PopularFX
Home Help Search Login Register
Welcome,Guest. Please login or register.
OverUnity Research > Benches > wattsup (Moderator: wattsup) > Romero and Wire X Dilemma
2024-11-27, 03:44:54
News: If you have a suggestion or need for a new board title, please PM the Admins.
Please remember to keep topics and posts of the FE or casual nature. :)

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5
Author Topic: Romero and Wire X Dilemma  (Read 103262 times)
Topic Options img
img  wattsup
Romero and Wire X Dilemma « on: 2011-06-15, 07:18:18 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 520
I will put this on my bench to not clutter up any other thread.

After I noticed the attraction/repulsion, I started to look at the video much closer and notice something that I do not like.

I found the red positive from the battery yes going to the two drive coil circuit boards, but i also found one going to the output coil positive rail.

Also one wire from the battery negative goes again to the negative of the output coil rail.

This is not good.

wattsup


---------------------------
http://etherimpress.com
   
img  Peterae
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #1 on: 2011-06-15, 07:45:25 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3961


Buy me some coffee
10:40 in this video he disconnects the battery and picks it up and moves it
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/o3YqCp84IOE&hl=en_US[/youtube]
   
img  wattsup
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #2 on: 2011-06-15, 13:48:43 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 520
@Peterae

OK I have the second video as you have indicated and it is converted to AVI format so I can do some big close ups and while moving the frames. I will check this video from top too bottom since the first video it is now obvious to me that he did in fact have his battery always connected to the positive and negative of the output rail. Hmmmmmmm. Why would he have done his first video like that. Romero was right when he said he faked something. He just did not say where. Now at least I know.

In the second video he does take off the battery, which is a major coup indeed. I do feel better with this second video.

As expected, you may have to turn one of your drive coils around.

Last thing. If you are in a position to pulse any pair of drive coils, eventually can you try and add a transformer primary or secondary in series with the drive coils but not on the pulsed side. See if this increases your rpm. The transformer coil should have the same mH range as the two drive coils in series.

wattsup

PS: Always thinking ahead, I had been toying around with a idea for a future Romero Rotor. I am thinking that the rotor material itself is always being turned in between drive and generator coils that are generating all sorts of fields. Maybe try to catch them on the rotor material and transfer to generator coils that are right on the rotor itself. sort of like how those AC fan motors work with the coil on one end and the two laminations coming together around the fan rotor.

Time to get to work. Big day. I'll look at this more tonight.


---------------------------
http://etherimpress.com
   
img  Peterae
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #3 on: 2011-06-15, 14:08:42 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3961


Buy me some coffee
Hi wattsup

Which video is it that he keeps the battery connected or is it hidden wires that are connected, can you post the link to the video you are watching.

Cheers
Peter
   
img  wattsup
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #4 on: 2011-06-15, 22:38:32 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 520
Quote from: Peterae on 2011-06-15, 14:08:42
Hi wattsup
Which video is it that he keeps the battery connected or is it hidden wires that are connected, can you post the link to the video you are watching.
Cheers
Peter

@Peterae
This is the video I was referring to;
This may be deemed as a deliberate trick showing no draw with load.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KVU3ZM14rw

I will check this other video but on the surface of things, looks good. but usually you have to see ti many time for something to click.

Don't get me wrong. This does not detract from what you are doing which I think is just top notch and I fully trust the obvious methodology you will have to maintain in order to keep track of your tests. It's just that once I discovered the wire X, I am sort of obliged to be in red alert mode and look closer to this video as well.

wattsup


---------------------------
http://etherimpress.com
   
img  poynt99
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #5 on: 2011-06-16, 00:29:33 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3217
It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: wattsup on 2011-06-15, 22:38:32
@Peterae
This is the video I was referring to;
This may be deemed as a deliberate trick showing no draw with load.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KVU3ZM14rw

I will check this other video but on the surface of things, looks good. but usually you have to see ti many time for something to click.

Don't get me wrong. This does not detract from what you are doing which I think is just top notch and I fully trust the obvious methodology you will have to maintain in order to keep track of your tests. It's just that once I discovered the wire X, I am sort of obliged to be in red alert mode and look closer to this video as well.

wattsup

wattsup,

The video you linked to here is Romero's FIRST video, and this was BEFORE he looped it in self-powering mode with the DC-DC converter. LOL

So, of course he does not disconnect the battery. ;)

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  Peterae
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #6 on: 2011-06-16, 06:27:02 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3961


Buy me some coffee
Thats why i was asking which video   :)
« Last Edit: 2011-06-16, 11:17:12 by Peterae »
   
img  wattsup
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #7 on: 2011-06-19, 14:24:16 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 520
Well after a few days of checking the video 2, I found the Wire X again.

In video 2, he made a concerted effort to avoid the backside of the device as well as never going under the table, probably thinking that in video 1, he showed under the table so there was no need to show it in video 2. But in the grabs below, you see the wire x is coming off the dc output rail then goes back and down under the device. It would be very easy to hide some batteries under the table since he never showed under the table. Then to do the battery remval and all is done in the same way as in video 1 except for now, he is using his dc to dc converter which now, in essence means nothing.

Shit. I am so tired of guys making videos and fucking with our heads.

Now with @GK's sound analysis, you can see there is no real change in sound from when the rotor turns freely or when it was under load with the bulb. No difference at all means only one thing. Bad news.

That explains everything now. The Romero wheel was a fake in all instances. He made up a story of MIB style so he would not talk about the wheel is great specifics. he then comes back a few weeks later thinking the heat has dissipated and people have accepted his stance. But his interjections in discussion is not any more helpful then anyone else. THAT IS BECAUSE HE IS NOT ANY MORE ADVANCE ABOUT THE WHEEL THEN ANYONE ELSE WITH A WHEEL RIGHT NOW.

Then I analyzed both drive coil circuit boards.There is no AOAO in the drive circuits. He is using them both identical so there is no way this is possible. In my analysis, drive it under AOAO will be the only way to have the best chance of running the wheel against drag. Otherwise there is no way. To do the AOAO with D22 always on, and the sensor turns it off, this will required other components. I think guys should figure it out with a circuit and try it at D22 otherwise I think this is not good at all.

The Wire X says it all. Video 2 was faked again.

wattsup



---------------------------
http://etherimpress.com
   
img  Peterae
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #8 on: 2011-06-19, 15:47:21 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3961


Buy me some coffee
OK wattsup welldone thankyou for finding this wire, the penny only just dropped, with what you were saying in the first video, offcourse i though yes the battery should be connected just like Poynt pointed out, but the bombshell i realized you mean the output side is still connected to the battery, that is not good, because as we know the output bridges were meant to be only powered by the gen coils not the battery. >:(

So indeed wattsup has proven it to be a fake and has shown how it was powered in both videos.

EDIT now i am going to look over the videos and follow wire X just to put my mind at rest.
   
img  EMdevices
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #9 on: 2011-06-19, 16:05:33 »
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 805
If the output was connected to the input,  through this "wire-X",  than the input should have drawn 3 AMPS, when the load was connected,  but it actually DECREASED a bit.



@wattsup

This video is real and we are watching OU and a self run condition.   Your are analyzing the "trees" to closely and loosing sight of the "forest".

EM
   
img  BEP
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #10 on: 2011-06-19, 16:13:52 »
Group: Guest
Ok. Now that we have all the answers:

1. Where is the answer of where the battery was in the video where it isn't sitting on the table?
2. Why is there no 'wire-x' on that same video?
3. What makes us think a 'no-lenz' generator would have a speed change when load is applied or removed?
4. Why do we think the timing works like a 2-cylinder ICE?
5. What the hell is 'AOAO'?

 :D

You folks do what you feel you must.
   
img  Peterae
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #11 on: 2011-06-19, 16:18:34 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3961


Buy me some coffee
that video 2 he does pan round the back and i cannot see your wire x
Here's a frame i grabbed looking right where wire x should be i think.
   
img  Peterae
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #12 on: 2011-06-19, 16:24:02 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3961


Buy me some coffee
Good point EM

Yeah now i have a pan from the back and cannot see wire X let's see what wattsup says?

I need to spend some time looking closer myself really to prove this once and for all either way, i am still edging on this not being faked right now  O0

WW yes i agree a speed change would not be necessary, infact if it does defy lenz then that's the whole point that it does extract energy from the motion of the rotor.

I also cannot see anyway AOAO could be implemented without physically connecting drive A to Drive B with extra wires and i do know how Halls work you could not use the halls alone to get your AOAO function.
   
img  BEP
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #13 on: 2011-06-19, 17:00:10 »
Group: Guest
My main point is - faked or not the rotor magnets DO NOT INDUCE THE GENERATOR OUTPUT VOLTAGE. This is done by the stator magnet fields. These fields are static unless separated and allowed to reconnect.

The stator magnet fields are at right angles to the rotor rotation. Lenz does apply there but the counter force will not impede the rotor rotation and will surely accelerate the rotor by squeezing the rotor magnet from between the stator magnets.

The rotor magnets cannot induce a current into the generator coils because the NET magnetic force is ZERO between the opposing magnets. The field generated by the two bucking fields is radial. A radial changing flux ALSO will not induce a current into a solenoid wound coil.

There will be some exceptions because the design is far from optimized and the amount of adjustments needed must be staggering.

The peaks on either side of his open circuit waveform are the combined stator field being separated and then being reconnected. The flat area between them is the 'No-Lenz', Net Zero, radial field having separated the stator field between top and bottom stator magnets.

I'm still not planning on building this device but I'm feeling I must build something to demonstrate these effects. We keep sliding into the 'Oh! it's just another variant of the common motor'. It isn't.

If RPM changed during load or unload, up or down for either, it is a common motor and probably a fake or very badly adjusted.


EDIT>>

One more thing.... The amount of energy lost tor force the rotor magnet between the stator magnets is regained when it exits the other side   ;)
   
img  Hoppy
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #14 on: 2011-06-19, 17:11:22 »
Group: Guest

Peterae,

It looks to be at around 5 o'clock on your capture.

Hoppy
   
img  giantkiller
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #15 on: 2011-06-19, 17:13:11 »

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1593
Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Glad the sound capture aided in some way.

This whole rouk device has what i believe a major shortcoming and that is a complexity of fields that are being used incorrectly. This is a mash of the Deyo coil and Muller. There is a large encompassing field with bemfs going inside also like a magnacoaster. But the capture cant benefit from the full effect. That is why i mentioned using the cutting wheel like smith and muller did. That creates a very fast on and off time. Spank the coil dont slide it around. Or in this case the magnet field slides by. Remember the flux disconnect and reconnect are very fast. With the coils in a constant field they dont get slapped quick enough to polarize the vacuum. Besides, the rpm by itself will never be fast enough to cause any real effect. Adding faster switching components is like putting the cart before the horse.
It's not in the mechanics, it's in the fields...


---------------------------
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/
   
img  chrisC
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #16 on: 2011-06-19, 19:27:52 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: wattsup on 2011-06-19, 14:24:16
Well after a few days of checking the video 2, I found the Wire X again.

...
The Wire X says it all. Video 2 was faked again.

wattsup


Honestly, if you have been following the threads at the other forum, others have fine combed through the video in much more details than you have in the early days of Romero's posts  and found no tricks nor fake. And you if did follow the thread more closely and understood electronics, you would have known it is not a placement of magnets (plus AOAO nonsense)  that makes Romero's design different - it's about phase shift, it's about tuning, it's about coil bucking and resonance.  Check out Bolt, Konehead and Ben's latest post. Seriously, you should only write what you know.

cheers
chrisC
   
img  Peterae
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #17 on: 2011-06-19, 20:01:44 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3961


Buy me some coffee
Hoppy
at five o'clock there's only 2 wire black and red, these both go to the drive coil, the black wire goes to the transistor, the red wire goes up to the other drive coil.

at six o'clock theres 2 red these both go to a gen coil, so still cannot see it
   
img  wattsup
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #18 on: 2011-06-19, 22:04:02 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 520
The problem is when you have no real reason to look, you look away.

The first video gave the red alert. Now look at this image grab. It now says it all and this I even did not notice till I returned from our annual Fathers Day Picnic. Sorry I did not see this one before. I knew yesterday that the cap in the center of the table was a little bit lifted when you see it from one of the front views, but today I found the final nail in the coffin. I am so sorry to bring this to you guys at such a late stage in this wheel-o-rama. I only wish I would have done a full scan on images since day one.

In the image you see the Wire X going from the back, down, then entering the center hole, along with the black wire. I can make some close-ups for those who refuse to see it as it is.

I had prepared a post about Romero a good week and a half ago but never posted it because I did not have the proof. It just basically ran through the events trying to see the logic of someone posting two videos, then saying the MIB is after him or something like that, so he cannot show the device any further. Then he comes back as if all is fine and dandy. Guys on the forums prefer by that stage to put their head in the sand instead of confronting such illogical behavior that in most realities would have spelled fake. But we kept on going and I am just as guilty as anyone else.

@Peterae

Can you please get your wheel to turn as it does. Add a 12vdc battery to the output rail. Then load it with your bulbs and see how the wheel changes or not. In any damn build, there will always be a difference between a no load and load condition since both conditions are not identical, this change must be reflected in one way or another. If ti does not, this should be a red alert.

Also, if you can find a N/C reed switch and put in place of the hall sensor for drive D22. Then put it in series with the drive coil pair and connect it to your dc power supply. Then try and turn the wheel.

Anyways, I am so damn sorry. I was hoping like everyone that this device would help push this forward, but it seems it will not with what Romero put on the table. But it does not mean we cannot be smarter then this and work it out in a better way.

wattsup


---------------------------
http://etherimpress.com
   
img  Peterae
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #19 on: 2011-06-19, 22:22:41 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3961


Buy me some coffee
Certainly looks like it goes down the cap
   
img  giantkiller
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #20 on: 2011-06-19, 22:39:46 »

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1593
Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Lets see:
Lots of mystery and no schematic.

The magnacoaster neo magnets are too big also. The coil isnt big enough to alter the field usefully.


---------------------------
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/
   
img  wattsup
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #21 on: 2011-06-19, 23:08:06 »
Group: Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 520
@All

Just in case someone says they cannot see clear enough in the last image, here is a close-up that clearly says it all.

wattsup


---------------------------
http://etherimpress.com
   
img  EMdevices
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #22 on: 2011-06-19, 23:29:18 »
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 805
wattsup,  you've done good work in the past,  please don't jump to conclusions.   If you don't know where a wire goes just label it. 

Why don't you do a full schematic of the motor if you're so bent on analyzing the wiring?

Here, let me help you out with what you don't see!  I connected the wire you think goes down in the hole.

EM
   
img  chrisC
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #23 on: 2011-06-19, 23:45:55 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011-06-19, 23:29:18
wattsup,  you've done good work in the past,  please don't jump to conclusions.   If you don't know where a wire goes just label it. 

Why don't you do a full schematic of the motor if you're so bent on analyzing the wiring?

Here, let me help you out with what you don't see!  I connected the wire you think goes down in the hole.

EM

EM: Thanks for the foresight in spotting the obvious curve in the wiring leading to the joint. Usually the reason for a person so bent  on 'discovering' a fake is when they don't understand the electrical merits of some important discovery and become too quick to jump to conclusion  to tell everyone how this or that works or how it is faked, as if others would be so impressed! It usually ends up with pie in their face, as is in this case. Some people will never learn.

cheers
chrisC
   
img  poynt99
Re: Romero and Wire X Dilemma « Reply #24 on: 2011-06-20, 00:20:26 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3217
It's not as complicated as it may seem...
If I was going to fake it by running wires down the centre hole, I would have made sure the device fully covered the hole. 2 more inches would have done it.

 :-\

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5
« previous next »


 

Home Help Search Login Register
Theme © PopularFX | Based on PFX Ideas! | Scripts from iScript4u 2024-11-27, 03:44:54