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OverUnity Research > Benches > PhysicsProf (Moderator: PhysicsProf) > Jack Noskills' Dual-Trafo Device with Replications, esp. Wattsup
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Author Topic: Jack Noskills' Dual-Trafo Device with Replications, esp. Wattsup  (Read 6767 times)
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img  PhysicsProf
Jack Noskills' Dual-Trafo Device with Replications, esp. Wattsup « on: 2012-07-14, 16:39:05 »
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  We've seen claims of ou before...  mostly without verifying replications.  However, this simple dual-trafo device proposed by Jack Noskills has now been replicated (with variation on the circuit) yesterday 13 July 2012, by Wattsup.

Jack's initial sharing of this circuit was at the Don Smith thread at EF, #6597 on 3 July.  Then he started a thread at OU where Wattsup and I and others have joined the discussion:
http://www.overunity.com/12487/simple-to-build-isolation-transformer-that-consumes-less-power-than-it-gives-out/75/

Jack's initial circuit diagram is shown below; variations in the last ten days have proceeded -- including addition of a cap and diode, as seen in Wattsup's replication:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGVWXMmMs1o&feature=youtu.be    --  nice vid, Wattsup!

Wattsup writes at ou (thread above):
Quote
MAINS: REGULAR WALL PLUG
VARIAC AT FULL: SUPERIOR ELECTRIC MODEL BP5715
INPUT A: 121.9 VAC @ 0.24A = 29.259 WATTS
OUTPUT B: 57.7 VAC @ O.5A = 28.85 WATTS
OUTPUT C: 43.3VDC @ 0.25A = 10.825 WATTS
TOTAL OUTPUT: 39.675 WATTS
HE HE HE that does not include the heat dissipation of the hand burning bulb.
This is crazy.

This will be up soon;
http://youtu.be/HGVWXMmMs1o

Enjoy.

wattsup

Attached is the circuit diagram by Wattsup; thanks for sharing, Jack and Wattsup!

Critical comments are invited as we proceed.  I am also working on a replication.

 
   
img  Farmhand
Re: Jack Noskills' Dual-Trafo Device with Replications, esp. Wattsup « Reply #1 on: 2012-07-14, 21:06:11 »
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I often wonder why when anomalous outputs appear when people are using the grid power for supply
if it is a measurement error. I would power the whole setup from an inverter with a known idle/overhead
power consumption and measure the power out of the battery minus the overhead. Then I would rectify
all the output, and power bulbs or something from DC and measure the output.

AC measurements, especially the current (with clamp meters) and even direct current with clamp meters
is dubious or "close" most times. If they think the setup is OU they should test the in-out better.

If a measurement is close for me I use the same volt meter for everything ( so no variance ) measuring DC voltage
and use resistors to measure current. So far every time that clears the issue up.

Personally I think it takes great skill and good equipment to measure AC power accurately.

Cheers   
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Jack Noskills' Dual-Trafo Device with Replications, esp. Wattsup « Reply #2 on: 2012-07-15, 00:25:35 »
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   Yes, there are ways to check the input and output power measurements and it is important to try different methods.

WRT the input power, I suggested to Wattsup over at OU,
Quote
You might use a watt-meter (e.g. Kill-A-Watt) on the input power also, as a check.

What do you think of that?   I like your idea of running from a battery (measuring DC power in) + inverter as a further check.

WRT to the output power, I asked Wattsup:

Quote
Have you tried rectifying BOTH outputs?

Which would permit DC power measurements of course.  I also like calorimetric methods for measuring Pout, as we've discussed elsewhere.






Also, why not run straight from the mains?

Have you tried rectifying BOTH outputs?
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Jack Noskills' Dual-Trafo Device with Replications, esp. Wattsup « Reply #3 on: 2012-07-15, 06:52:00 »
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Update:   Wattsup  found that his clamp-on ammeter for the DC output was misleading...  he has corrected himself quickly (at OU.com):

Quote
So from suggestions of @JouleSeeker to use a Kill-a-Watt counter, I got one today.

And also @MH's post;
Quote
Quote from: MileHigh on July 14, 2012, 04:47:18 PM

    Wattsup:
    For your DC current measurement you are at nearly the rock-bottom output from the digital clamp meter.  Hence your accuracy is very poor.  I would suggest that you just use a regular digital multimeter or an analog ammeter with the proper maximum scale to get a better DC power calculation.
    MileHigh

So I put the DC output through a multimeter as amps and to my greatest dismay, I saw only 45.5mA. I also took off the Variac and went direct to mains via the Watt Counter.

So while the system is running, with the regular clamp meter on the dc load, I am getting 0.2 amps but through the multimeter, I am getting 45.5mA. There is a great discrepancy between these two so @MH was more then right about that and good thing he caught it so quickly. Thanks man. I was wondering why the bulb was so dim with that voltage at .2 amps it should have been brighter then that, but when I saw .2 amps and did the math, hey, of course it looked good. We try to do our best efforts by the book, but sometimes things can get past us.

So here is a recap of the new numbers;
INPUT VIA WATT COUNTER: 121VAC @ 0.27 AMPS OR 32 WATTS
INPUT by meters A: 121.9 VAC @ 0.24A = 29.259 WATTS
OUTPUT B: 57.3 VAC @ O.47A = 26.93 WATTS
OUTPUT C: 43.1VDC @ 0.0443A = 1.90933 WATTS
TOTAL OUTPUT: 28.83933 WATTS

I put a small video here but it is still uploading (2hrs left);
http://youtu.be/F7MH7TgCxao

So back to the drawing board. I think my new transformers should be in by Monday so I will play around with this some more and see what gives. I think guys with clamp on ammeters that only provide one decimal point precision at low amp readings is not enough and can easily lead one to see OU where it is not, YET that is.

Soon.

wattsup
   
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