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2024-11-27, 23:43:56
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Author Topic: Smart meters (Read 4063 times)

Allcanadian	Smart meters « on: 2014-11-20, 18:01:17 »
Hero Member Posts: 2735	There has been talk of installing smart meters in my area and I wondered are they really smart? On the surface one might presume yes but the math tells a slightly different story. Now let's say a meter reader is paid $12/hr and reads one set of meters every five minutes which is very reasonable. That works out to $0.20/min or $1 per meter per month. The average smart meter install is near $3000 in which case comparitively speaking at a savings $1 per month it would take 250 years for the smart meter to actually save anything... which doesn't sound very smart does it?. Next we have the large networks which must be installed which are not included in the price or the highly paid people to operate these networks. Oh dear this is beginning to sound like a very expensive proposition and we haven't even included the liability issues because some smart meters have caused fires which burned many houses to the ground. So where is the savings?, well there isn't any savings however a smart meter does allow the utility to track your usage but more important the power you use during peak hours. Down the road I believe we can expect to be penalized for any power we use during times of peak load on top of all the unexpected network maintenance fee's. Personally I am going to refuse a smart meter installation because it serves no real purpose, it is expensive and there are liability and privacy issues which have not been addressed. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

Tommey Reed	Re: Smart meters « Reply #1 on: 2014-11-20, 18:16:19 »
Group: Guest	Hi AC, The only smart meter, is to get off the grid. Price for electricity has sky rocket and plans are to increase per kw next year. I have seen some of these electronics equipment today are eating up more energy then ever before, it's like getting poor gas mileage... Tom

muDped	Re: Smart meters « Reply #2 on: 2014-11-20, 19:05:21 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3055	After the old analog meter has been replaced with a new 'smart' meter there usually isn't any drastic change in usage billing. But, after some length of time the "Time of Use" billing scheme is invoked so that the charge per watt of electricity used is dependent upon the time of day. During high demand hours (normal business hours) the rates are highest. In the middle of the night the rates are lowest. At some point in time the 'smart' meter will be able to determine the appliance which is consuming the power. Luxury appliances will be billed at a higher rate than essential appliances, also in accordance with the time of use. Welcome to the Future. --------------------------- For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

Centraflow	Re: Smart meters « Reply #3 on: 2014-11-20, 19:15:01 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Here in Spain the minium without using a single watt of power is 200 euros a year, and guess who are the main share holders? yes you guessed right, the F-ing government ministers. So if you generate your own power you still have to pay 200€ if there is a cable to your door and no meter, this is called in another way "SUN TAX" for those with solar panels. regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

forest	Re: Smart meters « Reply #4 on: 2014-11-20, 20:43:40 »
Sr. Member Posts: 472	Mike That sounds impossible ! How can people agree with such opression ?

Allcanadian	Re: Smart meters « Reply #5 on: 2014-11-20, 22:36:17 »
Hero Member Posts: 2735	@muDped I would agree and we can be sure it is of no real benefit to us personally moreso a way to generate extra revenue for the utility providers. Thankfully my rural utility provider sent out a letter stating they are directly opposed to all smart meters and they will not be installed unless mandated by law. It is strange that in the country my taxes are 50% lower than in the city, my power and gas cheaper and all my water is of course free not to mention all the fresh air. Someday I may go back to the city...in a wooden box. I have been seeing a great deal of articles on the net in regards to the larger cities and the rampant corruption and collusion within the city councils. One has to ask is anyone in any level of government not getting an illegal kickback in this day and age?, it seems to be getting out of hand. I should also note I think Tommy has it right and hopefully next year I will make the big move to an acreage near the mountains. A cabin along the river close to many lakes, abundant resources, lot's of furry wildlife and fish to eat, micro-hydro power etc... off the grid for good. It's not a conspiracy end of world thing moreso a retire and learn to relax kind of thing. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

Centraflow	Re: Smart meters « Reply #6 on: 2014-11-21, 11:19:15 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Quote from: forest on 2014-11-20, 20:43:40 Mike That sounds impossible ! How can people agree with such oppression ? Not impossible, fact. With there being so much sun here in Spain, a lot of people installed panels not only for power but also water heating. The main share holders saw their dividends dropping, even though the generating company made 1500 millions last year and on another report, their excuse for putting up prices, they said they were loosing money. Now loosing money can be taken two ways, they are not making as much as before or they are not covering costs. Now most, 95%, of the people never look at dividend payouts so they would take it that the company was not covering costs Lets face it all the utilities make money, who hasn't played monopoly . and who would pay out dividends of 1,500,000,000€ to share holders if they were loosing money, something smells ripe here Nuf said regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

forest	Re: Smart meters « Reply #7 on: 2014-11-21, 11:46:39 »
Sr. Member Posts: 472	Mike It's impossible and stupid. What if people want to go offgrid completely without any connection to the grid power lines ? Do you state it is FORBIDDEN in Spain ? I think it is a case against Spain government for European Court of Human Rights. I wonder what is the relation of smart meters to the "smart grids" I heard about lately ? I know , here in Poland are also plans to create law allowing to use solar panels or wind turbines with "smart grid" , but it is assumed we get only 80% of returns for the power sent back to the grid, 20% covering the costs of maintaining transmission lines, which is stupid again. We had in the past many blackouts , some of them took almost a month, and all due to old transmission lines and a lot of heavy, wet snow breaking them by cummulated weight. The only solution is to allow people to be offgrid completely.

Centraflow	Re: Smart meters « Reply #8 on: 2014-11-21, 12:11:51 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Quote from: forest on 2014-11-21, 11:46:39 Mike It's impossible and stupid. What if people want to go offgrid completely without any connection to the grid power lines ? Do you state it is FORBIDDEN in Spain ? I think it is a case against Spain government for European Court of Human Rights. I wonder what is the relation of smart meters to the "smart grids" I heard about lately ? I know , here in Poland are also plans to create law allowing to use solar panels or wind turbines with "smart grid" , but it is assumed we get only 80% of returns for the power sent back to the grid, 20% covering the costs of maintaining transmission lines, which is stupid again. We had in the past many blackouts , some of them took almost a month, and all due to old transmission lines and a lot of heavy, wet snow breaking them by cummulated weight. The only solution is to allow people to be offgrid completely. You have to pay the tax, if not can be fined up to 6000€ (tax is equal to min charge of electric company without using any power regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Allcanadian	Re: Smart meters « Reply #9 on: 2014-11-21, 14:58:49 »
Hero Member Posts: 2735	@Mike In Canada most provinces have deregulated meaning power generators and line services must be separate by law. This means my service provider(line services) to the acreage can sell me power through a subcontract or I can buy power from any other provider I choose. For instance all I have to do is sign on to a renewable provider for a 2-3 cent/KW/hr premium and all my power will come from renewable sources. It seems like a good system in my opinion and if I didn't know better I would think someone was looking to the future where power generators are de-centralized. You know I was thinking, the politicians in Spain must be completely incompetent because here there are many companies which act as middle men between the power generators and the line services. Now why would they not let everyone generate their own power in Spain then pay them 75% rate so the government has no capital input in power generation. Then act as the broker for a fee between line services and the generators giving them a measure of control. Not only do they receive fees, royalties and taxes all down the line but they would have zero capital tied up in the system. They would probably make way more profit if they stopped thinking like a god damn caveman and it might also reduce energy costs which of course helps the economy again increasing tax revenue. AC « Last Edit: 2014-11-21, 16:14:40 by Allcanadian » --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

Centraflow	Re: Smart meters « Reply #10 on: 2014-11-21, 17:42:16 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2982	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2014-11-21, 14:58:49 @Mike In Canada most provinces have deregulated meaning power generators and line services must be separate by law. This means my service provider(line services) to the acreage can sell me power through a subcontract or I can buy power from any other provider I choose. For instance all I have to do is sign on to a renewable provider for a 2-3 cent/KW/hr premium and all my power will come from renewable sources. It seems like a good system in my opinion and if I didn't know better I would think someone was looking to the future where power generators are de-centralized. You know I was thinking, the politicians in Spain must be completely incompetent because here there are many companies which act as middle men between the power generators and the line services. Now why would they not let everyone generate their own power in Spain then pay them 75% rate so the government has no capital input in power generation. Then act as the broker for a fee between line services and the generators giving them a measure of control. Not only do they receive fees, royalties and taxes all down the line but they would have zero capital tied up in the system. They would probably make way more profit if they stopped thinking like a god damn caveman and it might also reduce energy costs which of course helps the economy again increasing tax revenue. AC AC Power generation and lines are separated, they are all independant companies and not government, I can buy power from other companies, but line distribution is only one company so that remains the same with which ever company you buy power. It is not the cost per kwhr that is the problem, the problem is the line charge, meter rental and 21% value added tax on that which all comes to 200€ a year before you buy your power. If you have solar panels then that 200€ is made as a tax if you do not have a contract with a power company, in other words you pay it whether you have a connection or not, just called a different name "tax or line costs", to all it is the same, 200€ a year I will dig out my last bill, you will see that it is 0Kw but the bill is nearly 36€ (2 monthly), so I make my free energy but it is not free because I have to pay this every 2 months regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

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