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OverUnity Research > Electrical / Electronic Devices > Inductive Kickback Circuits > The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit
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Author Topic: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit  (Read 477229 times)
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img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #650 on: 2012-04-29, 13:46:08 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012-04-29, 05:17:17
The CSR measurement indicated that watt x time for the discharge is less than watt x time for the charging.
It did?

Please show us where.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #651 on: 2012-04-29, 13:48:47 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012-04-29, 11:50:06
When the current flows inside a component from the positive terminal to the negative terminal, the component is a receiver, it consumes energy. When the current flows from the negative terminal to the positive terminal, the component is a generator, it provides energy.
The power being voltage times current, it is perfectly logic that the power is positive or negative, depending on the convention we took for the current direction. The power is negative for a generator providing energy, positive for a receiver consuming energy.
O0


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #652 on: 2012-04-29, 15:26:41 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2012-04-29, 13:46:08
It did?

Please show us where.



It's probably easier to be done on the sim.  You can take the blue trace (CSR waveform), squared that waveform and take the average.  

Actually, you have to maintain the positive region and negative region by yourself because the squared would makes it all positive.

I did some rough calculation.  Taken data at half grid time interval.

Positive curve:  1, 1.3, 1.3, 1.3, 1.3, 1.3, 1.3,1 , 1      Squared value:  1, 1.69, 1.69, 1.69, 1.69, 1.69, 1.69, 1, 1
Negative curve: 1, 1.5, 2.5, 2.3, 1.5                          Squared value:  1, 2.25, 6.25, 5.29, 2.25

Positive total: 13.4
Negative total: 17

Notice I took less data point for negative to be conservative.
   
img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #653 on: 2012-04-29, 15:54:00 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012-04-29, 15:26:41
It's probably easier to be done on the sim.  You can take the blue trace (CSR waveform), squared that waveform and take the average.  

Where on earth did you get that idea?

You don't square anything there mate. You simply sum and average a large number of samples within one cycle.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #654 on: 2012-04-29, 16:03:04 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2012-04-29, 15:54:00
Where on earth did you get that idea?

You don't square anything there mate. You simply sum and average a large number of samples within one cycle.


That is... my idea. lol

Seems like you're not following what I'm talking about.  You want to know the energy dissipate in the CRS in the discharge and charging.  Can you calculate the energy dissipate in the CSR?  The sim can calculate the CSR energy easily, but it cannot tell you how much dissipate when current is positive and and negative.  The sim just add the two together.
   
img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #655 on: 2012-04-29, 16:18:57 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012-04-29, 16:03:04
You want to know the energy dissipate in the CRS in the discharge and charging.
Actually no. We want to know which direction the average current is flowing.

Quote
Can you calculate the energy dissipate in the CSR?
Of course, with ease.

Quote
The sim can calculate the CSR energy easily, but it cannot tell you how much dissipate when current is positive and and negative.  The sim just add the two together.
I guess you're not that familiar with simulation software? Of course the sim can tell you both positive and negative power dissipation, I plot this all the time. It is the first step in obtaining the average power dissipated.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #656 on: 2012-04-29, 16:30:46 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2012-04-29, 16:18:57
Actually no. We want to know which direction the average current is flowing.
Of course, with ease.
I guess you're not that familiar with simulation software? Of course the sim can tell you both positive and negative power dissipation, I plot this all the time. It is the first step in obtaining the average power dissipated.


The direction of average current flowing indicate the amount of charge.  I want to show you that the energy watt x time for the two direction of current is different and more energy is seen in the current reverse.  This is what you want me to show you.  Let's get our point across with a simple demonstration.

The graph below shows a current going through a resistor of 1 Ohm.  Let's say the time for positive and negative is 1 second.

What is the energy for the whole cycle?
What is the energy for positive cycle?
What is the energy for the negative cycle?

Now apply how you find these value to the CRS trace.
   
img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #657 on: 2012-04-29, 18:17:49 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012-04-29, 16:30:46
I want to show you that the energy watt x time for the two direction of current is different and more energy is seen in the current reverse.
Are you referring to the scope shot I posted? If so, you are correct in that it would appear more energy is going to the battery than what is coming out.

But look at the CSR trace by itself. If you were to do an average on it (which you have not done, and I have not shown), you would see that the average net current is from the battery. In other words, the battery is net discharging.

The reason the power computation turns out negative using the battery voltage trace and CSR trace, is because the battery voltage trace is not correct.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #658 on: 2012-04-29, 18:25:02 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2012-04-29, 18:17:49
Are you referring to the scope shot I posted? If so, you are correct in that it would appear more energy is going to the battery than what is coming out.

But look at the CSR trace by itself. If you were to do an average on it (which you have not done, and I have not shown), you would see that the average net current is from the battery. In other words, the battery is net discharging.

The reason the power computation turns out negative using the battery voltage trace and CSR trace, is because the battery voltage trace is not correct.

Yes, the battery is discharging, I never argue that.

Why do you say the voltage trace is not correct?  Are you saying it's super impose AC and is not a real current?  Just a guess.

I mean you don't need to compute battery to know the negative wattage, just compare the CSR out going energy and back energy. 
« Last Edit: 2012-04-29, 18:53:20 by GibbsHelmholtz »
   
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Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #659 on: 2012-04-29, 19:26:40 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012-04-29, 18:25:02
Why do you say the voltage trace is not correct?
See the attached schematic. The battery voltage trace was obtained from point "7". That is not the correct place, but that is where the RATs are measuring it from, and so I replicate this error for demonstrative purposes.

Quote
I mean you don't need to compute battery to know the negative wattage, just compare the CSR out going energy and back energy.  
You still don't understand. If you compute the CSR wattage, it will indicate that the battery is discharging. However, if you compute the battery power using the CSR voltage and battery voltage from point 7 on the diagram, you obtain results that say the battery is charging, and this is not correct.

Is it clear now?

PS. Yes I know the CSR value of 0.25 Ohms has not been accounted for in the power computation.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #660 on: 2012-04-29, 23:14:17 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2012-04-29, 19:26:40
See the attached schematic. The battery voltage trace was obtained from point "7". That is not the correct place, but that is where the RATs are measuring it from, and so I replicate this error for demonstrative purposes.
You still don't understand. If you compute the CSR wattage, it will indicate that the battery is discharging. However, if you compute the battery power using the CSR voltage and battery voltage from point 7 on the diagram, you obtain results that say the battery is charging, and this is not correct.

Is it clear now?

PS. Yes I know the CSR value of 0.25 Ohms has not been accounted for in the power computation.

When you move from point 7 to point 1, you only reduce the inductance and resistance, making the amplitude go down, but the measurement cannot turn positive, but we'll see in the real test.

Poynt, negative wattage doesn't mean battery is charging.  It is just your assumption. 

   
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Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #661 on: 2012-04-30, 02:11:26 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012-04-29, 23:14:17
When you move from point 7 to point 1, you only reduce the inductance and resistance, making the amplitude go down, but the measurement cannot turn positive, but we'll see in the real test.
It does change to positive. Why can't it?

Quote
Poynt, negative wattage doesn't mean battery is charging.  It is just your assumption.  
Technically in this scenario, you are correct. But those that are not familiar enough with electronics would (and are) make that assumption. If the measurement was performed correctly however and the polarity was negative, this would indicate the battery is being charged.

Sources have a negative power polarity, and anything that dissipates power (or acquires charge given a battery or capacitor) has a positive power polarity. The reason the polarities are reversed in the measurements we are doing, is because the battery voltage measurement probes are inverted.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #662 on: 2012-04-30, 02:50:18 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2012-04-30, 02:11:26

Technically in this scenario, you are correct. But those that are not familiar enough with electronics would (and are) make that assumption. If the measurement was performed correctly however and the polarity was negative, this would indicate the battery is being charged.



What I mean is if the measurement was performed correctly and the polarity still negative, the battery still drain.  Battery charging depends on the net amount of charge, energy depends on the rate of charge. 

Nvm, what on my mind right now is a scenario that possibly going on in that circuit.  Suppose if we have a charged capacitor and a resistor, when connect them, energy of 1/2CV^2 is dissipated at the resistor.  If somehow we could make the cap discharge faster for the same resistance, we have more energy.   Possibly with the aid of external magnetic field we could, but still brain storming.
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #663 on: 2012-05-01, 11:19:25 »
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Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012-04-29, 16:30:46

The direction of average current flowing indicate the amount of charge.  I want to show you that the energy watt x time for the two direction of current is different and more energy is seen in the current reverse.  This is what you want me to show you.  Let's get our point across with a simple demonstration.

The graph below shows a current going through a resistor of 1 Ohm.  Let's say the time for positive and negative is 1 second.

What is the energy for the whole cycle?
What is the energy for positive cycle?
What is the energy for the negative cycle?

Now apply how you find these value to the CRS trace.


t=1s, I=+/- 1A, V=+/- 1V because R=1 ohm so:
The energy for positive cycle is 1 * 1 = 1W
The energy for the negative cycle is -1 * -1 = 1W
The energy for the whole cycle is 1 + 1 = 2W.

It is only the integral of the instantaneous V*I product. Simulation softwares do it easily.
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #664 on: 2012-05-01, 11:30:34 »
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Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012-04-30, 02:50:18
What I mean is if the measurement was performed correctly and the polarity still negative, the battery still drain.  Battery charging depends on the net amount of charge, energy depends on the rate of charge.  
...

If the measurement is correctly performed and the integral over time of U * I product is positive, the battery is charging during the time of integration.
   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #665 on: 2012-05-01, 14:07:06 »
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Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012-05-01, 11:30:34
If the measurement is correctly performed and the integral over time of U * I product is positive, the battery is charging during the time of integration.



I don't think the battery charge or discharge depends on U*I . 

I think I know how to make a charged capacitor have less or more heat when discharge it through a fix resistance.  Imagine a cap connecting to a coil and resistance.  If we have the external magnetic field cutting through the coil while the cap discharging, we can cause more or less current flow through the resistance until the cap is empty.  It's all KVL.  However, energy will be spent on the external magnetic field to make this happens.  You can completely discharge the cap without any heating at all.  Simply makes the magnetic field cutting such that it induce a slightly less voltage than the cap, then current would be so small that I^2R is nothing during the discharge time.  The time would be longer, but the energy spent on the magnetic field is also relatively nothing.  Uh... where did all the energy go?
   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #666 on: 2012-05-01, 14:43:39 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2012-04-30, 02:11:26

It does change to positive. Why can't it?



I've read TK result that this is the case.  I think both you and Exn. are right that charging depends on U*I and it would change to positive in this case.  Once we have a strong confirmation from TK I'll give you both the credits. 

   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #667 on: 2012-05-02, 01:21:37 »
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Now that I've seen TK video, I'm confident that Poynt and Exn. are right.  The extra wire would act as impedance and increase the voltage proportional to the current flow.  If we just measure across the battery, no matter what the rate of charge is, the voltage remains constant because the battery able to absorb large current without fluctuating its voltage. 

We can also see this with math analysis.  If the battery voltage remains constant, then the mean power, averaging U*I would be:

AVE [ Vbat x VCRS]

since Vbat is constant, it can be factored outside and becomes:

Vbat x AVE [VCRS]

The positive or negative mean power would then just depends on the average of the CRS waveform.  Since we already discussed that CRS waveform has more positive area, it naturally be that the mean power is positive.

Having seen this, we should be able to agree that in order for battery to be recharging, the AVE[VCRS] has to be negative.  If Rosemary or any replication able to achieve a negative average CRS waveform, it is OU.  I think I remember Rosemary also achieved this.
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #668 on: 2012-12-12, 14:55:43 »
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From ou.com :
---------------------------------
hartiberlin
Administrator
Hero Member
Posts: 7165
 
Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #5253 on: December 09, 2012, 06:05:12 AM »
I deleted Rosemarie´s new account here after she tried to harrass me at 5:45 in the morning via  a phonecall...

I told her last time, that she can read here , but no more have an account !

Also she runs her own forum, but why does she come back here ??

So she tried to circumvent the rules and got now booted again.

Regards, Stefan. (admin)
----------------------------------------

;D
Stephan Hartmann banned me from ou.com for having said that the Ainslie's circuit was a scam, and now he banned her too.
It takes him almost two years after me to understand that with Ainslie, he faced a madwoman involved in a scam (or should I suppose that it was good for his site buzz and advertisements to keep her so long?).

Nevertheless I'm still banned, and also forbidden from commenting his youtube videos. Not a problem except that I miss discussions with the little percentage of interesting contributors like Verpies whom we see here sometimes, and some others, roughly less than 5% on ou.com, emerging with their valuable works and ideas above noise, conspiracy theories and other severe delusions. I think it would be good for overunityresearch to attract more of them here.

By the way I saw some schematic from me published here and republished now on ou.com by a guy whom I don't know. If Stephan the censor knew it, he would have a stroke. ;D
   
img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #669 on: 2013-06-17, 16:27:24 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
I will be putting together this circuit and performing a number of tests on it shortly.

Note the actual build as per the photos vs. the schematic given. The FG ref lead connection places the FG outside the CSR loop.

Should be interesting in what may develop.  O0


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  BEP
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #670 on: 2013-06-17, 17:26:19 »
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She is still slamming her head against that rock?

Sad  :'(
   
img  poynt99
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #671 on: 2013-06-17, 18:15:44 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Yep, and with more gusto than ever... :D

Here is the latest layout.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  BEP
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #672 on: 2013-06-17, 21:34:02 »
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Damn!

I should have invested in alligator clips  C.C
   
img  tinman
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #673 on: 2013-06-17, 23:53:34 »
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Well i havnt followed her work befor,but i was expecting more of a circuit?. Are we simply trying to blow up some mosfet's here,or flatten some batteries?.
@ Poynt
What is the offset and frequency of the wave?.
   
img  tinman
Re: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit « Reply #674 on: 2013-06-18, 10:52:33 »
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Do we have to use those very mosfet's or can we use similar?. I have a heap of 40 amp fet's ,if they will do.
   
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