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OverUnity Research > Electrical / Electronic Devices > Solid-State Generators > MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection
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Author Topic: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection  (Read 68310 times)
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img  poynt99
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #25 on: 2012-11-11, 16:52:43 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
We've had the diagram for a while Peter.

The question I have is; what is providing the 9V source?


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  Farrah Day
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #26 on: 2012-11-11, 17:10:39 »
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http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/1874/imagedmb.jpg

Well I can't make head or tail of this diagram, which I understand is a truer depiction of the actual layout than the neat schematic. The PWM appears to be providing parallel outputs - what's that all about.

I assumed the 9V was a battery powering the PWM cct, and that the whole thing was kick-started by an additional 12v source, but no transistors are depicted at all (if the Amp blocks refer to ammeters!).
   
img  Peterae
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #27 on: 2012-11-11, 17:20:04 »

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Buy me some coffee
Oh sorry i had not seen the drive circuit mentioned before.

Quote from him at energetic
Quote
ive had to put it down for a bit, going insane trying to do it again
Does this mean it's stopped working?
   
img  poynt99
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #28 on: 2012-11-11, 17:29:14 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
It's simple for the most part.

See the annotated diagram.

Does anyone know what he might be doing with that "Parallel free wire"?


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  ion
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #29 on: 2012-11-11, 17:30:11 »
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It's turtles all the way down
I'm familiar with the pulser schematic.

 Question is: what happens at reduced voltage and current drive?

 I surmise that the pulser circuit will function at very low current / voltage from the residual charge in the 1 farad capacitor, which can act like a battery due to dielectric absorption.

 This is the same effect found in electret's but capable of a little higher current, possibly enough to run the oscillator in a quenched mode.

After all the dipoles in the 1 Farad capacitor have been permanently reset, the effect will disappear.
« Last Edit: 2012-11-13, 00:58:56 by ION »


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  poynt99
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #30 on: 2012-11-11, 17:30:20 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: Peterae on 2012-11-11, 17:20:04
Oh sorry i had not seen the drive circuit mentioned before.

Quote from him at energeticDoes this mean it's stopped working?
The diagram is on the first page.
I think he means he can't replicate it with another setup. He has stated that on the other forums.
« Last Edit: 2012-11-11, 18:00:18 by poynt99 »


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  poynt99
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #31 on: 2012-11-11, 17:46:30 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
The way I see it, Kurt's 9V source is either a 9V battery, or he is regulating the 12V input from the 12V battery down to 9V.

By "isolated" I suspect he means that the 9V supply is not connected to the transistor collectors.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  poynt99
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #32 on: 2012-11-11, 17:57:29 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Here once again is how the PWM circuit is driving the coils.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  poynt99
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #33 on: 2012-11-11, 18:13:12 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Here is a circuit update from verpies.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  Farrah Day
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #34 on: 2012-11-11, 18:38:55 »
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I think by 'isolated' he either just means it's a battery and not a mains PSU, or the 9V battery only powers the PWM. He then sets the cct resonating with the 12V car battery and then disconnects it.  

The video is so messy it's impossible to see what he has connected to where - there's wires and crap everywhere.

I'm getting a little confused here. OK, am I right in thinking that the neat schematic is the whole PWM cct, simply with the LC part of Mr Clean's setup tagged onto it?
   
img  Peterae
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #35 on: 2012-11-11, 19:50:56 »

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Buy me some coffee
Well he did mention Don Smith.
Don clearly stated in one of his videos that he could quiet easily remove the power supply running his device and feed it from a wire that was trimmed to the correct length, which seems to be what is being tried here?

Don's device created a large field in the area when at resonance and could be intercepted by a single wire of the correct length, this was Don's explanation of how to close the loop.
The extra energy was sucked in during the build up and collapse of this large field.Something like that anyway  C.C

EDIT Farah
Yes the 555 & 393 is the cybernetics circuit, it seems likely the 9V isolated is a pp3 battery providing power to the 555 & 393 and hence the device is still being independently powered by a battery, how that powers the coil i don't know, this what the others Poynt and others are trying to figure out.
« Last Edit: 2012-11-11, 21:16:13 by Peterae »
   
img  Farrah Day
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #36 on: 2012-11-11, 23:47:05 »
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So doesn't he initially power the coils with the 12v car battery which charges that 1 Farad capacitor? He then disconnects the 12v battery and the cct goes into oscillation as the 1 Farad cap starts to discharge. Then oscillations that would normally dampen down and eventually cease altogether are somehow kept topped up by the PWM.  Probably way off the mark, but it seems to me that if the cap/coil arrangements are set oscillating, then the PWM must be providing +ve feedback to maintain those oscillations.

Doesn't the fact that the voltage slowly rises simply mean that the PWM is providing a slightly greater signal than is required to maintain the initial oscillation voltage? 
   
img  EMdevices
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #37 on: 2012-11-12, 02:55:48 »
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Poynt99,

I'm confused.  How come verpie's diagram shows 2 transistors?    I don't see any transistors in Kurt's hand drawn diagram (which Farrah linked), I just see the PWM & 393 block connected directly to the central coil in parallel with the capacitor.    No transistors there!    As such,  the coil and capacitor tank circuit are excited and ring out from the PWM signal, so why is this invention claimed to be "self running"?   

EM
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #38 on: 2012-11-12, 12:15:41 »
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Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012-11-11, 15:11:53
... What interesting is there was an accumulation in energy measured by the meter.  There maybe an amplification factor by circulating current in the LC.  

There is never amplification of energy by a LC circuit, but only accumulation as you said it. Consequenty if you use permanently the energy, for example to light LEDs, it doesn't make a difference there is a LC circuit or not. At most a LC circuit can be used for impedance matching between load and source but this works also with energy conservation.
   
img  Farrah Day
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #39 on: 2012-11-12, 12:31:50 »
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Quote from: EMdevices on 2012-11-12, 02:55:48
Poynt99,

I'm confused.  How come verpie's diagram shows 2 transistors?    I don't see any transistors in Kurt's hand drawn diagram (which Farrah linked), I just see the PWM & 393 block connected directly to the central coil in parallel with the capacitor.    No transistors there!    As such,  the coil and capacitor tank circuit are excited and ring out from the PWM signal, so why is this invention claimed to be "self running"?    

EM

That got me too EM, but I think those transistors are just part of the PWM output circuitry.  The PWM (powered by a small 9v battery) would be used to modulate the auxillary 12 volt DC supply which feeds the LC configuration.  I now think that this is also what he means by isolated power supply, in that the 9v powering the pulsing part of the PWM, is independent of the power supply (12v car battery) that supplies the LC configuration.
   
img  poynt99
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #40 on: 2012-11-12, 13:45:08 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012-11-12, 02:55:48
Poynt99,

I'm confused.  How come verpie's diagram shows 2 transistors?    I don't see any transistors in Kurt's hand drawn diagram (which Farrah linked), I just see the PWM & 393 block connected directly to the central coil in parallel with the capacitor.    No transistors there!    As such,  the coil and capacitor tank circuit are excited and ring out from the PWM signal, so why is this invention claimed to be "self running"?    

EM
Basically, place verpies' circuit drawing (excluding the bi-toroid) inside the block labeled "PWM & 393". It would be nice if verpies updated his circuit to show the entire setup as a whole.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #41 on: 2012-11-12, 14:45:28 »
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Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012-11-12, 12:15:41
There is never amplification of energy by a LC circuit, but only accumulation as you said it. Consequenty if you use permanently the energy, for example to light LEDs, it doesn't make a difference there is a LC circuit or not. At most a LC circuit can be used for impedance matching between load and source but this works also with energy conservation.



I based my theory on sling shot effect proposed earlier.  You based yours on the conservation of energy.  Right now we're talking about the anomaly of the circuit. 
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #42 on: 2012-11-12, 17:23:21 »
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Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012-11-12, 14:45:28
I based my theory on sling shot effect proposed earlier.  ...

A new theory is needed only when new facts are observed, duplicated and certified.

   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #43 on: 2012-11-13, 00:52:18 »
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Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012-11-12, 17:23:21
A new theory is needed only when new facts are observed, duplicated and certified.



If you prefer accumulation, that's fine with me.  What we're trying to determine is what causing the accumulation:  Is it our input alone or could something else entering the system.  For example, an antenna can have accumulation from radio waves.  How then can we amplify this effect?  I don't mean amplification as energy multiply from nothing. 
   
img  verpies
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #44 on: 2012-11-13, 01:36:25 »

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Below is an updated schematic diagram of Mr. Clean's Device according to his posts at this thread.

It is still a mystery where the +9V supply rail comes from and where the red question marks (? ? ?) go to.
Also I am not sure of the R5 value and the dot symbolizing the W3 winding direction.

I would appreciate if some persistent person could ferret out this info.
   
img  poynt99
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #45 on: 2012-11-13, 01:48:39 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: verpies on 2012-11-13, 01:36:25
Below is an updated schematic diagram of Mr. Clean's Device according to his posts at this thread.

It is still a mystery where the +9V supply rail comes from and where the red question marks (? ? ?) go to.
Also I am not sure of the R5 value and the dot symbolizing the W3 winding direction.

I would appreciate if some persistent person could ferret out this info.

Thanks verpies, nice work.

The bottom (? ? ?) must go to the circuit ground. If the 9V supply is derived from the 12V supply (and I suspect it is), then the upper (? ? ?) would go to the 9V regulator input in the PWM block. Kurt does show both going to that block.

Hopefully Kurt will be a little more forthcoming with some answers, then we may know for certain if what I am saying is correct.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  ion
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #46 on: 2012-11-13, 03:12:20 »
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It's turtles all the way down
The elephant in the room will soon be noticed
For once was he a big spender
But with so much now squandered
He spends his Joules with thrift
And is rejuvenated from within

The panther is starved and fed again
Lunges forward, now and then
Has only a dim light  to tell his tale
He finds his path, obscured, though it seems
But not to one who moves quickly

And not a mere flick of the switch!
The elephant must be fed for one hour
Then, for the amusement of those who watch, and wait
He will repeat his trick
In the three ring circus
« Last Edit: 2012-11-13, 04:06:55 by ION »


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #47 on: 2012-11-13, 08:01:38 »
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Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012-11-13, 00:52:18
If you prefer accumulation, that's fine with me.  What we're trying to determine is what causing the accumulation:  Is it our input alone or could something else entering the system.  For example, an antenna can have accumulation from radio waves.  How then can we amplify this effect?  I don't mean amplification as energy multiply from nothing.  

This points are answered from decades. For the accumulation, see electronics courses, according to the schematic the input alone is not enough, and ask those who have an experience in radio, they will tell you, from a usable energy viewpoint, the negligible order of magnitude of the ambient field that you can be expecting for, except when you are very near a transmitter antenna.
   
img  Farrah Day
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #48 on: 2012-11-13, 08:21:22 »
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There now appears to be two 12 Volt sources in Verpies latest schematic - surely this is not correct!
   
img  Groundloop
Re: MrClean's claimed "self-looping" device with load, and no +Battery connection « Reply #49 on: 2012-11-13, 09:10:42 »
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Here is my understanding of the circuit.
He is using a 9 Volt battery for the oscillator circuit.
The battery can be seen in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHnJYl6q96w&feature=relmfu



[EDIT] I have updated my circuit drawing according to the hand drawing from Mr. Clean.

GL.
« Last Edit: 2012-11-13, 13:14:36 by Groundloop »
   
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