain avalanche effect but it does model hysteresis.  Using linear iron takes away hysteresis and speeds up the computation.  I am not trying to model Cook's exact work, I am merely looking for effects.
Smudge
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #297 on: 2018-12-16, 19:00:15 »

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Ion asked about capacitive loading so I have given some though to this.  The attached paper is a hotchpot of some previous musings plus more thoughts that might lead somewhere.  Enjoy!
Smudge
   
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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #298 on: 2018-12-17, 15:22:21 »
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Quote from: Smudge on 2018-12-16, 19:00:15
Ion asked about capacitive loading so I have given some though to this.  The attached paper is a hotchpot of some previous musings plus more thoughts that might lead somewhere.  Enjoy!
Smudge

Dear Smudge

Thank you for the current paper. I follow what you are saying. In section four (Cook) you consider the capacitance between the winding and the core. Would it be helpful to model this as a transmission line, as each turn has both inductance (increased by the core) as well as the capacitance you mention. This would however require that the core be part of the circuit, and I'm not sure this is part of the Cook apparatus, but who knows?

On a separate note, I think it would also be valuable to explore the recent work and video posts of Melnichenko. I would like to start a separate thread for this and invite comments. He has about 100 videos ( 6 months ago is latest and going back 2 years) all with the same theme of an iron core surrounded with two copper windings, the outer one is loosely fitted. The scope waveforms are interesting. Anyone else find this interesting?

Regards


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Re: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator « Reply #299 on: 2018-12-17, 15:53:08 »
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Quote from: ion on 2018-12-17, 15:22:21
Dear Smudge

Thank you for the current paper. I follow what you are saying. In section four (Cook) you consider the capacitance between the winding and the core. Would it be helpful to model this as a transmission line, as each turn has both inductance (increased by the core) as well as the capacitance you mention. This would however require that the core be part of the circuit, and I'm not sure this is part of the Cook apparatus, but who knows?

On a separate note, I think it would also be valuable to explore the recent work and video posts of Melnichenko. I would like to start a separate thread for this and invite comments. He has about 100 videos ( 6 months ago is latest and going back 2 years) all with the same theme of an iron core surrounded with two copper windings, the outer one is loosely fitted. The scope waveforms are interesting. Anyone else find this interesting?

Regards

Yes, I do.  I've been translating Melnichenko's posts on his website but I'm not able to find the videos you mention Ion.  Could you give us a link for these? 

I would also like to see a dedicated thread for Melnichenko's work.

Pm

Edit:  Whoops!  :-[  I already see that you have answered my question and taken care of the new thread!  Thanks!
   
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