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OverUnity Research > General - Free Energy Related > Miscellaneous Discussions (Moderator: Allcanadian) > It's getting hotter out there, evaporative cooling is the solution.
2024-11-28, 08:38:22
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Author Topic: It's getting hotter out there, evaporative cooling is the solution.  (Read 1245 times)
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img  Allcanadian
It's getting hotter out there, evaporative cooling is the solution. « on: 2024-07-27, 17:42:09 »
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Thought I would start a thread on the work of Viktor Schauberger and evaporative cooling considering we are consistently breaking heat records year after year.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-05/world-the-hottest-on-record-12-months-in-a-row/103904150
https://theconversation.com/extreme-heat-is-breaking-global-records-why-this-isnt-just-summer-and-what-climate-change-has-to-do-with-it-234249

Here is a link to basic evaporative cooling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler

The next generation cooler is indirect often based on the Maisotsenko or M-cycle.
https://www.dovepress.com/maisotsenko-cycle-technology-overview-and-energy-saving-potential-in-c-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-EECT
This technology is superior to conventional AC but it depends on the outside air relative humidity.

I like this DIY guy and he seems to have the right idea.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BurningMan/comments/id4v2e/overchill_v2_a_novel_2stage_indirect_evaporative/

If we look at this water based technology we can see the efficiency/COP and cooling power is increasing year after year. Where conventional AC requires a 2000w input an evaporative cooler can do the same job using only 200w in drier climates. Here we need to remember this system does not presently work in every climate all the time. As such I'm using this technology as an add on to my AC and whole house fan.

So if it's hot and dry I can run an evaporative cooler (COP 10 to 40). If it's hot and humid I run my AC (COP 2 to 4). Once the outdoor temperature is near my indoor set point a whole house fan (300w) sucks cool air from outside through the windows into my house then pushes it into my attic. The whole house fan is brilliant reducing cooling costs by up to 90% because it cools my house and removes all the hot air in my attic space reducing any residual/radiant heat. As such my average cooling bill is around 85% lower than conventional AC.

The next level I'm presently working on would reduce the electrical input to an evaporative cooler to zero ie. Viktor Schauberger. In fact, part of the premise has already been proven, https://www.slashgear.com/1600744/what-is-evaporation-engine-how-does-it-work/

AC








---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  chief kolbacict
Re: It's getting hotter out there, evaporative cooling is the solution. « Reply #1 on: 2024-07-27, 19:53:13 »

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And this is what I have. Just cold underground water.
   
img  Thaelin
Re: It's getting hotter out there, evaporative cooling is the solution. « Reply #2 on: 2024-07-28, 08:10:23 »
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Not dissing you here but it also raises the humidity of the air. That in an enclosed area makes for a mold factory. If you are running tubes through the water and then fan across for the room, that is different completely.
thay
   
img  chief kolbacict
Re: It's getting hotter out there, evaporative cooling is the solution. « Reply #3 on: 2024-07-28, 12:56:16 »

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Quote from: Thaelin on 2024-07-28, 08:10:23
Not dissing you here but it also raises the humidity of the air. That in an enclosed area makes for a mold factory. If you are running tubes through the water and then fan across for the room, that is different completely.
thay
My device don't raise the humidity of the air.  At water temperatures below 10 C, condensation even forms.  :)
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: It's getting hotter out there, evaporative cooling is the solution. « Reply #4 on: 2024-07-28, 17:25:57 »
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https://www.technologyreview.com/2015/06/16/167624/scientists-capture-the-energy-of-evaporation-to-drive-tiny-engines/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj2kuZm-aCA&t=8s
Renewable Energy from Evaporating Water

I like the evaporative engine concept because it proves the critics wrong on several levels.
1)An overbalanced wheel powered by environmental energy can work in the right context.
2)Maxwell's Demon can work in reality. The mold spore mechanical arms on the evaporative engine accept and reject energy from the environment doing work in the process.
3)An engine can run on water.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the evaporative engine concept could be taken magnitudes further. Simply imagine billions of mold spore arms bound in a 3D structure as big as your leg. As the inventors claimed, the movement is very similar to how a muscle moves. Now were talking about kilowatts of power from a change in humidity.

I think it's comical, all these clowns claiming we cannot utilize ambient energy to perform useful work and yet there it is. It is literally an engine that runs on water.

AC



---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  e2matrix
Re: It's getting hotter out there, evaporative cooling is the solution. « Reply #5 on: 2024-07-28, 20:22:05 »
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Quote from: Thaelin on 2024-07-28, 08:10:23
Not dissing you here but it also raises the humidity of the air. That in an enclosed area makes for a mold factory. If you are running tubes through the water and then fan across for the room, that is different completely.
thay

Agree.  I only had an evap cooler for a couple years in one place and that problem wasn't the only issue.  It also caused carpeting in the house to wrinkle up.  The last house I built I put a whole lot of extra insulation in the attics and wind turbines on the roof to vent heat out.  Also 2x6 walls and it has made a big difference here in keeping things cool while using less air conditioning.  I've talked with people with much smaller homes who have triple the electric bill I have.   
   
img  polyrhythm
Re: It's getting hotter out there, evaporative cooling is the solution. « Reply #6 on: 2024-07-29, 11:28:26 »
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Cool thread AC, I have been nerding out on Schauberger lately. Evaporative cooling is definitely a very important energy source. Considering that evaporative cooling is effectively the driver of cyclones which reach no doubt can reach MW/m2 power densities, I think it is a technology worth trying to replicate. Even if you could get 1000th of that power density a 1kW generator would be grand for something that converts ambient heat to kinetic energy.

I think a cyclone is a good example of the principle of free energy laid out by Tesla in one of his most important but least read writings "Problems of Increasing Human Energy".

PS: I have a feeling some kind of similar thing is going on in the STEAP thread with latent charge taking the place of latent heat.
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: It's getting hotter out there, evaporative cooling is the solution. « Reply #7 on: 2024-07-29, 17:32:33 »
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Polyrhythm
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Cool thread AC, I have been nerding out on Schauberger lately. Evaporative cooling is definitely a very important energy source. Considering that evaporative cooling is effectively the driver of cyclones which reach no doubt can reach MW/m2 power densities, I think it is a technology worth trying to replicate. Even if you could get 1000th of that power density a 1kW generator would be grand for something that converts ambient heat to kinetic energy.

I found most other FE inventors work easy compared to Schauberger. It's just very non-intuitive because he basically made up his own science and terminology.

Here is an example of Schaubergers work I proved, we consider a three blade fan to be the most efficient air mover we know of. Now turn on a 3 blade fan for one second, measure the energy input and then measure how much energy reaches the other side of a room. Next build a air vortex cannon, measure the energy input and then measure how much energy reaches the other side of a room.

We find literally no energy from the fan reached the other side of the room where most of the energy from the vortex cannon did. This is true because the fan is a drag based device which dissipates the majority of the energy input as turbulence.

Here is a good link, https://medium.com/intuition/the-physics-of-vortex-cannons-136d89844626

So how does the air vortex torus move more air further than a fan?. In the picture below the the torus is considered a stand alone laminar flow structure. The torus pulls the oncoming ambient air outward around the torus sides then pulls the air back inward behind itself maintaining a laminar flow. It doesn't try to push through the ambient air creating drag rising by the cube of it's velocity which is amateur it forces the air around itself as a smooth laminar flow.

In effect Schaubergers secret was understanding that the natural world works the way it does because it tends to seek the path of least resistance. The path of least resistance is always the most efficient path and contrary to popular belief it never follows a straight line. Ergo, there are no straight lines in nature for a reason.

I like the guys in this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj2kuZm-aCA&t=8s , Renewable Energy from Evaporating Water
There young guys, really smart, curious, motivated, innovative and for them nothing is written in stone. This is the kind of attitude which is going to change the world not closed minded people who have run out of options. This curious and innovative kind of attitude is what I see in Viktor Schaubergers work.

AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: It's getting hotter out there, evaporative cooling is the solution. « Reply #8 on: 2024-07-31, 16:38:16 »
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Is the evaporative cooler a lesson in FE?.

A typical air conditioner runs around COP 4 this falling to COP 2 as the outdoor air temperature rises. Ergo, the more cooling we need the less efficient the system becomes. The air conditioner is expensive, has many moving parts and often uses toxic refrigerants. Many consider this the norm and claim we can do no better.

However I was just reading a science paper testing an indirect evaporative cooler (M-cycle) running at COP>30 at an outdoor air temperature of 43C. In this system the COP rises with the outdoor air temperature. The more cooling we need the more efficient the system becomes opposite to conventional AC. Yet many still hold the false belief that the more cooling we need the more energy is required and the COP must fall.

So I asked ChatGPT a question, if an evaporative cooler required no electrical input is the COP unlimited?. The answer was yes and confirmed what I already knew from a thought experiment. Suppose we had a evaporator cooling pad on a pond which wicked up water and evaporated it as the wind blew through it cooling the air. Since the electrical input is zero and the COP= Cooling Effect (Q)​ / Electrical Power Input (W) the COP would be infinite. Which is just a fancy way of saying nature provides the energy to drive the system not us.

Here we can make a basic observation, the COP can have almost any value based on how much environmental energy is added to the system. It's not something from nothing or a violation of the conservation of energy.

The evaporative engine also adds another variable to the equation. Suppose the output drove a fan which increased the air flow thus rate of evaporation which increased the output. The system would reach a point of equilibrium where the air flow/evaporation balances. However this has little to do with the fact the exhaust from the wet side is cooled air and it would literally become a self-acting evaporative cooler. 

So it would seem self-acting high COP devices are not impossible after all. There not even all that difficult once we understand the concept at work. I mean, why settle for a marginal COP 2 when we could be running COP 80?.

AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  e2matrix
Re: It's getting hotter out there, evaporative cooling is the solution. « Reply #9 on: 2024-08-01, 20:59:30 »
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Schauberger has always been an interest as well as the concept of a torus and votexes.   All good things to study.  I've often wondered if there is something from his concepts that can be applied to the electron or a circuit based on those ideas.   And evaporative cooling is good except in the real world home it has some slight drawbacks as mentioned.  However if you don't have wall to wall carpet and can deal with the potential mold issue then it can be an energy saving option.
   
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