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Author Topic: Two Oscilloscope tests  (Read 65971 times)
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img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #50 on: 2012-02-13, 23:55:36 »
Group: Guest
I now understand why many researchers on the Joule Thief Circuit failed to detect “Overunity”.  They did not examine the csv files carefully.  They did not compare the Output and Input Waveforms.

The attached xls file and the comparison waveforms tell the story.  The COP =-0.07 but the circuit is very efficient.  The many wonders of the Joule Thief can be demonstrated.

COP alone (even if the average powers were used) will not give the full and correct story.

The Divine Wine is far from simple.
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #51 on: 2012-02-15, 05:25:07 »
Group: Guest
I put another 3 LEDs on the output side.  The COP changed from -0.07 to -10.48.

See file for details.
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #52 on: 2012-02-17, 00:32:32 »
Group: Guest
Put 7 LEDs on (same as LED hat).

The COP changed to -21.

One interesting thing is that the Average Input Power changed from -0.007455 to -0.005189.

See attached files.
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #53 on: 2012-02-17, 06:58:28 »
Group: Guest
Replaced the 1/4 W rating resistors with the 1 W ones from Radioshack.

Both the Input and Output Average Power were positive.  The COP = 36.

Thus the tuning is still very much an art at this point.  Same value of resistors at different rating gave very different results.

Divine Wine is far from simple.
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #54 on: 2012-02-17, 16:11:23 »
Group: Guest
The research direction to take:

1.   Do a “commercial resonance condition” experiment so that a capable manufacturer can take the results and produce a money making product.  Advantage: speed up the acceptance of Lead-out or Bring-in Energy.  Disadvantage: the manufacturers of the LED HAT and the CAR BATTERY RECHARGER will be upset.  They put in much effort to get such conditions.

2.   Focus on the Negative Input or Output Power waveforms.  That may already be evidence of OverUnity or Bringing or Leading-out environmental energy.  Identify possible conditions for their occurrences.  Advantage: New area of research that few had covered.  Disadvantage: No immediate commercial value.  Cannot rouse non-academic interest.

3.   Do the calorimeter tests.  Prof. Steven Jones and team are already doing that.  It will be another confirmation.  Advantage: Have an additional confirmation in addition to Oscilloscope Power Waveforms.  Disadvantage: Diverting energy in a new direction.

4.   Do an educational video on Lead-out or Bring-in energy covering all the three Divine Revelations.  Advantage: Material is already available.  Disadvantage: May not arouse the intended interest.

5.   Work with the political organizations.  Some from the Obama Re-election Camp showed interest.  Advantage: May get support and interest.  Disadvantage: They may have different agenda.

6.   Do a comparison study with many existing claimed OU devices.  Advantage: May have one theory pointing all in one direction.  Disadvantage: May cause much unwanted, heated discussions.

7.   Train many others.  Advantage: Can be done with existing resources and components from Hong Kong.  Disadvantage: Some trainees want commercial results.

8.   Work with many International Organizations who showed Interest.  Apply for the many Prizes to generate interest.  Advantage: Get many groups to examine FLEET closely.  Disadvantage: May need to modify direction to meet the different requirements.

9.   Continue to sow seeds as in the Bible.  Do any or all of above.  Some seeds may fall on rock.  Some may fall on fertile soil.  Just tell the World about the Divine Wine.  Encourage them to be Servers or Bottlers of the Wine.

May the Lord Guide us All.
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #55 on: 2012-02-18, 21:42:01 »
Group: Guest
I added a capacitor across the battery and checked whether the power waveforms changed significantly.  This is to check whether the replacing of the battery with capacitors changed the circuit characteristics.  The answer is - when you replace the battery with a capacitor, you have a different circuit. 

So treat the two as two different circuits.  There is no need to lump them together.

See the attached - especially the comparison with the Feb 16a diagrams and csv data.
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #56 on: 2012-02-19, 01:42:00 »
Group: Guest
Conversation at Lunch

A number of us were having lunch and talked about various topics.  Some might have relevance here:

A: “Would your type of research be better in a Top-secret Government Organization?”

B: “The good thing about the US free system is that there is much competition.  The weaklings automatically die out.  If there were strong Government Support, the weaklings would remain.”

C: “But who determines the weaklings?  In any new area of research, there will be unknowns and uncertainties.  Will the one who makes most noise get more resources?”

A: “No.  Those who can demonstrate results usually can get more resources.  In USA, there are many sources of private funding.  There are many claimed OU devices on the Internet.  I am sure that the technically sound and proven ones will get support somehow.  The inventors with such inventions in front of them will be much more dedicated.”

B: “We just have to wait.  Now, the playground is global.  The OU inventions do not need to come from any particular country.  Just believe in the free system.  When the weaklings fall apart, the strong ones will remain.  It applies to businesses and it also applies to inventors.”

Who has the greatest staying power?  Those with Faith???
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #57 on: 2012-02-19, 17:24:45 »
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Playing with the Battery Charger Circuit on Feb 18, 2012.

The first attempt used rechargeable AA batteries.  The result was not successful.

See the attached files.

Shall use the rechargeable batteries from the solar keyrings.

Not achieving desired results helps to eliminate one dead end.
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #58 on: 2012-02-20, 12:55:10 »
Group: Guest
Used a real diode to get DC voltage to recharge battery.

Result not successful.

Voltage of charging and to be charged batteries dropped.

See attached.
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #59 on: 2012-02-20, 17:12:25 »
Group: Guest
蒋先生:一切都好吧!何时回香港我一定会去深圳看您!还得加大宣传磁动机力度!(磁动力电动小跑车)王沈河致


Translation:


Dear Mr. Tseung,


Wishing you the best.  When you come back to Hong Kong, I shall see you in Shenzhen.  Please promote my self-powered magnetic engine (It is being used on electric sports cars).


From Wang Shen He.




I shall post pictures and detail reports when I get to drive the sports car.  The limited information I have is that the sports car has the Wang Engine to recharge batteries.  There is no need to use mains electricity.   The prototype is available for demonstration now.   Please emailMr. Wang directly at:
wshsdfm200808@126.com.


The Divine Wine comes with different favors and from different sources.
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #60 on: 2012-02-21, 06:44:43 »
Group: Guest
Shall repeat the battery charger circuit with ferrite core.

The first test was to put in one diode and no battery to be recharged yet.

The result is shown in attached files.
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #61 on: 2012-02-27, 17:38:45 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: ltseung888 on 2012-02-17, 06:58:28
Replaced the 1/4 W rating resistors with the 1 W ones from Radioshack.

Both the Input and Output Average Power were positive.  The COP = 36.

Thus the tuning is still very much an art at this point.  Same value of resistors at different rating gave very different results.

Divine Wine is far from simple.
Simple question?
If a large enough prototype was built to, say, power a refrigerator, and a toroid was wired to come before the power input receptacle, would the large COP allow a reduction in power consumed by the refrigerator?

I can try to draw a schematic and render it into .PDF to illustrate my idea later.   The library changed their equipment type and I need to learn how to use it all over again.   May take some time.

--Lee
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #62 on: 2012-02-27, 20:23:52 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on 2012-02-27, 17:38:45
Simple question?
If a large enough prototype was built to, say, power a refrigerator, and a toroid was wired to come before the power input receptacle, would the large COP allow a reduction in power consumed by the refrigerator?

I can try to draw a schematic and render it into .PDF to illustrate my idea later.   The library changed their equipment type and I need to learn how to use it all over again.   May take some time.

--Lee


The answer is far from simple.  With FLEET, the main function of the Input Battery is to get to the “Commercial resonance condition”.  Once that condition has been achieved, lead-out or bring-in energy will come from the environment to power the load.

I shall try to show some possible ways of achieving “commercial resonance condition”.  The simplest example is likely to be the LED hat.  The existing LED hat uses two batteries and last for about 2 hours continuous running.  The “commercial resonance conditioned” LED hat uses only one battery and lasts for at least two days.  (The real product is likely to be even better.)  Many researchers in the Joule Thief thread achieved that already.

The Divine Wine can be served in different ways.
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #63 on: 2012-02-27, 20:52:44 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: ltseung888 on 2012-02-27, 20:23:52
The answer is far from simple.  With FLEET, the main function of the Input Battery is to get to the “Commercial resonance condition”.  Once that condition has been achieved, lead-out or bring-in energy will come from the environment to power the load.
...
I had in mind a variation of this, then:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=984.0

If you say the battery needs to be part of the circuit for efficient functioning, then replacing the Gabriel device in my thread with your more powerful toroid version may be all that's needed.

--Lee
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #64 on: 2012-02-27, 23:34:43 »
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I shall do the "commercial resonance condition" hunting for the LED Hat in the coming days.

See the first comparison.  A single 2023 battery cannot light the 5 LEDs.  The existing Hat used TWO.  

I used an air toroid FLEET to light 5 LEDs.  Some experiments will include:

1. Use a single 2032 to light the 5 LEDs with the air toroid.
2. Do the time comparison - how long the 5 LEDs can be ON with AA batteries and 2032 batteries.
3. Replace air toroid with ferrite core.
4. Do different diameter toroids.
5. Get a commercial resonance condition that will interest a manufacturer.

I already know that COP>-300 is possible from my own experiments.  The negative sign is significant because the Average Input Power can be negative.  (Other teams could do much better.)
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #65 on: 2012-02-28, 16:09:47 »
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Quote from: ltseung888 on 2012-02-27, 23:34:43
I shall do the "commercial resonance condition" hunting for the LED Hat in the coming days.

See the first comparison.  A single 2023 battery cannot light the 5 LEDs.  The existing Hat used TWO.  

I used an air toroid FLEET to light 5 LEDs.  Some experiments will include:

1. Use a single 2032 to light the 5 LEDs with the air toroid.
2. Do the time comparison - how long the 5 LEDs can be ON with AA batteries and 2032 batteries.
3. Replace air toroid with ferrite core.
4. Do different diameter toroids.
5. Get a commercial resonance condition that will interest a manufacturer.

I already know that COP>-300 is possible from my own experiments.  The negative sign is significant because the Average Input Power can be negative.  (Other teams could do much better.)



Here are the results for the first test – lighting 5 LEDs with one AA battery.
The COP from average power ratios is 9.51.
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #66 on: 2012-02-28, 16:41:50 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: ltseung888 on 2012-02-27, 23:34:43
...
I used an air toroid FLEET to light 5 LEDs.  Some experiments will include:
1. Use a single 2032 to light the 5 LEDs with the air toroid.
2. Do the time comparison - how long the 5 LEDs can be ON with AA batteries and 2032 batteries.
3. Replace air toroid with ferrite core.
4. Do different diameter toroids.
5. Get a commercial resonance condition that will interest a manufacturer.
I like the variation in #'s 1-4.   I would do something similar in my experiments.   However, I still have a problem understanding something:  Why is a battery with an (admittedly) inherent positive and negative electrical charge necessary to achieve this, as I quote you:
With FLEET, the main function of the Input Battery is to get to the “Commercial resonance condition”.
Why is a battery necessary?
Quote
I already know that COP>-300 is possible from my own experiments.  The negative sign is significant because the Average Input Power can be negative.  (Other teams could do much better.)
Is it possible to get a COP =>1,000 to 5,000?   Even more?   That would amount to practically limitless free power.

--Lee
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #67 on: 2012-02-28, 23:03:14 »
Group: Guest
Here is the result of the AA battery with 5 LEDs after 6 hours continously running.

The LED lights appear to be as bright as at the beginning.

The COP changed from 9.51 to -7.88.

See the attached files.
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #68 on: 2012-02-28, 23:13:48 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on 2012-02-28, 16:41:50
I like the variation in #'s 1-4.   I would do something similar in my experiments.   However, I still have a problem understanding something:  Why is a battery with an (admittedly) inherent positive and negative electrical charge necessary to achieve this, as I quote you:
With FLEET, the main function of the Input Battery is to get to the “Commercial resonance condition”.
Why is a battery necessary?Is it possible to get a COP =>1,000 to 5,000?   Even more?   That would amount to practically limitless free power.

--Lee


It is indeed possible to get COP > 5,000.  That Company keeps the information confidential as it is "commercial resonance condition".  They are building products based on such prototype.  You will know about it when the product is on the Market.

It is possible to replace the battery with a charged capacitor as in Prof. Steven Jones thread.  He wants to use that to measure power Input.  However, I have not done that myself.  I am happy with batteries.  One coming project is the recharging of a bank of 12V car batteries.  One team already claimed success and has a demonstration car for me to drive when I go back to Hong Kong.
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #69 on: 2012-02-29, 19:08:14 »
Group: Guest
The 5 LED FLEET is still ON after > 24 hours with ONE AA battery.

As a comparison, the existing LED hat uses 2 2023 batteries and the LEDs will go out after less than 2 hours.

Can we consider this result as an exploitable "Commercial Resonance Condition"?

Or should we continue the research and hunt for a better "Commercial Resonance Condition"?

As far as the Joule Thief Circuit is concerned, I already know from the long Joule Thief thread at Overunity.com that much better "commercial Resonance Conditions" exist.  One approach is to read the thread and experiment with one of the better Commecial Resonance Conditions.  The other approach is to continue the trial and error experiment.

Edited on March 1:  The AA Battery voltage went from 1.416V to 1.164V but could still light the LEDs after 24 hours.  This means ONE AA battery with FLEET technology can light 5 LEDs for > 24 hours compared with the original LED hat that used two 2023 batteries to light 5 LEDs for < 2 hours.  Such a result is already worth further experimenting.  The power waveform comparisons already demonstrated COP>1.

See the attached for details.
« Last Edit: 2012-03-01, 14:22:49 by ltseung888 »
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #70 on: 2012-03-01, 23:43:44 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on 2012-02-27, 17:38:45
...I can try to draw a schematic and render it into .PDF to illustrate my idea later.   The library changed their equipment type and I need to learn how to use it all over again.   May take some time.
Here's what I was talking about (attachment).   Will power consumption be reduced, on average, by the specific schematic's components, as drawn?   Is there an opinion?

--Lee
   
img  acmefixer
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #71 on: 2012-03-02, 22:31:25 »
Group: Guest
I understand the horizontal scale, samples, but what is the vertical scale?  Is in milliwatts?  Megawatts?

I've measured the conventional Joule Thief efficiency somewhere around 40 to 70 percent.  That's using the 1 ohm current sense resistor and assuming 3.3 volts across the LED.  My Supercharged Joule Thief has greater efficiency, typically 70 percent or more.  But I'm not sure about the measurements I've made.  I'd appreciate it if someone could replicate my circuit.  It's here http://rustybolt.info/wordpress/?p=221.

Quote from: ltseung888 on 2012-02-13, 23:55:36
I now understand why many researchers on the Joule Thief Circuit failed to detect “Overunity”.  They did not examine the csv files carefully.  They did not compare the Output and Input Waveforms.

The attached xls file and the comparison waveforms tell the story.  The COP =-0.07 but the circuit is very efficient.  The many wonders of the Joule Thief can be demonstrated.

COP alone (even if the average powers were used) will not give the full and correct story.

The Divine Wine is far from simple.
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #72 on: 2012-03-04, 17:31:00 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: acmefixer on 2012-03-02, 22:31:25
I understand the horizontal scale, samples, but what is the vertical scale?  Is in milliwatts?  Megawatts?

I've measured the conventional Joule Thief efficiency somewhere around 40 to 70 percent.  That's using the 1 ohm current sense resistor and assuming 3.3 volts across the LED.  My Supercharged Joule Thief has greater efficiency, typically 70 percent or more.  But I'm not sure about the measurements I've made.  I'd appreciate it if someone could replicate my circuit.  It's here http://rustybolt.info/wordpress/?p=221.


In the Power Waveform comparisons, the horizontal scale is in E-6 seconds and for comparison purposes, we can just treat them as sample points.  The vertical scale is the product of Ch1*Ch2.  Ch1 is in volts.  Ch2 is also in volts across a 1 ohm resistor.  Thus we can treate Ch2 as representing current in amps.  Thus the vertical scale is in watts.

*** Your assuming 3.3 volts across the LED is incorrect.  If you look at the output results on the oscilloscope for voltage, the peak-to-peak voltage can reach 60 volts.  The RMS voltage can exceed 10 Volts.  The waveform is pulsed.  If you look back at the Input oscilloscope waveforms, you will find that the waveform is also pulsed.  Even if you place your probes across the battery, you do not get the expected 1.4V or so from the AA battery.  Our results showed that the peak-to-peak voltage is in the order of 2-3V.

Please use an oscilloscope to do the measurement.  Display the waveforms and analyze your csv files.  You can calculate the COP from the average Output/Input Power.  You may find that you have a negative COP with a numerical value >> 1.

You should use EXCEL to examine the many xls files in this thread.
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #73 on: 2012-03-04, 17:36:18 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on 2012-03-01, 23:43:44
Here's what I was talking about (attachment).   Will power consumption be reduced, on average, by the specific schematic's components, as drawn?   Is there an opinion?

--Lee


Your simple circuit is far from simple.  I am not sure that it can lead-out or bring-in electron motion energy as in the FLEET devices.  My advice is to do the experiment and use oscilloscopes to display the waveforms and do the csv file analysis.

I am enclosing an early version of the on-line book describing the history of my work.  It will be updated in the next few weeks.
   
img  ltseung888
Re: Two Oscilloscope tests « Reply #74 on: 2012-03-05, 01:32:08 »
Group: Guest
We now start on applying the FLEET technology to the LED Fan Toy.

The existing toy uses three AAA batteries and can last 3 hours.

The goal is to use one AAA battery with FLEET and last for > 3 hours.

This is the second part to hunt for "commercial resonance condition".

The research will start today - March 4, 2012 at 5:30 pm.
   
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