TK Replicates

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OverUnity Research > Electrical / Electronic Devices > Tariel Kapanadze's Devices (Moderators: verpies, Apecore) > TK Replicates

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Author Topic: TK Replicates (Read 159828 times)

muDped	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #175 on: 2014-05-06, 03:52:38 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3055	Many thanks Ion for the video link. Very unusual for a certainty! This is going to require some deep thinking to try and understand what is taking place. The experimenter did a magnificent job with his layout, his explanations, and his camera work. --------------------------- For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

ion	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #176 on: 2014-05-06, 04:14:59 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: Dumped on 2014-05-06, 03:52:38 Many thanks Ion for the video link. Very unusual for a certainty! This is going to require some deep thinking to try and understand what is taking place. The experimenter did a magnificent job with his layout, his explanations, and his camera work. You are very welcome Dumped. As I said, I usually don't get excited by such videos e.g. A transformer slightly in saturation is then loaded on the secondary with a lamp. The power is shifted from heating the core to the lamp with no increase in power input. Those kinds of things are easy to explain and fool the inexperienced. This is very different. That current meter does not budge when the lamp is lit or not. Usually there is some reaction, even if momentary. I like that he double checks the current with an analog meter. Additionally the power input / power output is too close to hide the excess. Usually these illusions have several hundred watts input to demonstrate no change in power from a much smaller load of just a few percent (e.g Thane Heins). Here we have at least a 50% increase in loading. Very surprised that more folks don't find this one interesting enough to comment on. BTW I fixed a couple of numbers in the original post, power input is 14.55 Watts, not 30 watts, it is even better than I thought. Cheers, ION « Last Edit: 2014-05-06, 04:48:46 by ION » --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Grumpy	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #177 on: 2014-05-06, 04:57:04 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	I'm curious if the lamp still lights with the rod pulled out of the coils, but still connected, or without the ferrites. How is he driving the coils?

ion	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #178 on: 2014-05-06, 05:26:05 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: Grumpy on 2014-05-06, 04:57:04 I'm curious if the lamp still lights with the rod pulled out of the coils, but still connected, or without the ferrites. How is he driving the coils? Yes those would be interesting tests. I have no idea how he is driving the coils, maybe push pull FET's. I'm also interested in your reference to Elihu Thompson, could you expand on that? The third test, I can understand due to the close capacitive coupling between the windings, but it is the second test that is puzzling to me. Not enough capacitance for that kind of power coupling at 20kHz, couple of hundred pF at best. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Hoppy	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #179 on: 2014-05-06, 08:02:14 »
Group: Guest	I would like to have seen the effect on the first lamp when he connected the coils to the second lamp. Was this a clean power re-balance??

Peterae	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #180 on: 2014-05-06, 08:45:21 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	I think his next logical test would be to replace those bulbs for non inductive resistors and get some real power measurements done.

Hoppy	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #181 on: 2014-05-06, 09:01:01 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2014-05-06, 08:45:21 I think his next logical test would be to replace those bulbs for non inductive resistors and get some real power measurements done. Agreed. Hopefully he will show us both scope shots across a shunt resistor and the two lamps in the same camera shot.

Peterae	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #182 on: 2014-05-06, 09:05:02 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Certainly interesting effect, that second bulb looks over driven and could explain the use of copper foils in the other devices we have been looking at, hopefully being a friend of Stephan that he will sort out further details.

ion	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #183 on: 2014-05-06, 13:08:02 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: Hoppy on 2014-05-06, 08:02:14 I would like to have seen the effect on the first lamp when he connected the coils to the second lamp. Was this a clean power re-balance?? You are right, a clean power re-balance would explain it, but I believe the first lamp is still lit to the same level when the second comes on. Typically you would expect to see some small movement of the amp meter as the cold incandescent filament of the second lamp loads the circuit until it warms. In the video I don't see the amp meter budge at all. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

NerzhDishual	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #184 on: 2014-05-06, 13:09:43 »
Group: Guest	http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/zatsarininaen.htm

ion	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #185 on: 2014-05-06, 13:23:43 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	While it looks similar to the Zatsarinina, the solid bar in the video in question is only connected to the lamp at one end, quite different than the attached schematic. The Zatsarinina transformer seems to be not much more than a long toroidal core with a single turn primary (copper pipe) and single turn secondary (wire through the center). Note that the Zatsarinina has connections at both ends of the pipe, unlike the video in question which has a solid copper bar with two small holes drilled a short way into the ends. Noting the 68 nF driving capacitance in the attached schematic, it is possible the copper bar is driven through stray capacitance, no solid connection. Does anyone have an English translation of the attached document regarding the Zatsarinina? ------------------------ TK Replicates Zatsarinina.jpg (23.28 kB, 610x351 - viewed 2022 times.) 00_kanarev.pdf (137.51 kB - downloaded 721 times.) --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Grumpy	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #186 on: 2014-05-06, 14:58:15 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: ION on 2014-05-06, 05:26:05 Yes those would be interesting tests. I have no idea how he is driving the coils, maybe push pull FET's. I'm also interested in your reference to Elihu Thompson, could you expand on that? The third test, I can understand due to the close capacitive coupling between the windings, but it is the second test that is puzzling to me. Not enough capacitance for that kind of power coupling at 20kHz, couple of hundred pF at best. He describes the controller only as a "driver and diodes" in the video. Looks like a MOSFET or BJT and two diodes with two legs and a base - full wave rectification? Elihu Thomson was setting up a demonstration of a Rhumkorff coil for a class he was instructing and wanted to get larger sparks at the electrodes. Keep in mind that this type of coil has a positive pulse output and a pulse rate in the kHz range. He connected one terminal to a water pipe, then connected the other terminal to a large metal table. This produced marvelous sparks at the electrodes, so he went to get someone to show them the marked improvement. As he touched the metal doorknob, a long spark shocked him. Upon investigation, he found that large sparks could be drawn from every metallic object in the room. Thomson never explored the phenomenon further, to my knowledge. Hertz and Tesla did. Anyway, I think it is only loosely related and I don't want to derail the events here. We should find out more details from this experimenter and explore this ourselves.

Grumpy	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #187 on: 2014-05-06, 17:35:36 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Looking at the coil int he video: All three coils appear to be double layered so they can be connected in different ways, so 6 coils in all, not counting the thin copper wires that are open. In operation, the black coil appears to be connected as a Tesla Bifilar coil for electromagnets, parallel wound, series connected. The output coil appears to be the longest blue coil. I cannot tell if it is also bifilar connected. More details would help, but this is a start. Any suggestion for a BJT amp for this application? This to amplify a signal generator.

ion	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #188 on: 2014-05-06, 17:52:22 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: Grumpy on 2014-05-06, 17:35:36 Looking at the coil int he video: All three coils appear to be double layered so they can be connected in different ways, so 6 coils in all, not counting the thin copper wires that are open. In operation, the black coil appears to be connected as a Tesla Bifilar coil for electromagnets, parallel wound, series connected. The output coil appears to be the longest blue coil. I cannot tell if it is also bifilar connected. More details would help, but this is a start. Any suggestion for a BJT amp for this application? This to amplify a signal generator. Thanks for that analysis G. As for a BJT amp, I would wind a small toroidal core, single layer primary, with a single layer center tapped secondary so you can drive the bases of the transistors push pull or single ended. All would depend on your SG max output voltage to determine the turns ratio aiming for about 1 volt on the secondary to drive the bases. e.g SG has 10 volt output capability, use 10 to 1 turns ratio and drive the base through a small resistor (10 to 100 ohms). This should give a nice high current drive to the base, insuring fast turn on and turn off. If your SG has high enough current capability, you can drive the base directly through a small resistor. FETs would be better and easier to drive from an SG --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Grumpy	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #189 on: 2014-05-06, 20:09:05 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	My SG is an old Wavetek 166. http://www.teknetelectronics.com/DataSheet/WAVETEK/WAVET_16693510.pdf I am surprised more people are not interested in this video.

Chet K	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #190 on: 2014-05-07, 15:13:45 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4045	Judging by the mans presentation and his demeanor during the presentation He does this quite often [shares his work in video format ] this is not a nervous nilly one time share Vid Especially significant is his "today" comment on the intro. Very Interesting and well done presentation. thx Chet

ion	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #191 on: 2014-05-07, 15:27:05 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: Grumpy on 2014-05-06, 20:09:05 My SG is an old Wavetek 166. http://www.teknetelectronics.com/DataSheet/WAVETEK/WAVET_16693510.pdf I am surprised more people are not interested in this video. That is a nice old Wavetek generator. it can deliver +/- 7.5 Volts into a 50 ohm load. With a 10:1 matching transformer you can drive the BJT base or bases quite nicely. With FET's you don't need the transformer, but put a 15 volt zener gate to ground and drive through a 100 ohm resistor to the generator. We need to know the ferrite types and specifics of the wiring. Also what are the diodes used for? The rest I think we can handle. This video device is worthy of replication, just to figure out why the extra load does not show up in the metering. I understand capacitance coupling can cause some current to flow into the lamp, but I don't understand how so much power can be generated essentially by the proximity of the copper bar to the inner thin winding. If the capacitive energy is always being dissipated as part of the energy budget, and then is shifted to the lamp when the lamp is connected is the only possible plausible explanation I can entertain at this time. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Grumpy	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #192 on: 2014-05-07, 15:50:04 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: ION on 2014-05-07, 15:27:05 That is a nice old Wavetek generator. it can deliver +/- 7.5 Volts into a 50 ohm load. With a 10:1 matching transformer you can drive the BJT base or bases quite nicely. With FET's you don't need the transformer, but put a 15 volt zener gate to ground and drive through a 100 ohm resistor to the generator. We need to know the ferrite types and specifics of the wiring. Also what are the diodes used for? The rest I think we can handle. This video device is worthy of replication, just to figure out why the extra load does not show up in the metering. I understand capacitance coupling can cause some current to flow into the lamp, but I don't understand how so much power can be generated essentially by the proximity of the copper bar to the inner thin winding. If the capacitive energy is always being dissipated as part of the energy budget, and then is shifted to the lamp when the lamp is connected is the only possible plausible explanation I can entertain at this time. Yeah, I got this SG to drive logic for sequential triggering of avalanche stacks. I use a freq counter to keep an eye on it but it very stable. Comes in handy. see attached: How does the transistor/MOSFET (?) and diodes appear to be connected? I'm not worried about the type of ferrite right out of the gate. I'm curious to see what happens without the ferrites. Guessing that he is driving with a sine wave and fully rectifying the signal, we can surmise that the signal is always rising and falling steadily. Always changing but not reversing. I'm not banking on capacitive coupling, as the magnetic field of the driven coil is opposite relative to the two recieving conductors. I.E. the inner magnetic field and outer magnetic field are opposite directions, and the conductors in these locations, driving the additional lamp, are at opposite ends of the circuit. This fits with GF Theory. I'd like to see a scope shot at the extra lamp. ------------------------ TK Replicates TK FRG Vid_controller.png (380.54 kB, 647x482 - viewed 1543 times.)

BEP	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #193 on: 2014-05-08, 03:15:30 »
Group: Guest	Ion, I agree with your posted thoughts for explanations of the first and third tests. In addition, I must say that the analog meter used for current readings can't be expected to react, if at all, to most load changes at those pulse rate frequencies. Spring loaded devices like a D'Arsonval meter movement not only react to the amount of applied torque but also the velocity of each application. As far as the second part.... I need to see if this could be due to coaxial capacitor (transmission line effects) possibly tied to sonic resonance of the rod or pumping charge along a conductive surface. The latter would make it related to my thought and bench experiments on toroidal capacitors. From what I can tell, you can make current flow by squeezing the hose sequentially along the length or around the circumference. Maybe that is taking expected results beyond the small bit of capacitance to the rod.

Hoppy	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #194 on: 2014-05-08, 08:39:03 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Grumpy on 2014-05-07, 15:50:04 Guessing that he is driving with a sine wave and fully rectifying the signal, we can surmise that the signal is always rising and falling steadily. Always changing but not reversing. I have experimented with this type of transformer in the past using the same core material and size as specified in the schematic posted above and found that a square wave is considerably more effective than a sine wave. If a second load conductor is inserted through the copper tube, then any load connected to this loop will steal power from the first loop, which is why I suspect that if we could have seen both of the lamps in the video, this power sharing would have been observed. IMO, this setup is well worthy of study, as my initial findings were that the power transfer is very efficient when carefully tuned by optimising power transfer by adjustment of the primary drive frequency. The Q of my setup did not appear to be very sharp, which may have been due to my copper tube being a very loose fit (tube dia 10mm & inside dia of ferrite 13mm). I have found that the optimum frequency for maximum power transfer is determined by the number of cores (less cores = higher frequency). I do intend to further experiment using additional windings as shown in the video. Hoppy

forest	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #195 on: 2014-05-08, 10:20:57 »
Sr. Member Posts: 472	Why did you turn around ? You already explained what is needed ! Elihu Thomson connected his Rhumkorff coil to ground pipe and to the isolated metal tabletop. Tabletop was acting as elevated capacitance while the pipe was long good ground connection. Electricity instead of leaking to ground formed standing wave resonance with huge Q factor and spread power into air ....

Grumpy	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #196 on: 2014-05-08, 15:01:19 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: forest on 2014-05-08, 10:20:57 Why did you turn around ? You already explained what is needed ! Elihu Thomson connected his Rhumkorff coil to ground pipe and to the isolated metal tabletop. Tabletop was acting as elevated capacitance while the pipe was long good ground connection. Electricity instead of leaking to ground formed standing wave resonance with huge Q factor and spread power into air .... This is only a means to vary the charge density, and does not produce a usable current. The effect is easy to produce with a large coil and high voltage pulses. The sparks are exactly as described: thin, white, sometimes with a tough of blue or violet, etc.

ion	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #197 on: 2014-05-13, 12:08:06 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Build documentation now presented by Stefan and friend here: http://www.overunity.com/14630/kapanodrawback-circuit-from-a-german-friend/msg402323/#msg402323 --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Grumpy	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #198 on: 2014-05-15, 16:01:20 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Curious that DC applied to L3 reduces output to ZERO.

ion	Re: TK Replicates « Reply #199 on: 2014-05-15, 16:16:05 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: Grumpy on 2014-05-15, 16:01:20 Curious that DC applied to L3 reduces output to ZERO. The reason the output goes to zero when DC is applied to L3: Applying DC from a low impedance source such as a battery or well regulated power supply is effectively the same as shorting L3 as far as high frequencies are concerned. A suitable isolating (blocking) RF choke (inductor) must be added between the source of current and the L3 winding to prevent the effective short circuit. The effective shorted L3 soaks all the power from the primary coil and dissipates it as heat. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

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