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Author Topic: TK Replicates  (Read 159795 times)
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Hoppy,  that's interesting what you found, but what if its the seat padding?  I'll analyze the video later.

The TK video had so manny people standing around, it's hard to imagine he would try to fake it like you described. When his videos first showed up on the Internet, I did not think much of them because it looked like a resonant converter, and I saw batteries, and a huge box that can house small but high energy batteries.  I have seen a lot of these inverter "OU" type of devices, and I don't get too excited anymore about a lightbulb glowing brightly.  However, after reading the TK patents, and understanding the output is a 50 Hz beat frequency, it's apparent that its a serious energy scavenger, nothing to ignore or laugh at.

EM
   
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Hoppy,  that's interesting what you found, but what if its the seat padding?  I'll analyze the video later.
Sorry Hoppy...  I vote for seat padding also.  :)
   
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Looks like the wood beading that is used to hold the edge of the seat padding.

But gentlemen, let us put aside cries of fakery for a bit. We can start a separate thread to discuss the many ways these things could be faked.

I'm more interested in a critical analysis of the devices, witholding my disbelief for a bit until absolute proof of fakery can be established.

Now regarding EM's statement about a runaway condition:

Quote
The input power is used to drive a high voltage power supply  (push pull config driving the TV high voltage coil) and it goes right to the spark gap.     Let's ask the question, what would a higher input voltage accomplish?   Well,   the voltage would build up faster and the spark gap will trigger at a FASTER FREQUENCY.

So a higher input voltage increases the spark gap firing frequency.   But is that a problem?   Not really, because the spark gap is just a tool to excite the resonant coil (main big coil) to oscillate, and its frequency is not controlled by the spark gap firing frequency.  Moreover,  the regulation mechanism is in the frequency of the spark gap firing.  As we know from Tesla coil operation, each time the spark gap fires energy is transferred to the secondary, but there is an optimum frequency of the spark gap triggering frequency and the resonant frequency of the Tesla coil, and its the harmonic relation, i.e. the coils resonant frequency has to be a higher harmonic of the spark gap triggering frequency, and then the energy is added in phase and builds up faster, assuming the coil is not heavily loaded, but if it is heavily loaded, as in this case, I guess it doesn't matter so much.    Undecided

Consider that there is a sweet spot frequency that is ideal to create the voltage / current mixing in the air core transformer. Going above the sweet spot frequency would result in less energy output, so the system loop would self regulate somewhat.

Yes this would be unlike normal transformer action. We are not talking normal transformer action. The output air core is all wrong, being another step up transformer 3 turns to 80 turns, a huge impedance mismatch, and the wrong way to light a bulb, so either something very interesting is going on or there are hidden wires from the mains. Also the two 80 turn secondaries are in phase and would result in a null to the iron core step down transformer. The only voltage that should appear into the iron core iss from the resonant C2, L4 combo.

Lack of excitement on the part of the video poster can also mean that he wants to keep a low key and stay under the radar, yet disseminate to those who are sharp enough to "get it".

I have traced out all the wires in the "Ikako" video, they agree with schematic _00002.jpg. I have not been able to detect any auxilliary mains inputexcept for the "ground clip lead". We would still need one more wire coming from somewhere to the other winding that feeds the iron core. Can anyone see if that wire exists?

As I have said before, the long red twisted pair is also suspect, it appears to be completely on the table, however there is a   possibility that it is later connected to a power supply or battery under the table, and the presenter cut that segment out. But even this would be unable to light the lamp because of the aforementioned severe impedance mismatch. We would expect a step down transformer after the spark gap, but L2 and L3 feed the lamp directly.

Let us do a rigorous analysis before claiming fake. Deductive reasoning would have us take away everything that cannot be and see what we are left with.

We can also employ inductive reasoning after this.


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Thank you gents for your comments on the Acula 'chair' video. This clip was sent to me and I thought it interesting enough to post as a possible twin wire. Its strange that if this is seat padding, why it does not appear on top of the wood beading shown under the top red arrow.

   

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Re: Akula chair video.
@7:36 there is something down inside the tube.
In the kitchen: the corner of the platform is out in the air. We don't see beneath.

What if these guys are just copying and don't know the purpose? No, really! What if their interpretation is really askew? The chimpanzees have a hand grenade and are stumbling through a mine field wondering to them selves.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=ya7IhijXYUQ&feature=endscreen[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-0vbvy2ip4[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6GG_ex_ZAI&feature=endscreen&NR=1[/youtube]
http://abcnews.go.com/International/Technology/stray-dogs-master-complex-moscow-subway-system/story?id=10145833#.UYFJTsqGXnP

Not trying to be funny. But sometimes you have to wonder about the ratio of action to intelligence.
« Last Edit: 2013-05-01, 19:14:48 by giantkiller »


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Hello Gents,


I took the time to build a quick model of the TK generator, to illustrate how it operates, specifically how the "difference of frequency" gets created as he describes in the patents.


It's really not anything exotic, two off tuned tank circuits have been in use since the early days of RADIO.   This is what my model illustrates,  notice:

1)  the tuning capacitors on the L1 and L2 tank circuits are of slightly different values
2)  notice the dots on the inductors, they are connected in opposition, so only when they are 180 deg out of phase does the current add up and influences the third inductor L3, which has fewer turns.
3) the spark gap is approximated by the pulsed voltage source


This is a very simple spice model, and I suppose I could tune the third inductor with a capacitor, and smooth the output waveform.

The output voltage waveform you see is obviously of a different frequency than the blue current waveform which is the current flowing through L2, because it is the difference between the L1 and L2 tank circuits.   Tariel Kapanadze  talks about this difference in frequency, and mentions 50 Hz.    His crude spark gap setup is just to accomplish this difference of frequencies, and when tuned to 50 Hz that's when its in phase with the external 50 Hz currents that flow through the ground wire,  and conversion happens.

EM

PS.  I added a paragraph from the TK patent application, and the figure, for reference.
« Last Edit: 2013-05-07, 05:27:08 by EMdevices »
   
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this is a better simulation to illustrate the difference frequency.  (beat frequency) 
(I'm using two separate frequencies, off by 100 Hz)
   
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Pretty close to yours now...
Thanks for the help.
DonL
   

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What software are you guys using?


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It's turtles all the way down
Looks like LTspice to me........freeware from Linear Technology.


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Looks like LTspice to me........freeware from Linear Technology.
Yes LTSpice
   
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Here's an image of the touch potential around an electric grid substation, that experiences a ground fault.   Notice the steep gradients around it, in Kv.  Large currents flow through the ground, and since the ground is not a perfect conductor it sets up these high gradients. This is the source of electricity for the TK device.


The Tariel Kapanadze grounding wire is used to bring the potential from another location to the device's location.   I think over in the former soviet union,(and also former east block countries) you can see from the videos that the infrastructure is quite poor and neglected.  So I imagine they have plenty of ground currents to tap into.

EM
 

P.S.  picture from:  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_potential_rise

Read this document as well:   http://stepandtouch.com/resources/step_and_touch_whitepaper.pdf
« Last Edit: 2013-05-11, 04:02:32 by EMdevices »
   
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Having read the suggested links and papers, I will have to respectfully disagree with your latest so called "explanation" of the TK device.

First, you would have to tap into two points exactly co-linear to the ground current to extract usable power. Points perpendicular to this would be a "null". While one of the early videos did show two grounds, all of the later ones involved only one ground wire.

Second, this may be true for short term or temporary fault conditions but these conditions are usually quickly corrected. No one could count on where and when this happens.

Third, it is a very local condition and loses considerable effect with distance. We see no substations in the video's, rather we see a very primitive overhead distribution system.

Fourth, ground faults need to be quickly corrected or would result in an enormous waste of power. No self respecting generating plant would tolerate those losses on a continuous basis without correcting them because it costs them money to generate that lost power!, and lost profits are strictly not tolerated.
Georgia is a poor country and could not afford that waste on a continuous basis.

Fifth, in the videos we see no effort to protect any of the persons as would be required in the paper you reference.

If not corrected for the long term, and for that much current to be flowing continuously, the ground would be literally cooking, the worms would be coming to the surface and it would be time to go fishing.

Everyone in Georgia would be required to walk around with insulated boots.

Better to go back to your power line extraction theory, it is  extremely far fetched but more plausible. Or maybe you could combine the two into a new theory requiring HT overhead lines and ground faults for a one size fits all OU devices explanation.
« Last Edit: 2013-05-11, 21:40:03 by ION »


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A friend of mine who works with railway switch gear once said, ground faults in the rail systems are regularly checked, if a problems was left to continue metal structures/beams in the sourrounding buildings would start to literally migrate.
   
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Quote
...the ground would be literally cooking, the worms would be coming to the surface and it would be time to go fishing.

  that's really funny ION!   ;D

Good point about the grounding location.  It has to be along the flow of current, not at 90 degrees to it.  I imagine these guys tried a few grounds before deciding on which is better.

Of course I'm not saying he extracts power from a substation ground fault, that was to illustrate the idea of gradients across the ground due to GROUND CURRENTS,  which are always present around power lines especially in the dilapidated parts of the worlds.

Over there they don't use a third grounding wire, and you can be shocked badly touching the metal frame of some equipment.  It's really bad, the whole region is one big ground fault!   ;)

Peterae,


Quote
..would start to literally migrate
   as in the Lorentz force is so strong it moved the rails?   
 
   
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A long wire running parallel to power lines, picks up quite a bit of voltage through induction.  The levels can be quite deadly and precautions need to be taken. 

 Here's some advice from the Bonneville Power Administration (BPA) about wire fences.

WIRE FENCES
Barbed wire and woven wire fences insulated from
ground on wood posts can assume an induced
voltage when located near power lines. If you are
having a shock-related problem, call BPA for an
investigation. The fence may need to be
grounded if:
it is located within the right-of-way;
it parallels the line within 125 feet of the outside
wire and is longer than 150 feet; or
it parallels the line 125 to 250 feet from the
outside wire and is longer than 6,000 feet.
These fences should be grounded at each end
and every 200 feet with a metal post driven at
least 2 feet into the ground. Attach all wire strands
of the fence to the metal post.


taken from page 6  (  http://transmission.bpa.gov/lancom/Living_and_Working_Around_High_Voltage_Power_Lines_11-07.pdf)


Although the above references high voltage levels, a simple backyard wire can show a few volts of induced voltage depending on one's location.   In my back yard 10 meters of cable along a north south trajectory picks up quite a few volts, but in other directions it does not, so orientation is important.

EM
   

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Of course with cattle fence one doesn't need power lines around to feel the country feeling.


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We'd be better off if we cast well-known explanations, and seek to explain how it might work if it indeed does.
   
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There is no doubt a voltage is generated from parallel induction. The real question is: how much current can be delivered steady state. Your voltmeter probably has a 10 Meg input impedance on the voltage range, so only microamperes are needed to get a reading. Load the input to the meter with a 1k ohm resistor and now measure.

The co-efficient of coupling of the parallel lines is quite poor so it can't deliver appreciable current unless the frequency is very high. Not much current can be delivered at 50 / 60 Hz.


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Ion, I think there is quite a bit of current in TK's setup, that's why he uses nice thick copper cables to a well grounded (buried) metallic object, for low resistance, since the currents are quite high but at low voltage perhaps.



All,

I drew this diagram to illustrate how simple his setup really is. Enjoy!

 I almost think it's just a resonant converter (which can nicely match a high impedance load to a low impedance source, which appears to be his ground cable, completing the circuit through capacitance back to ground.   Or maybe not, because we can't see inside the green box.    I wish he would open that green box because there will always be doubt about hidden batteries.  In that volume, one can hide so much power.  I just bought an electric lawn mower, which comes with a nice lithium battery pack that's no bigger than my hand, yet packs almost 200 watt-hours of energy, and if I had two of these inside that volume, I could light 4 light bulbs, each 100 watts, for about an hour, and he does not even do that much in the video, he just turns the lights ON for a little bit than OFF.   A very poor test in my opinion.

But I still think his device is real, because I read his patent application and I understand he is tapping in the 50 Hz stray fields/currents from the electric grid through that ground cable.


EM

PS,  Notice that the load is on the secondary, which has FEW turns, to increase the current.  This is why I have been saying that those replications (ikako) seem suspect, because the spark gap feeds the short turn coil.  This is not a Tesla coil, it's just two coils, primary with lots of turns takes high voltage pulses through the spark gap and resonates (perhaps with capacitors inside the green box) and the high magnetic field then cuts the few turns of the secondary and drives the load with high current but lower voltage, which is OK, because the primary has kilo volts on it.
   

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In a Tesla Reciever (for the magnifying transmitter) the load is on the the coil that you term the "secondary", but tesla calls it the primary.

Tesla had a spark gap on this load coil.  He didn't always use a capacitive terminal, per his notes, stating too much capacitance is detrimental.   "a" is a detector.

The battery is not in all reciever circuits, and he tried many different versions.
   
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Apparently not unlike the early battery biased crystal detectors, the battery was used for two purposes.

1. Biasing the spark gap near the break-over voltage. This would make the receiver more sensitive. Note: the object was to produce a spark when the transmitter sparked.
2. When the spark did happen, the stronger battery current would also flow across the spark gap creating a stronger oscillation. - Once the gap ionization was made even lower voltages could bridge the gap.

I understand his statement about detrimental capacitance to be a reference to having too much capacity on the antenna-side. many of his primaries are apparent distributed capacitance rather than inductive coupling.

Case in-point: the obviously very loose inductive coupling on the discussed devices of the heavier gauge coil would prevent any appreciable power transfer with simple inductive coupling to another winding. In most of these examples that coil is only connected on one end. This leaves it to be nothing more than distributed capacitance.

 
   

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Very good, EM!
Ion, I think there is quite a bit of current in TK's setup, that's why he uses nice thick copper cables to a well grounded (buried) metallic object, for low resistance, since the currents are quite high but at low voltage perhaps.



All,

I drew this diagram to illustrate how simple his setup really is. Enjoy!

 I almost think it's just a resonant converter (which can nicely match a high impedance load to a low impedance source, which appears to be his ground cable, completing the circuit through capacitance back to ground.   Or maybe not, because we can't see inside the green box.    I wish he would open that green box because there will always be doubt about hidden batteries.  In that volume, one can hide so much power.  I just bought an electric lawn mower, which comes with a nice lithium battery pack that's no bigger than my hand, yet packs almost 200 watt-hours of energy, and if I had two of these inside that volume, I could light 4 light bulbs, each 100 watts, for about an hour, and he does not even do that much in the video, he just turns the lights ON for a little bit than OFF.   A very poor test in my opinion.

But I still think his device is real, because I read his patent application and I understand he is tapping in the 50 Hz stray fields/currents from the electric grid through that ground cable.


EM

PS,  Notice that the load is on the secondary, which has FEW turns, to increase the current.  This is why I have been saying that those replications (ikako) seem suspect, because the spark gap feeds the short turn coil.  This is not a Tesla coil, it's just two coils, primary with lots of turns takes high voltage pulses through the spark gap and resonates (perhaps with capacitors inside the green box) and the high magnetic field then cuts the few turns of the secondary and drives the load with high current but lower voltage, which is OK, because the primary has kilo volts on it.


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Thanks GK


Guys,

I measure a DC voltage across the ground surface in my back yard.

I measured it across my back yard in various places, and it appears I can get close to 1 volt DC.   ( The ground connection is a tent spike, about 1 ft long,  and the ground is kind of dry today.)

I tried a few pipes and electrical grounds around the house, and they all produce a voltage difference to the spike of around 0.75 volts, but outside by the telephone cover I get close to 1 volt.  

Could this be a galvanic phenomena?  Or truly a DC ground potential due to DC currents flowing East to West across an imperfect ground resistance (which sets up the voltage difference?)  Is this what Stubblefield was doing?

Now I'm confused,  I think in the TK video, we see him burying the radiator deep in the ground, then we also see his connection to the water pipe,  so I think he is using two wires, not just one ground wire.  If that's the case, problem solved, his whole contraption is just an oscillator/inverter powered from low voltage DC currents that flow in the ground.   :-\

EM

edit:  I measured the voltage difference between the ground spike and another pipe I beat into the ground at different distances away  (made of stainless steel).   There is a difference in potential with separation distance, but it's less than 10% of the value, which makes me think that I'm dealing with GALVANIC action, a.k.a earth battery. So much for the earth currents traveling East West theory.   lol   :D
BTW, the ground is very dense and there's lots of clay.
« Last Edit: 2013-05-19, 20:09:28 by EMdevices »
   
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A friend of mine who works with railway switch gear once said, ground faults in the rail systems are regularly checked, if a problems was left to continue metal structures/beams in the sourrounding buildings would start to literally migrate.
@all on this thread for the last few posts...

Incomplete and faultly insulation is certainly a problem in municipal transportation systems.   True story follows...
      I was crossing the tracks of the local light rail system in San Francisco where I live.   To get past a fence separating both tracks without climbing it, I had to squeeze between the fence and a rail power pole carrying power to the electric trains---which was electrified to a standard 600 VAC @ 60 Hz.   As I did this, a train approached on the tracks and vibrations in the single(hot) line between it and the support insulators caused a partial short to travel down the pole and through me for about 1 second before I could leave the pole.   That didn't feel good, to say the least!!!   A dead short through my heart and whole body would fry me like a hamburger on a grill set on the hghest temperature.
       My point is:  Rail systems aren't always kept up in quality control, especially in a city in financially-strapped Calif.   Also, the 60 Hz mains power can be tapped into easily if one uses a ground rod or inductively coupled coil.

--Lee
   
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