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Author Topic: Scooping Ash's Panacea "Hidro" report  (Read 58003 times)
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@All
Let's go a little further and try to understand what Mr.Snow is trying to say in this statement in regards to thermodynamics -----
Quote
C.P. Snow, the British scientist and author has offered up an easy and funny way to remember the Three Laws. He says they can be translated as: (1) you cannot win (you can’t get something for nothing because matter and energy are conserved. (2) You cannot break even (you cannot return to the same energy state because entropy always increases (3) you cannot get out of the game (because absolute zero is not attainable).


Supposedly we cannot win, nor break even nor get out of the game but what is the game? Well in thermodynamcs he is referring to an isolated system or a closed insulated box. He is stating if we have a perfectly closed box then we cannot gain energy which is not there, we cannot break even because our box will always lose energy to the environment and we cannot change the state of what is in the box because that takes energy. Mr.Snow is stating if we do not allow the conditions in the box to change then the energy in the box cannot change, wow, maybe he should be nominated for a Nobel because his keen sense of insight and intellect are simply mind boggling. He is saying if we do not open the box (an isolated system) then the conditions thus energy cannot change however he is obviously not the sharpest crayon in the box because he is simply stating what should be obvious and taken it completely out of context-- he is a moron.

Now let's say I have Mr.Snows magical "isolated" box is in front of me and it is 12:00 noon and 30 degrees celcius then I open his magical box, the internal temperature is now 30 degrees and I close the box. Next I wait unltil 12:00 midnight when the temperature is 10 degrees celcius and I open his magical box and allow the difference in temperature (20 degrees) to perform work through some mechanism then close the box again. Now I could do this every day and night for a very long time and in every case I will gain energy, I will more than just break even and I have no need to cool anything to near absolute zero which is absurd. So how in the hell can I do what Mr.Snow says is impossible? well I managed to do the impossible because I simply opened his damn box and allowed what was inside to interact with the environment which was changing. You see Mr.Snow and his nonsensical statements can only apply to a completely isolated system(a magical closed box) which is designed so that it cannot interact with it's external environment therefore it is obvious that it cannot gain energy. However it should be just as obvious that if we open the box when the environment is changing then energy can and does enter the system. So here it is easy to see why this nonsensical arguement that FE devices are impossible because of the three laws of thermodynamics is completely absurd. His arguement relies solely on the fact that the inside of the closed box cannot interact with the environment therefore it cannot possible gain energy, he does not allow any interaction with the environment to prove his point that there can be none-- again he is a moron who has simply stated the obvious and nothing more.
All we have to do is open this magical isolated box at the correct time in a changing environment and we can show an energy gain and this does not violate the conservation of energy it substantiates it because energy is conserved.
Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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Well you managed to violate the first law of thermodynamics when you stated no energy is required to lift a droplet of water because matter and energy are conserved. You also violated the second law of thermodynamics because we cannot even break even, however our nano-wall lifted water to a height of X which can then fall performing work as it returns to it's initial energy state at rest at the bottom of the wall.

You have me at a disadvantage with the nano material, as I cannot reference how it might work.  A reference would be appreciated.  I am concerned that whatever is causing water droplets to rise will also keep them from falling.  So you would not be able to get free energy out of the cycle.  But again, I would have to read about this before speaking intelligently.

As far as the analogous capillary action, the phenomenon that causes water to rise in a narrow space also holds it in place, so while it costs no energy to raise the water, it does cost energy to extract it from the narrow space, and nature is in balance.  Perpetual motion machines based on capillary action have been attempted, but with no luck.

I would add that I think Ex is right, and if you want to calculate it, there is the potential energy of water that increases as it rises, and this is proportional to the chemical or electrostatic energy between the water molecules and the capillary.  As one grows, the other decreases, and all is as it should be.
   
Group: Guest
Not hard, but please provide equations for energy required to carbonate the soda beforehand.

Please read reply 126.  We use empty 2 litre soda bottles.  The carbonated water went into your stomach already.
   
Group: Guest
Please read reply 126.  We use empty 2 litre soda bottles.  The carbonated water went into your stomach already.

OK, that makes it easier, but I am still not sure what your experiment proves.
   
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The United Nations Person responsible for introducing High Technology to the Free Trade Zone, Mr. Yang, met the Hong Kong “Bring-in” energy researchers yesterday. The result was very encouraging.

The Hidro will be seriously investigated. If the result is positive, vast resources will be poured in.

I am glad that my “rocket science” explanation helped. Raising money to purchase a Hidro Unit from a non-profit organization may be difficult. Now, there may be dozens of orders from the Free Trade Zone Countries. There may be many more interested in licensing the technology. China will have a good outlet for its vast foreign currency reserve.

James Kwok and team will be happy with the financial returns. The World will see clean, energy-from-air devices. The Multiple LCR resonance technology will be closely followed. It will be a win-win for the hardworking researchers and the General Public.

God will guide the progress. There is nothing to worry. Amen.
   
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Quote from: ltseung888 on Today at 02:55:56
Please read reply 126.  We use empty 2 litre soda bottles.  The carbonated water went into your stomach already.


OK, that makes it easier, but I am still not sure what your experiment proves.

The Hidro is not powered by buoyancy.  It is powered by "soda bottle rockets" 15 meters under water!

Sorry that the formulae proposed by MH and team could not apply.  They are not rocket scientists and can be excused for lack of knowledge in that area.
   
Group: Guest
The Hidro is not powered by buoyancy.  It is powered by "soda bottle rockets" 15 meters under water!

Sorry that the formulae proposed by MH and team could not apply.  They are not rocket scientists and can be excused for lack of knowledge in that area.


So the air is pressurized inside the containers?  Is that what creates the rocket effect? 

Also, there is no free energy from rocketry.
   
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So the air is pressurized inside the containers?  Is that what creates the rocket effect? 

Also, there is no free energy from rocketry.

Looks like you are not a rocket scientists also.  Please study the paper by Dr. Kagan et al.  If that is too difficult, do a google search on water rocket theory.

There is no free energy.  However, there is air compressed into the rocket and air leaving the rocket.  There is temperature drop - shown as condensation on the inside and outside of the soda bottle. The soda bottle rocket is an OPEN system.  Please study energy from still air

   
Group: Guest
Looks like you are not a rocket scientists also.  Please study the paper by Dr. Kagan et al.  If that is too difficult, do a google search on water rocket theory.

There is no free energy.  However, there is air compressed into the rocket and air leaving the rocket.  There is temperature drop - shown as condensation on the inside and outside of the soda bottle. The soda bottle rocket is an OPEN system.  Please study energy from still air


I am not going to study energy from still air, since that is something that you just made up.

When the first production Hidro is sold and is producing energy, I will study how it works, not until then.
   
Group: Guest
...
As far as the analogous capillary action, the phenomenon that causes water to rise in a narrow space also holds it in place, so while it costs no energy to raise the water, it does cost energy to extract it from the narrow space, and nature is in balance.  Perpetual motion machines based on capillary action have been attempted, but with no luck.
...

Right. And it must be emphasized that it is the same phenomenon of capillary action that both raises the water and prevents the water from escaping the tube for a full cycle. So it is not a surprise here that "nature is in balance".

...
When the first production Hidro is sold and is producing energy, I will study how it works, not until then.

I think also it is the best method O0. I'll do the same.

   
Group: Guest
Lawrence:

Quote
Sorry that the formulae proposed by MH and team could not apply.  They are not rocket scientists and can be excused for lack of knowledge in that area.

I think that I'll wait for a working device too.

Meanwhile, in the day to day drama and trials and tribulations in the quest for free energy....

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5600-hidro-hydrodynamic-cycle-techn-2.html#post138584

Quote
Hi Roland and Lawrence/ALL

Yes as explained the replication details are not present, plus you need custom mechanical parts, Hidro are not stupid they are a business they dont give out replication details.So we are starting a non profit drive to acquire it and help educate about sustainable technologies,. this is practical especially since i have been there to tell you guys that you wont be able to replicate it . not my choice , however i see opportunity for Hidro to stop gas fracking, this is an important issue for us.

Ash

So what's the truth here?

In my opinion Kwok has played his cards right with respect to Ash (frankly not hard to do), and Ash is falling for it.  So Ash is "in play" for James Kwok.  James hopes that will eventually turn into a nice big fat certified check addressed to his company.

Don't give a single cent to Ash via Panacea or PayPal or whatever.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Talk about reviving a ghost!  There has been some recent "action" on the Hidro front and I sent a YouTube email to Ash's partner Andrew:

>>>

Hi Andrew,

I am going to assume that the "50 kilowatts output" is simply what was told to Ash by James Kwok and that was never tested or proved.

Think about that, seriously.  Where does the 50 kilowatt number come from?  How do you actually prove that?

I look at that tower and I can't possibly conceive that it can output 50 kilowatts.  Where is the load?   Where is the generator that is supposed to be connected to the tower to drive the load?  Perhaps James Kwok says that he doesn't have the mechanical gearbox and the generator to generate the electrical output but you are just going to have to take it for granted that the spinning shaft at the Hidro tower output can output 50 kilowatts if he had the gearbox and the generator and the load to connect up to it.  Hence he needs more "research funds" to "sponsor" his ongoing activities.

Well, don't believe James and it's time to start thinking about this in more detail.

What is 50 kilowatts?   That's a hell of a lot of power.   Supposing a bake element in a kitchen stove is 1.5 kilowatts.   That means you would have to set up about 33 bake elements outside in a cordoned off area so that you could safely dissipate 50 kilowatts and verify the output!

You know and I know and Ash knows that has never been done!

That tower probably produces less than a kilowatt of power, and that power comes from a tank of compressed air and nowhere else.

When you look at that tower there is a compressed air tank that is pumping air into the moveable buoys at the bottom of the tower so they can float up to the top.  In the process of floating to the top they are connected to some sort of belt system that ultimately turns a shaft and I will assume that there is no mechanical load on that shaft when the system is demoed!  James Kwok points to that turning shaft and claims it can drive a gearbox and a generator and a load (which he doesn't have) to output 50 kilowatts of electrical power and he is simply lying.

So, yes, one or two compressed air tanks can make the buoys go up and down in the Hidro tower for an hour or more and create the illusion of a free energy device that produces 50 kilowatts.

The illusion is broken the moment you use your critical thinking skills and start to think about how much power 50 kilowatts really is and how you have never actually seen James Kwok show anything even remotely resembling a 50 kilowatt load connected to the Hidro tower.

I am being serious here, this whole thing is a con job.   Demand to see some proof of the 50 kilowatt generating capacity from James Kwok.  Go see the tower and have a stethoscope hidden in your briefcase.  When the tower is running take out the stethoscope and put it up against all of the accessible components in the tower and listen for valves opening and closing and listen for the hissing sound of flowing compressed air.  Try to localize the source of the hissing and bust James Kwok!

Now that would be sweet if you turned the tables on James and exposed him for the con artist that he really is.

I will repeat myself; no matter what James Kwok tells you or shows you under NDA, do your due diligence and demand proof from James that the demo unit can output 50 kilowatts.  Go to the site armed with your stethoscope and find that source of compressed air and bust him.

That will be a sobering moment, and good moment, for the two of you.

MileHigh
   

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Buy me some coffee
If he's using compressed air to generate 50kw you would probably kill yourself tripping over the compressor and storage tank  :o
   
Group: Guest
Depending on how much additional air is required for a cycle of operation, small high pressure air tanks are available ...

http://www.deep-six.com/textbook%20photos/tank%20data.jpg

for a example ... 120 CuFt of air @ 3500PSI in a tank 7 1/4" dia  x  28 5/8" long is a size that could be possibly hidden and used in short runs of operation for demo purposes


Fuzzy
  :)

P.S. The "old school" mechanics method of using a stethoscope to hear sounds inside of objects you cant see in, is a really good idea and very effective.   ;)
   
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