Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?.

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2024-11-28, 17:51:36
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Author Topic: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. (Read 8982 times)

TinMan	Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « on: 2015-05-28, 16:23:11 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	I built one of these many years ago-->the bearing motor. I am going to build another one,so as i can work out once and for all how it works. Common theory is that the balls heat up,and cause an elliptical shape,and this is what makes it spin. But i would think that this elliptical distorsion of the balls in the bearing race would cause an equal force in both directions $:-\$ . I believe there is some sort of magnetic field spin being created,and the direction of spin is determined by the starting spin direction. I remember years ago when i use to install new dairy's,that we use to use an electric motor that would also spin in the direction you spun it in-->how would that work. These were on the vacuum pump,and when you wanted pressure to blow the vacuum lines out,you just stopped the motor(switched it off),gave it a quick spin in the direction you wanted it to spin in,and switched back on the power. This was over 20 years ago now,and i haven't seen any other electric motors that could do this. It was a German brand motor. Anyway,i will throw a setup together tomorrow,and see how we go. The plan is to keep the bearings cool,so I'm thinking of putting them in a water box,so as the bottom of the bearing is just under water. But the first thing I'm going to do when it's up and running,is place a compass near the bearings,and see if i can detect a magnetic field. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7LOF1GZpdo --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinselKoala	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #1 on: 2015-05-28, 17:27:44 »
Group: Guest	I've played with this "marinov bearing motor" myself too, and I also find the conventional explanation hard to believe. The things can spin very fast indeed if you can supply the current (like 100 amps isn't unusual, from a car battery... the thing is essentially a dead short) and it doesn't weld itself solid. I'll be interested in seeing how your testing goes. As far as motors reversing direction.... have you ever noticed the direction that your microwave oven's turntable motor turns? Ours goes one way sometimes, and the other way other times. This motor is a little AC thing with a reduction gearbox on it.

TinMan	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #2 on: 2015-05-28, 17:36:42 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015-05-28, 17:27:44 I've played with this "marinov bearing motor" myself too, and I also find the conventional explanation hard to believe. The things can spin very fast indeed if you can supply the current (like 100 amps isn't unusual, from a car battery... the thing is essentially a dead short) and it doesn't weld itself solid. I'll be interested in seeing how your testing goes. As far as motors reversing direction.... have you ever noticed the direction that your microwave oven's turntable motor turns? Ours goes one way sometimes, and the other way other times. This motor is a little AC thing with a reduction gearbox on it. Well i know there would have to be a preaty good magnetic field around the shaft that is carrying all that current,and i suspect a strong magnetic field from the 4 single turn coils(the bearing races). So these fields would be at right angles to the field of the shaft?. Then i wounder what kind of magnetic field the balls them self would have. I actually didnt think about the little microwave oven turntable motor,and your right,it dose spin in opposite directions some times. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Grumage	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #3 on: 2015-05-28, 18:28:05 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2765	Dear Tinman. I have had a lot to do with electric motors over the years and you can still send any single phase motor in either direction by disconnecting the start cap and giving it a kick in the desired direction. I am sure this subject was broached upon last year and if I remember correctly WaveWatcher mentioned the fact that this phenomenon can be seen, even without bearings. He mentioned a heavy Iron rod fitted with Copper points and pivoted in a tiny hole. Dear TinselKoala. The motors fitted to microwave oven platter drives are of a Synchronous design, being small they can self start, but can go either way. For the older mains driven clocks they had a little hairspring so if the motor did go backwards the spring would wind up and then send it forward. God forbid we could go back in time !! Cheers Grum. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

T-1000	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #4 on: 2015-05-28, 20:20:07 »
Sr. Member Posts: 375	Hi all, It all comes back to Faraday disk motor - http://www.juliantrubin.com/bigten/electric_motor_generator.html Also if you extensive research on Bruce Depalma achievements, that is part of story as well - http://www.classicenergyvideos.com/depalmanmachine3.wmv (it is direct link to video file) Cheers!

TinMan	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #5 on: 2015-05-29, 11:48:07 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	here is the first run with the bearing motor. It dosnt seem to go to well at all on 30 amp's I have a feeling that it is the aluminum pully upsetting the magnetic fields some how I also found it odd that the pully got warmer than the bearing housings $:-\$ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkrJ_uI9nWs --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinselKoala	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #6 on: 2015-05-29, 13:16:08 »
Group: Guest	You need more current! 30 amps is just not enough for real action. 100 amps! Or more! Marinov used to demonstrate this effect with a car battery and heavy cables, like jump cables. It's not a homopolar motor, either. This is shown by several features: The bearing motor needs a little starting spin to start, will spin either way equally, and will spin in the direction it was started in, no matter the direction of the current. Also a symmetrical one made with two bearings and fed by the shafts, so that the current enters the inner race of one bearing, goes thru the balls to the outer race, and then over to the next bearing's outer race, through its balls to the inner race and then out the second shaft, behaves the same way: it needs a little push to start, and it spins in either direction according to how it was started, regardless of current direction. TinMan's test unit is another version of the symmetrical type: current goes through the outer race of one bearing, thru its balls to the inner race, then thru the common shaft to the inner race of the second bearing, thru its balls to the outer race and the current return. Am I right that TinMan is using AC for this test? I think usually these things are driven by DC; it would be interesting to compare the spin speed using 30 amps DC with the 30 amps AC. But to really see what it's capable of.... get out the old car battery and try sending some "real" current through it !!

TinMan	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #7 on: 2015-05-29, 13:30:30 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015-05-29, 13:16:08 You need more current! 30 amps is just not enough for real action. 100 amps! Or more! Marinov used to demonstrate this effect with a car battery and heavy cables, like jump cables. It's not a homopolar motor, either. This is shown by several features: The bearing motor needs a little starting spin to start, will spin either way equally, and will spin in the direction it was started in, no matter the direction of the current. Also a symmetrical one made with two bearings and fed by the shafts, so that the current enters the inner race of one bearing, goes thru the balls to the outer race, and then over to the next bearing's outer race, through its balls to the inner race and then out the second shaft, behaves the same way: it needs a little push to start, and it spins in either direction according to how it was started, regardless of current direction. TinMan's test unit is another version of the symmetrical type: current goes through the outer race of one bearing, thru its balls to the inner race, then thru the common shaft to the inner race of the second bearing, thru its balls to the outer race and the current return. Am I right that TinMan is using AC for this test? I think usually these things are driven by DC; it would be interesting to compare the spin speed using 30 amps DC with the 30 amps AC. But to really see what it's capable of.... get out the old car battery and try sending some "real" current through it !! TK,watch the video i posted the link to in my first post. He is using AC,and says in the comments around 15 to 20 amps at 6 volts His motor really accelerates fast,and i even hear some squealing going on there at one point,almost like the shaft is spinning on the bearings?. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinselKoala	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #8 on: 2015-05-29, 13:59:27 »
Group: Guest	I wonder if he actually measured the current accurately. He appears to be using a simple step-down transformer from the mains, so there could be a lot more current than that available. That's a nice demo build though. The heavy flywheel probably helps a lot; it may help to keep the bearing balls in contact with the races.

TinMan	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #9 on: 2015-05-29, 14:43:04 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	I have built a low voltage high current transformer out of an old MOT. We do a current test as well lol--enjoy the !fire! works . I have also found something very interesting,that i will explain in the next video. i think this find may hold some answers . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=916Iy1sZCrE --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #10 on: 2015-05-29, 15:56:46 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Ok,this video shows an interesting find. Oh-P.S TK,it seems that there is a limit to the current before the motor actually starts to slow down,and not work at all. The one in the video with the choke in there,it runs fine,and draws about 680 watts from my mains. When i remove the choke,we draw about 1500 watts from the mains,and the motor stop's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIP_ip0iUjs --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #11 on: 2015-05-31, 05:48:05 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	The video below is the spin direction test. So here we have a situation where it dosnt matter if we use an AC or DC current,the motor will spin in what ever direction we set it going in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_i-HjIx6VM --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

T-1000	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #12 on: 2015-05-31, 14:40:02 »
Sr. Member Posts: 375	Quote from: TinMan on 2015-05-31, 05:48:05 The video below is the spin direction test. So here we have a situation where it dosnt matter if we use an AC or DC current,the motor will spin in what ever direction we set it going in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_i-HjIx6VM One thing you can do there, - try to align it to Earth North/South crossing the motor then realign it to East/West and see if there is any difference in spin speed. Cheers!

TinselKoala	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #13 on: 2015-05-31, 15:07:10 »
Group: Guest	I think the most significant finding so far is that the motor won't run with the metal ball-shields in place. Since the shields don't touch the inner axle at all they probably aren't "shorting" the balls, so it's hard for me to explain why they would prevent the motor from turning. What effect could these shields have on the ball-heating that is the common explanation of the operation of the motor? None, I would guess. The next most significant finding from TinMan's work is that the motor slows when given more AC current. I wonder if that's true too when DC is used. In my own experiments from the old ISSO days 15 years ago, and more recently at another lab, I thought that the more DC current, the better it would spin. But there must be some point where there is so much current and heating that the bearing either welds itself up, or perhaps the balls just get too hot and can't do whatever they are doing according to the conventional explanation to make it turn. (I've had some success removing shields by using a pin to pry out the nearly-invisible retainer clip that holds them to the outer race. Once that thin expanding-circlip thing is removed from its groove, the shields will usually pop right out without distortion, and can even be re-installed. As long as the clip doesn't fly off and get lost, that is ! )

TinMan	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #14 on: 2015-05-31, 15:19:34 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015-05-31, 15:07:10 I think the most significant finding so far is that the motor won't run with the metal ball-shields in place. Since the shields don't touch the inner axle at all they probably aren't "shorting" the balls, so it's hard for me to explain why they would prevent the motor from turning. What effect could these shields have on the ball-heating that is the common explanation of the operation of the motor? None, I would guess. The next most significant finding from TinMan's work is that the motor slows when given more AC current. I wonder if that's true too when DC is used. In my own experiments from the old ISSO days 15 years ago, and more recently at another lab, I thought that the more DC current, the better it would spin. But there must be some point where there is so much current and heating that the bearing either welds itself up, or perhaps the balls just get too hot and can't do whatever they are doing according to the conventional explanation to make it turn. (I've had some success removing shields by using a pin to pry out the nearly-invisible retainer clip that holds them to the outer race. Once that thin expanding-circlip thing is removed from its groove, the shields will usually pop right out without distortion, and can even be re-installed. As long as the clip doesn't fly off and get lost, that is ! ) If there is indeed some sort of magnetic field causing the motoring effect in the bearings,then these steel shields would distort or reshape these magnetic fields-->kind of like a magnetic field short. One of the shields popped out nice and clean/straight,and i was able to clip it back into place. With just the one shield in there,the motor would continue to rotate-but only at the speed it was going when spun before startup. It wouldnt pick up speed.Upon removing the shield,and trying the motor again,it would pick up speed as seen in all the other video's. I am now trying to find some bearings with the rubber seals in them,but worn so as there is no drag on the bearings. If i find some in my junk collection,i will give them a try,and report my findings. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Smudge	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #15 on: 2015-06-02, 16:14:54 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1940	For what it's worth here is a theory for the ball-bearing motor based upon angular momentum transport by spin-polarized electrons. I would be interested to know if any work has been done that further supports the theory. Enjoy Smudge ------------------------ Theory for the ball bearing motor.pdf (72.2 kB - downloaded 292 times.)

TinMan	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #16 on: 2015-06-02, 18:23:41 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: Smudge on 2015-06-02, 16:14:54 For what it's worth here is a theory for the ball-bearing motor based upon angular momentum transport by spin-polarized electrons. I would be interested to know if any work has been done that further supports the theory. Enjoy Smudge Well that is the best explanation i have seen yet. So we have a case of the balls becoming electron rich on one side(the leading edge),and electron negative on the trailing edge?. Electrons do travel quite slow-only milimeters an hour. If the balls were copper insted of hard steel,would there be more force or less?. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Smudge	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #17 on: 2015-06-02, 19:28:20 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1940	Quote from: TinMan on 2015-06-02, 18:23:41 Well that is the best explanation i have seen yet. So we have a case of the balls becoming electron rich on one side(the leading edge),and electron negative on the trailing edge?. Electrons do travel quite slow-only milimeters an hour. If the balls were copper insted of hard steel,would there be more force or less?. It's not a case of being electron rich on one side and electron poor on the other. It is the fact that on one side the spin is in the opposite direction to the other. And the leading edge side brings its electrons to the take-off point while the trailing edge side doesn't, so the take off electrons are now rich in that spin direction. If the balls were copper or brass or any other non-ferromagnetic conductor there is no electron spin-polarization so the thing wouldn't work at all, there would be no force. You can get some idea of the maximum torque possible from the current I as Torque=6.58x10^-16*I Newton-meters. (There is a typo in my paper where Planck's constant is wrong, it should be 1.0545x10^-34. I blame my poor eyesight ) That is a tiny torque even with TK's 100 amps, so the theory could be flawed. Smudge

TinMan	Re: Bearing motor-can we be the first to work it out?. « Reply #18 on: 2015-06-04, 10:38:17 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Quote from: Smudge on 2015-06-02, 19:28:20 It's not a case of being electron rich on one side and electron poor on the other. It is the fact that on one side the spin is in the opposite direction to the other. And the leading edge side brings its electrons to the take-off point while the trailing edge side doesn't, so the take off electrons are now rich in that spin direction. If the balls were copper or brass or any other non-ferromagnetic conductor there is no electron spin-polarization so the thing wouldn't work at all, there would be no force. You can get some idea of the maximum torque possible from the current I as Torque=6.58x10^-16*I Newton-meters. (There is a typo in my paper where Planck's constant is wrong, it should be 1.0545x10^-34. I blame my poor eyesight ) That is a tiny torque even with TK's 100 amps, so the theory could be flawed. Smudge Thanks for clearing that up smudge. In regards to torque--> there seem'd to be quite a bit of torque in that motor that i posted the link to in the opening post. He stated in the comments that he was using around 15 to 20 amp's,and the transformer was a 6 volt output. In my case,if i remove the choke in the circuit so as more current can flow,the thing hardly spins at all,and wont pick up speed???. So at 650 watt input,it runs quite well,and at 1580 watt input,it dosnt go so good. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

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