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OverUnity Research > Electrical / Electronic Devices > Inductive Kickback Circuits > The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit
2024-11-27, 22:44:51
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Author Topic: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit  (Read 477223 times)
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img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #675 on: 2013-06-18, 13:35:10 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: tinman on 2013-06-17, 23:53:34
Well i havnt followed her work befor,but i was expecting more of a circuit?. Are we simply trying to blow up some mosfet's here,or flatten some batteries?.
@ Poynt
What is the offset and frequency of the wave?.
Frequency can be anything from 1 Hz to a few kHz. Use a 5% to 10% duty cycle. Amplitude is about +/- 14V measured open circuit.


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #676 on: 2013-06-18, 13:36:31 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: tinman on 2013-06-18, 10:52:33
Do we have to use those very mosfet's or can we use similar?. I have a heap of 40 amp fet's ,if they will do.
These PG50's are slow and exhibit a lot of internal capacitance. They are expensive and a little hard to come by though. Try whatever you have, it should work.


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  tinman
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #677 on: 2013-06-18, 14:11:07 »
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@ Poynt
Is the circuit correct on post 669?. How is the source grounded on the Q2 bank?-surely not through the SG.
I must be having a dumb moment here  ???
   
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Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #678 on: 2013-06-18, 15:32:01 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Brad,

The circuit is correct, yes. What began as an attempt to fortify the MOSFET switch by adding 4 more in parallel, ended up being a miswiring of swapping the S and G leads, and thus the circuit was born. It oscillated for one polarity of the input cycle, and switched on the load for the other polarity.

Yes, one polarity of drive causes a small current to go through the function generator (FG). Rose denies this is happening, and is one of the items I intend on demonstrating.


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #679 on: 2013-06-19, 03:19:06 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Have finished the build and ran a few preliminary tests. Will post results over the next several days.

Here are a few pics of the setup. It ain't pretty, but that's what makes it work so good.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  tinman
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #680 on: 2013-06-20, 15:11:37 »
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-Hi Poynt
Very nice scope there-4 channel's would come in handy.
I have solved one part of the math on my scope-have found out how to select the math trace for measurement. Now all i have to do is work out were to find the result's of that trace.. C.C
 Ok-my first go at this circuit resulted in a toasted Q1 in about 80 seconds. FG set to 1.5kHz,10% duty cycle with an amplitude of +/- 12 volt's.
I was also only running on 36 volt's(3 batteries the same as yours), but i don't have the coils of wire in the battery connections like yours-and the rest of the wiring is very short. Do we need all that extra wire for the inductance you would get from it?,which has an effect on the way the circuit reacts?.
   
img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #681 on: 2013-06-21, 04:28:33 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Hey Brad, let me know what you found with your scope. How did you select the math trace for measurement?

Re, the RA circuit, you don't need to insert discrete inductors in there, just use excessive wiring as I have. Not sure why your FET blew. Did the load get hot too?


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  tinman
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #682 on: 2013-06-21, 11:32:28 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2013-06-21, 04:28:33
Hey Brad, let me know what you found with your scope. How did you select the math trace for measurement?

Re, the RA circuit, you don't need to insert discrete inductors in there, just use excessive wiring as I have. Not sure why your FET blew. Did the load get hot too?
Hi Darren
In regards to the math on the scope. You have to use acquire to select the math trace as the trace to be measured,not measure.You then have to select !all measurements! in the measure menu on page two. You can then select between channel A,B, math,ref A and ref B. You can then select time and voltage,and this brings up all the measurements of that trace-EG,on time,off time,voltage for on,voltage for off-all that stuff. From this i can easily work out voltage across the resistor for the % of time on per cycle.

Now as far as the circuit go's. I am using an old heater element from a small electric fan heater,and yes it got very hot-to hot to touch.But i don't think it will be in the uH you recommended in your circuit. Also,what is the purpose of the 4 Q2's?. Is there 4 of them to increase some small amount of capacitance they may have?-just like the transistors workings in the cool joule?.
   
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Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #683 on: 2013-06-21, 13:16:46 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
That's great news about the scope Brad. Let me know if and when you want to go over that measurement procedure.

The 4 Q2's were originally to beef up Q1, but they were miswired. You only need to use 1 Q2 as I am doing.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  tinman
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #684 on: 2013-06-21, 13:50:43 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2013-06-21, 13:16:46
That's great news about the scope Brad. Let me know if and when you want to go over that measurement procedure.

The 4 Q2's were originally to beef up Q1, but they were miswired. You only need to use 1 Q2 as I am doing.
Ok,i have found out why the fet blew,and the problem has been corrected.
 And yes on the measurement procedure Poynt.I will give it a shot myself first,and see how i go. Then we will arange a time to go over my measurements together. I will ofcourse post the results -good or ordinary lol.
   
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Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #685 on: 2013-07-22, 14:22:31 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Here I've done an important video segment illustrating an often-encountered problem when doing power measurements on switching type circuits...GROUNDING!

A test involving a function generator and an oscilloscope is going to be troublesome, particularly when wanting to measure multiple components in the circuit. The two pieces of equipment must be isolated by some means; either by lifting the earth ground on the FG or using differential scope probes. I chose the former as will most folks attempting these measurements.

With the FG reference lead isolated from the oscilloscope's reference leads, the scope probes can be placed anywhere in the circuit in order to accurately and safely perform specific power measurements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rtuSwfs-90


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #686 on: 2013-07-22, 14:23:49 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
This next segment illustrates the correct location for the FG's reference lead. Previously it was connected in such a way to bypass the CSR and would therefore not capture any current the FG may be passing through the circuit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_ZK6OPJLl4


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #687 on: 2013-07-22, 14:24:19 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
In this segment I do yet another Pbat measurement, or 3 rather.

With the FG earth ground isolated and its reference located at the proper connection point in the circuit, we explore 3 different Pbat measurements; 1) with parasitic inductance between the CSR probes (negative mean power), 2) without parasitic inductance affecting the CSR measurement (positive mean Pbat and closer to actual value), and 3) the correct measurement without parasitic inductance affecting the CSR and Vbat measurements (positive Pbat and correct value).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXdsXvq6QAs


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #688 on: 2013-07-22, 17:11:59 »
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hi Poynt,

Can you explain why the channels reference must be at the same point?  For example, why can't TP1,2 for battery and TP5,4 for CSR with TP1,5 as probe reference.

Second,  it seems that most parasitic inductance is avoided.  Can you provide a CSR root mean squared current to compute load power.
   
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Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #689 on: 2013-07-22, 17:57:16 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Gibbs,

Watch the videos, I explain it there.

The reference leads of the scope and FG are tied to chassis gnd, which in turn are tied to earth ground, meaning the two reference leads are tied together. If you apply each reference lead to a different point in the circuit, you are going to essentially short out a component, or number of components.

Yes, you can take the RMS of the CSR voltage, convert it to current, square it and multiply this by the hot resistance of the load. You then have Pload.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #690 on: 2013-07-22, 22:15:07 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2013-07-22, 17:57:16
Gibbs,

Watch the videos, I explain it there.

The reference leads of the scope and FG are tied to chassis gnd, which in turn are tied to earth ground, meaning the two reference leads are tied together. If you apply each reference lead to a different point in the circuit, you are going to essentially short out a component, or number of components.

Yes, you can take the RMS of the CSR voltage, convert it to current, square it and multiply this by the hot resistance of the load. You then have Pload.

I just thought you took out the ground, so it doesn't matter.  But ok.

Yes, I like to know the RMS to check for OU.
   
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Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #691 on: 2013-07-23, 00:28:20 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Two potential sources of measurement error are examined; parasitic inductance (we've looked at previously) and induced emf in the scope probe ref leads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQKm0qVUCkk


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #692 on: 2013-07-23, 00:29:26 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2013-07-22, 22:15:07
I just thought you took out the ground, so it doesn't matter.  But ok.

Yes, I like to know the RMS to check for OU.

Yes I did. So now only the scope references have to be tied to the same point.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #693 on: 2013-07-23, 01:35:51 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Here we attempt to get a more accurate measurement for Pbat by using a makeshift Kelvin probe across the original CSR located close to the circuit.

Two outcomes: 1) the mean Pbat changes from negative to positive, even when the Kelvin probe is widely-spaced across the CSR, and 2) the magnitude is high but close to the actual value. The remaining discrepancy is most likely due to the parasitic inductance between the battery + terminal and the actual TP3 measurement point for Vbat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wctTbyqTj1A


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #694 on: 2013-07-26, 20:13:32 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Next we obtain the measurement of power from the function generator (FG).

http://youtu.be/s1ytR1uu8TM


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #695 on: 2013-07-27, 06:10:44 »
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So the function generator requires about 55 watts to operate (guessing it's for electrical components that makes the FG works as an integrated system).  Running the circuit consume another 5 watts, but only .5 watts is used to turn on and off Q1, Q2.  Of course this .5 watts does not go through the battery or load resistor since the circuit is off (battery disconnected).  When the circuit is on, the power consumption of the FG remains almost identical.  We can say that almost no power from the FG contribute to the load resistor at any time.
   
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Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #696 on: 2013-07-27, 17:02:28 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2013-07-27, 06:10:44
So the function generator requires about 55 watts to operate (guessing it's for electrical components that makes the FG works as an integrated system).  Running the circuit consume another 5 watts, but only .5 watts is used to turn on and off Q1, Q2.  Of course this .5 watts does not go through the battery or load resistor since the circuit is off (battery disconnected).  When the circuit is on, the power consumption of the FG remains almost identical.  We can say that almost no power from the FG contribute to the load resistor at any time.


Not quite. When the battery is connected and q2 is on, the fg is in series with the battery.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #697 on: 2013-07-28, 02:06:24 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2013-07-27, 17:02:28
Not quite. When the battery is connected and q2 is on, the fg is in series with the battery.

So how much power you think the FG enter the load resistor roughly?
   
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Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #698 on: 2013-07-28, 16:37:41 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
0.5W max. But the fg consumes 3 watt total.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #699 on: 2013-07-28, 17:56:08 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2013-07-28, 16:37:41
0.5W max. But the fg consumes 3 watt total.

The 3 watts consumption of the FG is the same category as the 55 watts consumption to just operate the FG.

The reason we can't say .5W is because turning on and off Q1, Q2 require power.  If .5W of the FG enter the load resistor, then something has to provide power to turn the MOSFETs and it has to be the battery in this case.  Either way, the net result is null for the FG unless it doesn't require power to turn on and off Q1 Q2 when the circuit is on.
   
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