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OverUnity Research > Electrical / Electronic Devices > High Voltage (HV) Phenomena > Help Building a special transformer ?
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Author Topic: Help Building a special transformer ?  (Read 85008 times)
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img  Chet K
Help Building a special transformer ? « on: 2012-01-17, 23:57:33 »
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@ALL
I need some guidance [no kiddin Chet!! [MH]

I need to build a variable transformer that can put out 1-2 KW constant duty between 50 -120 hz needs very clean sine wave?

I have been told something like this can be built from available components from scrap heat pumps... or at least get real close with some custom Mods?
Is this possible ?
Plausible?
THX
Chet
   
img  MileHigh
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #1 on: 2012-01-18, 01:06:20 »
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Just go buy a transformer large enough to meet your power requirements.

Any progress with Lucky 7?
   
img  Chet K
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #2 on: 2012-01-18, 02:15:09 »
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MH
Not sure I can buy one of these ,I'm probably not describing it properly?
I suppose a signal generator that put out 2kw at any frequency between 50HZ and 120 HZ would be a better description.Sorta Like a VFO in the ELF range ?

Why you gotta get all "Lucky 7" on me ?? [not sure? IpZee   ItYeah............]
If I can build this transformer we can do it right here ! And I absolutely will test this out!
   
img  MileHigh
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #3 on: 2012-01-18, 02:41:07 »
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Ok, so you are talking about a high-power AC power source that can output a variable-frequency clean sine wave.  It sounds like you are looking for something for Mr. COP 7 if I dare say so.

Perhaps a big fat variable-speed motor connected to a standard generator could do it, as a "hack."  It's a super long shot.

The real thing from some company that makes stuff like this for industry would cost a small fortune.

I really don't see a solution for you Chet.  Walk away or just throw the problem back at the person that is asking you for help.  You are not technical, he is asking the wrong person.  My advice is not not waste your time on this.  You are a good person and you do good things, but this one is not for you.
   
img  Chet K
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #4 on: 2012-01-18, 03:16:24 »
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The equipment that Does this already belongs to the inventor.
Doing this on the cheap is an idea to have others replicate ,And supposedly most of whats necessary lies in the belly of todays modern heat pumps ?[something about bridges, IGBT's and Chewin gum]?

There's no walking away in Baseball..............
And there is no way in Hades I am walking away from this!
I have some design ideas I want to try,But first I want to see "the Goods" !

THX
Chet
   
img  Magluvin
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #5 on: 2012-01-18, 04:23:28 »
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Chet  these days you can find a car audio amp up to 10kw, sub amps mostly.

In the 1kw to 2kw you can find class D amps of decent quality for $500 and up.  May find a deal on ebay. They are near 90% eff compared to bipolar amps. Some can run loads down to 1/2 and 1/4 ohm.

Then you can use your PC as a variable sig gen to the amp. Lots of sig gen software out there.

Why the need for so much input?

Mags
   
img  Magluvin
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #6 on: 2012-01-18, 04:59:26 »
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img  exnihiloest
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #7 on: 2012-01-18, 08:25:09 »
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Quote from: ramset on 2012-01-18, 02:15:09
MH
Not sure I can buy one of these ,I'm probably not describing it properly?
I suppose a signal generator that put out 2kw at any frequency between 50HZ and 120 HZ would be a better description.Sorta Like a VFO in the ELF range ?
...

Use an audio amp (following a signal generator):
http://www.govgroup.com/pyle-audio-pea6000-power-amplifier-2390453-prd1.htm

Be careful about the power that is announced. Only RMS power is significant. Note also that these power amplifiers are designed for a low output impedance, so the output voltage is not very high. An 50 or 60hz ordinary transformer could also be needed to rise the voltage.
   
img  MileHigh
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #8 on: 2012-01-18, 11:32:43 »
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Thanks guys for mentioning car audio amplifiers.  I had recommended that solution to PhysicsProf just a few months ago and it completely slipped my mind.

Car audio is mind-boggling.

1965:  I just got my new all-transistor car radio and it's really boss!  It has 10 watts of pure transistor power!

2012:  My trunk is packed with audio gear.  I am running 5 kilowatts total and 40% of my gas is used so I can listen to my MP3s!
   
img  Peterae
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #9 on: 2012-01-18, 11:47:41 »

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Buy me some coffee
Quote
I am running 5 kilowatts

Crikey i am surprised we don't need TO TYPE IN CAPITALS SO YOU CAN HERE US  >:-)
   
img  Paul-R
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #10 on: 2012-01-18, 14:05:14 »
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Quote from: ramset on 2012-01-18, 02:15:09
I suppose a signal generator that put out 2kw at any frequency between 50HZ and 120 HZ
What quality do you need? For Davey type work, I would imagine low would do.

Could not someone design a simple sig-gen from a chip and then feed it into heavy
duty transistors?

In principle, it should be easy. Hefty heat sinks might be called for.
   
img  Peterae
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #11 on: 2012-01-18, 14:30:19 »

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Buy me some coffee
Keep your eyes open on ebay for a single phase variable frequency drive controller

Something like this is could be what you want
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Inverter-Delta-VFD-015M21A-1-5-kW-Spindle-Motor-NEW-/160715196710?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256b5f4926

maybe this one although it talks about a carrier and i am not sure if this can be turned off or not
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-NEW-3HP-2-2KW-l7-/170636140761?pt=BI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item27bab4e0d9
   
img  Chet K
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #12 on: 2012-01-18, 17:46:26 »
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Thank you all for your contributions!
Everything is still in the works RE "Movies" plus a Transformer build thread!    which is very good news for this project!!
{Big Sigh of relief From Chet}

@Mags Thanks............

Chet
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #13 on: 2012-01-18, 17:57:30 »
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Quote from: ramset on 2012-01-17, 23:57:33
@ALL
I need some guidance [no kiddin Chet!! [MH]

I need to build a variable transformer that can put out 1-2 KW constant duty between 50 -120 hz needs very clean sine wave?

I have been told something like this can be built from available components from scrap heat pumps... or at least get real close with some custom Mods?
Is this possible ?
Plausible?
THX
Chet
Well, for my 2 cents, I wired high voltage transformers onto soda bottles with inexpensive paper masking tape and popsicle stick shims(free!) to stiffen the whole affair.   Four 1/2 liter Coke bottles taped with their tops together and then 2 sets with their bottoms together, shimmed in the middle were about 4' long (1 1/3 meters?).   With 24 ga. speaker wire torn in half to double the length, the turns being spaced 1/2" apart, it took about 40 feet to wire the whole length.   I lost them all when I moved this last time.
       Now, if you want, you can do something similar, and then take separate sections and use each junction between each individual tramsformer to tap off coils and vary the turns ratio that way.

Oh, you can't beat the cost factor, but I admit they're a real Kluge solution and time consuming to build as well.   Money was an issue for me then, and still is now.   These were for a special project.

--Lee
   
img  e2matrix
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #14 on: 2012-01-18, 18:21:13 »
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Initially it sounded like you wanted a Variac.  Would that not work?  Sometimes you can get deals on them for a very good price on fleabay.  I got one new at a garage sale that can handle 3kw for $5 .... but then I tend to be lucky sometimes.   Then again that second VFD Peterae posted seems like an amazingly good price if you can get by the sellers poor English. 
   
img  Chet K
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #15 on: 2012-01-18, 18:37:06 »
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Ok
A little history that will perhaps explain the "Need" better!
The Savic device is tuned to the mains [An amazingly hard thing to get right] no electronics of any kind required!

The Other device took a 180 approach............What ever frequency rings the can ....read it and send it back to make the can ring.

So it eliminates the whole Stradivarius Hand tuning deal and makes for a perfect match every time! The ability to dial up or down a nice clean sine wave and watch for results as opposed to sanding and guessing
Makes this the only viable approach.

I've been told [today]info on  building this Transformer should be forthcoming . {somebody is doing much to much themselves]!

Chet
   
img  muDped
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #16 on: 2012-01-18, 21:18:36 »

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The best way to determine the self
resonant frequency of any object is
to "pluck" it or "strike" it as one would
a guitar string or a bell.

A very sharp impulse will enable the
object to "ring" with a damped oscillation.

Timing the impulses to sustain the oscillation
is then very easy.



---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
img  Farrah Day
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #17 on: 2012-01-18, 22:35:36 »
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Quote from: ramset on 2012-01-18, 18:37:06
Ok
A little history that will perhaps explain the "Need" better!
The Savic device is tuned to the mains [An amazingly hard thing to get right] no electronics of any kind required!

The Other device took a 180 approach............What ever frequency rings the can ....read it and send it back to make the can ring.

So it eliminates the whole Stradivarius Hand tuning deal and makes for a perfect match every time! The ability to dial up or down a nice clean sine wave and watch for results as opposed to sanding and guessing
Makes this the only viable approach.

I've been told [today]info on  building this Transformer should be forthcoming . {somebody is doing much to much themselves]!

Chet

 ??? So I take it that the video is not going to happen... and that you have not taken on board a single word of what has been said about why tuning in air is meaningless if you intend to submerge the thing in water?  C.C  I officially throw in the towel... Now where's that wall for me to bang my head against!
   
img  Chet K
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #18 on: 2012-01-18, 23:55:47 »
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Movie
 Still Happening
Tuning ....That too!
A variable frequency drive transformer is supposed to be "Just what the Doctor ordered",And this whole approach sounds better given how things might go off a bit underwater?
I would imagine the frequency would still be the same to ring the can underwater ,it would be Dampened a bit !

I have decided to be patient and not pester the inventor .....

That's a no pester Chester approach.

THX
Chet
   
img  Paul-R
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #19 on: 2012-01-19, 00:08:45 »
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Quote from: ramset on 2012-01-18, 18:37:06

The Other device took a 180 approach............What ever frequency rings the can ....read it and send it back to make the can ring.

This was proposed at the 2008 UK Free Energy Conference. Particularly useful for using up bowls
which are tuned to each other but have been tuned too high for the mains. Also for an
application whcih needs to run off a battery rather than the mains.

But a big part of Davey is to use your mains "as is".
   
img  muDped
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #20 on: 2012-01-19, 02:05:50 »

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Quote from: ramset
...
A variable frequency drive transformer is supposed to be "Just what the Doctor ordered",And this whole approach sounds better given how things might go off a bit underwater?
I would imagine the frequency would still be the same to ring the can underwater ,it would be Dampened a bit !

I have decided to be patient and not pester the inventor .....

That's a no pester Chester approach.

THX
Chet

A sinusoidal electrical driver may not be
necessary for this application.

Building a bi-polar variable frequency pulsing
driver (with adjustable pulse width/duty cycle)
would be relatively easy.

Once resonance has been acquired the applied
driving waveshape is unimportant so long as the
pulse width is not excessive.  Short pulses are quite
effective.

Pulsed input (Class C) will drive a resonant circuit
much more efficiently than a sinusoidal Class A or
Class AB Linear.

An output transformer would be unnecessary.



---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #21 on: 2012-01-19, 03:51:26 »
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Quote from: Dumped on 2012-01-19, 02:05:50
A sinusoidal electrical driver may not be
necessary for this application.

Once resonance has been acquired the applied
driving waveshape is unimportant so long as the
pulse width is not excessive.  Short pulses are quite
effective.

Pulsed input (Class C) will drive a resonant circuit
much more efficiently than a sinusoidal Class A or
Class AB Linear.

An output transformer would be unnecessary.



This seems correct and a very good point.

Quote
Building a bi-polar variable frequency pulsing
driver (with adjustable pulse width/duty cycle)
would be relatively easy.

I sure would like to see how you do this, if it is relatively easy!
    Note the requirement still of high input power to get the device started...  roughly around 400-500 W input power.

Another approach would be to modify a cheap inverter (e.g., square wave output)  to allow for controllable frequency.  Any ideas on that approach?
   
img  muDped
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #22 on: 2012-01-19, 06:37:17 »

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Quote from: PhysicsProf

I sure would like to see how you do this, if it is relatively easy!
    Note the requirement still of high input power to get the device started...  roughly around 400-500 W input power.

Another approach would be to modify a cheap inverter (e.g., square wave output)  to allow for controllable frequency.  Any ideas on that approach?


Yes, many of the inexpensive inverters do
have an "H Bridge" output which produces
the alternating modified sine wave (pulsed
alternations.)  By modifying the pulse generator
which drives the H Bridge to the desired pulsing
frequency and pulse width it would be accomplished.

Or, an H Bridge (or a Half Bridge) could be built from
scratch with the necessary pulse generator chip to
drive it.

The bridge itself could be made with conventional
high voltage transistors or with IGBTs.

Some useful details...


---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
img  Farrah Day
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #23 on: 2012-01-19, 08:38:52 »
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This supposed to be a simple device based on two bike bells or a beer can, or two spoons, or whatever, powered by a mains supply? If it worked as claimed (and I don't for one minute believe it does) then the simplicity of the device was what made it attractive.

So why now has it become so technical and complicated if it works in its simple form - I mean what is all this about a transformer that varies the mains frequency.  ??? The transformer would require far more time effort and technical skill to make than the bloody boiler... I'm totally baffled by all this, can somebody with half-a-brain please explain to me what the hell is going on!  :(
« Last Edit: 2012-01-19, 11:36:33 by Farrah Day »
   
img  Paul-R
Re: Help Building a special transformer ? « Reply #24 on: 2012-01-19, 10:35:16 »
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Quote from: Farrah Day on 2012-01-19, 08:38:52
This supposed to be a simple device based on two bike bells or a beer can.

I think the problem is that there are three projects that are different and are getting
muddled up.

1. Davey's first patent does not even mention frequencies and tuning.

2. The bells. They hare tuned to ring at (usually) three octaves above
local mains frequency, either 400hz or 480hz.

3. The beer can or IKEA thermos flask. This is a radically different variant.

Also mixed in is the notion, expressed in 2008 at the UKFEC that two bells,
well tuned together, could simply be fed with the frequency that they ring
at.

Paul-R
   
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