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OverUnity Research > Electrical / Electronic Devices > Inductive Kickback Circuits > What is going on in Min2oly's "Radiant Energy 101" clip?
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Author Topic: What is going on in Min2oly's "Radiant Energy 101" clip?  (Read 67543 times)
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img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: What is going on in Min2oly's "Radiant Energy 101" clip? « Reply #75 on: 2012-02-19, 11:22:12 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: MileHigh on 2012-02-19, 06:09:19
Gibbs:

For your answer to 1.1, I forgot to mention you set the capacitor voltage to 12.6 volts to be the same as the charging battery voltage.  That is a given.  So although what you say is correct, I am looking for another answer.

For 1.2, you are in the right area, but one more time, you are not giving the proper answer.

For 2, 3 and 4 no partial credit, sorry!



MileHigh

Damn! This is the kind of result I get. Actually, this one is not too bad. lol

MH,

When I read about people doing Bedini motor setup, they said they can recover 80- 98%.  Some even claims that they have >100%.  Is this even possible?  What is the highest they can go if we ignore all losses?  Thanks
   
img  MileHigh
Re: What is going on in Min2oly's "Radiant Energy 101" clip? « Reply #76 on: 2012-02-20, 03:11:28 »
Group: Guest
Gibbs:

Quote
When I read about people doing Bedini motor setup, they said they can recover 80- 98%.  Some even claims that they have >100%.  Is this even possible?  What is the highest they can go if we ignore all losses?

Sorry, this is not a sensible question.

The real question in this:  If I put energy into my Bedini motor with a source battery and charge up a charging battery, how much of the source battery energy can I get back from the charging battery?

The answer is probably about 20%.  This might seem shocking but the problem is that nobody does their battery measurements properly.  They have to measure the energy in their batteries and they never do it.

Here is the explanation, and we will use 10,000 Joules of energy for illustrative purposes.

1.  Source battery puts 10,000 Joules of energy into the Bedini motor.
2.  7,000 Joules of energy lost as heat, 3000 Joules of energy go into the charging battery.
3.  Assume charging efficiency of charging battery is 0.8 ->  2400 Joules become chemical energy inside battery and 600 Joules lost as heat.
3.  Assume discharging efficiency of charging battery is 0.8 ->  1920 Joules of energy available to drive an electrical load and 480 Joules lost as heat.

Efficiency is 1920/10,000 x 100 = 19.2% efficiency.

These are perfectly reasonable numbers.  A typical Bedini enthusiast would be shocked to hear this and might find it very offensive.  The problem is that they have never made the proper measurements.  I have observed enough Bedini clips to know with a high deal of confidence that a typical Bedini motor is only 30% efficient.  I am not a battery expert, but I believe that the charging and discharging efficiencies that I am quoting for a lead-acid battery are reasonable.

All the talk about the "radiant spike" getting the battery to "resonate" and "get extra energy from the environment" is simply junk.

Any Bedini motor enthusiast can make the measurement to determine the efficiency of the motor in step 2 above, it's clearly explained in this thread.  Then once they have that they have to make proper battery energy measurements to determine the combined (charging + discharging) efficiency of the charging battery.  I am estimating the combined efficiency for a typical lead-acid battery would be about ( 0.8 x 0.8 ) = 0.64.  Unfortunately, it's highly unlikely these measurements will ever be done.

MileHigh
   
img  GibbsHelmholtz
Re: What is going on in Min2oly's "Radiant Energy 101" clip? « Reply #77 on: 2012-02-20, 05:32:02 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: MileHigh on 2012-02-20, 03:11:28
Gibbs:

Sorry, this is not a sensible question.

The real question in this:  If I put energy into my Bedini motor with a source battery and charge up a charging battery, how much of the source battery energy can I get back from the charging battery?

The answer is probably about 20%.  This might seem shocking but the problem is that nobody does their battery measurements properly.  They have to measure the energy in their batteries and they never do it.

Here is the explanation, and we will use 10,000 Joules of energy for illustrative purposes.

1.  Source battery puts 10,000 Joules of energy into the Bedini motor.
2.  7,000 Joules of energy lost as heat, 3000 Joules of energy go into the charging battery.
3.  Assume charging efficiency of charging battery is 0.8 ->  2400 Joules become chemical energy inside battery and 600 Joules lost as heat.
3.  Assume discharging efficiency of charging battery is 0.8 ->  1920 Joules of energy available to drive an electrical load and 480 Joules lost as heat.

Efficiency is 1920/10,000 x 100 = 19.2% efficiency.

These are perfectly reasonable numbers.  A typical Bedini enthusiast would be shocked to hear this and might find it very offensive.  The problem is that they have never made the proper measurements.  I have observed enough Bedini clips to know with a high deal of confidence that a typical Bedini motor is only 30% efficient.  I am not a battery expert, but I believe that the charging and discharging efficiencies that I am quoting for a lead-acid battery are reasonable.

All the talk about the "radiant spike" getting the battery to "resonate" and "get extra energy from the environment" is simply junk.

Any Bedini motor enthusiast can make the measurement to determine the efficiency of the motor in step 2 above, it's clearly explained in this thread.  Then once they have that they have to make proper battery energy measurements to determine the combined (charging + discharging) efficiency of the charging battery.  I am estimating the combined efficiency for a typical lead-acid battery would be about ( 0.8 x 0.8 ) = 0.64.  Unfortunately, it's highly unlikely these measurements will ever be done.

MileHigh

That's what I thought too MH.  So somewhere in the inductor transient explanation you gave, the wheel magnet coming in and take energy.  I've never heard the motor group explain how it effect the recovery process.   
   
img  MileHigh
Re: What is going on in Min2oly's "Radiant Energy 101" clip? « Reply #78 on: 2012-03-08, 02:40:33 »
Group: Guest
Interesting how Min2oly is now trying to equate a bloch wall and a coil.  Note the title of his new clip, "Bloch Wall compression and extraction of free energy."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC6ylSNvtwc[/youtube]

Of course there no bloch wall associated with a coil or for a standard bar magnet.  In the above clip Min2oly is basically doing the same thing that he did in his previous clip.  There is one somewhat helpful comment on his YouTube clip and the rest are not helping him at all.

About 1 1/2 years ago I made a single technical comment on one of Min2oly's clips and he instantly banned me.

If somebody could do me the favour of pointing Min2oly to this thread that would be appreciated.  I can't, my hands are tied.

MileHigh
   
img  giantkiller
Re: What is going on in Min2oly's "Radiant Energy 101" clip? « Reply #79 on: 2012-03-08, 04:53:39 »

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1593
Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
So what. Are you your brother's keeper?

He uses a dvm as a counter and believes it. Even though the meter is not designed for the fast connections.

Don't correct him. Let him babble. I cant even listen to the daytime soap opera music in the background. He has been watching too many Bela Lugosi movies. >:-)


---------------------------
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/
   
img  muDped
Re: What is going on in Min2oly's "Radiant Energy 101" clip? « Reply #80 on: 2012-03-08, 05:55:31 »

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3055
The vocabulary and the technical terminology
which Min2Oly speaks in his video reveals
much.

His "education" is just beginning and at this
stage most of what he's "learned" is from
his internet peers.

Hopefully he'll one day soon delve into the
"books" and do some real research and study.
Then he'll learn the correct terminology and
be able to speak with credible knowledge as
he explains what is really taking place in his
demonstration.

The word of mouth (or word of forum) errors
which are handed down from one person to
the next while blindly being accepted as "fact" are
truly astonishing.

The Art of Study is seemingly becoming a lost
skill as so few of the forum experimenters actually
conduct any meaningful research on their own.

It is yet unknown as to why this is; they are either
incapable, insufficiently motivated, or lack the ability
to read and comprehend well.

Perhaps it's a result of the "dumbing down"
which education American Style has become.

But, then again, it's not just in America is it?

The "Bedini" threads at Energetic Forum are a
convincing example of the blind leading the blind...


 


---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
img  Groundloop
Re: What is going on in Min2oly's "Radiant Energy 101" clip? « Reply #81 on: 2012-03-08, 06:33:26 »
Sr. Member
****

Posts: 336
   
img  MileHigh
Re: What is going on in Min2oly's "Radiant Energy 101" clip? « Reply #82 on: 2012-03-08, 06:59:18 »
Group: Guest
Giantkiller:

What's wrong with trying to help someone learn something?  I realize that it's not as simple as that, but still the fundamental point about wanting him to learn and understand is true.  It's might upset the apple cart and cause some consternation in certain circles.  The is a sweet rebut to that though.  The rebut is that's what certain circles think they are doing themselves and they are proud of it. So if that upsets the apple cart of the upsetters that want to upset the apple cart, you have kind of gone full circle.  I don't think the two Universes will annihilate each other if a connection is made between the two like in that old Star Trek episode.

But, it will take some courage on the part of somebody to tell him and point him to this thread.  I know from direct experience that the peer group pressure in the free energy realm among forty-something men is just as strong as it is among a bunch of overly intense girls in grade nine high school.

To quote Min2oly:

Quote
so this collapsing inductive spike is not CEMF either.

where does the spike come from?

what is the conventional law that explains it?

I'm being very sincere with my question.

Thanks,

Patrick

The answers to his questions are in this thread.

Dumped:  Certainly we share some common ground with respect to this subject matter.

I would be nice to see the truth make some inroads.  People on this forum that straddle "both sides of the divide" that know Patrick can decide if they want to do it or not.

MileHigh
   
img  MileHigh
Re: What is going on in Min2oly's "Radiant Energy 101" clip? « Reply #83 on: 2012-03-08, 07:13:40 »
Group: Guest
What the hey....  Here is a big Easter Egg for Min2oly if he actually reads through this thread from start to end and gets it...

Call this the "Holy Grail" for all of the Bedini motor enthusiasts.  Oh my Gawd!!!!  All three cases explained for the amazing (voltage ???) spike that has fascinated generations.....

Finally, we reveal all.....  Time to expose the wizard and get back to Kansas.

So how does this discharging inductor explanation apply to a Bedini motor?

>>> Case 1: The charging battery is connected.

When the transistor switches on, the current flowing through the coil starts to increase.

When the transistor switches off, the current that was formerly flowing through the coil now continues flowing through the diode and into the charging battery. If the charging battery is in good condition but in a discharged state, there is just a mild bump up in the battery voltage. There is only a mild bump up in the battery voltage due to internal charging resistance of the battery. We know that the internal charging resistance of a healthy battery is quite low, hence a mild bump up in the voltage.

>>> Case 2: The charging battery is disconnected.

When the transistor switches on, the current flowing through the coil starts to increase.

When the transistor switches off, the current that was formerly flowing through the coil now continues flowing through the neon. The neon reacts to the incoming current flow by ionizing it's gas and doing a "controlled burn" where the voltage is at about 90 volts. This represents a fairly high power dissipation rate. For example if the current flowing through the coil is one ampere when the transistor switches off, and the breakdown voltage of the neon bulb is 90 volts, then the initial "burn power" is 90 watts. The energy stored in the coil is extinguished fairly quickly.

>>> Case 3: The charging battery is disconnected and there is no neon to protect the transistor.

When the transistor switches on, the current flowing through the coil starts to increase.

When the transistor switches off, the discharging coil literally forces current through the transistor as it is in the process of switching off. As the transistor is in the process of switching off, the effective collector-to-emitter resistance is constantly increasing. That's not stopping the coil by any means, and the more the transistor switches off, the higher the coil raises its voltage to maintain the current flow. This results in a very short and nasty complete discharge of the coil's stored energy inside the transistor itself. If the transistor switches off fast enough the coil will rip the innards of the transistor to shreds.

MileHigh
   
img  tinman
Re: What is going on in Min2oly's "Radiant Energy 101" clip? « Reply #84 on: 2013-01-21, 13:46:36 »
Group: Guest
Well the thread has been idle for 120 day;s,but as i am a new member and have only just read it-i would like to look at this topic again.
I must say ,i find nothing wrong with or how min2oly explained the event's he was seeing or showing.
I also think calling it the inductive kickback is wrong-if anything ,it should be called an inductive kick forward-as the current dosnt change direction.

So why is min2oly's description of calling it the radiant spike wrong?
And befor you get to excited-im in no way a ###### fan-infact,up the garden path come's to mind when that name is mentioned.

So,text book explination is -inductive kickback-cool
But what is radiant energy?
I think when you know the answer to this,you may find that min2oly was very close to being correct when he stated it was the radiant spike that is charging the cap.

20 to 30% back to the charge battery (if useing an SLA)may be the case,but with a resistive load on the output-70% return is no problem.
Oh and that dosnt take into account the mechanical rotation either-which most people tend to ignore.
   
img  Dave45
Re: What is going on in Min2oly's "Radiant Energy 101" clip? « Reply #85 on: 2014-03-31, 23:51:28 »
Group: Guest
Hey guy's you all know me, yea its that agitator  :D
The emoticons over here a great  ;D lol
Anyway thought I would take a stab at the topic  C.C
http://makeagif.com/i/oud1Sa
 
   
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